Haplogroup l2b, the Haplogroup that unites Scandinavians, Germans, British, Russians and Greeks

[RussiaPrussia]

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#I2

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-I2b.gif

opinions?

[Artek]

This haplogroup must predate arise of a "modern" cultures, since we can find separate branches in Celts, Slavs and Germanics.

Obviously, it's found in low frequencies anywhere, just in Germany somewhat managed to survive or got lower casualties than in other areas. The percentages in the article are too exagerrated (they say about I2a2-I2b peaking up to 20% in Central and Northern Germany - it's not true in any case,it reaches just around 10% in some areas), map seems to be more accurate in that matter.

And a second thing - the article consists unproven informations that I2a2's were a megalithic builders. Proven megalithic builders were I2a1, more connected with contemporary Sardinian I2.
I hope I've helped.

[Fire Haired]

This means nothing I2a2 is a Y DNa haplogroups which is passed down from father to son it only tell ur direct male line like a last name not ur full ancestry. There are many y DNa haplogroups that are found in Scandnavia, Germany, Greece, and Russia so what.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Just note, your thread is about I2a2 but your map is I2b

[Artek]

Just note, your thread is about I2a2 but your map is I2b
ISOGG changed a nomenclature but people are used to I2b instead of I2a2. Everything is right here.

[1stLightHorse]

This is my haplogroup....can someone tell me which area of Germany that is where it reaches highest frequency?

[Insuperable]

This is my haplogroup....can someone tell me which area of Germany that is where it reaches highest frequency?

Well just look at the OP to see where I2b is widespread. If you mean I2b1 specifically I am not sure, probably similar to the map above. Northern Germany probably.

[1stLightHorse]

This haplogroup must predate arise of a "modern" cultures, since we can find separate branches in Celts, Slavs and Germanics.

Obviously, it's found in low frequencies anywhere, just in Germany somewhat managed to survive or got lower casualties than in other areas. The percentages in the article are too exagerrated (they say about I2a2-I2b peaking up to 20% in Central and Northern Germany - it's not true in any case,it reaches just around 10% in some areas), map seems to be more accurate in that matter.

And a second thing - the article consists unproven informations that I2a2's were a megalithic builders. Proven megalithic builders were I2a1, more connected with contemporary Sardinian I2.
I hope I've helped.

Why do you think I1 is so high in Germany? Why do you think they survived the Neolithic invasions better in the North? Were they more warlike?

[Artek]

... Something was wrong either with forum or with my broadband connection

[Artek]

Why do you think I1 is so high in Germany? Why do you think they survived the Neolithic invasions better in the North? Were they more warlike?
I1 is probably late neolithic itself because it spread with eneolithic Corded Ware as a remnant from uncertain culture. And no, I1 is not so high in Germany, according to Eupedia's frequencies it's like 16 %, the same as R1a frequency.
We can rather exclude that I1's were in Germany before Neolithic period.

[1stLightHorse]

I1 is probably late neolithic itself because it spread with eneolithic Corded Ware as a remnant from uncertain culture. And no, I1 is not so high in Germany, according to Eupedia's frequencies it's like 16 %, the same as R1a frequency.
We can rather exclude that I1's were in Germany before Neolithic period.

16% ?!?! Wow, i thought it was up around 40% or so.

[Artek]

16% ?!?! Wow, i thought it was up around 40% or so.
It reaches such frequencies in some areas of Sweden, maybe Norway.

[Loki]

Note the relative absence in the most 'Slavic' regions.

[safinator]

Obviously, it's found in low frequencies anywhere, just in Germany somewhat managed to survive or got lower casualties than in other areas. The percentages in the article are too exagerrated (they say about I2a2-I2b peaking up to 20% in Central and Northern Germany - it's not true in any case,it reaches just around 10% in some areas), map seems to be more accurate in that matter.



It's above 10% only in Germany and Holland

TABLE (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181996/table/TB1/)


Note the relative absence in the most 'Slavic' regions.

It's an haplogroup connected with Germanic speakers mainly so makes sense, the hotspot around Moldova could be connected to Goths.

[Peikko]

It reaches such frequencies in some areas of Sweden, maybe Norway.

So is I1 in Finland neolithic??

[Loki]

It's an haplogroup connected with Germanic speakers mainly so makes sense, the hotspot around Moldova could be connected to Goths.

Agreed! And perhaps the spot in Russia connected to the Varangians? One can only speculate I guess.

[Hevo]

Agreed! And perhaps the spot in Russia connected to the Varangians? One can only speculate I guess.

Looks like it's being carried by the Mordvins/Chuvash(5/2.5% each).(According to Eupedia) Very interesting.

[Artek]

A bigger part of I1 in Slavic/Baltic countries is NOT GERMANIC, just finno-ugric or baltic (therefore present in Slavs and Balts/Finns), whereas certain clades of I1(I-P109 etc), R1b-U106 or R1a-Z284/L664 are exclusively Germanic and show coorelation with Germanic languages.


So is I1 in Finland neolithic??
Datation of Bothnian clades is like 3800 BCE, so I would say Neolithic. Even if the economy of such people was mesolithic due to the climate.

[Loki]

A part of I1 in Slavic/Baltic countries is NOT GERMANIC, just finno-ugric or baltic (therefore present in Slavs and Balts/Finns),

Or more likely: Slavs/Balts with old Germanic ancestry.

[Artek]

Or more likely: Slavs/Balts with old Germanic ancestry.
So they have killed off all R1b-U106's/germanic R1a's and assimilated only I1?

I1 is the only haplogroup with wide and stable distribution (around 5-10% but frequency doesn't count) in Slavic countries. In recent study in Bulgaria R1b-U106 was seldomly found, in some places it was absent - whereas I1 was found everywhere. Another recent study from Belarus also showed a stable distribution of I1 with no coorelation to the frequency of R1b(among which was also U106, as I assume).

I don't mean to slavicise or balticise haplogroup I1, what some people might say about me .
I just want to say that we have to be aware of Eupedia's generalisations and face the facts(SNP's in this matter).

[Temujin]

There was a migration from Scandinavia to South Baltic during mesolithic period. If I haplogroup is native to Europe only, then it could had arrived to southern Baltic from Scandinavia.

[Artek]

There was a migration from Scandinavia to South Baltic during mesolithic period. If I haplogroup is native to Europe only, then it could had arrived to southern Baltic from Scandinavia.
Maybe. But we need aDNA to prove that. Some old I's are also present in the Middle East, I2* as well.

[Peikko]

So they have killed off all R1b-U106's/germanic R1a's and assimilated only I1?

I1 is the only haplogroup with wide and stable distribution (around 5-10% but frequency doesn't count) in Slavic countries. In recent study in Bulgaria R1b-U106 was seldomly found, in some places it was absent - whereas I1 was found everywhere. Another recent study from Belarus also showed a stable distribution of I1 with no coorelation to the frequency of R1b(among which was also U106, as I assume).

I don't mean to slavicise or balticise haplogroup I1, what some people might say about me .
I just want to say that we have to be aware of Eupedia's generalisations and face the facts(SNP's in this matter).
Eupedia is a bit stupid, because it always tries to associate different sub-clades with meta ethnicities. It's clearly written by nationalists.

[Artek]

Eupedia is a bit stupid, because it always tries to associate different sub-clades with meta ethnicities. It's clearly written by nationalists.
Even with such flaws, Eupedia remains a good source of knowledge for people who start to learn about population genetics. Generalisation is needed for rookies to understand basics.

But if you know more than that, you can clearly see that whole picture is not so simple as it's stated there.

[Rudel]

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#I2

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-I2b.gif

opinions?

If I'm not mistaken, the spot in Southern Italy fits with the villages of Faeto and Celle di San Vito, due to a migration during the XIVth century of Francoprovençal speakers from the French/Swiss/Italian Alps (and they still speak it).
I guess the Sicilian elements originated with some Gallo-Italic migration.

The enclave centered around the Val d'Aran intrigues me too.

[Ouistreham]

Eupedia remains a good source of knowledge
No.
All material aired by Eupedia is of no value whatsoever.

[The King, I am]

This means nothing I2a2 is a Y DNa haplogroups which is passed down from father to son it only tell ur direct male line like a last name not ur full ancestry. There are many y DNa haplogroups that are found in Scandnavia, Germany, Greece, and Russia so what.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVmG_d3HKBA