Aryan R1a = Turkic ?

[Proto-Shaman]

Anatole Klyosov's genetic research has shown that the R1a basehaplotype 13 25 15 10 12 12 10 13 11 31 -- 15 14 20 12 16 11 23 (with a common ancestor of 3400+/-505 ybp, the likely times for the Aryans coming to India) is reasonably close to the Bashkir Turkic and Kyrgyz Turkic base haplotypes (both R1a-L342.2). A common ancestor of all the reported Indian (Tamil) haplotypes and Bashkir and Kyrgyz haplotypes lived around 5000 ybp, which fits the timespan to R1a-L342.2 common ancestor.

source: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2012-12/1356088114

[Duke]

Anatole Klyosov's genetic research has shown that the R1a basehaplotype 13 25 15 10 12 12 10 13 11 31 -- 15 14 20 12 16 11 23 (with a common ancestor of 3400+/-505 ybp, the likely times for the Aryans coming to India) is reasonably close to the Bashkir Turkic and Kyrgyz Turkic base haplotypes (both R1a-L342.2). A common ancestor of all the reported Indian (Tamil) haplotypes and Bashkir and Kyrgyz haplotypes lived around 5000 ybp, which fits the timespan to R1a-L342.2 common ancestor.

source: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2012-12/1356088114


Turkics were basically mezticos, tribes or groups that were formed in clash betwen caucasoid and mongoloid, the reason you find R1a among turkics is the same why you would find R1b among Mexicans

[ButlerKing]

Turkics were basically mezticos, tribes or groups that were formed in clash betwen caucasoid and mongoloid, the reason you find R1a among turkics is the same why you would find R1b among Mexicans

The Altay people have 47% R1a and 27% Caucasian mtDNA. before the Turkic expansion it would seem the Turkic people were the results of interracial marriage of mostly between Caucasoid men and Mongoloid women and later their mix male Mongoloid descendants married Caucasoid women, it's really complicated.

Ars Orientalis: The Arts of Islam and the East, Volume 4

" Craniological studies of samples from the Pazyryk burials revealed the presence of both Mongoloid and Caucasoid components in this population. [4] quoting G. F. Debets on the physical characteristics of the population in the Pazyryk kurgans, records a mixed population. The men would seem to be part Mongoloid and the women Europoid. [5] "

[Vesuvian Sky]

M-17 or R1a1a = specific sub-clade of Macro-Group R1a. While R1a's status as being very archaic can be easily acceptable, its daughter clade R1a1a or M-17 is the talk of much speculation.


R-M420 (R1a) is a common Y DNA haplogroup in many parts of Eurasia. One sub-clade (branch) of R-M420, R-M17 (R1a1a), is much more common than the others in all major geographical regions. R-M17, defined by the SNP mutation M17, (and sometimes alternatively defined as R-M198), is particularly common in a large region extending from South Asia and Southern Siberia to Central Europe and Scandinavia.

Essentially, the time frame and precise reason for distibution is still debated. Should be noted that statistical analysis on modern population samples are not sure fire ways of dating it. One can choose Caoloscence Theory or Zhivotovsky method for trying to date it in a given region and end up with two different cultural contexts and dates for its appearance.

[Hayalet]

Turkics were basically mezticos, tribes or groups that were formed in clash betwen caucasoid and mongoloid
No, intermarriages between Caucasoids and Mongoloids most likely predate Turks.

[Artek]

No, intermarriages between Caucasoids and Mongoloids most likely predate Turks.
Of course they predate Turks. Skeletons with R1a and mongoloid mtdna (like C) were found before the period that we can talk about turkic language/culture.

[Duke]

No, intermarriages between Caucasoids and Mongoloids most likely predate Turks.

turks are result of it, most logical is they started to differ from both mongoloids, and caucasioids, and at one point formed as Turks.

[Formozgan]

Some Turkic ethnicities have high R1a due to founder effect. Just like most Brits, Spaniards, Basques have R1b when it originated around Iran/Turkey.

[Proto-Shaman]

Turkics were basically mezticos, tribes or groups that were formed in clash betwen caucasoid and mongoloid, the reason you find R1a among turkics is the same why you would find R1b among Mexicans


Some Turkic ethnicities have high R1a due to founder effect. Just like most Brits, Spaniards, Basques have R1b when it originated around Iran/Turkey.

@ both, then how do you explain that Kyrgyz and Bashkirs preserved the most original "Ar1an" base haplotypes?

[Proto-Shaman]

Turkics were basically mezticos, tribes or groups that were formed in clash betwen caucasoid and mongoloid, the reason you find R1a among turkics is the same why you would find R1b among Mexicans
Whats about northern Native Americans with R1?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Ameri cas

Your theory doesn't fit here at all, since...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_Central_and_North_Asian_populat ions

[Formozgan]

@ both, then how do you explain that Kyrgyz and Bashkirs preserved the most original "Ar1an" base haplotypes?

Kyrgyz have not preserved the most base r1a. Their r1a is not very diverse, unlike those in Poland, Belarussia, Russia, Volga and most of ancient Central Asia. Bashkirs are from Volga area as well. How high is their R1a?

[Proto-Shaman]

Kyrgyz have not preserved the most base r1a.
The Kyrgyz R1a by Y-DNA SNP (subclade: L342.2) has a common ancestor of 2100 ± 250 ybp. The Bashkirs have about 11-48% R1a. The Bashkir R1a by Y-DNA SNP (together with Ashkenazi Khazarian) has a common ancestor of 1125 ± 200 ybp. All the Bashkir Z2123+ likely have a very recent common ancestor (~500ybp).

http://bialczynski.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/drzewoxr1a.jpg?w=720

And as I mentioned before, Anatole Klyosov's genetic research has shown that the R1a basehaplotype 13 25 15 10 12 12 10 13 11 31 -- 15 14 20 12 16 11 23 (with a common ancestor of 3400 ± 505 ybp, the likely times for the Aryans coming to India) is reasonably close to the Bashkir Turkic and Kyrgyz Turkic base haplotypes (both R1a-L342.2).

Ar1an base haplotype: 13 25 15 10 12 12 10 13 11 31 -- 15 14 20 12 16 11 23
Kyrgyz base haplotype: 13 25 16 11 11 14 12 12 10 .. -- 14 11 32

[Varhun]

turks are result of it, most logical is they started to differ from both mongoloids, and caucasioids, and at one point formed as Turks.
Natural Mongoloid-Caucasoid forms even existed before mixing. See for example south Siberian Mesolithic Caucasoid Mongoloids, the basic anthropological type of Afanasievo, Andronovo, Karasuk, Irmen, Khvalynsk/Poltavkin, Okunev, Krotov cultures.

[Turkminator]

The headline is incorrect. R1a is Turkic. The term "Aryan" has no business there.

[XenophobicPrussian]

This is actually pretty feasible if we're talking R1a. There has to be a reason eastern Europeans look so different and look so "eastern" compared with Western Europeans despite both parts having the exact same climate(if it wasn't for the Mongolian/Cuman/Hun invasions eastern Europeans so vehemently deny) . As for R1b people, the first ones probably looked like MENA people.

[Willem]

This is actually pretty feasible if we're talking R1a. There has to be a reason eastern Europeans look so different and look so "eastern" compared with Western Europeans despite both parts having the exact same climate(if it wasn't for the Mongolian/Cuman/Hun invasions eastern Europeans so vehemently deny) . As for R1b people, the first ones probably looked like MENA people.

R could be a proto-Mongoloid haplogroup.

P is Central Asian, father of R.
Q is Amerindian & North Asian, brother of R.

[XenophobicPrussian]

R could be a proto-Mongoloid haplogroup.

P is Central Asian, father of R.
Q is Amerindian & North Asian, brother of R.
Why don't R1b people have Mongoloid traits then? Too much mixing with haplogroup E(I don't say I because R1a also mixed with them)? Well, mtDNA haplogroups associated with y haplogroup E, I should say.

[Proto-Shaman]

thats actually humorous quoting this author, however the oldest Slavic R1a is of Serbian origin and the best match to that indian R1a is actually Russian, which confirms proto-Slavic Aryan migration.

http://www.jogg.info/52/files/Klyosov2.pdf

http://shrani.si/f/1c/Ag/1lL1ZwUN/nodruks.png

there is no disgusting čurka mongrols.
And Native North Americans have common ancestors with R1 Slaviacs, Romaniacs, Germaniacs, Turkiacs, Iraniacs, Celtiacs. Lol. Sorry, but Slavic (Z282) is out of buisness (Z93) here:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t-X16Q-MuoE/U0pzP05htnI/AAAAAAAAAUc/eJbYcQ-AFao/w746-h388-no/Underhill_Z282.png
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-75LFC2DbVTQ/U0pzZpEe2QI/AAAAAAAAAU4/-KnlCxo9SkM/w746-h408-no/Underhill_Z93.png

The nice and useful info you have shown us differs hardcore from what you wanted to claim. epic fail as always xD

btw, do you still believe Nordic Scytho-Slaviacs migrated from Andronovo? :rolleyes:

[Proto-Shaman]

you are a disfigured cocktail bastardized gypsy whose mother was raped in groups of lined up slit-eyes mongoloids.
Says the Finno-Ugric Tschurka Turk xD


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0nmRAeWtiY

Hail Slavo-IraAr1an heritage! xD

[Proto-Shaman]

I only see Turkey all white, no blue no green.
Then you have the typical Soviet Turk-problem syndrome. Buy some grass and get over it ;-)

[Proto-Shaman]

R could be a proto-Mongoloid haplogroup.
with proto-Mongoloid you mean this look?

(Kyrgyz)
http://ericlafforgue.com/wp-content/uploads/galerie/ELDERS//Kyrgyzstan.jpg

or this?

(Mongolian)
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4109/4957073772_a770d385bd_b.jpg

[Caballero]

The original R people carrying an autosomal DNA so called Ancient North Eurasian probably didn't look Mongoloid at all. It's clear that ANE is a Western Eurasian component, adding the fact that Amerindians always looked suspicious and not fully Mongoloid especially the Silvid phenotype among them strengthen the allusion. I would say the R people were some sort of robust swarthy Taurids: and yes i am just taking a wild guess.

And original Turks were probably C and Q carriers. Every Altaic that carries a R1a haplogroup is an assimilated Indo-Iranian or Tocharian of some some sort.

[Varhun]

The original R people carrying an autosomal DNA so called Ancient North Eurasian probably didn't look Mongoloid at all. It's clear that ANE is a Western Eurasian component, adding the fact that Amerindians always looked suspicious and not fully Mongoloid especially the Silvid phenotype among them strengthen the allusion. I would say the R people were some sort of robust swarthy Taurids: and yes i am just taking a wild guess.

And original Turks were probably C and Q carriers. Every Altaic that carries a R1a haplogroup is an assimilated Indo-Iranian or Tocharian of some some sort.
You must mean Zarzian I guess? Hard to prove if you ask me, but nothing is impossible.

[Pennywise]

The original R people carrying an autosomal DNA so called Ancient North Eurasian probably didn't look Mongoloid at all. It's clear that ANE is a Western Eurasian component, adding the fact that Amerindians always looked suspicious and not fully Mongoloid especially the Silvid phenotype among them strengthen the allusion. I would say the R people were some sort of robust swarthy Taurids: and yes i am just taking a wild guess.

And original Turks were probably C and Q carriers. Every Altaic that carries a R1a haplogroup is an assimilated Indo-Iranian or Tocharian of some some sort.

Almost all R1a1 carrier Scythian skeletons were Europo-Mongoloid and even some of them close to fully Mongoloid. Haplogroups have no direct effection to physical looking. R1a and R1b both are very old Eurasiatic genes. They can't be just define with IE speakers. Besides, we don't know what is "true" Turkic haplogroup/s.

[Caballero]

You must mean Zarzian I guess? Hard to prove if you ask me, but nothing is impossible.

I didn't know what you mean with Zarzian so i googled and i see it was an Paleolithic and Mesolithic culture in SouthWest Asia, i'll say far from the Siberian homeland of Y-DN R full of ANE. Don't forget the Mal'ta boy.

Probably in the future when scientists will accurately determine all the genes responsible for the phenotype we can accurately reconstruct how did they really look. I guess phenotype is variable since a lot of factors are taken in consideration. Whatever, it would still be fun!


Almost all R1a1 carrier Scythian skelotons were Europo-Mongoloid and even some of them close to fully Mongoloid. Haplogroups have no direct effection to physical looking. R1a and R1b both are very old Eurasiatic genes. They can't be just define with IE speakers. Besides, we don't know what is "true" Turkic haplogroup/s.

Of course they are old, but when we speak about Turkics they carry specific subclade, i mean child subclades of the more Western variants. So that's a no rocket science to figure out it's simply an Indo-Iranian/Tocharian marker. Nothing wrong with it, actually.

[Proto-Shaman]

Every Altaic that carries a R1a haplogroup is an assimilated Indo-Iranian or Tocharian of some some sort.
Ah yeah, and thats why central Asian Turkic Mongoloids do carry P-M45 (papa of R & Q), because they are so tr00ly Indo-Iranian or Tocharian right?

[Pennywise]

Of course they are old, but when we speak about Turkics they carry specific subclade, i mean child subclades of the more Western variants. So that's a no rocket science to figure out it's simply an Indo-Iranian/Tocharian marker. Nothing wrong with it, actually.

It can be correlated with IE speakers in Central Asia, yes. But that doesn't mean all R carriers were IE or PIE shifted people. Like I said, the excistence of this haplotype in Eurasia is very old and it can be "shifted" from anywhere to Turkic or non-IE speakers in the region.

[Caballero]

It can be correlated with IE speakers in Central Asia, yes. But that doesn't mean all R carriers were IE or PIE shifted people. Like I said, the excistence of this haplotype in Eurasia is very old and it can be "shifted" from anywhere to Turkic or non-IE speakers in the region.

Ofcourse not. After the Haak paper we are inclined to believe that the original PIE speakers were the R1b carriers, before that everyone laughed at the idea of R1b having anything to do with the PIE. Yamnaya is the strongest candidate so if almost exclusively all of Yamnaya males were R1b it's easy to assume the PIE were really R1b1a2-L23 and R1a were language shifters. These are all assumptions, but we can guess at some percentage rates.

[Pennywise]

Ofcourse not. After the Haak paper we are inclined to believe that the original PIE speakers were the R1b carriers, before that everyone laughed at the idea of R1b having anything to do with the PIE. Yamnaya is the strongest candidate so if almost exclusively all of Yamnaya males were R1b it's easy to assume the PIE were really R1b1a2-L23 and R1a were language shifters. These are all assumptions, but we can guess at some percentage rates.

It doesn't proven either. Many researchers still against the idea of the possible correlation between IE speakers and R1b. Like you said, we are just talking about theories here.

[Arhat]

I am really tired of this "turanian" retards. Sintashta had Z93 and zero Turkic or altaic admixture.

[Arhat]

It doesn't proven either. Many researchers still against the idea of the possible correlation between IE speakers and R1b. Like you said, we are just talking about theories here.

R1b+R1a=Indo-European . Just get over it.

[Pennywise]

R1b+R1a=Indo-European . Just get over it.

You are a brainless illiterate retard. Get over it.

[Arhat]

You are a brainless illiterate retard. Get over it.

You are descendants of people fucked and enslaved by basically everyone in Eurasia. You have nothing to do with Scythians and not even much with real Turks. Make a DNA test to know from which part of Africa or Arabia your ancestors migrated some thousand years ago to Anatolia. Don't talk about Indoeuropeans,Scythians, R1a or R1b you have nothing to do with that.

[Arhat]

bump.

[Pennywise]

You are descendants of people fucked and enslaved by basically everyone in Eurasia. You have nothing to do with Scythians and not even much with real Turks. Make a DNA test to know from which part of Africa or Arabia your ancestors migrated some thousand years ago to Anatolia. Don't talk about Indoeuropeans,Scythians, R1a or R1b you have nothing to do with that.

LOL you son of a proud Indo-European raped fuck faced subhuman. The OP did just share a study but you can't even tolarate it. I bet you didn't even read the study. Instead of that, you quickly ran here and laballed everyone as Turanist. :) You primitive useless creature. Stop bitching around here and fuck off.

[Arhat]

LOL you son of a proud Indo-European raped fuck faced subhuman. The OP did just share a study but you can't even tolarate it. I bet you didn't even read the study. Instead of that, you quickly ran here and laballed everyone as Turanist. :) You primitive useless creature. Stop bitching around here and fuck off.
Your half goat gypsy ancestors are the ugliest people I have seen after niggers. You were and will be always slaves. This is an European forum so get the fuck out of here Neolithic farmer gypsy from Africa. People like you are a shame for the entire human race and you are neither Aryans or Altaics you are just semits with a funny inferiority complex and Stockholm syndrom. Make a DNA test gypsy and tell me if your ancestors are from Jemen or Sudan.

[Guapo]

Your half goat gypsy ancestors are the ugliest people I have seen after niggers. You were and will be always slaves. This is an European forum so get the fuck out of here Neolithic farmer gypsy from Africa. People like you are a shame for the entire human race and you are neither Aryans or Altaics you are just semits with a funny inferiority complex and Stockholm syndrom. Make a DNA test gypsy and tell me if your ancestors are from Jemen or Sudan.

:laugh:

[Pennywise]

Your half goat gypsy ancestors are the ugliest people I have seen after niggers. You were and will be always slaves. This is an European forum so get the fuck out of here Neolithic farmer gypsy from Africa. People like you are a shame for the entire human race and you are neither Aryans or Altaics you are just semits with a funny inferiority complex and Stockholm syndrom. Make a DNA test gypsy and tell me if your ancestors are from Jemen or Sudan.

^ This fucking ignorant sub-animal can't even insult a person :D "Neolithic farmer" as an insult? seriously? LOL. You clusterfuck unidentified animal, stop keep telling me to make DNA test, your brain is not evolved enough to understand what is DNA or how it is interpreted and etc.

Fuck off my face now and never quote me again.

[Varhun]

^ This fucking ignorant sub-animal can't even insult a person :D "Neolithic farmer" as an insult? seriously? LOL. You clusterfuck unidentified animal, stop keep telling me to make DNA test, your brain is not evolved enough to understand what is DNA or how it is interpreted and etc.

Fuck off my face now and never quote me again.
Why do you even talk with people who think that ancient Turkic peoples belonged to a non-existent language group called Indo-European (aka. European supremacist ideology).

[Arhat]

^ This fucking ignorant sub-animal can't even insult a person :D "Neolithic farmer" as an insult? seriously? LOL. You clusterfuck unidentified animal, stop keep telling me to make DNA test, your brain is not evolved enough to understand what is DNA or how it is interpreted and etc.

Fuck off my face now and never quote me again.

It is hard not to use racist slurs when reading so much BS from wannabe Mongols who want to be wannabe Aryans but are actually just depigmented Niggro-Semits from Sudan or Jemen. I have seen enough scum from Anatolia and just Kurds are ok. I hate to repeat it but you don't get it: YOU ARE AS MUCH ARYAN AS A CONGOLESE!!! Lol please just make a DNA test gypsy before you write more bullshit here. I am not racist I just hate scum which try to fake history and can not accept reality. But nevertheless can your kind of pan-retards not just leave this forum.

[Arhat]

Why do you even talk with people who think that ancient Turkic peoples belonged to a non-existent language group called Indo-European (aka. European supremacist ideology).

Are you mentally ill? Be honest to yourself your ancestors were neither Turks or Indo-Europeans they were just bitches and prostitutes of them. Your people are descendants of Neolithic Farmer rich in African-like lineages and DNA so you are more related to some Africans than to Aryans or Dschingis Khan.

[Varhun]

Are you mentally ill? Be honest to yourself your ancestors were neither Turks or Indo-Europeans they were just bitches and prostitutes of them. Your people are descendants of Neolithic Farmer rich in African-like lineages and DNA so you are more related to some Africans than to Aryans or Dschingis Khan.
The 'arrival' of Indo-European people in Europe and Asia must be seen as one of the major episodes of the 'arrival' of Homo sapiens in Europe and Asia from Africa, and not as an event of recent prehistory. Do you understand?

[Arhat]

The 'arrival' of Indo-European people in Europe and Asia must be seen as one of the major episodes of the 'arrival' of Homo sapiens in Europe and Asia from Africa, and not as an event of recent prehistory. Do you understand?
Your ancestors arrived from Africa some thousand years ago as Basal Eurasian Farmer people dont pretend you are a hun.

[gültekin]

Your ancestors arrived from Africa some thousand years ago as Basal Eurasian Farmer people dont pretend you are a hun.
hello dexter_morgan, how are you?
http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/07_03/ancient.shtml
DNA from a 2,000-year-old burial site in Mongolia has revealed new information about the Xiongnu, a nomadic tribe that once reigned in Central Asia. Researchers in France studied DNA from more than 62 skeletons to reconstruct the history and social organization of a long-forgotten culture.


Ancient grave in the Egyin Gol necropolis.
Courtesy E. Crubezy, Université Paul Sabatier, Toulouse, France
The researchers found that interbreeding between Europeans and Asians occurred much earlier than previously thought. They also found DNA sequences similar to those in present-day Turks, supporting the idea that some of the Turkish people originated in Mongolia

[Proto-Shaman]

hello dexter_morgan, how are you?
dexter_morgan olduğunu da nerden biliyon? emin misin?

[Ülev]

Why don't R1b people have Mongoloid traits then? Too much mixing with haplogroup E(I don't say I because R1a also mixed with them)? Well, mtDNA haplogroups associated with y haplogroup E, I should say.


Molecular Genealogy of a Mongol Queen’s Family and Her Possible Kinship with Genghis Khan

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5023095/

Members of the Mongol imperial family (designated the Golden family) are buried in a secret necropolis; therefore, none of their burial grounds have been found. In 2004, we first discovered 5 graves belonging to the Golden family in Tavan Tolgoi, Eastern Mongolia. To define the genealogy of the 5 bodies and the kinship among them, SNP and/or STR profiles of mitochondria, autosomes, and Y chromosomes were analyzed. Four of the 5 bodies were determined to carry the mitochondrial DNA haplogroup D4, while the fifth carried haplogroup CZ, indicating that this individual had no kinship with the others. Meanwhile, Y-SNP and Y-STR profiles indicate that the males examined belonged to the R1b-M343 haplogroup

a pic of those noble people from German version of Wikipedia - do you see that redish-white skin tone?:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Mongolian_children_with_mother.jpg
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolen


http://i59.tinypic.com/2nbvsc3.jpg



https://youtu.be/EY39fkmqKBM

and finally, how looks Arjen Robben's top of head for example?

https://78.media.tumblr.com/8932a922914a569226fca1545a038a05/tumblr_inline_ny4rjs3mdX1sxre9s_540.png
https://kundalinirising88.tumblr.com/post/133646599151/the-three-main-races

[Eisenblut]

Of course they predate Turks. Skeletons with R1a and mongoloid mtdna (like C) were found before the period that we can talk about turkic language/culture.
Damgaard 2018 (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2018/05/08/science.aar7711) and Narasimhan 2018 (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/31/292581) are proving the opposite.