Gay Pakistan: Where sex is available and relationships are difficult

[Loki]

Gay Pakistan: Where sex is available and relationships are difficult (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/23811826)

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/69446000/jpg/_69446942_rooftop624.jpg

Pakistan is not the kind of place that most people would associate with gay liberation. But some say the country is a great place to be gay - even describing the port city of Karachi as "a gay man's paradise".

Underground parties, group sex at shrines and "marriages of convenience" to members of the opposite sex are just some of the surprises that gay Pakistan has to offer. Under its veneer of strict social conformity, the country is bustling with same-sex activity.

Danyaal, as he's asked to be known, is a 50-something businessman who lives in an affluent part of Karachi, and uses his smartphone to organise Karachi's gay party scene.

"One of the first things I did online, maybe 12 years ago, was type in G - A - Y and hit search. Back then I found a group and made contact with 12 people in this city," he says.

"These days there are smartphone apps that use GPS to tell you how close you are to another gay person with an online profile. There are thousands of gay men online in Pakistan at any one time."

The party scene is big - so big, he jokes, that he rarely gets time to himself.

"If you want sex too, it's a gay man's paradise. If you want a relationship, that may be more difficult."

These invitation-only parties are a rare opportunity for gay men to be open about their sexuality.

Pakistani society is fiercely patriarchal. Pakistanis are expected to marry a member of the opposite sex, and the vast majority do.

The result is a culture of dishonesty and double lives, says researcher Qasim Iqbal.

"Gay men will make every effort to stop any investment in a same-sex relationship because they know that one day they will have to get married to a woman," he says.

"After getting married they will treat their wives well but they will continue to have sex with other men."

Sex between men occurs in some very public places - including, surprisingly, Karachi's busiest shrine.

Families go to the Abdullah Shah-Ghazi shrine to honour the holy man buried there and to ask for God's blessings, but it is also Karachi's biggest cruising ground.

Every Thursday evening, as the sun sets, men from across the city gather there. A tightly packed circle is formed and those in the centre of the circle are groped by those on the periphery.

To outsiders it looks like a writhing mass of men huddling around one another. Some even describe it as a "mysterious religious ceremony". For participants, it's anonymous group sex.

This kind of behaviour is, of course, not condoned by Pakistan's religious authorities.

Most Pakistanis view homosexuality as sinful. The vast majority of clerics interpret the Qoranic story of Lot as a clear indication that God condemns homosexual men. Some scholars go even further and recommend Sharia-based punishment for "men who have sex with men".

The shrine is far from the only place in Karachi where gay sex is freely available.

It is, for example, easy to buy from a malchi walah - a masseur who offers massage and "extras" for the equivalent of £5, or $7.80.

"We get important people - police, army officers and ministers too," says one masseur, Ahmed.

He claims to have slept with more than 3,000 men during his working life - despite having two wives and eight children.

One of his wives, Sumera, wears a burka and the niqab, but she has no objection to her husband's chosen profession and wishes more people would keep an open mind.

"I know he has sex. No problem. If he doesn't work how will the kids eat? I get angry when people call them names. People are stuck in their ways."

Sumera's position may appear surprising, but in fact it's not hard to understand, says Qasim Iqbal.

"In Pakistan men are discouraged from having girlfriends and so often, their first sexual experiences will be with male friends or cousins. This is often seen as a part of growing up and it can be overlooked by families - it's the idea that 'boys will be boys'," he says.

"Sex between men will be overlooked as long as no-one feels that tradition or religion are being challenged. At the end of it all, everyone gets married to a member of the opposite sex and nothing is spoken about."

Technically, homosexual acts are illegal in Pakistan. The British introduced laws criminalising what is described as sex "against the order of nature" in the colonial era. Sharia-based laws dating from the 1980s also lay down punishments for same-sex sexual activity.

In practice, though, these laws are rarely enforced, and the issue tends to be dealt with inside the family.

"There was an instance where two boys were caught having sex in a field," says Iqbal.

"The family tried to bribe the police with money because they didn't want the story going public. When the police wouldn't back down the family asked for one detail to be changed - they wanted their son to be presented as the active sexual partner. For them, their son being passive would be even more shameful."

In almost all cases charges will be dropped, Iqbal says, but the boys will be forced to get married by their families.

Just occasionally, though, Pakistani parents do reconcile themselves to children entering a long-term gay relationship.

Akbar and Ali are one such couple who have made things work, against the odds.

"Ali's family was run by a matriarch," recalls Akbar.

"His grandmother was the head of the house so I knew that winning her over would mean everything else would fall into place. I took the time to talk to her and convince her that I was a good person. That was first and foremost. It wasn't about 'coming out' in a formal sense. It's more important to convince Ali's family that I'm a good human being.

"She once gave me a hand-embroidered decorative cloth that she had made as a teenager. She said she was giving it to me because she knew I 'take care of things'. It was a kind gesture and a very personal kind of acceptance."

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/69446000/jpg/_69446946_ali_akbar624.jpg

Akbar and Ali have now set up home together with the support of their families. Akbar has a good relationship with Ali's mother.

"She comes to stay with us and I love watching soaps with her. At the end of the night she goes to her room and Ali and I will retire to our room. Two men sleeping in the same bed? Sure she knows what is going on. We don't have to have a big discussion about it."

Stories like this are, however, exceptionally rare. For many gay men in Pakistan, a heterosexual marriage and a life of anonymous groping is the long-term reality.

But life can be even more difficult for gay women. Expressions of female sexuality are shunned in the public sphere, even among heterosexuals. So how do gay women make their lives work?

In Lahore, twenty-something lesbian couple Beena and Fatima have come up with an inventive way to stay together.

Beena, although not publicly "out", says she is optimistic about the future. "I think we'll have a marriage of convenience. I know some gay guys and maybe we'll do a deal so we put in money together and they have one portion of the house and we'll have another portion. We may as well do that."

Fatima, who contributes to an invitation-only online gay support group, believes it's only "a matter of time" before Pakistan begins to debate gay rights openly, and people declare their homosexuality with pride.

"You can't stay in the closet forever. You have to come out. It's inevitable," she says.

Beena is less hopeful.

"Gay rights in America came after women had basic rights. You don't see that in Pakistan. You are not allowed a difference of opinion here. My father is a gentleman but I wouldn't put it past him to put a bullet through my head. I'm all for being 'true to myself' but I don't want to die young," she says.

"I think it's selfish for me to come out and campaign for gay rights now. It's selfish to the women in my family who are fighting for education and the right to marry the man of their dreams, or not to marry at all."

It may take a generation for any real change to occur - even liberal Pakistanis tend to regard sectarian violence and economic instability as more pressing issues. But there will still be private spaces where gay Pakistanis can express their sexuality openly.

[Hurrem sultana]

lol

[Loki]

lol

Knew you'd like this article :D

[1stLightHorse]

Gay Pakistan: Where sex is available and relationships are difficult (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/23811826)





Families go to the Abdullah Shah-Ghazi shrine to honour the holy man buried there and to ask for God's blessings, but it is also Karachi's biggest cruising ground.






Shirk.

[Fortis in Arduis]

In India, where public opinion holds that homosexuality does not exist, I was cruised by a man on the Delhi metro, in a most sleazy fashion, in full public view, asking me the most personal questions in English!

Some years before I noticed one evening in Mysore, taking an evening promenade in a public park, that men were gathering together and doing what repressed (and also open) homosexuals do in the UK. They were 'cottaging', that is, looking for sex in public places. I made a hasty retreat to my hotel.

As for Morocco, the least I say, the better. When will the world grow up and accept that some people are homosexual? It seems that those countries which deny homosexuality develop the most unpleasant homosexual sub-cultures. All these manifestations such as marriages of convenience should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

[arcticwolf]

LOL

So much for the fear of God's wrath! LOL

[Grenzland]

"In Pakistan men are discouraged from having girlfriends and so often, their first sexual experiences will be with male friends or cousins. This is often seen as a part of growing up and it can be overlooked by families - it's the idea that 'boys will be boys'," he says.

:blink:

[Equilibrium]

Too gay, stopped reading. :eek:

[cally]

:lol:

[Shah-Jehan]

:lol:

I've never heard of this, it's false:lol:

[Loki]

I've never heard of this, it's false:lol:

Why would BBC lie about this? :confused:

[Shah-Jehan]

Why would BBC lie about this? :confused:

It's totally false...It's just rumours...

[Loki]

It's totally false...It's just rumours...

:picard2:

[Hàkon]

I've never heard of this, it's false:lol:

I take it you want to keep this homosexual paradise to yourselves, in which case you have my understanding. Party on, my freaky son.

[CrystalMaiden]

Shirk.

How is it taking it up the poopper "giving partners to God"?

[Moonbird]

I think the number of gay men must be high in countries where girls hide their bodies in ugly burqas.

[Loki]

I think the number of gay men must be high in countries where girls hide their bodies in ugly burqas.

It's true. Homosexuality is very common among Arabs, for example.

[Loki]

bump

[noman.rasheed]

Pakistan's fashion industry is full of gays and lesbians.

But I don't agree to the whole article.

[noman.rasheed]

I think the number of gay men must be high in countries where girls hide their bodies in ugly burqas.

That means you have never seen Pakistan where you could find girls in bikini on French beach, Karachi, mix swimming, underground night clubs, sex before marriage, girls and guys hanging out whole nite and having sheesha ...

[dude]

This is normal in Islam countries. Don't you know that?

[noman.rasheed]

This is normal in Islam countries. Don't you know that?

Yeah :rolleyes:

[Shah-Jehan]

That means you have never seen Pakistan where you could find girls in bikini on French beach, Karachi, mix swimming, underground night clubs, sex before marriage, girls and guys hanging out whole nite and having sheesha ...
ye pardeshi ka dimaagh ajeeb heh...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Pakistan's fashion industry is full of gays and lesbians.

But I don't agree to the whole article.

Oh, C'mon now, bugger!

[noman.rasheed]

ye pardeshi ka dimaagh ajeeb heh...

in ko koe ek gay mil haye to kehte hai k pura Pakistan gay hai aur koe ek burqe ma mil jaye to kehte hain ke poore pakistan ka ye haal hai. aur samjhao to kehte hain k hume sab pata hai :picard1:

[Tooting Carmen]

By the look of it, it is mostly some middle-class urbanites involved.

[noman.rasheed]

Oh, C'mon now, bugger!

I am not gay and none of my friend. So, better ask someone who deal in that.

[Loki]

This is normal in Islam countries. Don't you know that?

True. I met gay Moroccans in London.

[Chaya]

True. I met gay Moroccans in London.

Only in the West!

[Loki]

Only in the West!

No. There are lots in Morocco. They just don't make it public.

[Chaya]

No. There are lots in Morocco. They just don't make it public.
May Allah damn them! allah protect us! :mad:

[Loki]

May Allah damn them! allah protect us! :mad:

... and you said Islam was the religion of peace?!

[Chaya]

... and you said Islam was the religion of peace?!
Yeah! but Homosexuality is a moral disorder. and is dangerous for the health of the individuals and for the society. It is disgraceful, It degrades a person. "men should be men"

[DarkSecret]

I've never heard of this, it's false:lol:

Have you heard Iranian gays come to Turkey not to be hung?

[Tooting Carmen]

Have you heard Iranian gays come to Turkey not to be hung?

They don't want to be hung one way, but are very much hung in another way.:)

[Jägerstaffel]

Yeah! but Homosexuality is a moral disorder. and is dangerous for the health of the individuals and for the society. It is disgraceful, It degrades a person. "men should be men"

What a disgusting thing to say.

[Mortimer]

i wonder why gays exist, what is the biological function of being gay. why nature produced gays, it seems gays existed at all times in all societies more or less in the open or hidden. i think they should be tolerated but im not for equality of sexual lifestyles, i dont think a gay lifestyle is equally to a heterosexual lifestyle, i dont think homosexuality should become part of the norm, but unfortunately it did become, they started with demanding that they shouldnt be killed and now the military, the churches, and everyone is out at gay parades to celebrate their lifestyles and that they are proud to live that way. i think it is immoral and perversion but then again i think everyone should be allowed to be a pervert if he doesnt harm others, im a pervert too, i wank and watch porn and im also immoral in other ways. i dont think they should be persecuted but i also dont think they should be taken as norm or as other side of the coin of the norm. gay and hetero is not the same in my opinion.

[Arcadefire]

Being gay in a muslim country? nI applaud them. None of you guys would have the balls to come out of the closet had you been in their shoes. Homosexuality is real.... you mothafuckers need to deal with it. Actually you dont, because it probably does not concern you where a guy chooses to stick his dick in.

[Arcadefire]

Most people who go out of their way to talk shit about gays are only indirectly projecting the uncertainty of their sexual preferences.

[Mortimer]

Being gay in a muslim country? nI applaud them. None of you guys would have the balls to come out of the closet had you been in their shoes. Homosexuality is real.... you mothafuckers need to deal with it. Actually you dont, because it probably does not concern you where a guy chooses to stick his dick in.

actually if it would stay at that, i wouldnt mind it but it goes far beyond that, there is social engineering to modell the society, and one part of it is that gay is a family or two gays and a adopted child are a normal family like mum,dad and biological kid. it is the way to destroy what a family is and to confuse us about what family is, the next development might be that two guys one female is a family like monogamy etc. or other stuff. it affects societies, the world and the future in which our descendants will live in, and developments etc. it is not just about where a gay sticks his cock in, for that you dont need gay parades or gay marriage, gay adoption etc. he can have a sex partner and fuck him if he wants, but why demand special rights etc. the only right they should have is not being abused, or beaten up or insulted etc. for their life, i mean not harassed, but to create a culture around it with special quotas, rights, and such is wrong

[Arcadefire]

Well let me put it this way. In a 3rd world country where a huge chunk of population do not have access to basic health care and clean water, and education to basic birth control (look at the population) , being worried about homos prancing around freely should be the last of the government and peoples problems.

Social implication of gays adopting babies ?
Bro, you realize the number of orphans in India/Pakistan probably could do with being brought in a household (albeit not your traditional one). Being raised by gay people cant be any more detrimental to the mentality of of a child than being raised by dead beat , divorced, abusive parents.

[Mortimer]

Well let me put it this way. In a 3rd world country where a huge chunk of population do not have access to basic health care and clean water, and education to basic birth control (look at the population) , being worried about homos prancing around freely should be the last of the government and peoples problems.

Social implication of gays adopting babies ?
Bro, you realize the number of orphans in India/Pakistan probably could do with being brought in a household (albeit not your traditional one). Being raised by gay people cant be any more detrimental to the mentality of of a child than being raised by dead beat , divorced, abusive parents.

abusive parents get their kid taken away. and it is about principles. that a two gays are a family just like a male and a female, call me backward but i stick to traditional definition of family and dont want confusion about what a family is.

[Mortimer]

also if it applies to heterosexuals that their country is poor and they shouldnt be worried about homosexuality it also applies to gay, how they can demand gay rights in a country where they have no clean water is their rights have priority, you see it works both ways

[DarkSecret]

Family thing should be destroyed and we should find another way to breed...

[rashka]

A tightly packed circle is formed and those in the centre of the circle are groped by those on the periphery.
Just groped? :Pruegelknabe:

[cally]

I suspect they'd do it anyway :confused:

[noman.rasheed]

May Allah damn them! allah protect us! :mad:

I didn't expect this from you. You were saying me to have a patience and now loosing it by yourself, amazing!
Sister, these people are human too, if u wanna change them love them. :love0033:

[CordedWhelp]

Family thing should be destroyed and we should find another way to breed...

This is exactly the sentiment the powers-that-be want people to adopt...

Dehumanize the natural order of humanity...make it appear "intellectually appealing"...and have folks embrace the notion of the State rearing children and ensuring where their loyalties will reside.

The more this is accepted, the more love truly waxes cold...

[Petros Houhoulis]

May Allah damn them! allah protect us! :mad:

Unless if you go and blow them up, Allah won't do anything. Look at how the West is screwing the Muzzies all over the planet: 500.000 children died of starvation in Iraq before the Iraq war, because of sanctions, and another million or so died during and after the war because of Yankees shooting at them, Al-Qaeda blowing them up, collateral damage, e.t.c. e.t.c. This is only in Iraq!

Allah doesn't give a shit! (Assuming that he exists, as you do!)

[Petros Houhoulis]

Yeah! but Homosexuality is a moral disorder. and is dangerous for the health of the individuals and for the society. It is disgraceful, It degrades a person. "men should be men"

Basically, being a Muslim is unhealthier than being a Homosexual. Countless explosions prove this!

[Petros Houhoulis]

I am not gay and none of my friend. So, better ask someone who deal in that.

How do you know if all of your friend are not gay? Did you ask them in private? Chances are, you'll be surprised!

[Petros Houhoulis]

abusive parents get their kid taken away. and it is about principles. that a two gays are a family just like a male and a female, call me backward but i stick to traditional definition of family and dont want confusion about what a family is.

You are lying. There are hundreds of Gypsies in Greece who send their children to beg on the streets instead of school, all of them should be qualified as abusive parents, but none is taking their children - unless if they are returned to their natural parents, of course!

[The King, I am]

I've never heard of this, it's false:lol:

Your shitty country is a gay man's paradise

[noman.rasheed]

How do you know if all of your friend are not gay? Did you ask them in private? Chances are, you'll be surprised!

Yeah, being with them for the last 15 years and don't know about them.

[Mortimer]

You are lying. There are hundreds of Gypsies in Greece who send their children to beg on the streets instead of school, all of them should be qualified as abusive parents, but none is taking their children - unless if they are returned to their natural parents, of course!

Quiete the heavy accussation. Children are taken away from abusive parents, thats a fact, gypsies are special case because they are minority on fringe of society, no one cares whats going on there.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Yeah, being with them for the last 15 years and don't know about them.

People do not fully understand, and rarely express their sexuality before they become adults. Furthermore, Homosexuals in oppressive societies often hide their homosexual tendencies out of shame and fear.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Quiete the heavy accussation. Children are taken away from abusive parents, thats a fact, gypsies are special case because they are minority on fringe of society, no one cares whats going on there.

Which means we shouldn't give a shit about what you are doing, or what other people are doing at you. Next time I hear some Golden Dawn offspring attacks you, I'm gonna write "Oh gypsies are special case because they are minority on fringe of society, no one cares whats going on there"...

What do you think, should I give a shit if somebody is breaking your head, because you are a Gypsy?

[Mortimer]

People do not fully understand, and rarely express their sexuality before they become adults. Furthermore, Homosexuals in oppressive societies often hide their homosexual tendencies out of shame and fear.

encouraging homosexual tendencies could make lots of heterosexuals gay though, because im sure that lots of heterosexuals have some possible homosexual or bisexual tendencies, and if encouraged would be homosexual but otherwise heterosexual

[Mortimer]

Which means we shouldn't give a shit about what you are doing, or what other people are doing at you. Next time I hear some Golden Dawn offspring attacks you, I'm gonna write "Oh gypsies are special case because they are minority on fringe of society, no one cares whats going on there"...

What do you think, should I give a shit if somebody is breaking your head, because you are a Gypsy?

Why would i give a shit if you give a shit, you are just a greek monkey you are not different then golden dawn, and i dont want you to care, i dont care if a german skinhead kills a greek kebab monkey, i dont need your symphaty hairy greek ape. and it is different to have biological children and adopt children, those are gypsy children from gypsy parents but no one would give a white child those gypsies for adoption so they can abuse it. gypsies live according to their rules and if you want to kill go ahead monkey greek the world is shaming you fucking apes anyways, you shouldnt get any subsitutes of money from EU either, you should be left to die.

[Petros Houhoulis]

encouraging homosexual tendencies could make lots of heterosexuals gay though, because im sure that lots of heterosexuals have some possible homosexual or bisexual tendencies, and if encouraged would be homosexual but otherwise heterosexual

Not really. People are born homosexuals or heterosexuals:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J04bRx2MGi4

[Petros Houhoulis]

Why would i give a shit if you give a shit, you are just a Greek monkey you are not different then golden dawn, and i dont want you to care, i dont care if a German skinhead kills a Greek kebab monkey, i dont need your symphaty hairy Greek ape. and it is different to have biological children and adopt children, those are gypsy children from gypsy parents but no one would give a white child those gypsies for adoption so they can abuse it. Gypsies live according to their rules and if you want to kill go ahead monkey Greek the world is shaming you fucking apes anyways, you shouldnt get any subsitutes of money from EU either, you should be left to die.

The Gypsies should learn to live according to the societal norm and not as petty thieves and beggars.

You are the one who gets subsidies to live, not Greece.

You should be careful not to say that the Gypsies have a right to have their own laws. National laws should be applied to everybody equally, and nobody should be an exception.

[Mortimer]

The Gypsies should learn to live according to the societal norm and not as petty thieves and beggars.

If they get a fair chance yes, if they are discriminated they need to find other ways to survive and nothing wrong with guarding their culture or preserve their ethnic group and traditions. you are assimilation policies are fascist, and even if they assimilate they still would be gypsies and second or third, fourth class people never truly equal and need to hide their roots etc and accept humiliation and such



You are the one who gets subsidies to live, not Greece.

Read the newspapers



You should be careful not to say that the Gypsies have a right to have their own laws. National laws should be applied to everybody equally, and nobody should be an exception.

No Gypsies have a right to their own laws. They live according to their own rules, but of course human rules like not killing, stealing, etc. should be applied to all people and no one has the right to harm another, but cultural differences are to be expected and gypsies are not immigrants they are long enough their and have a right to their cultural rules, they dont need to live like greeks or assimilate

[Petros Houhoulis]

If they get a fair chance yes, if they are discriminated they need to find other ways to survive and nothing wrong with guarding their culture or preserve their ethnic group and traditions. you are assimilation policies are fascist, and even if they assimilate they still would be gypsies and second or third, fourth class people never truly equal and need to hide their roots etc and accept humiliation and such

The Gypsies cannot get fair chances if they do not attend school. If that is assimilation for you, I am sorry, there is no other solution. Nobody is preventing them from keeping their own culture, as long as this culture is not stealing and begging at a professional level.

Many Gypsies have managed to assimilate into the Greek society, and few people treat those who have assimilated as inferiors. There is an entire village near, mine, Monovrisi, which is composed of assimilated Gypsies, and they have the highest ratio of university graduates per settlement population all over Greece. The Greek educational system did not discriminate against them.


Read the newspapers

Greece is receiving loans from the E.U., and subsidies to balance the losses incurred by not having tariffs at imported goods from the E.U. If they want to cut the subsidies, they should also accept tariffs in their products, which they won't...

On the other hand, we all know about your handicap and the subsidies related to it.


No Gypsies have a right to their own laws. They live according to their own rules, but of course human rules like not killing, stealing, etc. should be applied to all people and no one has the right to harm another, but cultural differences are to be expected and Gypsies are not immigrants they are long enough their and have a right to their cultural rules, they dont need to live like Greeks or assimilate

Nobody speaks of cultural differences. Nobody forces the Gypsies to stop using their language or dance their dances or whatever. In fact many Gypsy singers have brought their culture into mainstream culture like the blacks did in America, and nobody has been trying to block them for several generations now. Assimilation is not to forget all of your past, but simply to conform to some simple societal norms, like cleanliness.

Most Gypsies have actually complied to those societal norms, and this is why the general population does not consider them Gypsies anymore. The problem is with those who still live in settlements and not homes. It is not that the Greek state didn't try. They handed over to them brand new homes, and they chose to sell them and maintain their nomadic lifestyle. Those people are the problem, not those who have a certain Gypsy heritage or culture...

[noman.rasheed]

People do not fully understand, and rarely express their sexuality before they become adults. Furthermore, Homosexuals in oppressive societies often hide their homosexual tendencies out of shame and fear.

Ok, I don't know gays and I have no problem with gays.

[Chaya]

I didn't expect this from you. You were saying me to have a patience and now loosing it by yourself, amazing!
Sister, these people are human too, if u wanna change them love them. :love0033:

"We also sent Lut : He said to his people : "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81

"What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, and leave the wives your Lord created for you? Nay, but ye are forward folk." Qur'an 26:165

[The.Mask]

Hope USA send some nuclear weapons over Pakistan.

[Sidi Atlas]

No. There are lots in Morocco. They just don't make it public.

Not more than in any other country. But it's true that homosexuality is a taboo subject. Though homosexuals are not prosecuted in the country and people don't care as long as it is not too public. Morocco seems to be a popular destination for gay tourists, so it shouldn't be that bad.

But again it's not all fine and dandy with gay rights in Morocco. Not so long ago there was a celebration of a gay marriage in a small town with a showy procession trough the streets and the video of this event was posted on youtube ... that was a bit too much, it caused some protests and the involved men were arrested and accused of “lewd or unnatural acts with an individual of the same sex” and "selling alcohol illegally". They received a sentence of a few months in prison (not a real punishment if you know what happens in a prison with only men :p ), funnily it was selling alcohol illegally that was more severely punished.

[noman.rasheed]

"We also sent Lut : He said to his people : "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81

"What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, and leave the wives your Lord created for you? Nay, but ye are forward folk." Qur'an 26:165

How about if someone's heart get changed?

[Shah-Jehan]

Your shitty country is a gay man's paradise

No you Moroccan Khar, I am not even from pakistan, hamitic garbage...

[Chaya]

How about if someone's heart get changed?
im not talking about someone! but " And it is He who accepts repentance from his servants and pardons misdeeds, and He knows what you do. "
Surat Ash-Shuraa - 25

[Jägerstaffel]

I didn't expect this from you. You were saying me to have a patience and now loosing it by yourself, amazing!
Sister, these people are human too, if u wanna change them love them. :love0033:

Why change them at all?

[Jägerstaffel]

encouraging homosexual tendencies could make lots of heterosexuals gay though, because im sure that lots of heterosexuals have some possible homosexual or bisexual tendencies, and if encouraged would be homosexual but otherwise heterosexual

This is confusing to me. Why do people believe that others could be "encouraged" to be gay? Are they that easily persuaded? I don't think anyone could force me to change my sexuality.

[Jägerstaffel]

Hope USA send some nuclear weapons over Pakistan.

Don't they already have plenty of their own?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Stockpile

[Svipdag]

Instead of burdening wives with unloving unfaithful husbands who, resenting being obliged to marry against their will, are likely to be abusive, it would be better if gay Pakistanis secretly got themselves vasectomised and then, when the family insisted they marry, had their fertility tested on some pretext (such as an athletic injury or a fight) and opted out of marriage because they cannot have children.

[Óttar]

There was a Pakistani who owned a convenience store in my hometown. He was always flirting with my mother even though he had a wife and kid. For some reason, my mom seems to think he may have been homosexual as he always had this smaller Pakistani attendant near him, and I guess she saw something.

I suppose there are discreet ways for homosexuals to maintain relationships. Under the pretext I presume, of a close male friendship.

[Svipdag]

There was a Pakistani who owned a convenience store in my hometown. He was always flirting with my mother even though he had a wife and kid. For some reason, my mom seems to think he may have been homosexual as he always had this smaller Pakistani attendant near him, and I guess she saw something.

I suppose there are discreet ways for homosexuals to maintain relationships. Under the pretext I presume, of a close male friendship.

I should think so. This is a way it is often done in our society.

[noman.rasheed]

im not talking about someone! but " And it is He who accepts repentance from his servants and pardons misdeeds, and He knows what you do. "
Surat Ash-Shuraa - 25

By the term "someone" I meant those who are gays. Anyone could be changed no matter what the past he/she holds.

[Mortimer]

This is confusing to me. Why do people believe that others could be "encouraged" to be gay? Are they that easily persuaded? I don't think anyone could force me to change my sexuality.

you are a grown up man in a still mostly heterosexual society, but teenagers could be made gay and people could be made insecure about their sexuality in many pre-christian cultures it was common for males to have sex with both genders, greece, japan, india etc. but i think even back then a family was clearly male and female but they had just sex with boys for recreation and most boys i doubt they were gay, but had to get some love from older men. depends on the society you are in, but we could easily live in a society where it is normal to be gay or where more people are gay then now

[The King, I am]

No you Moroccan Khar, I am not even from pakistan, hamitic garbage...

getting agree shah jihad?

[Petros Houhoulis]

you are a grown up man in a still mostly heterosexual society, but teenagers could be made gay and people could be made insecure about their sexuality in many pre-christian cultures it was common for males to have sex with both genders, greece, japan, india etc. but i think even back then a family was clearly male and female but they had just sex with boys for recreation and most boys i doubt they were gay, but had to get some love from older men. depends on the society you are in, but we could easily live in a society where it is normal to be gay or where more people are gay then now

I've told you that Gays are born Gays:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J04bRx2MGi4

[noman.rasheed]

Why change them at all?

By changing I mean, those who are Muslims and gays.

For more details read the story of Prophet Lot/Lut (P.B.U.H.).

[Mortimer]

I've told you that Gays are born Gays:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J04bRx2MGi4

just because you "told" me doesnt mean it is true. or that you are authority which i need to listen to

[Petros Houhoulis]

just because you "told" me doesn't mean it is true. or that you are authority which i need to listen to

I didn't tell you to listen to me. I wrote you to see the goddamned video where scientists and "sociologists" discuss about the issue. These people are authorities, but you never watch any documentaries to enlighten your mind. You believe that White scientists are biased against non-White people, but what about White Gay Biologists, are they biased against fellow Gay people or what???

WATCH THE GODDAMNED VIDEO, OR AT LEAST EXPLAIN WHY YOUR GODDAMNED OPINION IS RIGHT AND MINE IS WRONG. CAN YOU DO IT, EVER, OR YOU'LL JUST USE YOUR FAVORITE MOTTO: "I DON'T READ SCHOLARLY OPINIONS OR SEE DOCUMENTARIES, BECAUSE THE SCIENTISTS WHO MAKE THEM ARE BIASED FOR THE "X" OR "Y" REASON"???

HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU JUDGE THAT THOSE BOOKS AND VIDEOS ARE BIASED, WITHOUT EVEN TO SEE THEM?????

[Mortimer]

I didn't tell you to listen to me. I wrote you to see the goddamned video where scientists and "sociologists" discuss about the issue. These people are authorities, but you never watch any documentaries to enlighten your mind. You believe that White scientists are biased against non-White people, but what about White Gay Biologists, are they biased against fellow Gay people or what???

WATCH THE GODDAMNED VIDEO, OR AT LEAST EXPLAIN WHY YOUR GODDAMNED OPINION IS RIGHT AND MINE IS WRONG. CAN YOU DO IT, EVER, OR YOU'LL JUST USE YOUR FAVORITE MOTTO: "I DON'T READ SCHOLARLY OPINIONS OR SEE DOCUMENTARIES, BECAUSE THE SCIENTISTS WHO MAKE THEM ARE BIASED FOR THE "X" OR "Y" REASON"???

HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU JUDGE THAT THOSE BOOKS AND VIDEOS ARE BIASED, WITHOUT EVEN TO SEE THEM?????

1.How do you know that i NEVER watch any documentaries?
2.You talk aggressive in aggressive speech to force your point
3.I watched your video, it is about if you can spot gay people by looks and you cant, being effeminate doesnt equal being gay
4.I explained already my position, i wont explain my position a thousand times the same for a grco donkey fucker
5.You are White, Grk and Gay

[Odin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvehhXaFh8U

[Thanas Django]

"In Pakistan men are discouraged from having girlfriends and so often, their first sexual experiences will be with male friends or cousins. This is often seen as a part of growing up and it can be overlooked by families - it's the idea that 'boys will be boys'," he says.



:lol:

[Thanas Django]

.

I like your prison suit.

[Petros Houhoulis]

1.How do you know that i NEVER watch any documentaries?
2.You talk aggressive in aggressive speech to force your point
3.I watched your video, it is about if you can spot gay people by looks and you cant, being effeminate doesnt equal being gay
4.I explained already my position, i wont explain my position a thousand times the same for a grco donkey fucker
5.You are White, Grk and Gay

Why would someone be effeminate, if he is not gay?
The documentary speaks about Gays, and yes, the most of them are effeminate.

[sean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MC4l_lHmz0

Homosexuality in Pakistan comes from the fact that boys and girls are separated their entire lives, so the boys never set appropriate boundaries for affection and bonding.

They basically go through all the normal stages of sexual development, but since women aren't visible in their societies and are off-limits, they end up going through these stages with other men which in turn leads to them fucking each other.

Their justification is that their behaviour is not homosexuality since homosexuality is when two men love each other. Their defense is that they don't love each other, they're just having sex with each other. You don't get gay pride parades in Karachi.

Pakistan legally recognises male trannies as "third sex" (hijra) but does not require them to undergo surgical or chemical castration. They are tolerated and have special protections under the law. They had third gender passports before even the west had them. The HIV rate of Pakistani hijras is 27.6% compared to the national average of 0.1%.

However, they are mostly looked down upon in Pakistan. They won't go around asking for special privileges like their own bathrooms because they know they will be beaten and left to hang from trees.

https://i.imgur.com/78K2S38.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nimdPqT.jpg

During the colonial period, British authorities attempted to eradicate hijras, (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48442934) whom they saw as a breach of public decency. The Victorians and Edwardians had the notion of 'inverts', where it was viewed as a mental illness as a pathological inversion of heterosexuality and sexual roles.

[DarkSecret]

In the past I met a Pakistani in Turkey. He asked if I had a girlfriend or no and then I said no. After that he asked me if I was gay or not. I didn't understand why I had to be gay because I had no girlfriend? :/