Ancestry Composition of White South Africans

[Kazimiera]

Here are the ancestry compositions of a number of white South Africans. Both parents and all grandparents are South African.

I excluded people of declared Jewish ancestry.


http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/2_zps208cd5e2.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/4_zps473cbda4.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/1_zps3cca46aa.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/5_zpsd93c3f59.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/7_zps4920d5d1.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/6_zps3e332ee8.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/3_zps6738ae38.jpg

[Graham]

Average South African.(rounded up) :)

95.0% -- European
64.1% -- Northern European
03.0% -- Southern European
--------------
00.2% -- Eastern European
27.7% -- Nonspecific European
--------------
00.1% -- Ashkenazi
--------------
02.1% -- Sub-Sahran African
--------------
01.3% -- South Asian
--------------
00.5% -- East Asian
--------------
01.1% -- Unassigned

[WOOHP]

Why do they score so low of the southern component? I thought that many southern Frenchmen immigrated to South Africa.

[safinator]

Are there South Africans scoring more than 99% European on speculative?

[Kazimiera]

Why do they score so low of the southern component? I thought that many southern Frenchmen immigrated to South Africa.

This is true. The Huguenots. I'm not sure why the Southern component is so low. :confused:


Are there South Africans scoring more than 99% European on speculative?

None. :)

[Kazimiera]

I did not include myself in the above compositions because my mother is not South African.

[Graham]

What do you think the South Asian link is?

[Tropico]

Where is the South Asian coming from?

[Kazimiera]

What do you think the South Asian link is?

There were hundreds and hundreds of slaves brought from India, Malaysia, Indonesia and Madagascar. The settlers mixed with the slaves.

South Africa was the halfway mark between Europe and the Far East on the trade routes. The Dutch brought slaves by their hundreds from Asia.

[WOOHP]

Probably from Indians(India) living in South Africa.

[Kazimiera]

Here are the names of some (only a few) female progenitors who were slaves. From them are descended thousands and thousands of people.


Dorothea van Bengale (from Bengal)
Angela van Bengale (from Bengal)
Diana van Madagscar (Madagascar)
Anna Groothenning van Bengale (from Bengal)
Catharina van Malabar (Malabar - region in southern India)
Susanna van Bombassa also called van Madagascar
Catharina van Bengale (Bengal)
Maria van Bengale (Bengal)
Maria van Negapatnam (Negapatnam is a region in India)

[Shah-Jehan]

Here are the names of some (only a few) female progenitors who were slaves. From them are descended thousands and thousands of people.


Dorothea van Bengale (from Bengal)
Angela van Bengale (from Bengal)
Diana van Madagscar (Madagascar)
Anna Groothenning van Bengale (from Bengal)
Catharina van Malabar (Malabar - region in southern India)
Susanna van Bombassa also called van Madagascar
Catharina van Bengale (Bengal)
Maria van Bengale (Bengal)
Maria van Negapatnam (Negapatnam is a region in India)

wow, they seem to have a lot of Bengali ancestry:D

[Kazimiera]

West Bengal and Bangladesh

http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/47/127647-004-4F27BA31.gif

[Kazimiera]

Another common region was Batavia (now Jakarta) which was a Dutch colony.

http://www.worldtouristmap.com/asia/images/indonesia-map.jpg

[Kazimiera]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/cb_zps100de4d2.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/mb_zps43187429.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/hve_zps95c589a5.png

[Kazimiera]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/gm_zpsaf36ff1c.png

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/sp_zps6a3d50c5.png

[Kazimiera]

These are two siblings.

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/MF_zps0d0c409b.png

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/GH_zpsb411e3ed.png

[StonyArabia]

This shows why the one drop rule is retarded and there is no such thing as purity especially when communities are put together.

[Kazimiera]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/RVN_zps8ade7f82.jpg

[istripador]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/RVN_zps8ade7f82.jpg

loki underestimates both the non-European component of the South African white and magnifies the Scandinavian?

[SilverKnight]

Here are the ancestry compositions of a number of white South Africans. Both parents and all grandparents are South African.

I excluded people of declared Jewish ancestry.


http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/2_zps208cd5e2.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/4_zps473cbda4.jpg















My black sistah


http://liveactionnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/crying-troll-face-300x298.jpg

[Smeagol]

Wow, Americans have remained very pure compared to all the other former European colonies.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Why do they score so low of the southern component? I thought that many southern Frenchmen immigrated to South Africa.

It's probably new.

[istripador]

Wow, Americans have remained very pure compared to all the other former European colonies.

canada and australia are purest

[Rudel]

Why do they score so low of the southern component? I thought that many southern Frenchmen immigrated to South Africa.

I doubt people from the Cévennes or Montpellier (main Protestant strongholds) cluster much with what 23andme counts as Southern Europeans (Southern Italians, Greeks etc.).

[Kazimiera]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/rp_zpse6fbc586.png

[Kazimiera]

I doubt people from the Cévennes or Montpellier (main Protestant strongholds) cluster much with what 23andme counts as Southern Europeans (Southern Italians, Greeks etc.).

I wonder why this is?

My most distant paternal ancestor is from Pontaix born in mid-1600's.

[Rudel]

I wonder why this is?
People from Southern France aren't Mediterraneans, unless you just take the coastal strip.

[Kazimiera]

People from Southern France aren't Mediterraneans, unless you just take the coastal strip.

Thank you. :)

I score about 3% South European.

[Sippola]

Wow, Americans have remained very pure compared to all the other former European colonies.

What is the percentage of north European in American whites on average?

[Smeagol]

What is the percentage of north European in American whites on average?

For most Colonial White Americans, it would be pretty much the same as the British I'd guess.

[Wuotan]

This is true. The Huguenots. I'm not sure why the Southern component is so low. :confused:



None. :)



In the "Ancestry Composition" section of 23andme the French are part of the "Northern European" group. I believe that the "Northern European" group starts North of the Pyrenees and West of the Alps. Also, WHOOP alluded to the Huguenots being Southern Frenchmen if I'm reading correct? I was always thought they were Northern Frenchman, or at least North of the Alps. Please clarify if I'm mistaken guys, for I'm not certain.


Lastly, a question for OP: Which ancestry composition setting did you use? Conservative, Speculative?

[Kazimiera]

Lastly, a question for OP: Which ancestry composition setting did you use? Conservative, Speculative?

Speculative.

[istripador]

Speculative.

which the smallest amount of European blood you've ever seen on a white South African?

[Kazimiera]

which the smallest amount of European blood you've ever seen on a white South African?

I am not experienced enough in genetics to able to give you a proper answer on this, or at least the answer you are looking for.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

What is the percentage of north European in American whites on average?

They settled the northern states except new england.

[Peyrol]

This is true. The Huguenots. I'm not sure why the Southern component is so low. :confused:



None. :)

There were even italian immigrants in the XIX-XX century.

[Kazimiera]

There were even italian immigrants in the XIX-XX century.

Yes of course.

But not in the 1700's, which is the old admix I'm talking about. The French Huguenots don't show up as Southern European.

[Kazimiera]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/mc_zps1d95f4c3.png

[istripador]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/mc_zps1d95f4c3.png

these people with less than 90% European DNA how they look?

[Kazimiera]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/LB_zpsf66f6ad5.png (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/LB_zpsf66f6ad5.png.html)

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/JSB_zps07f24785.png (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/JSB_zps07f24785.png.html)

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/WJVR_zps7a3276ea.png (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/WJVR_zps7a3276ea.png.html)

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/CS_zps5dff0c3e.png (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/CS_zps5dff0c3e.png.html)

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/ELR_zps4f460107.png (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/ELR_zps4f460107.png.html)

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/FF_zps9d036207.png (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/FF_zps9d036207.png.html)

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Why do they score so low of the southern component? I thought that many southern Frenchmen immigrated to South Africa.

If they are unmixed and don't come from south of france they should not have it. Probably more of a comment on france today than on south africans.

[Kazimiera]

I am not entirely sure who or what this person is but I thought I would include the results anyway. This person has an Afrikaans name and surname.

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/JH_zps195bd041.png (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/JH_zps195bd041.png.html)

[Kazimiera]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/AR_zps121765be.jpg (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/AR_zps121765be.jpg.html)

[Kazimiera]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/HK_zpsa5744269.jpg (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/HK_zpsa5744269.jpg.html)

[Cooper]

What is the percentage of north European in American whites on average?

Including myself, I have data for 33 white Americans on 23andMe. Using the "standard" estimate, 17 score greater than 0% Southern European; the highest is 51.3% (an Italian American). Thus, for all 33, there is a mean of 4.3% Southern European and a median of 0.3% Southern European. Six have known recent ancestry from Southern Europe (equivalent to at least one grandparent); removing them, the mean falls to 0.3% Southern European while the median drops to 0%. Of the 33, 22 score greater than 0% non-European, with a max of 1.6%. So the mean non-Euro for all 33 is 0.2%, and the median is 0.1%.

[Kazimiera]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/LS_zps1ba8c0d0.jpg (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/LS_zps1ba8c0d0.jpg.html)

[RighNick]

Thank you so much for posting these! White South Africans have some of the most interesting ancestry compositions, at least in my opinion. I know you're not an Afrikaner, but do you know if they have a similar level of relatedness as certain other groups? I know, for example, that French Canadians, Ashkenazim and Puerto Ricans tend to have many matches that show up as much closer relations than expected due to the founder effect. Is this also the case with Afrikaners?

[Kazimiera]

Thank you so much for posting these! White South Africans have some of the most interesting ancestry compositions, at least in my opinion. I know you're not an Afrikaner, but do you know if they have a similar level of relatedness as certain other groups? I know, for example, that French Canadians, Ashkenazim and Puerto Ricans tend to have many matches that show up as much closer relations than expected due to the founder effect. Is this also the case with Afrikaners?

Yes. It is true. Because of a population bottleneck they all seem to be far closer than they really are.

[RighNick]

Yes. It is true. Because of a population bottleneck they all seem to be far closer than they really are.

Interesting! Were Anglo-(South)Africans also affected by a similar bottleneck?

[Kazimiera]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/BK_zps94c6f764.jpg (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/BK_zps94c6f764.jpg.html)

[Isleño]

23andme labels French as "Northern European". I those in Southern France may be included in this although they share similar genetics as northern Iberians. In my opinion, white South Africans are similar to other white New Worlders like white Americans, Canadians, Argentines and white Cubans or others that are in the 90%+ Euro range with small admixtures.

[Loki]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/4_zps473cbda4.jpg



Kapenaar, I'm sure :D

[Kazimiera]

Kapenaar, I'm sure :D

Must be. No idea. A pity the people don't post pictures of themselves.

[Oneeye]

What is the percentage of north European in American whites on average?

A lot higher than most people here probably realize. I personally score about 98% northern European and 2% southern. It really comes down if you include post 1900 immigrants though. Most whites of ancestry before then should score similar.


canada and australia are purest

Are there threads for Australian and Canadian 23andme results? I bet a much larger number of white Canadians have Native American ancestry than white Americans. As for Aussies, I'd like to compare how much more British Isle they are.


Including myself, I have data for 33 white Americans on 23andMe. Using the "standard" estimate, 17 score greater than 0% Southern European; the highest is 51.3% (an Italian American). Thus, for all 33, there is a mean of 4.3% Southern European and a median of 0.3% Southern European. Six have known recent ancestry from Southern Europe (equivalent to at least one grandparent); removing them, the mean falls to 0.3% Southern European while the median drops to 0%. Of the 33, 22 score greater than 0% non-European, with a max of 1.6%. So the mean non-Euro for all 33 is 0.2%, and the median is 0.1%.

Interesting. Nearly all of my connections plot in the Northern European section (I share with over a hundred people, a couple of the Eastern Euro and Southern Euros aren't Americans, and several of the Northern Euros live in Scandinavia, the British Isles, or the Netherlands.)


http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u399/hammer1115/recent23andmeplot_zps9f392182.png (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/hammer1115/media/recent23andmeplot_zps9f392182.png.html)

[The King, I am]

haha So all white South Africans are part black, didnt know that

[Loki]

haha So all white South Africans are part black, didnt know that

Not all, and it's not much.

[The King, I am]

Not all, and it's not much.

i know but still

[Loki]

i know but still

Still what?

[Graham]

They have some far flung african ancestors that are a tiny amount of the South African genetics. At least that means they can claim ancestry to the continent since forever. :P

[The King, I am]

Still what?

Still part black if 2 percent is the average

[Loki]

Still part black if 2 percent is the average

The average of how many samples? But yeah, it's possible due to the bottleneck-effect of the [small] population of 1700 who intermixed with each other.

[Smeagol]

2% is nothing.

[The King, I am]

2% is nothing.

0% is nothing

[Kazimiera]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/AO_zps6159e378.png (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/AO_zps6159e378.png.html)

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/LvdM_zps31c2df25.png (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/katzentatzen79/media/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/LvdM_zps31c2df25.png.html)

[Petalpusher]

Why do they score so low of the southern component? I thought that many southern Frenchmen immigrated to South Africa.


This is true. The Huguenots. I'm not sure why the Southern component is so low. :confused:


The Huguenots were not Southerners, they were initially from Normandy, Picardy and around. So it's no surprise there is not much '"Southern European" component. they probably even score more Northern than the other European settlers in South Africa.
After their great protestant exile all around the world, it lowered almost by half the Normandy and lower Normandy population at that time.

[Kazimiera]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q526/katzentatzen79/South%20African%20Ancestry%20Composition/DB_zps3f247630.png

[Renegade Abraham]

Interesting! A large chunk seem to have more South Asian admixture than Sub-Saharan African. Not much Hottentot admixture either (most of them have Central and West African percentages in higher quantities than Southern). That's more Bantu and Zulu than Bushmen.

[Loki]

That's more Bantu and Zulu than Bushmen.

Not Bantu or Zulu, but predominantly West African slaves.

[AverageKorhonen]

0% is nothing
:thumb001:

[Peterski]

"Immigrants from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the Early Stages of European Colonization of the Cape Colony (1652 - 1707)":

http://www.geographiapolonica.pl/article/item/7562.html

http://rcin.org.pl/Content/29182/WA51_49371_r2012-t85-no3_G-Polonica-Kowalski.pdf

By Mariusz Kowalski. In English. 22 pages.

He also writes that people from the Netherlands, French Huguenots and Germans were groups which contributed most to Boers in terms of %.

[Leto]

Very interesting, thank you!:thumb001: I didn't know almost all of them had some minor non-European ancestry (SSA, S. Asian, E. Asian, etc.). That doesn't really matter, they still look white and identify as such.

[Antimage]

these people with less than 90% European DNA how they look?

It depends. 90% european 5% black 5% asian will look full euro. 90% euro 10% amerind will look full euro.

90% euro 10% black person may show a little black i think