Wtf is uniting Turkic "mtDNA X" with Native American "mtDNA X and Y-Dna R1"?

[Proto-Shaman]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Haplogroup_X_%28mtDNA%29.PNG
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=36852&d=1377676826

So, its your turn...

[Peikko]

Turan found America.

[Proto-Shaman]

Turan found America.
I fucking love this race...

[Equilibrium]

:picard1:

[Proto-Shaman]

Here is a possible answer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLV9A8P00bw

[Artek]

That's the first time I hear of R1* (M173) being so widespread among Native Americans and being found among Austronesians and Australian Aborigines. That's very interesting indeed.

I can conceive that R1* reached the Americas during the same migration as Q1a3a. Haplogroups N, O, P, Q, R are supposed to have originated in Central Asia during the Ice Age. Q and R are both descended from P. It is easy to see how nomadic tribes belonging to Q and R1* could have intermingled during their migrations around the Central Asian steppe, and some would eventually travel through Siberia and reach the Americas.

However there are also theories that the Americas was settled in (at least) two successive waves, the earliest dating possibly from as much as 30,000 years ago, and the latest around 10,000 years ago. Archaeology supports this scenario. The oldest skeletons in the Americas look distinctly more Europoid in their traits. Mongoloid features suddenly replaced them from the time of the Clovis culture, starting approximately 13,000 years ago.

But not all Amerindians look the same. Some do look more European than East Asian, particularly tribes of the north-eastern USA and eastern Canada, like the Iroquois and the Hurons. This is where it gets fascinating, because this is justly the region where mtDNA haplogroup X2 is found. And now it appears that Y-DNA R1* matches the same region.Compare the X2 map with the above R map. The distribution is similar, though the frequency is very different. Where R1* exceeds 60% or even 80% of the paternal lineages, X2 makes at best 4% of the population. There are surely other Europoid mtDNA lineages, but if they are too similar to those found in Europe (e.g. one of the hundreds of subclades of H) it won't be possible to distinguish them from the lineages brought to North America by the Europeans. Chances are that the majority of European-looking mtDNA lineages found among Native Americans from the North-East of North America are of Amerindian origin and not European.

Haplogroup Q1a3a is probably more recent than R1*. In Siberia it is found almost exclusively among Mongoloid people, who carry similar maternal lineages as those found in the Americas (A, B, C, D).

[Peikko]

So Keltics are basically amerindians.

[Artek]

So Keltics are basically amerindians.
http://www.harbornet.com/folks/theedrich/hive/KManFace.jpg
Kennewick Man - Keltic-Nordoid with Cromagnoid :rolleyes:

[Proto-Shaman]

I read this interesting post a few years ago, as well.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030544030700091X
DNA in contemporary "Native American" population samples has shown haplogroup X only in certain northern peoples - - Ojibwa, Sioux, Nuu-Chah-Nulth, Yakama--and in the Navajo, a tribe previously thought to be genetically related to the Apache and other Athapaskan-speaking populations of the Northwest.
http://home.earthlink.net/~walterk12/Celtic/WhiteIndians.html
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/x
Sub-group X2 appears to have undergone extensive population expansion and dispersal around or soon after the last glacial maximum, about 21,000 years ago. It is more strongly present in the Near East, the Caucasus, and Mediterranean Europe; and somewhat less strongly present in the rest of Europe. Particular concentrations appear inGeorgia (8%), the Orkney Islands (in Scotland), (7%) and amongst the Israeli Druze community (27%).
The main occurrence of X in Asia discovered so far is in the Altay people in Southwestern Siberia,[10] and detailed examination[4] has shown that the Altaian sequences are all almost identical (haplogroup X2e)
Genetic studies and researchers show, "the analysis of the tribal structure of Southern Altaians has shown that the present-day Altaians have retained their native language and ethnic identity. They have begun to mix with other ethnic groups (mostly Russians and Kazakhs) only recently, so the interethnic admixture is estimated to be <5% (Luzina 1987; Osipova et al. 1997). The haplogroup X mtDNAs have not been found in populations of central Asia, including Kazakhs, Uighurs, and Kirghizs (Comas et al. 1998). Since the frequency of haplogroup X in Russians is extremely low (3 of 336; Orekhov et al. 1999; Malyarchuk and Derenko 2000; authors’ unpublished data), the recent European admixture cannot explain the presence of haplogroup X in the Altaians. Hence, the results of the present study allow us to suggest that haplogroup X was the part of the ancestral gene pool for Altaian populations, being found both in northern and southern Altaians."[11] (Derenko, Miroslava V.; T. Grzybowski; B.A. Malyarchuk; J. Czarny; D. Miścicka-Śliwka; and Ilia A. Zakharov (2010). "The Presence of Mitochondrial Haplogroup X in Altaians from South Siberia".American Journal of Human Genetics (69(1)) 69 (1): 237–241. doi:10.1086/321266. PMC 1226041. PMID 11410843.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_X_(mtDNA)
In addition, these same researchers have detailed that the mtDNA haplogroup X haplotype present in the Altaians of Siberia is intermediate between Native Americans clades and that of Europeans. As a Russian research group observed, "American Indian and European haplogroup X mtDNAs ... are distantly related to each other". They propose however not an early European colonization of America, but that Altaians contributed to migrants bound for Europe and America; "The network further suggests that the Altaian X haplotypes occupy the intermediate position between European and American Indian haplogroup X mtDNA lineages"[11]
One theory of how the X Haplogroup ended up in North America is it migrated from central Asia along with the A, B, C, and D Haplogroups, from an ancestor from the Altai Region of Central Asia.[12] Two sequences of haplogroup X2 were sampled further east of Altai among the Evenks of Central Siberia.[4] These two sequences belong to X2* and X2b. It is uncertain if they represent a remnant of the migration of X2 through Siberia or a more recent input.[12](73(5): 1178–119, Am J Hum Genet (2003). "Origin and Diffusion of mtDNA Haplogroup X". Am. J. Hum. Genet. (The American Society of Human Genetics) 73 (5): 1178–90.doi:10.1086/379380. PMC 1180497. PMID 14574647. QUOTE: "It is apparent that the Native American haplogroup X mtDNAs derive from X2 by a unique combination of five mutations. It is notable that X2 includes the two complete Native American X sequences that constitute the distinctive X2a clade, a clade that lacks close relatives in the entire Old World, including Siberia. The position of X2a in the phylogenetic tree suggests an early split from the other X2 clades, likely at the very beginning of their expansion and spread from the Near East northeast of the Altai area, haplogroup X sequences were detected in the Tungusic-speaking Evenks, of the Podkamennaya Tunguska basin (Central Siberia). In contrast to the Altaians, the Evenks did not harbor any West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups other than X. However, neither of the two Evenk X haplotypes showed mutations characteristic of the Native American clade X2a. Instead, one sequence was a member of X2b and the other of X2. Thus, one possible scenario is that several X haplotypes arrived in Siberia from western Asia during the Palaeolithic, but only X2a crossed Beringia and survived in modern Native Americans."
The nearest X Haplotypes have been found is the Altai region of central Asia. This theory is supported by yDNA studies [Zegura.]
Schurr postulates that Haplogroup X arrived in North America via the central corridor which became free of ice about 12500 ybp.
Analysis of 123 Turkish specimens indicated that 5.7% belonged to sub-clade x2g [16183C,16189,16278,16519,73,195,225,263,ibid].

Hg X2 has an extensive low frequency distribution,which includes Lebanese 5.8%,Cypriots 6.7%,Druze and Orkney Islanders 7.2%.The latter have low haplotype diversities [0.4:0.473],which might be due to genetic drift or founder events.The X2e and X2f lineages constitute ca 88% of the southern Caucasus X sequences,which could be associated with post Younger Dryas population movements.Hg X distributions vary appreciably between the north [Nogays 4.2%;Kabardine 6.2%] and south Caucasus [Georgians 7.6%;Azers 4.2%].X2e,which is defined by the synomymous substitution at 15130 is present among the Altaian samples,that do not harbour any nucleotide differences between nps 16093 and 16365 [M Reida,2003].

The X2e mtDNA samples for 2 Altaians-Kizhi,1 Teleut and 1 Burgat were completely sampled and compared with a Caucasian specimen.The maximum parsimony tree revealed that the south Siberian X2e forms a separate cluster,which id defined by the coding region mutations 3948 and 13327,with two individuals sharing a coding region mutation at position 7853.A mutation at positon 3948 is present in a Georgian with a 3944 taq I variant It varies from the X2e root by 3 coding and 2 control region transitions.This divergence suggests that X2 was in Siberia ca 13.4+/-3.7Ka [M Derenko,2010].

G Derenko [2001] screened 793 native Siberians for Hg X,which was only detected in the Altaian samples.They had the 215G variant,that is not present among native North Americans and western Europeans.In a another study the Evenk,who live in the central Siberian Basin to the NE,yielded one X2b and another X2* samples,which do not appear to relate to the North American sub-cladeX2a [frequency ca 2%].Derenko postulated that the Altaian X2e occupies a position between European and North American mtDNA Hg X lineages.

MtDNA samples were obtained from 58 Daheyan villagers in the central Tarim Basin of China.Their language belongs to the Altaic linguistic family.Five Hg X specimens [frequency,8.6%] are characterized by 16145,16179,16183C,16189 and 16344 with one sample that included 16228.

The current North American distribution of X2a tends to be concentrated in the vicinity of the Great Lakes/Great Plains with frequencies as high as 25% among some Algonquian people [eg:Ojibwa] with diminishing clines to the west and south.Frequency estimates range from Sioux ca 15%,Nuu-Chah-Nuth ca 13.5%,Navajo ca 6.5%,and Yakuma ca 4.8% [M Brown,1998].There are a few single or very frequency occurrences of X2a lineages distal to the "Ojibwa core".One X2a individual was identified among the Shuswap in the Caribou country of British Columbia and 5 0f 63 [7.9%] Nuu-Chah-Nuth samples off the west coast of British Columbia are probably X2a [there is not sufficient definitive data to substantiate this premise].The above tend to support the theory that X2a was introduced to North America from NE Siberia and that a number of intermediate Hg X lineages have been lost.

This genetic founding lineage was probably introduced to North America from NE Siberia after the glacial era,but the current dispersal pattern of X2a is not in total accord with this supposition.

http://region.ezinemark.com/the-mtdna-x2a-enigima-17b8bb47811.html
The Solutrean hypothsis has been debunked. Haplotype X2a (What the Ojibwe have) is actually closer to Altaian Haplogroup X2 (In Siberia) than it is to any European type Haplogroup X2. THere are five unique mutations that characterize X2a. Only one of them has ever been found in an old world sample. That was one of the mutations which was found in Iran. http://herebedragons.weebly.com/more-orr.html
The Altai Region of Central Asia may have been the Origin of the Haplogroup X Native American Peoples.

[blogen]

Greek and other European immigrants in America.

[Proto-Shaman]

Greek and other European immigrants in America.
Trolling?

[blogen]

Trolling?

This is the answer your question! R1 and X in America.

[Insuperable]

http://imageshack.us/a/img29/9967/lgic.jpg

[Proto-Shaman]

This is the answer your question! R1 and X in America.
This has nothing to do with Columbus btw.

[Peikko]

This is the answer your question! R1 and X in America.

Actually this is way older.

[blogen]

Actually this is way older.

Then this natives are not real natives, but Mestizo population.

[Peikko]

Then this natives are not real natives, but Mestizo population.
No, these haplogroups are older. They didn't come from Europeans.

[Fire Haired]

i think u guys need to look at this
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28981-10-300ybp-Y-DNA!!-and-other-DNA-from-America-proves-they-are-Native-Amer-s-ancestors

I saw some of those so called caucasin skulls in north america when u look at them. They have typicl mongliod features and besides anyone can say almost anyhuman skull looks Caucasian or whatever deifntley if it is old and beat up and some of the features are gone. Maciamo did not mention that Y DNA N,O,P,Q,and R are all Mongliod. Sure they may have began in central asia but they also may have begun in eastern asia. 42,000 year old mtDNA in china near bejing had mongliod haplogroup B4's and other types of DNA i am pretty sure aust. showed it had not formed into any major modern mongliod groups that it still had the ancestral genes. So mongliods were in east asia.

Most native american R1 is R1b https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGenetic _history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas&ei=DekfUq3QK8e7rQHI9oCYBA&usg=AFQjCNG_QLZayx9wjzAfkqLngk_zlVjMYA&bvm=bv.51495398,d.aWM

[Artek]

Most native american R1 is R1b https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGenetic _history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas&ei=DekfUq3QK8e7rQHI9oCYBA&usg=AFQjCNG_QLZayx9wjzAfkqLngk_zlVjMYA&bvm=bv.51495398,d.aWM
Here you go, show me that R1 haplotypes in this study are R1b. I can even give you a link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2584155/

[Peikko]

I think fire haired is now confusingR1b with something else.

[Artek]

I think fire haired is now confusingR1b with something else.
It's written like that in Wikipedia but I found a source(this study) and there is no mention of R1b in here.
It's an R1* - ancestral to both R1b and R1a.