Classify Shah Ismail of Persia

[StonyArabia]

Shah Ismail of Persia is said to be mixed of Kurdish, Pontic Greek, and Persian. It's believed that their ancestors are Kurds who adopted the Azeri language. He would be responsible for an important change of the Islamic world, in which he transforms Persia into 12er Shiaism. The dynasty that he created eventually fell to the Pashtuns who invaded Persia and imposed their Hotaki dynasty.

http://s13.postimg.org/x6zxl7jlz/Persian_Shah.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
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http://s15.postimg.org/ra5xj67iz/Shah_Ismail_Hatayi.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
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[Smeagol]

Iranic + East Med.

[StonyArabia]

Iranic + East Med.

Do you see any Turkic in the guy, because I sure as hell don't.

[Roy]

Irano-Afghanid.

[Smeagol]

Do you see any Turkic in the guy, because I sure as hell don't.

No.

[Shah-Jehan]

Iranid/east med...

[Sky earth]

Shah Ismail of Persia is said to be mixed of Kurdish, Pontic Greek, and Persian. It's believed that their ancestors are Kurds who adopted the Azeri language. He would be responsible for an important change of the Islamic world, in which he transforms Persia into 12er Shiaism. The dynasty that he created eventually fell to the Pashtuns who invaded Persia and imposed their Hotaki dynasty.

http://s13.postimg.org/x6zxl7jlz/Persian_Shah.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
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http://s15.postimg.org/ra5xj67iz/Shah_Ismail_Hatayi.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
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Shah Ismail saw himself as Azeri Turk at first. He has even more Azeri Turkish poems than Persian poems but no single ONE Kurdish poem as he couldn't even speak Kurdish. His mother was a half Turkmen women anyway as she was the daughter of Uzun Hasan and Uzun Hasan was the sultan of Turkmen Aq Qoyunlu dynasty.

I see the Safavids as Turko-Persian dynasty. The court language was Persian but the rulers and the military (Qizilbash) were of Turkic origin and that's an important fact. The Safavids couldn't be such Persian language supporters when Iran is full of Turkic peoples today.

[StonyArabia]

No Shah Ismail and his dynasty saw themselves as Persians and yes his paternal side were Kurdish, because they descent from the Kurdish lineage.

There seems now to be a consensus among scholars that the Safavid family hailed from Persian Kurdistan, and later moved to Azerbaijan, finally settling in the 11th century CE at Ardabil. Traditional pre-1501 Safavid manuscripts trace the lineage of the Safavids to Kurdish dignitary, Firuz Shah Zarin-Kulah.

b RM Savory. Ebn Bazzaz. Encyclopædia Iranica


But the origins of the family of Shaykh Safi al-Din go back not to Hijaz but to Kurdistan, from where, seven generations before him, Firuz Shah Zarin-kulah had migrated to Adharbayjan"

[Kiyant]

But he still saw himself as Azeri and used the Turkish language for his poems more often then Persian.

[Hayalet]

Shah Ismail was a Turk by identity, no doubt about that. He also endorsed the use of Turkish over Persian in poetry unlike his Ottoman counterpart. His supposed Kurdish ancestry is pure speculation, but Greek ancestry (1/4) is true.

[StonyArabia]

Shah Ismail was a Turk by identity, no doubt about that. He also endorsed the use of Turkish over Persian in poetry unlike his Ottoman counterpart. His supposed Kurdish ancestry is pure speculation, but Greek ancestry (1/4) is true.

I don't think so, I believe his Kurdish identity is real. The guy was Turk only by language he saw himself as Persian and fought for Persian interest, he also revived Persian culture. The Kurdish ancestry is real because most Kurds are Shafi Sunni, and the Saffyiah order which they belonged to was composed mostly of Kurds.

[Hayalet]

I don't think so, I believe his Kurdish identity is real. The guy was Turk only by language he saw himself as Persian and fought for Persian interest, he also revived Persian culture. The Kurdish ancestry is real because most Kurds are Shafi Sunni, and the Saffyiah order which they belonged to was composed mostly of Kurds.
BS, you just dislike him because he was Shia.

[Shah-Jehan]

BS, you just dislike him because he was Shia.

How is this a case of dislike? Alberta is not even Persian nor Kurdish...Don't know why?

[StonyArabia]

BS, you just dislike him because he was Shia.


Not at all, he was Persian and revived Persian culture, those are facts. No you dislike the facts because they go against your Pan-Turkic ideals or thoughts.

[Sky earth]

No Shah Ismail and his dynasty saw themselves as Persians and yes his paternal side were Kurdish, because they descent from the Kurdish lineage.

There seems now to be a consensus among scholars that the Safavid family hailed from Persian Kurdistan, and later moved to Azerbaijan, finally settling in the 11th century CE at Ardabil. Traditional pre-1501 Safavid manuscripts trace the lineage of the Safavids to Kurdish dignitary, Firuz Shah Zarin-Kulah.

b RM Savory. Ebn Bazzaz. Encyclopædia Iranica


But the origins of the family of Shaykh Safi al-Din go back not to Hijaz but to Kurdistan, from where, seven generations before him, Firuz Shah Zarin-kulah had migrated to Adharbayjan"

That's a typical Iranocentrist propaganda by "neutral" scholars nothing more. I have actually nothing against Persians but Pan-Iranists can't accept the truth that they were ruled by Turkic peoples since we migrated there. How do the hell do you imagine this Alberta? Did the father of Shah Ismael fall in love with the language of Oghuz Turkish nomads and teached his son their language instead his Kurdish mother tongue? How can his father be Kurdish when Ismael couldn't even speak Kurdish? Shah Ismael declared himself at first as the Shah of Azerbaijan and then as Shah of Iran. The court languages of the Safavids was Azerbaijani Turkish anyway until Isfahan became the capital.

Here is something interesting from Wikipedia:

Although the Safavid rulers and citizens were of native stock and continuously reasserted their Iranian identity, the power structure of the Safavid state was mainly divided into two groups: the Turkic-speaking military/ruling elite—whose job was to maintain the territorial integrity and continuity of the Iranian empire through their leadership—and the Persian-speaking administrative/governing elite—whose job was to oversee the operation and development of the nation and its identity through their high positions. Thus came the term "Turk and Tajik", which was used by native Iranians for many generations to describe the Persianate, or Turko-Persian, nature of many dynasties which ruled over Greater Iran between the 12th and 20th centuries, in that these dynasties promoted and helped continue the dominant Persian linguistic and cultural identity of their states, although the dynasties themselves were of non-Persian (e.g. Turkic) linguistic origins. The relationship between the Turkic-speaking 'Turks' and Persian-speaking 'Tajiks' was symbiotic, yet some form of rivalry did exist between the two. As the former represented the "people of the sword" and the latter, "the people of the pen", high-level official posts would naturally be reserved for the Persians. Indeed, this had been the situation throughout Persian history, even before the Safavids, ever since the Arab conquest.[102] Shah Tahmasp introduced a change to this, when he, and the other Safavid rulers who succeeded him, sought to blur the formerly defined lines between the two linguistic groups, by taking the sons of Turkic-speaking officers into the royal household for their education in the Persian language. Consequently, they were slowly able to take on administrative jobs in areas which had hitherto been the exclusive preserve of the ethnic Persians.[103]

[Shah-Jehan]

That's a typical Iranocentrist propaganda by "neutral" scholars nothing more. I have actually nothing against Persians but Pan-Iranists can't accept the truth that they were ruled by Turkic peoples since we migrated there. How do the hell do you imagine this Alberta? Did the father of Shah Ismael fall in love with the language of Oghuz Turkish nomads and teached his son their language instead his Kurdish mother tongue? How can his father be Kurdish when Ismael couldn't even speak Kurdish? Shah Ismael declared himself at first as the Shah of Azerbaijan and then as Shah of Iran. The court languages of the Safavids was Azerbaijani Turkish anyway until Isfahan became the capital.
Fine, but, they were also Sayyids, descendants of the family of the prophet, don't say that the prophet was also Turkic...

[Sky earth]

Fine, but, they were also Sayyids, descendants of the family of the prophet, don't say that the prophet was also Turkic...

The whole Sayyid thing is bullshit. Muslim dynasties whether it be Turkic or Persian ones often claimed to be descendants of the prophet Muhammed so that they could rule over Islamic lands.

[Shah-Jehan]

The whole Sayyid thing is bullshit. Muslim dynasties whether it be Turkic or Persian ones often claimed to be descendants of the prophet Muhammed so that they could rule over Islamic lands.

The Osmanlis didn't...nor did the Mughals...

[StonyArabia]

The Osmanlis didn't...nor did the Mughals...


That's because being a Sayyid is really not mandatory for Sunnis in kingship/rulership, but for Shias it is, and hence why such claims are made, and most often they are made up. I don't believe they have Sayyid ancestry at all, and no serious scholars or historians asserts this claim. However there Kurdish lineage seem to be in support. That said the only dynasty that claimed Sayyid lineage was the Fatamids who were also Shia and that claim also seems to be made up.

[StonyArabia]

That's a typical Iranocentrist propaganda by "neutral" scholars nothing more.

No it is not, Iranocentrist propaganda, most of the scholars and many are Western who agree he is not a Turk.


I have actually nothing against Persians but Pan-Iranists can't accept the truth that they were ruled by Turkic peoples since we migrated there. How do the hell do you imagine this Alberta?

Languages shift from one group to another, and hence why this not strange because his family switched from Kurdish to Turkic because they wanted to exert their political domain. This not strange at all if you look at the history of the world. His family also originated from Iranian Kurdistan, this not imagination.


Did the father of Shah Ismael fall in love with the language of Oghuz Turkish nomads and teached his son their language instead his Kurdish mother tongue?

I can fall in love with any language it does not mean that my bloodline is going to be traced to that particular group.


How can his father be Kurdish when Ismael couldn't even speak Kurdish? Shah Ismael declared himself at first as the Shah of Azerbaijan and then as Shah of Iran. The court languages of the Safavids was Azerbaijani Turkish anyway until Isfahan became the capital.

His ancestry was Kurdish plain and simple, but it did not teach his son Kurdish like many Turks in the West who speak only English but not Turkish, so it's nothing strange but rather quite common. Yes but Azeri Turkish was always seen as secondary language to Persians. The Safavids also never saw themselves as Turks, but as Persians and most importantly Iranians.

[Sky earth]

No it is not, Iranocentrist propaganda, most of the scholars and many are Western who agree he is not a Turk.



Languages shift from one group to another, and hence why this not strange because his family switched from Kurdish to Turkic because they wanted to exert their political domain. This not strange at all if you look at the history of the world. His family also originated from Iranian Kurdistan, this not imagination.



I can fall in love with any language it does not mean that my bloodline is going to be traced to that particular group.



His ancestry was Kurdish plain and simple, but it did not teach his son Kurdish like many Turks in the West who speak only English but not Turkish, so it's nothing strange but rather quite common. Yes but Azeri Turkish was always seen as secondary language to Persians. The Safavids also never saw themselves as Turks, but as Persians and most importantly Iranians.

Lol:picard1: Shah Ismael was bilingual as he spoke Azerbaijani Turkish and Persian. He had even a Turkic pen-name named Khatai in his Azeri poems. There is nothing Kurdish about this guy. Why is it so important for you that he was originally Kurdish?. Just because he doesn't fit in your Wahabi propaganda. If you would ask him today if he's a Persian or a Tork he would gave you the answer that he was a Tork just like all Safavid rulers. The Azerbaijani language was the court language until Isfahan becae the capital but that doesn't matter because the military was almost completely Qizilbash Turkic and the Turkic Qizilbashs had a major influence on the Safavid empire. Ismael is considered as a national hero for all Azeris and even most Turks see the Safavid empire as more Turkic than the Ottoman Arab empire who oppressed and killed the Turkmen Alevis just because they weren't backward Sunnis like your Wahabi Syrian friends. Just live with it that Ismael was Turkic and that most Turks don't support your Wahabi terrorist friends. retarded wannabe-Turanoid:picard2:

[StonyArabia]

^ Stop defaming you baboon. I stand with historical reality dumb fuck

[Kiyant]

Lol:picard1: Shah Ismael was bilingual as he spoke Azerbaijani Turkish and Persian. He had even a Turkic pen-name named Khatai in his Azeri poems. There is nothing Kurdish about this guy. Why is it so important for you that he was originally Kurdish?. Just because he doesn't fit in your Wahabi propaganda. If you would ask him today if he's a Persian or a Tork he would gave you the answer that he was a Tork just like all Safavid rulers. The Azerbaijani language was the court language until Isfahan becae the capital but that doesn't matter because the military was almost completely Qizilbash Turkic and the Turkic Qizilbashs had a major influence on the Safavid empire. Ismael is considered as a national hero for all Azeris and even most Turks see the Safavid empire as more Turkic than the Ottoman Arab empire who oppressed and killed the Turkmen Alevis just because they weren't backward Sunnis like your Wahabi Syrian friends. Just live with it that Ismael was Turkic and that most Turks don't support your Wahabi terrorist friends. retarded wannabe-Turanoid:picard2:

Thats pretty much hard to say neither is he or i a wahabi i also support the rebels and still like the ottoman empire.
And also "backward" sunni what?

[StonyArabia]

The only retard if you sky earth. Sky earth is clearly racist against Kurds and I am not. Heck I am even using real sources unlike his emotional outburst. Dumb ass the Ottomans were not Arabs this why they rebelled you dumb ass in 1916, but sadly my mother's people were allies of the stupid Turks. Good riddence the British fucked you up

[Sky earth]

^ Stop defaming you baboon. I stand with historical reality dumb fuck

Keep being butthurt over it that Azeris and Turkmens consider Shah Ismael as a national hero and that Shah Ismael was Turkic and wrote 1400 poem verses in his mother tongue and that most Turks don't support your Wahabi terrorist lovers. You don't stand with historical reality, you stand to your own historical propaganda because you can't live with it that political Shia Islam was founded by Azeri Turks

[Pjeter Pan]

You can't really classify a person by a painting of him. Unless its very detailed which this is not.

[Kiyant]

Keep being butthurt over it that Azeris and Turkmens consider Shah Ismael as a national hero and that Shah Ismael was Turkic and wrote 1400 poem verses in his mother tongue and that most Turks don't support your Wahabi terrorist lovers. You don't stand with historical reality, you stand to your own historical propaganda because you can't live with it that political Shia Islam was founded by Azeri Turks
Most people in Turkey support the rebels in syria :picard1:
But i agree that Shah Ismail was rather Azeri and not Kurdish.

[StonyArabia]

Keep being butthurt over it that Azeris and Turkmens consider Shah Ismael as a national hero and that Shah Ismael was Turkic and wrote 1400 poem verses in his mother tongue and that most Turks don't support your Wahabi terrorist lovers. You don't stand with historical reality, you stand to your own historical propaganda because you can't live with it that political Shia Islam was founded by Azeri Turks

LOL, Shia Islam was founded by Yemenites dumb ass, and he imported Arabs from Jebal Amal, Iraq and Southern Bahrain to teach him Shiaism. Another thing you numbnut Turk is that it was the Arabs who taught him the theology of Shiaism, don't be butthurt because it's the truth. I am not Wahabi dumb ass, you support an Arab nationalist who prosecutes the Syrian Turkmen and other non-Arab minorities and he is a Shia fundmentalist and ally of Hezbollah.

[Sky earth]

Thats pretty much hard to say neither is he or i a wahabi i also support the rebels and still like the ottoman empire.
And also "backward" sunni what?

Sorry but he supports the Sunni terrorist Syrian rebells who want to establish a stone age Sharia state for Syria. Can you imagine how the Shias and Alevis or other minorities will be treated in this regime? You can still like the Ottoman empire but don't forget that they massacred dozens of Turkmens just because they weren't Sunnis. I speak about the Wahabi Sunni rebells in Syria who are culturally backwards in my eyes.

[Kiyant]

Sorry but he supports the Sunni terrorist Syrian rebells who want to establish a stone age Sharia state for Syria. Can you imagine how the Shias and Alevis or other minorities will be treated in this regime? You can still like the Ottoman empire but don't forget that they massacred dozens of Turkmens just because they weren't Sunnis. I speak about the Wahabi Sunni rebells in Syria who are culturally backwards in my eyes.

Not every rebel is wahabi and i also dislike the jihadist but still support the secular moderate sunni rebels.

[Ice]

His grandfather was sunni, and turkmen as far as i know. This guy is maybe a hero in iran/azerbaijan. I don't like him. However i respect his contribution for turkish language.

[Sky earth]

LOL, Shia Islam was founded by Yemenites dumb ass, and he imported Arabs from Jebal Amal, Iraq and Southern Bahrain to teach him Shiaism. Another thing you numbnut Turk is that it was the Arabs who taught him the theology of Shiaism, don't be butthurt because it's the truth. I am not Wahabi dumb ass, you support an Arab nationalist who prosecutes the Syrian Turkmen and other non-Arab minorities and he is a Shia fundmentalist and ally of Hezbollah.

I mean for Iran. It was the Azeri Safavids who established Shia Islam as state religion in Iran. Azad is not the one who wants to establish a Sharia state for Syria and he's an Alawite not Shia. Fundamentalism is retarded whether it be Wahabi Sunni fundamentalism or Hezbollah Shia fundamentalism. I don't have much sympathies for a brutal dictator like Azad but a secular dicatorship is thousand times better than a Sharia dicatorship like most Syrian rebells want it.

[Sky earth]

Not every rebel is wahabi and i also dislike the jihadist but still support the secular moderate sunni rebels.

Yes but most rebells are sadly Islamic fundamentalists. The secular dictatorship will be overthron and the oppressing Sharia regime will beginn.

[Kiyant]

Yes but most rebells are sadly Islamic fundamentalists. The secular dictatorship will be overthron and the oppressing Sharia regime will beginn.

Assad and secular?
Who told you this Assad NEEDED to be secular for the single reason that he and his dictator family is Alawi and the most of the syrian popualtion is sunni.

[StonyArabia]

I mean for Iran. It was the Azeri Safavids who established Shia Islam as state religion in Iran. Azad is not the one who wants to establish a Sharia state for Syria and he's an Alawite not Shia. Fundamentalism is retarded whether it be Wahabi Sunni fundamentalism or Hezbollah Shia fundamentalism. I don't have much sympathies for a brutal dictator like Azad but a secular dicatorship is thousand times better than a Sharia dicatorship like most Syrian rebells want it.


Yes I know the Safavids established Shia Islam as state religion and let me remind by force. This why many Baluchis, Persians, and Kurds migrated to the Gulf nations or to India. That said the first Shia Caliphate and the most powerful and important one was done by Arabians, the Fatamids, they were not Turks and they were not Persians. Also Shiaism originated in Yemen, and it's theological principals were taught by the Arabs to the Safavids. Yes I know he is, but he is also an Arab nationalist who oppressed non-Arab minorities, and finally we agree on something. Both sides have proved to be disgusting what can I say.

[ariel]

Assad and secular?
Who told you this Assad NEEDED to be secular for the single reason that he and his dictator family is Alawi and the most of the syrian popualtion is sunni.

and these alawaites are the true syrians.

and yes, syria is secular state they not folowing the sharia law.

[Sky earth]

Assad and secular?
Who told you this Assad NEEDED to be secular for the single reason that he and his dictator family is Alawi and the most of the syrian popualtion is sunni.

Assad didn't need to be secular. He could also establish a Sharia state but he didn't do it. The non-Sunni population is a sizeable minority in Syria as only 60 % are Sunni muslims.

Sunni account for 59-60% of the population, while 13% are Shia (Alawite, Twelvers, and Ismailis combined),[116] 10% Christian[116] (the majority Antiochian Orthodox, the rest include Greek Catholic, Assyrian Church of the East, Armenian Orthodox, Protestants and other denominations), and 3% Druze.[116] Druze number around 500,000, and concentrate mainly in the southern area of Jabal al-Druze.[117]

I just wish for Syria that all people can live in a democratic country peaceful toegther regardless of whether they are Sunnis, Shias, Alevis, Christians or Atheists and that evryone respects the others believe.

[Sky earth]

Most people in Turkey support the rebels in syria :picard1:
But i agree that Shah Ismail was rather Azeri and not Kurdish.

No they don't:picard2:. Most Turks are neutral over the Syrian civil war and don't want that Turkey delivers guns for the rebells. Turks also don't support a Sharia state for Syria as our country has the lowest amount of Sharia supporters out of all muslim countries. Almost everyone in my surroundings says that the rebells are mainly fundamental Sunnis who want to establish a Sharia state in Syria.

[Proto-Shaman]

Iranid/Med. of Turkic type.