Is Anglojew European enough?

[Anglojew]

I got my 23andme results, and have been going over them for some time, espeically using the fascinating Gedmatch tools and McDonald's helpful analysis.

23andme had me as 100% European (or 99.8%) but Gedmatch has some South-Asian/Indo-Iranian ancestry which may relate to my Q haplogroup.

According to the JTest my results are as follows;

36882

According to this, I'm about 73.5% "European" and the remainder other Caucasian groupings (West Asian, Middle-Eastern, South-Asian, Ashkenazi), not counting Ashkenazi as European, or about 88% European, if you consider Ashkenazis' Europeans.

I seem to be plotting in Tuscany according to Gedmatch and others.

So, am I a European, or an Inter-Caucasian hybrid?

[StonyArabia]

European of course with some Semitic and South Asian influence. There are many Europeans who have SSA or Mongoloid ancestry.

[Shah-Jehan]

Yes, you have a lot of north Euro...

[Vesuvian Sky]

European with significant 'West-Asian' admixture is how I'd think about it.

[Loki]

According to this, I'm about 73.5% "European" and the remainder other Caucasian groupings (West Asian, Middle-Eastern, South-Asian, Ashkenazi), not counting Ashkenazi as European, or about 88% European, if you consider Ashkenazis' Europeans.


Don't be fooled by some people who claim that West Asian is "non-European". If that were so then large chunks of Europeans wouldn't be European, including Greeks and many others. Most of Europe has West Asian genes at different levels.

You are European genetically.

[Anglojew]

European with significant 'West-Asian' admixture is how I'd think about it.

Interesting. Thanks.

[Mark]

Native European mostly.

[Anglojew]

Don't be fooled by some people who claim that West Asian is "non-European". If that were so then large chunks of Europeans wouldn't be European, including Greeks and many others. Most of Europe has West Asian genes at different levels.

You are European genetically.

That's what I thought. I was surprised about the Indo-Iranian though. As mentioned the two populations with large Q haplogroups seem to be Ashkenazi Jews and Pakistanis so I'm thinking I might be descended from Radhanites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radhanite) but McDonald said the Q origin was "lost in pre-history."

[Anglojew]

Yes, you have a lot of north Euro...

A surprising amount of Baltic.

[Anglojew]

European of course with some Semitic and South Asian influence. There are many Europeans who have SSA or Mongoloid ancestry.

As a Q I'm distantly related to many Hunnic-Uralic/Turkic peoples.

[Shah-Jehan]

As a Q I'm distantly related to many Hunnic-Uralic/Turkic peoples.

Descendants of Khazars?:laugh:

[Smeagol]

Yes.

[Smeagol]

European of course with some Semitic and South Asian influence. There are many Europeans who have SSA or Mongoloid ancestry.

None have any significant SSA, or Mongoloid, just low levels.

[d3cimat3d]

According to this you're still a mischling.

http://i39.tinypic.com/vyb908.jpg

[Loki]

Descendants of Khazars?:laugh:

That could explain it!

[Anglojew]

Descendants of Khazars?:laugh:

I don't think so as none of the Turkic-Jewish populations (presumably descended directly from the Khazars) have any Q YDNA at all. It seems to come from a Afghan/Pakistani source possibly due to the Persian take over of the ancient Near-East and/or Radhanite traders although some people on 23andme are assuring me it means I'm a descendent of Khazar Royalty.

[Vesuvian Sky]

Interesting. Thanks.

Sure no problem. You're welcome.:)


Don't be fooled by some people who claim that West Asian is "non-European". If that were so then large chunks of Europeans wouldn't be European, including Greeks and many others. Most of Europe has West Asian genes at different levels.

You are European genetically.

But theoretically, 'West-Asian' genes are mostly associated with demographic processes emanating from outside of Europe around the northern Middle east and what not.


http://imageshack.us/a/img802/8164/ya7s.png

Granted, its European frequency is archaic and probably attributable to the Neolithic and, ergo, a well established part of the European gene pool but not necessarily the most archaic to Europe.

Some of its frequency could be due to more recent demographic processes. It all depends though on how reference populations are set up depending on calc. for who will score 100% Euro. I have significant West Asian genes but score 100% Euro on FTDNA. But on my McDonald's BGA I'm mostly Euro with a significant 'West Asian' component.

[Anglojew]

According to this you're still a mischling.

http://i39.tinypic.com/vyb908.jpg

I'm half-Jewish but at 14% Ashkenazi DNA I probably am not technically a Mischling in genetic terms but a real Nazi can elaborate on this if they wish?

[alb0zfinest]

Congrats on your results. Some percentages that you have are a bit higher than general Europeans, but over all I would consider you European.

By the way have you ever posted a pic on the apricity?

[Anglojew]

Congrats on your results. Some percentages that you have are a bit higher than general Europeans, but over all I would consider you European.

By the way have you ever posted a pic on the apricity?

No, I'm too pretty to post on here, I'd get too many stalkers.

[alb0zfinest]

No, I'm too pretty to post on here, I'd get too many stalkers.

:D
Nice evade.

[Mortimer]

european

[Krampus]

Yes. That's definitely European with some minor Middle Eastern DNA.

[Anglojew]

european

Since I'm part Persian/Pashtun or something I'm partially South-Asian!

[Krampus]

No, I'm too pretty to post on here, I'd get too many stalkers.

Well, that prettyness could change the Muslims. Once they see you, they'll think "Oh my god, what have we been doing to Jews! I think this guy might be Allah!" :rolleyes:

[YeshAtid]

Out of interest do you display the usual "Jewish" phenotype?

[Anglojew]

Well, that prettyness could change the Muslims. Once they see you, they'll think "Oh my god, what have we been doing to Jews! I think this guy might be Allah!" :rolleyes:

Yes, this would happen to me in most Muslim countries;

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/man-kicked-out-of-saudi-arabia-for-being-8216too-handsome8217-to-reveal-all-in-movie/story-fndir2ev-1226654931463

[Cristiano viejo]

How do you dare to claim yourself if you are European, having 14,29% Askenazi, 6,53% West Asian, 3,49% Middle Eastern and 2,11% South Asian?? Is that a joke or what??

[YeshAtid]

How do you dare to claim yourself if you are European, having 14,29% Askenazi, 6,53% West Asian, 3,49% Middle Eastern and 2,11% South Asian?? Is that a joke or what??

Piss of Nutzi

[Shah-Jehan]

How do you dare to claim yourself if you are European, having 14,29% Askenazi, 6,53% West Asian, 3,49% Middle Eastern and 2,11% South Asian?? Is that a joke or what??

This is going to be fun:D

[Oneeye]

Can you pass the paper bag test?

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4704222991092303&pid=15.1

[Anglojew]

Out of interest do you display the usual "Jewish" phenotype?

Funny enough I do look Jewish I think. I think I look like a mix between Judean and Paleo-Atlantid.

I've had an Egyptian (Christian) woman guess I was Jewish, on holiday in another country, so I guess I inherited a "Semitic" look but most people think Greek or Italian. A Palestinian once thought I was a Palestinian also.

[YeshAtid]

Funny enough I do look Jewish I think. I think I look like a mix between Judean and Paleo-Atlantid.

I've had an Egyptian (Christian) woman guess I was Jewish, on holiday in another country, so I guess I inherited a "Semitic" look but most people think Greek or Italian. A Palestinian once thought I was a Palestinian also.

I have a feeling Jewish phenotypes are often quite recessive if you catch my drift.

[alb0zfinest]

Yes, this would happen to me in most Muslim countries;

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/man-kicked-out-of-saudi-arabia-for-being-8216too-handsome8217-to-reveal-all-in-movie/story-fndir2ev-1226654931463

lol
Those that like to brag about their appearance are generally the ones who are...............never mind :D.

[Smeagol]

How do you dare to claim yourself if you are European, having 14,29% Askenazi, 6,53% West Asian, 3,49% Middle Eastern and 2,11% South Asian?? Is that a joke or what??

To be fair, he's probably about as European as a Spaniard. Maybe a bit more.;)

[Cristiano viejo]

To be fair, he's probably about as European as a Spaniard. Maybe a bit more.;)

In your Jewish agenda of course :rolleyes:

[YeshAtid]

In your Jewish agenda of course :rolleyes:

You're part negroid:thumb001:

[Anglojew]

Can you pass the paper bag test?

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4704222991092303&pid=15.1

Lol yes, I have very fair skin although I do tan. My mother doesn't tan having typically "celtic" skin.

[Anglojew]

In your Jewish agenda of course :rolleyes:

Actually on one of the Gedmatch tests my biggest component was Iberian.

[Smeagol]

In your Jewish agenda of course :rolleyes:

It's part of a Jewish agenda if you don't like it right?
Sorry dude, you have Moor blood.


North African Berber and Arab Influences in the Western Mediterranean Revealed by Y-Chromosome DNA Haplotypes

We have analyzed Y-chromosome diversity in the western Mediterranean area, examining p49a,f TaqI haplotype V and subhaplotypes Vb (Berber) and Va (Arab). A total of 2,196 unrelated DNA samples, belonging to 22 populations from North Africa and the southern Mediterranean coast of occidental Europe, have been typed. Subhaplotype Vb, predominant in a Berber population of Morocco (63.5%), was also found at high frequencies in southern Portugal (35.9%) and Andalusia (25.4%). The Arab subhaplotype Va, predominant in Algeria (53.9%) and Tunisia (50.6%), was also found at a relatively high frequency in Sicily (23.1%) and Naples (16.4%); its highest frequency in Iberia was in northern Portugal (22.8%) and Andalusia (15.5%). In Iberia there is a gradient of decreasing frequencies in latitude for both subhaplotypes Va and Vb, related to eight centuries of Muslim domination (8th to 15th centuries) in southern Iberia.

During the 7th century A.D., Muslim people coming from the Arabian peninsula and the Middle East invaded North Africa. The most important population movement relating both sides of the Mediterranean Sea was the conquest of the Iberian peninsula by North African populations (with recruited Berbers), soon after the first Muslim invasion. More than eight centuries (8th to 15th centuries) of Muslim domination in the southern part of Iberia imparted an important cultural legacy (Conrad 1998) and probable gene exchanges between North African and Iberian populations.

Variations in DNA sequences specific to the nonrecombinant part of the Y chromosome, relating to paternal ancestry, are particularly interesting from a human population genetics point of view. The first published and most informative probe used in Southern blots for this objective is p49 (locus DYSl), which is able to identify at last five TaqI male-specific fragments (A, C, D, F, and I) that are polymorphic between individuals (Lucotte and Ngo 1985). Sixteen main corresponding haplotypes (numbered I-XVI) were identified using the p49 probe on DNA samples of unrelated males living in France (Ngo et al. 1986). Only recently has the molecular basis of the p49 TaqI polymorphisms been established (Jovelin et al. 2003); the polymorphisms correspond to variable TaqI sites located in the four DAZ genes located in the AZF-c region of the Y chromosome.

In fact, the conventional p49 TaqI polymorphisms were the most popular markers used in various populations because of their ability to detect more than 100 different haplotypes [for a compilation on the subject until the end of 1995, see Poloni et al. (1997)]. Haplotype XV (A3,C1,D2,F1,I1) was the most widespread haplotype in our initial study (Ngo et al. 1986). Haplotype XV was also predominant in the first European study we published (Lucotte and Hazout 1996), with elevated frequencies in French Basques. The geographic distribution of haplotype XV in Europe reveals a gradient of decreasing frequencies from this Basque focus toward eastern peripheral countries (Lucotte and Loirat 1999) but also toward southwestern countries. According to the Y Chromosome Consortium (2002) nomenclature, haplotype XV corresponds to the M173 lineage (Diéterlen and Lucotte 2005).

Haplotype V (E3b1b) (A2,C0,D0,F1,I1) is the most frequent haplotype in North Africa (Lucotte et al. 2000), with a particularly high frequency (55%) in the populations with a relative predominance of Berber origin. Our previous study on the subject examined the relative frequencies of haplotype V in four Iberian populations compared with a Berber population living in North Africa (Lucotte et al. 2001). The highest frequency of haplotype V (68.9%) was observed in Berbers from Morocco, and the geographic distribution of haplotype V revealed a gradient of decreasing frequencies with latitude in Iberia (40.8% in Andalusia, 36.2% in Portugal, 12.1% in Catalonia, and 11.3% in the Basque Country) (Lucotte et al. 2001); such a cline of decreasing haplotype V frequencies from the south to the north in Iberia clearly established a gene flow from North Africa toward Iberia.

According to the Y Chromosome Consortium (2002) nomenclature, haplogroup E is characterized by the mutations SRY4064, M96, and P29 on a background defined by the insertion of an Alu element (YAP + ). The third clade, E3 (defined by the mutation P2), of haplogroup E is further subdivided into two monophyletic forms, the second one (E3b) being characterized by mutations M35 and M125. All of the 110 p49 TaqI haplotype V subjects from Morocco (51 Berbers and 59 Arabs) that we had previously tested correspond to haplogroup E3b.

In the present study we have subdivided haplotype V into its Berber (Vb) and Arab (Va) components in order to distinguish the relative contributions of these two ethnicity-specific markers in the gene pools of the populations living in Iberia and in other populations in the northern part of the western Mediterranean area.

DNA Samples. This study concerns 2,196 unrelated male DNA samples (Table 1). We collected 904 new unrelated males subjects, from three different countries (Portugal, France, and Italy): 79 from North Portugal and 59 from South Portugal; 243 from the Marseilles region of France; 192 from Genoa, 64 from Rome, and 128 from Naples in continental Italy; 39 from Sicily; and 100 from Sardinia. All these new samples correspond to adult males, whose origin is based on the local birthplace of their fathers and (at least) grandfathers. We have obtained informed consent from each of the French subjects studied.

We add for comparison the following subjects, already tested as bearing haplotype V in previous studies: 11 subjects from Mauritania, 51 Berbers from Morocco, 59 Arabs from Rabat, 80 subjects from Algeria, 39 subjects from Tunisia, and 17 subjects from Libya (Lucotte et al. 2000); 29 Spaniards from Sevilla (Lucotte et al. 2001); 4 Spaniards from Barcelona and 9 French Catalans from Perpignan (Lucotte and Loirat 1999); 11 French Basques, 1 subject from Montpellier, and 7 subjects from Grasse in France and 6 subjects from Milan in Italy (Lucotte and Hazout 1996); and 44 subjects from Corsica (Lucotte et al. 2002).

Results

Table 1 summarizes the frequencies we obtained for haplotype V and sub-haplotypes Vb and Va in the 22 study populations. For the 2,196 males typed, 491 (22.3%) bear haplotype V. The frequency of haplotype V is 35.5% in Portugal, with a more elevated proportion in the south (49.2%) than in the north (25.3%). The frequency of haplotype V in the Marseilles region (11.1%) has a value similar to the mean value in continental France (9%). In Italy the highest frequency is attained in Sicily (28.2%), followed by Naples at 17.2%. As previously shown (Lucotte et al. 2000), haplotype V is found at the highest frequency (68.9%) in Berbers from Marrakech in Morocco; an apparently increasing east-west cline in haplotype V frequencies is shown in North Africa from Libya (44.7%) to Rabat (57.7%), with intermediate values for Tunisia (53.4%) and Algeria (56.7%). In Spain haplotype V is much more frequent (40.9%) in the south of the country [in Andalusia (Sevilla)] than in the north (12.9%) [in Catalonia (Barcelona)].

Subhaplotype Vb is the Berber subhaplotype because its most elevated relative value (63.5%) is obtained for the Berber population of Marrakech. In the non-Berber population of Rabat in Morocco, the frequency of subhaplotype Vb is only 20.6%, whereas the frequency of subhaplotype Va (Arab) is 37.3%. In order of decreasing values, the subhaplotype Vb frequencies are 40% in Mauritania, 35.9% in South Portugal, 25.4% in Andalusia, and 15.8% in Libya. Low frequencies of subhaplotype Vb are found in Sicily (5.1%), Algeria (2.8%), Tunisia (2.7%), and North Portugal (2.5%); frequencies less than 2% are found in French Basques (1.9%), in Naples (0.8%), and in Corsica (0.6%), Subhaplotype Vb is absent in Catalonia (Barcelona and Perpignan), in the south of France (Montpellier, Grasse, and the region of Marseilles), in continental Italy (Milan, Genoa, and Rome), and in Sardinia.

Table 2 summarizes the frequencies of subhaplotype Vb in North Africa, Iberia, the south of France, and Italy. The maximum value (63.5%) concerns the Berber population, but this frequency is notably lower (9.3%) for other populations from North Africa. In southern Iberia an elevated value (30%) is observed, but the frequency of subhaplotype Vb is only 1.8% in northern Iberia. These frequencies are less than 1% in France and Italy.

Figure 2 shows the isofrequency map of subhaplotype Vb in the western Mediterranean area (coordinates on the map: x = longitude, y = latitude). From the Berber focus in Berbers from southern Morocco, the frequencies of subhaplotype Vb decrease in North Africa to the north of Morocco and to the east in Algeria and Tunisia. For Iberia the most elevated value of subhaplotype Vb frequencies is in southern Portugal; relatively elevated values are observed in Andalusia, moderate values are observed in the southern part of Spain, and low values are seen in Catalonia.

In the present study all haplotype V non-subhaplotype Vb subjects are termed subhaplotype Va (Arab) subjects. Their maximum relative frequencies are 53.9% (Algeria), 50% (Tunisia), and 37.3% (Rabat) in North Africa. Table 3 summarizes the frequencies of subhaplotype Va in North Africa, Iberia, southern France, and Italy. The maximum value (45.8%) is found in North Africa. In northern Iberia a slightly more elevated value is observed (20%) compared to southern Iberia (14.6%). A frequency of 10.3% is seen in France, and in Italy the 14.6% value observed in the south is relatively more elevated than in the north (3.4%).

Figure 3 gives the isofrequency map of subhaplotype Vb. In North Africa frequencies decrease from east to west and southward. For southern Europe the map shows the relatively higher percentages observed in the south of Italy versus the north and (to a lesser degree) in the north of Iberia versus the south.

In our PCR assay the 68 Moroccan subjects with subhaplotype Vb (47 Berbers and 21 Arabs) were tested for the M81 marker: All subjects were positive for the M81 marker, so subhaplotype Vb is homologous with subhaplogroup E3b2. The 38 Moroccan non-Berber subjects were further tested for the M78 marker: Only 31 of them (80.8%) were positive for the M78 marker; we conclude that, in Morocco at least, subhaplotype Va corresponds only partly to subhaplogroup E3b1.

P49a,f TaqI haplotype V, which is homologous with haplogroup E3b according to the Y Chromosome Consortium (2002) nomenclature, is the predominant Y-chromosome haplotype in North Africa (Lucotte et al. 2000), where its geographic distribution shows an east to west cline. In the present study we have extended the research of haplotype V frequencies (Lucotte et al. 2001) in various European populations located in the western Mediterranean basin to include France, Portugal, and Italy. The frequency of haplotype V in the Marseilles region is 11.1%, a value similar to the main value we obtained previously for continental France (Lucotte and Hazout 1996). In continental Italy we observed the highest haplotype V frequency in Naples (17.2%); Sicily, with a frequency of 28.2%, corresponds to the most elevated value we observed for Italy. In South Portugal the frequency of haplotype V is very high (49.2%); we had previously obtained a similar value for Libya and for Mauritania. The frequency of haplotype V for North Portugal (25.3%) is similar to the value we obtained for Sicily in the present study.

Related Results
Y-chromosome DNA haplotypes in North African populations

To better divide haplotype V into its ethnic components, we have subdivided it into subhaplotypes Vb (Berber) and Va (Arab). We have established that subhaplotype Vb is the Berber haplotype, because it is present at very elevated frequencies (63.5%) in our Berber population from Morocco but at relatively low frequencies (20.6%) in our non-Berber population of Rabat. Such a distinction of a Berber component was also realized by Scozzari et al. (2001), because they observed that the haplogroup they named 25.2 was also more frequent in the Berber population from Morocco than in Arabs. Our present results show that subhaplotype Vb frequencies in North Africa decrease from west to east, starting from the Berber focus in Morocco; in the western Mediterranean area subhaplotype Vb is at low frequencies along the south coast of Europe but occurs at relatively elevated frequencies in southern Iberia (peaking at 35.9% in South Portugal). Flores et al. (2004), in their important study of various locations in Iberia, observed that subhaplogroup E3b2 is more frequent in southern Iberia, attaining a maximum value of 11.5% in the region of Málaga.

In the present study all the non-subhaplotype Vb subjects bearing haplo-type V are classified as subhaplotype Va (Arab); they probably correspond to a heterogeneous group representing various ethnicities (our results concerning the incomplete correspondence between subhaplotypes Va and E3b1 in Morocco suggest that). We have shown here that in North Africa the focus of subhaplotype Va frequencies is in Algeria (53.9%) and Tunisia (50.6%); from this focus frequencies of subhaplotype Va decrease in the south and the west of the region.

Subhaplotype Va attains substantial frequencies along the southern coast of Europe; these frequencies reached relatively elevated frequencies in France (Perpignan, 11.8%) and in southern Italy (Naples, 16.4%; Sicily, 23.1%). For Iberia, relatively more elevated values are attained for Andalusia (15.5%) and for North Portugal (22.8%). Brion et al. (2004) also showed relatively higher frequencies of haplogroup E* (xE3a) (up to 18.3%) in their study concerning northern Iberia.

We had previously established (Lucotte et al. 2001) that haplotype V showed a gradient of decreasing frequencies with latitude in Iberia, and we interpreted this pattern as a consequence of the historical Islamic occupation of the peninsula (Conrad 1998). The results reported in the present study concerning subhaplotypes Vb and Va (subhaplotype isofrequencies maps given in Figures 2 and 3) have again shown both of these gradients. From this perspective, the opposite pattern of gradient frequencies observed in Iberia for the western European haplotype XV (Diéterlen and Lucotte 2005) is reconciled with the slow reconquest of the Iberian peninsula from the north by the Christians, which lasted seven centuries and ended in Granada in 1492.

[Anglojew]

lol
Those that like to brag about their appearance are generally the ones who are...............never mind :D.

I'm a realist.

[YeshAtid]

Are you a Cohen ?

[Anglojew]

How do you dare to claim yourself if you are European, having 14,29% Askenazi, 6,53% West Asian, 3,49% Middle Eastern and 2,11% South Asian?? Is that a joke or what??

1. I'm puting the question out there. Feel free to respond any way you like.

2. According to DNAtribes (as I posted on another thread) Spaniards are about 20% non-European while I'm about 25% even excluding Ashkenazi as European.

3. I'm 100% European according to 23andme and 100% Caucasian according to Gedmatch.

[Anglojew]

Are you a Cohen ?

No.

[YeshAtid]

No.

Usually they look the most Judean.Don't you think ?

[Smeagol]

Usually they look the most Judean.Don't you think ?

I have a friend who is a Cohen, he looks completely European I think.

[Anglojew]

Usually they look the most Judean.Don't you think ?

Yes, there's a distinct look. I did a thread about this a while ago.

[YeshAtid]

They rarely marry outside though

[Smeagol]

They rarely marry outside though

I bet the non-religious ones do.

[YeshAtid]

I bet the non-religious ones do.

Only recently

[Smeagol]

Only recently

Are Cohens only supposed to marry other Cohens or something?

[YeshAtid]

Are Cohens only supposed to marry other Cohens or something?

yep

[Anglojew]

Are Cohens only supposed to marry other Cohens or something?

Yes, they can't even marry converts.

[Cristiano viejo]

2. According to DNAtribes (as I posted on another thread) Spaniards are about 20% non-European while I'm about 25% even excluding Ashkenazi as European.

They already answered you in that thread, even users not Iberians (Graham) said that dnatribes it´s not reliable. Your maps were a shit btw



3. I'm 100% European according to 23andme and 100% Caucasian according to Gedmatch.
I have not seen these results from 23andme but I bet what you have Askenazi percentage there.
According Gedmatch, you are not European in any way.

It's part of a Jewish agenda if you don't like it right?
Sorry dude, you have Moor blood.

You have not even put the source of that study.
But sorry for you because I am not Andalusian ;)
Even for Andalusia the percentages are low (but it's funny thing that your Jewish brother given other a percentages, and you give other differents ;) )

I also have some studies that say otherwise


An analysis of 11 Alu insertion polymorphisms (ACE, TPA25, PV92, APO, FXIIIB, D1, A25, B65, HS2.43, HS3.23, and HS4.65) has been performed in several NW African (Northern, Western, and Southeastern Moroccans; Saharawi; Algerians; Tunisians) and Iberian (Basques, Catalans, and Andalusians) populations. Genetic distances and principal component analyses show a clear differentiation of NW African and Iberian groups of samples, suggesting a strong genetic barrier matching the geographical Mediterranean Sea barrier. The restriction to gene flow may be attributed to the navigational hazards across the Straits, but cultural factors must also have played a role. Some degree of gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa can be detected in the southern part of North Africa and in Saharawi and Southeastern Moroccans, as a result of a continuous gene flow across the Sahara desert that has created a south-north cline of sub-Saharan Africa influence in North Africa. Iberian samples show a substantial degree of homogeneity and fall within the cluster of European-based genetic diversity.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s004390000370

for last, ancient Berbers were from White race, there are chronicles in which it say many Berbers were Whites, blondes and blueyed btw so why do you name them?:confused:

[Mortimer]

anglo-jew is european, fuck spaniards

[Cristiano viejo]

anglo-jew is european, fuck spaniards

Yes, just like you, Gypsy :laugh:

[Loki]

Cristiano viejo = butthurt

[Anglojew]

anglo-jew is european, fuck spaniards

Whether I'm European or not is a seperate issue from Spaniards Europeaness but it's interesting to note how insecure most Spaniards are about their Europeaness.

[Mortimer]

Yes, just like you, Gypsy :laugh:

we are different. he is something else then me. i do not consider myself european because i have southasian and that is not found in european populations i consider myself mixed/other but anglo-jew is european because he is predom european and with some west asian which is also found in european populations, also ashkenazis are white to me but romas are not, romas are brown. and i think he looks white, we have not much in common. you moor skinhead

[Anglojew]

They already answered you in that thread, even users not Iberians (Graham) said that dnatribes it´s not reliable. Your maps were a shit btw


I have not seen these results from 23andme but I bet what you have Askenazi percentage there.
According Gedmatch, you are not European in any way.


You have not even put the source of that study.
But sorry for you because I am not Andalusian ;)
Even for Andalusia the percentages are low (but it's funny thing that your Jewish brother given other a percentages, and you give other differents ;) )

I also have some studies that say otherwise



http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s004390000370

for last, ancient Berbers were from White race, there are chronicles in which it say many Berbers were Whites, blondes and blueyed btw so why do you name them?:confused:


http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg607/scaled.php?server=607&filename=euroadmix.png&res=medium

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TPBJmmJLScI/AAAAAAAAC7Y/RezgY2l49Vg/s1600/ADMIXTURE_10.png

[Cristiano viejo]

Whether I'm European or not is a seperate issue from Spaniards Europeaness but it's interesting to note how insecure most Spaniards are about their Europeaness.
haha you are who opne a thread ask for his Europeaness, not me.

we are different. he is something else then me. i do not consider myself european because i have southasian and that is not found in european populations i consider myself mixed/other but anglo-jew is european because he is predom european and with some west asian which is also found in european populations, also ashkenazis are white to me but romas are not, romas are brown. and i think he looks white, we have not much in common. you moor skinhead

Yes, for you everybody is White.

[Mortimer]

Yes, for you and compared with you, everybody is White.

no i dont consider everybody white. lots of people here consider menas white but i dont, like northafricans and iranians etc. but i consider jews white, it is obvious they are

[Anglojew]

haha you are who opne a thread ask for his Europeaness, not me.


Yes, for you and compared with you, everybody is White.

Yes and you're allowed your opinion but I think it's self-serving as I predict the maximum level of non-European admixture a person has to have for you to consider them European will magically be exactly the amount the average Spaniard has.

[Anglojew]

no i dont consider everybody white. lots of people here consider menas white but i dont, like northafricans and iranians etc. but i consider jews white, it is obvious they are

Ashkenazi Jews are fairer than Spaniards eg have a higher percentage of genes for blue eyes;.

http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/the-color-of-eyes-at-least-17-herc2.html

[Lábaru]

Since you ask, you're a hybrid/mestizo.

[ALL]

Congratulations on taking the test and your results.

[Anglojew]

Since you ask, you're a hybrid/mestizo.

But I don't have Native American ancestry?

[Lábaru]

But I don't have Native American ancestry?

No of course, but 14,9 Askenazi, 6.53 West Asian, 3,49 Middle Eastern, 2,11 South Asian= 70% European, being Ashkenazi the main component that makes you a mestizo or a hybrid. I have a curiosity, in what population autosomally you fit in?

[Anglojew]

No of course, but 14,9 Askenazi, 6.53 West Asian, 3,49 Middle Eastern, 2,11 South Asian= 70% European, being Ashkenazi the main component that makes you a mestizo or a hybrid. I have a curiosity, in what population autosomally you fit in?

I seem to either fit in Tuscany or Romania.

[Lábaru]

I seem to either fit in Tuscany or Romania.

Then you must be happy, you are much less mongrel than the average Jew, do you have a map?

[Mortimer]

No of course, but 14,9 Askenazi, 6.53 West Asian, 3,49 Middle Eastern, 2,11 South Asian= 70% European, being Ashkenazi the main component that makes you a mestizo or a hybrid. I have a curiosity, in what population autosomally you fit in?

mestizos are only half native americans, half europeans. there are other words for other mixtures. just like a mestizo isnt a mullato (but both means half) so a half jew isnt a mestizo, im not a mestizo either or mullato. im half gypsy. i dont think there are such special terms for half jews or half romas, they are just "mixed people" or "mixed race people" in my case in his case "mixed ethnic white"

[ALL]

Here is Q project from Familytreedna.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ydna_Q/default.aspx?section=yresults
You have snps test these result's are str's, congratulations again. Q and R are on the same branch.
http://www.britam.org/picturesYair/yDNA.gif

[Lábaru]

mestizos are only half native americans, half europeans. there are other words for other mixtures. just like a mestizo isnt a mullato (but both means half) so a half jew isnt a mestizo, im not a mestizo either or mullato. im half gypsy. i dont think there are such special terms for half jews or half romas, they are just "mixed people" or "mixed race people" in my case in his case "mixed ethnic white"

Maybe in English, in Castillian mestizo means anyone who has mixed blood of different races, being Ashkenazi a component from outside Europe the word is correct for me, of course you can choose the English word you think is best, it's only my opinion.

[Anglojew]

Then you must be happy, you are much less mongrel than the average Jew, do you have a map?

This is from McDonald;

36886

[Anglojew]

mestizos are only half native americans, half europeans. there are other words for other mixtures. just like a mestizo isnt a mullato (but both means half) so a half jew isnt a mestizo, im not a mestizo either or mullato. im half gypsy. i dont think there are such special terms for half jews or half romas, they are just "mixed people" or "mixed race people" in my case in his case "mixed ethnic white"

Both groups are almost solely Caucasian though so not really "mixed-race". There must be a Spanish term for a part-Jew in Spain?

[Mortimer]

Maybe in English, in Castillian mestizo means anyone who has mixed blood of different races, being Ashkenazi a component from outside Europe the word is correct for me, of course you can choose the English word you think is best, it's only my opinion.

i doubt you say the truth, you certainly make a distinction between mullato and mestizo and other mixed race people in your language. you are a lier probably. after all it was the spaniards who invented "mestizo, castizo, zambo, hornizo, mullato etc." it was the spaniards who invented all those words not english. the root of the word means half, but it has a more special meaning then only generally half. and if he is mestizo you are too, you score west asian and even SSA and northafrican all components outside europe. and ashkenazi is white component.

[Anglojew]

Maybe in English, in Castillian mestizo means anyone who has mixed blood of different races, being Ashkenazi a component from outside Europe the word is correct for me, of course you can choose the English word you think is best, it's only my opinion.

I'm not mixed-race though eg I'm Caucasian. Is there a word for being half-Marrano?

[Anglojew]

i doubt you say the truth, you certainly make a distinction between mullato and mestizo and other mixed race people in your language. you are a lier probably. after all it was the spaniards who invented "mestizo, castizo, zambo, hornizo, mullato etc." it was the spaniards who invented all those words not english. the root of the word means half, but it has a more special meaning then only generally half. and if he is mestizo you are too, you score west asian and even SSA and northafrican all components outside europe. and ashkenazi is white component.

There's plenty of examples of "New Christian" Jews attaining high positions within Spain and not being considered "non-Spanish" so I'm not sure Mestizo is the right word.

[Lábaru]

This is from McDonald;

36886

Something is wrong here, the positions of countries are incorrect, at least not that I've seen in other studies of 23andme, is this normal in Mcdonald?

[Anglojew]

Something is wrong here, the positions of countries are incorrect, at least not that I've seen in other studies of 23andme, is this normal in Mcdonald?

No idea sorry. Do you recommend another Gedmatch one?

[Anglojew]

Something is wrong here, the positions of countries are incorrect, at least not that I've seen in other studies of 23andme, is this normal in Mcdonald?

The 23andme map has me in Northern Europe.

[Lábaru]

No idea sorry. Do you recommend another Gedmatch one?

Yes, one that not emplace Spanish closer to English than closer to Basques, in this map the English are more similar to Spanish than to Polish or German, and that among other details makes it unreliable. You must remember that in you opinion the Spanish are not even fully human/Sapiens.

[SkyBurn]

No of course, but 14,9 Askenazi, 6.53 West Asian, 3,49 Middle Eastern, 2,11 South Asian= 70% European, being Ashkenazi the main component that makes you a mestizo or a hybrid. I have a curiosity, in what population autosomally you fit in?

Every single person in the world is an ethnic mongrel. It is extremely rare to find anybody who is 100% anything.

I always see Spaniards talking out of their ass here about how they're pure European. And none of them ever link their genetic results. The one drop rule is pretty much idiotic, and excludes SO many people. 'Europeanness' encompasses culture, appearance and ethnic history, and to some extent, genetics. Anglojew is European (well, Australian), and his religion doesn't change that. And he's certainly 'white' in the normal (non fascist) sense of the word.

[Anglojew]

Yes, one that not emplace Spanish closer to English than closer to Basques, in this map the English are more similar to Spanish than to Polish or German, and that among other details makes it unreliable. You must remember that in you opinion the Spanish are not even fully human/Sapiens.

I'm 2.7% Neanderthal so maybe we're related.

[Lábaru]

The 23andme map has me in Northern Europe.

Post other maps.

[Swearengen]

If you're 70+% European and don't have any significant SSA or mongoloid DNA, I don't see why you shouldn't be considered white.

[Anglojew]

Post other maps.

Which maps? I have no idea what I'm doing on Gedmatch.

[Anglojew]

If you're 70+% European and don't have any significant SSA or mongoloid DNA, I don't see why you shouldn't be considered white.

Yeah, as far as I can see the rest is basically all bordering Caucasian populations to Europe except the Indo-Iranian which is an Indo-European population anyway.

[Lábaru]

Every single person in the world is an ethnic mongrel. It is extremely rare to find anybody who is 100% anything.

There are different degrees of miscegenation, we are not all equal, that is not the question in the title? Is Anglojew European enough?


I always see Spaniards talking out of their ass here about how they're pure European. And none of them ever link their genetic results. The one drop rule is pretty much idiotic, and excludes SO many people. 'Europeanness' encompasses culture, appearance and ethnic history, and to some extent, genetics. Anglojew is European (well, Australian), and his religion doesn't change that. And he's certainly 'white' in the normal (non fascist) sense of the word.

you have several genetic studies of Spanish in the forum, all show a high purity European mix over 91%, but we are not talking about the Spanish, we can be from Mars if it makes others happy, this is a matter of opinion, if AngloJew is a normal European for you, then most of Latin Americans with 70% of genetic European contribution should also be included as Europeans.

That's my point of view, of course everyone has an ass.

[SkyBurn]

If you're 70+% European and don't have any significant SSA or mongoloid DNA, I don't see why you shouldn't be considered white.

He would be considered 'white' regardless. As I say often, 'whiteness' in the regular sense is entirely appearance based.

Anglojew, why are you even seeking approval with this thread anyway? You're better than this! :p

[Anglojew]

There are different degrees of miscegenation, we are not all equal, that is not the question in the title? Is Anglojew European enough?



you have several genetic studies of Spanish in the forum, all show a high purity European mix, but we are not talking about the Spanish, we can be from Mars if it makes others happy, this is a matter of opinion, if AngloJew is a normal European for you, then most of Latin Americans with 70% of genetic European contribution should also be included as Europeans.

That's my point of view, of course everyone has an ass.

1. I agree there's no point bringing the Spanish into this because this is about me (except to point out DNA tribes shows them having 20% non-European admixture on average).

2. The difference is that in Latin America the other 30% is non-Caucasian.

3. I guess the question could be broken down into;

-Is Anglojew Caucasian?

The answer to which is yes, 100%

- Is Anglojew white?

The answer to which is clearly yes.

-Is Anglojew European (Eurapid) racially?

The answer to which is probably borderline but then many other European groups eg Romanians must also be borderline.

[StonyArabia]

Since you ask, you're a hybrid/mestizo.


LOL:picard1:

[Swearengen]

He would be considered 'white' regardless. As I say often, 'whiteness' in the regular sense is entirely appearance based.

Anglojew, why are you even seeking approval with this thread anyway? You're better than this! :p

It depends. I don't consider stephen graham white because he's 1/4 black. Nor would most canadians if they found out about his black ancestry.

[Anglojew]

He would be considered 'white' regardless. As I say often, 'whiteness' in the regular sense is entirely appearance based.

Anglojew, why are you even seeking approval with this thread anyway? You're better than this! :p

I'm not seeking approval. I am what I am, if I was insecure about this I wouldn't have started the thread with an open-ended question. I'm interested in people's opinions on this interesting and complicated topic eg what constitutes a European?

[SkyBurn]

It depends. I don't consider stephen graham white because he's 1/4 black. Nor would most canadians if they found out about his black ancestry.

I'm not sure I agree there. I personally believe that even though he is 1/4 Jamaican, he is genetically predominantly caucasian and looks it. The ordinary person doesn't care about genetic results. The ordinary person slots people into racial categories on how they appear.

Anyway, that discussion is OT :)

[Swearengen]

I'm not sure I agree there. I personally believe that even though he is 1/4 Jamaican, he is genetically predominantly caucasian and looks it. The ordinary person doesn't care about genetic results. The ordinary person slots people into racial categories on how they appear.

The average person would definitely care about 25% black ancestry. If they found out they'd probably say "but he looks white!" basically implying that he passes, but isn't. There's a difference even to ordinary people.

[Anglojew]

I'm not sure I agree there. I personally believe that even though he is 1/4 Jamaican, he is genetically predominantly caucasian and looks it. The ordinary person doesn't care about genetic results. The ordinary person slots people into racial categories on how they appear.

Anyway, that discussion is OT :)

Fantastic actor.

[Skerdilaid]

In order for on to be considered a full European you have to have full European ancestry. The same could be applied for the Blacks in America, they can't be considered full African.

You obviously have European ancestry but you are mix and that's what you will always be.

[Anglojew]

The average person would definitely care about 25% black ancestry. If they found out they'd probably say "but he looks white!" basically implying that he passes, but isn't. There's a difference even to ordinary people.

Ryan Giggs is another example.

However I'm not part-Negro or part non-Caucasian.

[SkyBurn]

In order for on to be considered a full European you have to have full European ancestry. The same could be applied for the Blacks in America, they can't be considered full African.

You obviously have European ancestry but you are mix and that's what you will always be.

I could essentially give you a bunch of percentages, and I feel like you'd gonna get bogged down in the one drop rule.

Let me tell you something about the one drop rule: nearly EVERYBODY in Europe would fail.

[Anglojew]

In order for on to be considered a full European you have to have full European ancestry. The same could be applied for the Blacks in America, they can't be considered full African.

You obviously have European ancestry but you are mix and that's what you will always be.

I agree in principle but in practice so many European groups have non-European admixture; basically the whole of Southern and Eastern Europe. Are Finns European? Romanians?

[Lábaru]

1. I agree there's no point bringing the Spanish into this because this is about me (except to point out DNA tribes shows them having 20% non-European admixture on average).

DNA tribes is unreliable, that is known by everyone.


2. The difference is that in Latin America the other 30% is non-Caucasian.

Caucasian is a vague term, is Alberta1(or Gigolo) Caucasian to your eyes? for me, he is as European as an Indian. In my world there are no half measures, everything has a name, Europe is one thing, caucasian is a different one.


-Is Anglojew Caucasian?

Then you're as caucasian as the average North African or Palestine. As I said, is a vague term.



-Is Anglojew white?

Everyone will have an opinion about this one. Irrelevant.


-Is Anglojew European (Eurapid) racially?

Eurapid not is equal to European, remember the question about Alberta1(or Gigolo) and be honest with yourself.

[Anglojew]

DNA tribes is unreliable, that is known by everyone.



Caucasian is a vague term, is Alberta1 Caucasian to your eyes? for me, he is as European as an Indian. In my world there are no half measures, everything has a name, Europe is one thing, caucasian is a different one.



Then you're as caucasian as the average North African or Palestine. As I said, is a vague term.




Everyone will have an opinion about this one. Irrelevant.



Eurapid not is equal to European, remember the question about Alberta1 and be honest with yourself.

He's probably Caucasian (I don't know what SSA he has etc) but obviously not European.

You haven't proved DNAtribes is unreliable.

You just don't like it because you don't agree with it.

Plenty of studies show the Spanish are not 100% European eg


Application of f4 Ancestry Estimation suggests that the highest proportion of African ancestry in Europe is in Iberia (Portugal 3.2±0.3% and Spain 2.4±0.3%),

and yes it's about SSA not from Berbers;

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6201/westafricanadmix.png
Moorjani P, Patterson N, Hirschhorn JN, Keinan A, Hao L, et al. (2011) The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews. PLoS Genet 7(4): e1001373. doi:10.1371/journal.pgen.1001373

*According to this study Ashkenazi Jews have the same SSA as Portuguese but the point is the Spanish are racially pure either and the study says about Jews;


We also detect about 3-5% sub-African ancestry in all the Jewish populations, a finding that is novel as far as we are aware, and certainly has not been unambiguously demonstrated or quantified.

[Skerdilaid]

I agree in principle but in practice so many European groups have non-European admixture; basically the whole of Southern and Eastern Europe. Are Finns European? Romanians?

Finns and Romanians are Europeans just like any other European country. The admixture you are questioning is irrelevant in this case because it's to small to have shifted their Europeanes.

In your case you remember what you are and Identify with it, so back to my first post a mix.

[Lábaru]

Ok, the Spanish are not European, we are Martians like the Romanian, or whatever that makes happy to Gigolo(Gypsy), Alberta1(Arab or whatever), Horatio(Jewish American mestizo) ect... and therefore Europeans do not exist in this reality but that is not the topic of the thread, that's a cheap dream, a way for the mestizos trying to be recognized as European.

[Anglojew]

Finns and Romanians are Europeans just like any other European country. The admixture you are questioning is irrelevant in this case because it's to small to have shifted their Europeanes.

In your case you remember what you are and Identify with it, so back to my first post a mix.

But thats one rule for me and another for others. Also, my politics/relgion have nothing to do with this question. I might self-identify with Black Nationalists but it won't make me African.

Is David Beckham European? He's 1/4 Jewish.

Also, the admixture isn't low. Greeks and Southern Italians are less European than I am;


http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-2013-02-11.pdf

[Demhat]

European with significant 'West-Asian' admixture is how I'd think about it.

West Asian is part of the European genetic Landscape. There are Europeans who score as much as 30%. AngloJews score is nothing against this

[Anglojew]

Ok, the Spanish are not European, we are Martians like the Romanian, or whatever that makes happy to Gigolo(Gypsy), Alberta1(Arab or whatever), Horatio(Jewish American mestizo) ect... and therefore Europeans do not exist in this reality but that is not the topic of the thread, that's a cheap dream, a way for the mestizos trying to be recognized as European.

Actually I'm not so sure either Jews or Spaniards, Greeks, Southern Italians are Europeans. I think really someone should have to have 99% European DNA to be considered racially European.

Please look at http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-2013-02-11.pdf

If you dispute the data please let me know on what scientific basis it's wrong.

Edit; I'm going to say 95% European DNA because many groups are around 97%

[Atlantic Islander]

You can post your Eutest and Jtest results over here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?70027-Eurogenes-EUtest-amp-Jtest-for-Europeans&highlight=jtest) too if you'd like. :)

[Anglojew]

West Asian is part of the European genetic Landscape. There are Europeans who score as much as 30%. AngloJews score is nothing against this

True but racially those people aren't entirely European.

[Lábaru]

Actually I'm not so sure either Jews or Spaniards, Greeks, Southern Italians are Europeans. I think really someone should have to have 99% European DNA to be considered racially European.

Please look at http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-2013-02-11.pdf

If you dispute the data please let me know on what scientific basis it's wrong.

Edit; I'm going to say 95% European DNA because many groups are around 97%

then you have the answer that is so important to you, you're not European enough.

[Anglojew]

then you have the answer, you're not European enough.

I'd say I'm a European-Mediterranean hybrid similar to Greeks, Spaniards and Italians.

Pan-Caucasian white might be other description?

[Skerdilaid]

But thats one rule for me and another for others. Also, my politics/relgion have nothing to do with this question. I might self-identify with Black Nationalists but it won't make me African.

Is David Beckham European? He's 1/4 Jewish.

Also, the admixture isn't low. Greeks and Southern Italians are less European than I am;


http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-2013-02-11.pdf

I am not saying that you can't identify with it, just like in Beckahm's case no one would ever know that he isn't European in ancestry. But you know your ancestry so why not cherish both?

Jew's are Semitic so by default you are not Europen, just like the Roma.

Greeks and Italians are European ethnic groups and can only be labeled as such, even if they have mixed with something else.

[Lábaru]

I'd say I'm a European-Mediterranean hybrid similar to Greeks, Spaniards and Italians.

But you said that these are not European populations, so you are not European enough in your mind and that's the answer that you wanted. Anyway you are not close to Spaniards in any map.

[Anglojew]

I am not saying that you can't identify with it, just like in Beckahm's case no one would ever know that he isn't European in ancestry. But you know your ancestry so why not cherish both?

Jew's are Semitic so by default you are not Europen, just like the Roma.

Greeks and Italians are European ethnic groups and can only be labeled as such, even if they have mixed with something else.

I take your point but I still think some Southern European populations are hybrid Med populations even if they're geographically in Europe.

How about this question. What if a Greek Australian and a Jewish Australia both showed idenitical DNA (admixture components eg the same percentage of West Asian etc) ? Is the Greek automatically European even though he doesn't even live in Europe but the Jew isn't?

[Skerdilaid]

All European counties are hybrid of something and each country has it's unique admixture.

I would call them both Australians:)

[Anglojew]

All European counties are hybrid of something and each countries has it's unique admixture.

I would call them both Australians:)

Lol yeah. A lot of the admixture was ancient too probably but at the same time so was the Jewish admixture. If Jews had founded a country in Belarussia, with Yiddish as the official language, then no one could doubt they're Europeaness without also doubting Greeks etc.

[Anglojew]

But you said that these are not European populations, so you are not European enough in your mind and that's the answer that you wanted. Anyway you are not close to Spaniards in any map.

I'm far too Northern European to plot with Spaniards which is the reason I plot with North Italians.

[Atlantic Islander]

...except to point out DNA tribes shows them having 20% non-European admixture on average.

I have to actually add to what others have said about DNA tribes - it's waaaaay off - I mean look at this:

http://imageshack.us/a/img571/9426/4757.png

Portugal is #12, absolutely ridiculous.

[Demhat]

True but racially those people aren't entirely European.

Serbians, Greeks, Croatians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Bosnians, Albanians, Slovenians and even Hungarians are not entirely European?

[Lábaru]

I'm far too Northern European to plot with Spaniards which is the reason I plot with North Italians.

Judging by your genetic results, you must fit with other Ashkenazi/Separdhies, between(half way) the Greeks/Sicilian and the Levantines.

[Swearengen]

dna tribes doesn't look accurate.

[Atlantic Islander]

dna tribes doesn't look accurate.

Indeed.

[Anglojew]

Judging by your genetic results, you must fit with other Ashkenazi/Separdhies, between(half way) the Greeks/Sicilian and the Levantines.

No I plot in Europe on every map.

My criteria for what constitutes a European is a little stricter than yours as you think Med populations with 20%+ West Asian or North African are European while I don't.

[Anglojew]

It's really not accurate at all.

Can you recommend a more accurate source then?

[Atlantic Islander]

Can you recommend a more accurate source then?

Basically anything other than DNA tribes. :p

[Lábaru]

No I plot in Europe on every map.


I do not see those maps, you think post it? because in 13 pages only seem interested in publishing DNAtribes, and that tells me you're not interested in the true.

[Skerdilaid]

No I plot in Europe on every map.

My criteria for what constitutes a European is a little stricter than yours as you think Med populations with 20%+ West Asian or North African are European while I don't.

What constitutes Europe in your opinion?

[Anglojew]

Serbians, Greeks, Croatians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Bosnians, Albanians, Slovenians and even Hungarians are not entirely European?

Each has differing levels of non-European admixure.

[Anglojew]

Serbians, Greeks, Croatians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Bosnians, Albanians, Slovenians and even Hungarians are not entirely European?


I do not see those maps, you think post it? because in 13 pages only seem interested in publishing DNAtribes, and that tells me you're not interested in the true.

Please recommend a better source

[Lábaru]

Please recommend a better source

link all you have, look at the sources of the other threads of users.

[Anglojew]

What constitutes Europe in your opinion?

I'm still deciding but it can't be one rule for Jews and one for everyone else.

[Anglojew]

link all you have, look at the sources of the other threads of users.

So you have no scholarly reason why DNAtribes isn't accurate and you can't recommend any alternatives?

[Lábaru]

So you have no scholarly reason why DNAtribes isn't accurate and you can't recommend any alternatives?

Ok, is obvious you not want to post the other maps.

[Atlantic Islander]

This right here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?91515-Is-Anglojew-European-enough&p=1860719&viewfull=1#post1860719) shows how inaccurate DNA tribes is.

I would say Polako's Eutest is the best atm.

[Equilibrium]

DNA Tribes can't be taken seriously. If you were interested in genealogy, population genetics etc. you would know that.

[asingh]

@AngloJew:

Have you put your Ancestry composition grids up from 23&ME..? Those show decent percentages; in speculative and standard mode. Also what are your haplogroups..? ('Q' I guess). Are all the batteries complete on your 23&ME, sample..? You can also put in the Oracle findings (on admixture) using GEDMatch and use the Eurogenes and Dodecad calculators. The way you have listed the OP it is purely speculative what you actually are, or what should be gleaned off your data results.

[MfA_]

I think you should take a YDNA-STR test from FTDNA.. West Asian specifically Levant and Arabia Q is different than what you can find on Central Asians and Amerindians.. Many Jew get Q without fall in outside West Asian Q..

[Anglojew]

Ok, is obvious you not want to post the other maps.

I'm on my phone. I've asked several times which map you recommend?

[Lábaru]

I'm on my phone. I've asked several times which map you recommend?

This.

@AngloJew:

Have you put your Ancestry composition grids up from 23&ME..? Those show decent percentages; in speculative and standard mode. Also what are your haplogroups..? ('Q' I guess). Are all the batteries complete on your 23&ME, sample..? You can also put in the Oracle findings (on admixture) using GEDMatch and use the Eurogenes and Dodecad calculators. The way you have listed the OP it is purely speculative what you actually are, or what should be gleaned off your data results.

[Anglojew]

Ok, is obvious you not want to post the other maps.

Which maps do you think are good?

[Anglojew]

DNA Tribes can't be taken seriously. If you were interested in genealogy, population genetics etc. you would know that.

Can you recommend anything similar for population comparison by world component?

[asingh]

Which maps do you think are good?

For starters the 23&ME ancestry break up. It shows a circular pie chart. Then the admixture results off GEDMatch using the various calculators tooled for Euro-centric populace. At least put something 'up'; instead of numbers typed by you.

[Zmey Gorynych]

Not by my standards, which would mean no south-asian and middle-eastern and as little west-asian as possible. Isn't ashkenazi also middle-eastern !?

[Dombra]

If not then the Greeks would not European. Its a great + that you fight kebab :)

[Smaug]

Aye, Euro.

[Hevo]

European enough for me, remember that the gedmatch calculators focus on much deeper ancestry than the Ancestry Composition at 23andMe.

[Aunt Hilda]

yes you are :)
welcome to the http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/baltic.png club :D

[Equilibrium]

Can you recommend anything similar for population comparison by world component?

From your OP I get that you have already uploaded your raw data to Gedmatch. The Admixture calculators there are preferable to DNA tribes. Most of those calculators are linked to Oracle, a program that tests admixture proportions of an individual against all the reference populations, but also against the best pairwise combinations of these populations.

When there is no Oracle available like in the case of the J-Test check the population averages of the calculator runs you use. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQOTJFaUlKWkd5TW8/edit?authkey=CO6P06UH&authkey=CO6P06UH
The following are average admixture proportions of Ashkenazi Jews and English:


AJ English
SOUTH_BALTIC 4,91% 12,48%
EAST_EURO 3,15% 10,61%
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 7,59% 29,44%
ATLANTIC 6,15% 26,52%
WEST_MED 10,72% 11,00%
ASHKENAZI 28,90% 3,52%
EAST_MED 20,13% 2,99%
WEST_ASIAN 7,56% 3,22%
MIDDLE_EASTERN 9,09% 0,01%
SOUTH_ASIAN 0,37% 0,15%
EAST_AFRICAN 0,47% 0,06%
EAST_ASIAN 0,42% 0,00%
SIBERIAN 0,48% 0,00%
WEST_AFRICAN 0,07% 0,01%

Your J-Test results seem to be between AJ and English. Just your South-Asian is exceptionally high for both populations.


If you want to see where you plot on a PCA, check the PCA tools of Interpretome. http://esquilax.stanford.edu/
Upload your unzipped raw data, then under the menu Ancestry you find the option PCA. Check the "HGDP: World" and "Mid-East/Jewish" ones, choose 100.000 as resolution.

[SSlava]

I'm half-Jewish but at 14% Ashkenazi DNA I probably am not technically a Mischling in genetic terms but a real Nazi can elaborate on this if they wish?

You Ashkenazi at 50 percent. do not forget the
east med, MIDDLE_EASTERN. even
SOUTH_BALTIC they have.
By the way, I have Jews from Galicia in the
matches.
I wonder how is this possible? within 4-5
generations of Jews nay in my family
tree. My ancestors only Cossacks, Ukrainians and
Russian.

[SSlava]

I think the Jews have a Slavic
admixture.

as well in the matches I have Irish, Hungarians,
Italians and Slovaks.

[SkyBurn]

I think the Jews have a Slavic
admixture

Yes. A very prominent admixture.

[mr. logan]

Anglojew = the new Gigolo.

[Vojnik]

Anglojew, I think you are European enough. You cluster closer to Europeans then any other group and you display mostly European in you gedmatch jtest calculator. Balkanites, Italians and Iberians get more European then you on average though.

[glass]

neither anglojew nor any other jew is european
they are middle eastern brown people

[SkyBurn]

neither anglojew nor any other jew is european
they are middle eastern brown people

:laugh:

I've gotta say, I've never been called a brown person before! I get to tick that off my list now!

[Vojnik]

Anglojew, can you post your MDLP world22 results and oracle results from gedmatch? The Oracle will show you populations you are closest to.

[Vojnik]

neither anglojew nor any other jew is european
they are middle eastern brown people

He gets nowhere near typical results of the average middle easterner.

[Demhat]

He looks European. And he genetically plots as Tuscan what else if not European is he?

[SSlava]

neither anglojew nor any other jew is european
they are middle eastern brown people

Jews have Slavic admixture.

[Insuperable]

If you're 70+% European and don't have any significant SSA or mongoloid DNA, I don't see why you shouldn't be considered white.


1. I agree there's no point bringing the Spanish into this because this is about me (except to point out DNA tribes shows them having 20% non-European admixture on average).

2. The difference is that in Latin America the other 30% is non-Caucasian.

3. I guess the question could be broken down into;

-Is Anglojew Caucasian?

The answer to which is yes, 100%

- Is Anglojew white?

The answer to which is clearly yes.

-Is Anglojew European (Eurapid) racially?

The answer to which is probably borderline but then many other European groups eg Romanians must also be borderline.


I'm not sure I agree there. I personally believe that even though he is 1/4 Jamaican, he is genetically predominantly caucasian and looks it. The ordinary person doesn't care about genetic results. The ordinary person slots people into racial categories on how they appear.

Anyway, that discussion is OT :)

:picard2:

To be white you have to have Graham's or Pallantides's or any other similar genome. Not all Caucasians are white so it is a fucked up term and means nothing for an average European.

So Anglojew, while you at least may be European you are definitely not white.

[King Claus]

you probably fit in sicily or something similar to that.
Maybe romania would be a good fit aswell because you could also be a gypsy, since you're also more asian and middle eastern than negro.

[A1234567]

You are half Jewish, of course you're not European enough.

[SkyBurn]

You are half Jewish, of course you're not European enough.

Hey, at least he has a culture ;)

[A1234567]

Hey, at least he has a culture ;)

I'm not judging him, I'm just saying that being European is not strictly a genetic thing. It's about blood and culture.

[Cristiano viejo]

He would be considered 'white' regardless. As I say often, 'whiteness' in the regular sense is entirely appearance based.

We have already discussed this before.
The phenotype is not everything when we want to determine the origin of someone.
If it were, Wenworth Miller could pass for White for many people, being his father Black... Actually there are many examples.


Anglojew, why are you even seeking approval with this thread anyway? You're better than this! :p

And here is the proof what I am saying. According Dustin, he needs to confirm his Whiteness or Europeaness through genetic.

He is clearly a mestizo (yes, mestizo. This word was invented in Spain for call so everybody with Spanish and Amerindian ancestry, but from some time ago, we use this term for call everybody with origins of at least two races) genetically, as it proof his high (in total) percentages about Middle East, Askenazi, West and South Asian, and even Europe.
Someone with around 30% of its genetic pool from extraeuropean origin can not be considered European in any way.

[Damião de Góis]

You seem to be halfway between Jews and the English, which is around Tuscany on McDonald's map (and on any other map). Seems accurate to me.

[Graham]

According to the JTest my results are as follows;

36882

According to this, I'm about 73.5% "European" and the remainder other Caucasian groupings (West Asian, Middle-Eastern, South-Asian, Ashkenazi), not counting Ashkenazi as European, or about 88% European, if you consider Ashkenazis' Europeans.

I seem to be plotting in Tuscany according to Gedmatch and others.

So, am I a European, or an Inter-Caucasian hybrid?

East Med actually peaks in the Middle East also, from what I can remember.

[Mark]

You seem to be halfway between Jews and the English, which is around Tuscany on McDonald's map (and on any other map). Seems accurate to me.
I'm mostly Ashkenazi, but seem to cluster closer to Italy than Cyprus; at least on these maps...

http://i.imgur.com/VVeCbFQ.png

http://i.imgur.com/dPKFlHZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ocGiDPv.png

[B01AB20]

what's so great about europeaness that (practically) everybody wants their share of it?, even the ones who have been rejected in a steadily and forceful way throughtout history by most of european nations, like the jews or gypsies.

anglojew don't you feel somewhat masochist claiming your europeanness?

I have more than enough with my iberianness, what others think about my whiteness or europeanness has no relevance to me, I have my own native country where I'm like the rest of people and the rest of people are like me, more or less, I have a nation and I'm a native of that nation.

If I'm european or not is secondary.

[Fire Haired]

When i was looking at Ash Jews from Germany globe13 results and compared them to Smartens who are 100% from Israel they did not have a drop of European blood. i think they they left jews over 2,000ybp their mentioned in the new testment like the story of the good smartien . Pretty much what i found out is u can say they are about 60% European and 40% southwest Asian. I looked at jews in Spain, Arabia, Iran, Iraq and in all fo those places they keep surprisingly high amounts of original Jewish blood. everywhere they went they were about 60% of those people and 40% southwest asian. Also ash European percentages did not match Germans at all. It was kind of wierd it seems like they inter marreied with Europeans were west Asian is higher than most of Europe, Because southwest asian is above west asian in Syrai-Isreal area but for ash west asian was higher Greeks have more west asian than Samrtiens. And other things made it seem like Ash Jews inter married mainly with Europeans from around Greece and southeast Europe then went up to Germany and probably mixed alittle with Germans.

I always thought Jews had almost 100% European blood because they look so white. But the Smartiens look surprisingly white too event though they are 100% from Isreal possibly 100% from ancient Jews.

Here are some examples of Smartiens during passover one even had red hair and freckles which makes me wonder if Jewish red hair is not from inter marriage with Europeans.
http://static3.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/600-2/photos/1303134607-samaritans-passover-sacrifice-at-mount-grizim_662422.jpghttp://static2.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/600-0/photos/1303134632-samaritans-passover-sacrifice-at-mount-grizim_662410.jpghttp://www.vosizneias.com/assets/uploads/news_photos/thumbnails/800_70102f3040c170f25c8f402e373f1bd9.JPGhttp://static2.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1700-8/photos/1359094121-the-samaritan-passover-sacrifice-on-mount-gerizim_1748528.jpghttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcST-OUwOqgCoyyhWcqUso4vF8x4wrKLCivKvPOjbWRHbRq0l_bGQAh ttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Flickr_-_Government_Press_Office_(GPO)_-_Samaritans_praying_during_Passover_holiday_ceremo ny_on_mount_Grizim.jpg/1280px-Flickr_-_Government_Press_Office_(GPO)_-_Samaritans_praying_during_Passover_holiday_ceremo ny_on_mount_Grizim.jpg

[Fire Haired]

anglojew is ur avatar Joesphus

[Graham]

I'm mostly Ashkenazi, but seem to cluster closer to Italy than Cyprus; at least on these maps...


Can remember when I did that K36 map, you sort of came close to the Greeks & South Italians. Am actually in the process of making a better map. :P

[Mark]

Can remember when I did that K36 map, you sort of came close to the Greeks & South Italians. Am actually in the process of making a better map. :P
Vaguely remember. I think I average around Sicily from all I have seen. I am usually south of N. Italy and west of Cyprus. I think McDonald may have put me in Athens.

[Anglojew]

When i was looking at Ash Jews from Germany globe13 results and compared them to Smartens who are 100% from Israel they did not have a drop of European blood. i think they they left jews over 2,000ybp their mentioned in the new testment like the story of the good smartien . Pretty much what i found out is u can say they are about 60% European and 40% southwest Asian. I looked at jews in Spain, Arabia, Iran, Iraq and in all fo those places they keep surprisingly high amounts of original Jewish blood. everywhere they went they were about 60% of those people and 40% southwest asian. Also ash European percentages did not match Germans at all. It was kind of wierd it seems like they inter marreied with Europeans were west Asian is higher than most of Europe, Because southwest asian is above west asian in Syrai-Isreal area but for ash west asian was higher Greeks have more west asian than Samrtiens. And other things made it seem like Ash Jews inter married mainly with Europeans from around Greece and southeast Europe then went up to Germany and probably mixed alittle with Germans.

I always thought Jews had almost 100% European blood because they look so white. But the Smartiens look surprisingly white too event though they are 100% from Isreal possibly 100% from ancient Jews.

Here are some examples of Smartiens during passover one even had red hair and freckles which makes me wonder if Jewish red hair is not from inter marriage with Europeans.
http://static3.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/600-2/photos/1303134607-samaritans-passover-sacrifice-at-mount-grizim_662422.jpghttp://static2.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/600-0/photos/1303134632-samaritans-passover-sacrifice-at-mount-grizim_662410.jpghttp://www.vosizneias.com/assets/uploads/news_photos/thumbnails/800_70102f3040c170f25c8f402e373f1bd9.JPGhttp://static2.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1700-8/photos/1359094121-the-samaritan-passover-sacrifice-on-mount-gerizim_1748528.jpghttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcST-OUwOqgCoyyhWcqUso4vF8x4wrKLCivKvPOjbWRHbRq0l_bGQAh ttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Flickr_-_Government_Press_Office_(GPO)_-_Samaritans_praying_during_Passover_holiday_ceremo ny_on_mount_Grizim.jpg/1280px-Flickr_-_Government_Press_Office_(GPO)_-_Samaritans_praying_during_Passover_holiday_ceremo ny_on_mount_Grizim.jpg

I think West Asians were once white whereas today many have other elements but their original form is showed best in endogamous ethnoreligious groups like Druze, Alawites and Samaratans.

[Anglojew]

anglojew is ur avatar Joesphus

Yes.

[A1234567]

Can remember when I did that K36 map, you sort of came close to the Greeks & South Italians. Am actually in the process of making a better map. :P

What would someone have to do to be included in this map?

[curupira]

Here are some examples of Smartiens during passover one even had red hair and freckles which makes me wonder if Jewish red hair is not from inter marriage with Europeans.

King David is described in the bible as having had a ruddy complexion:

This is how King David is described in the bible:

1 Samuel Chapter 16

12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of beautiful eyes, and goodly to look upon.
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et08a16.htm

[Fire Haired]

it said he was ruddy that could mean reddish skin. There are alot of people like that. If he had red hair i am sure it would say directly his hair was red.

[curupira]

Esau is another one described as being ruddy:


Genesis 25:25 narrates Esau's birth, "Now the first came forth, red all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau." In Hebrew, the name Esau means "hairy" (Heb: se’ir) a wordplay on Seir,[9] the region he settled in Edom after being 40 years of age where he became the progenitor of the Edomites. The name Edom is also attributed to Esau, meaning "red" (Heb: `admoni);[9] the same color describing Esau's skintone (Genesis 25:25). Genesis parallels his redness to the "red lentil pottage" that he sold his birthright for (Genesis 25:30).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esau

[curupira]

it said he was ruddy that could mean reddish skin. There are alot of people like that. If he had red hair i am sure it would say directly his hair was red.

According to the Jewish tradition, he was red haired, though:


1 Samuel 16:12 "And he sent and brought him in. Now he was ruddy and had beautiful eyes and was handsome. And the LORD said, "Arise, anoint him, for this is he." - Holy Bible; English Standard Version.[32] 1 Samuel 17:41-43 "And the Philistine moved forward and came near to David, with his shield-bearer in front of him. And when the Philistine looked and saw David, he disdained him, for he was but a youth, ruddy and handsome in appearance."[33]

The Hebrew word for 'ruddy' used in the above passages is admoni (ואדמני), from the root ADM (אדם, see also Adam and Edom).[34][35][36][37] "Admoni", reddish-brown, was the ideal colour for men, and indicates David's heroic nature.[38] Despite the fact his hair is not mentioned in the passages, the description led to a later Sephardic and Ashkenazi tradition that David was a red-head.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David

[Stormer99]

We have already discussed this before.
The phenotype is not everything when we want to determine the origin of someone.
If it were, Wenworth Miller could pass for White for many people, being his father Black... Actually there are many examples.



And here is the proof what I am saying. According Dustin, he needs to confirm his Whiteness or Europeaness through genetic.

He is clearly a mestizo (yes, mestizo. This word was invented in Spain for call so everybody with Spanish and Amerindian ancestry, but from some time ago, we use this term for call everybody with origins of at least two races) genetically, as it proof his high (in total) percentages about Middle East, Askenazi, West and South Asian, and even Europe.
Someone with around 30% of its genetic pool from extraeuropean origin can not be considered European in any way.


If having 30% Middle Eastern ancestry makes someone not European it would make a lot of Europeans not really European.

[Fire Haired]

I think West Asians were once white whereas today many have other elements but their original form is showed best in endogamous ethnoreligious groups like Druze, Alawites and Samaratans.

I am suprised how pale those people are. But i really doubt westa sians used to be as white as europeans. When u look at globe13 aust dna the Caucasin family breaks down like this in brother groups. North Euro(Paleoithic Euro aka White)-west asian, med-southwest asian. North Euro and west asian are closer than any two human groups much much closer than southwest asian and meditreaen.

Here is a map i made of west asian.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=36897&d=1377816355

There are other pale skinned mid eastern like Georgians and some caucus people who have the highest amount of west asian. But since north Africans and arabs who are like another branch of the Caucasian family are brown skinned just like Iranians it would make alot more sense. Since humans orignalley had brown eyes, black hair, and dark skin it would make sense that with Caucasians brownish skin came first. It is true that the genes that are suppose to cause pale skin in Europeans are about as popular in all Caucasians click here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?91397-Supposedly-Euro-light-skin-genes-are-popular-in-all-Caucasins-and-exists-in-about-all-Humans).

[Fire Haired]

According to the Jewish tradition, he was red haired, though:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David

I know there are smartien redheads and they have no european blood 100% from Isrela probably 100% from ancient Jews. But since Ash and Spanish jews could have adopted that idea because they saw european redheads.most of spain has less than 1% red hair and seph and ash jew i think were never together while in europe. they could have gotten the idea from christians. They probably had contcat while in europe. Now i think it is possible David was a redhead or at least later on people said he was because they miss understood the bible verse.

[Vesuvian Sky]

West Asian is part of the European...

I've already noted how 'West Asian' genes represent an archaic component to the European gene pool.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?91515-Is-Anglojew-European-enough&p=1860681&viewfull=1#post1860681

However, it is not the most archaic of the European components nor does it originate in Europe. Its earliest arrival would have more to do with Neolithic farmers from the Near East. Later waves of migrations from said area probably contributed to higher frequencies in certain parts of Europe.

[Insuperable]

If having 30% Middle Eastern ancestry makes someone not European it would make a lot of Europeans not really European.

Obviously those people are European, just not white.

[Stormer99]

I've already noted how 'West Asian' genes represent an archaic component to the European gene pool.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?91515-Is-Anglojew-European-enough&p=1860681&viewfull=1#post1860681

However, it is not the most archaic of the European components nor does it originate in Europe. Its earliest arrival would have more to do with Neolithic farmers from the Near East. Later waves of migrations from said area probably contributed to higher frequencies in certain parts of Europe.


Would East Med be considered European or no?

[Stormer99]

Obviously those people are European, just not white.

No. They are not different enough to be a different race than a 100% European.

[Insuperable]

No. They are not different enough to be a different race than a 100% European.

And why the fuck should anyone care what you think is a different race? Especially you who is half Lebanese, half Sicilian pretending to be fully Siclian (that is what I have read about you. If it is not true then neglect that).

[curupira]

Now i think it is possible David was a redhead or at least later on people said he was because they miss understood the bible verse.

The word employed in the bible is 'admoni':


admoni: red, ruddy
Original Word: אַדְמוֹנִי
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: admoni
Phonetic Spelling: (ad-mo-nee')
Short Definition: ruddy
http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/132.htm

[Vesuvian Sky]

Would East Med be considered European or no?

Well here's the reference map for it per Eurogenes K36:

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/599/pzgs.png

It has its greatest frequency outside of Europe around the Levant. Also if you scroll down this txt doc. you'll see its Levantine populations used for this component:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQUlVTRmxQdGpZdW8/edit?pli=1

Based on the above its likely another Near Eastern Neolithic component or spread later on into parts of Europe by Phoenicians.

[Philo]

Why do you care about being European so much? Just be a good person and defend Western Civilization against Islam.


Well here's the reference map for it per Eurogenes K36:

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/599/pzgs.png

It has its greatest frequency outside of Europe around the Levant. Also if you scroll down this txt doc. you'll see its Levantine populations used for this component:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQUlVTRmxQdGpZdW8/edit?pli=1

Based on the above its likely another Near Eastern Neolithic component or spread later on into parts of Europe by Phoenicians.

So I'm 20% of the component most likely most common among Judeans?

[Stormer99]

Well here's the reference map for it per Eurogenes K36:

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/599/pzgs.png

It has its greatest frequency outside of Europe around the Levant. Also if you scroll down this txt doc. you'll see its Levantine populations used for this component:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQUlVTRmxQdGpZdW8/edit?pli=1

Based on the above its likely another Near Eastern Neolithic component or spread later on into parts of Europe by Phoenicians.

So how can you tell what percent European you are genetically on the EU test?

[Vesuvian Sky]

So how can you tell what percent European you are genetically on the EU test?

Tally all the genetic categories that have geographically specific European titles (Iberian, French, North Sea etc.) and that should give you an idea.

[Vesuvian Sky]

So I'm 20% of the component most likely most common among Judeans?

Judeans would have probably had other ME components like 'West Asian' and what not. What we really need is aDNA from ancient Judea to show all the components.

[Philo]

Judeans would have probably had other ME components like 'West Asian' and what not. What we really need is aDNA from ancient Judea to show all the components.

Yeah I have that too obviously.

[Vesuvian Sky]

Yeah I have that too obviously.

Are you Sephardic btw?

[Cristiano viejo]

If having 30% Middle Eastern ancestry makes someone not European it would make a lot of Europeans not really European.

:noidea:

do you think seriously that a person with 70% of European ancestry, and 30% of Negroid ancestry, is European?? :rolleyes:

btw Dustin Hoffman has not 30% of Middle Eastern ancestry, in his 30% non European ancestry you can find Middle East, yes but Askenazi, and West and South Asian too. He is a good mix, for sure.

[YeshAtid]

:noidea:

do you think seriously that a person with 70% of European ancestry, and 30% of Negroid ancestry, is European?? :rolleyes:

btw Dustin Hoffman has not 30% of Middle Eastern ancestry, in his 30% non European ancestry you can find Middle East, yes but Askenazi, and West and South Asian too. He is a good mix, for sure.

He's probably more European than the average Spaniard

[Philo]

Are you Sephardic btw?

All evidence points to that conclusion. Not recent though. On the K36 test I'm 19.86 East-Med, 13.38% Near_Eastern, 5.60% West_Caucasian, 5.44% Arabian, and 4.72% Armenian. I suppose ancient Judeans likely had those components too?

:noidea:

do you think seriously that a person with 70% of European ancestry, and 30% of Negroid ancestry, is European?? :rolleyes:

btw Dustin Hoffman has not 30% of Middle Eastern ancestry, in his 30% non European ancestry you can find Middle East, yes but Askenazi, and West and South Asian too. He is a good mix, for sure.

Your people have level and probably more SSA than Jews. Especially the Portugese :lol:

[Vesuvian Sky]

All evidence points to that conclusion. Not recent though. On the K36 test I'm 19.86 East-Med, 13.38% Near_Eastern, 5.60% West_Caucasian, 5.44% Arabian, and 4.72% Armenian. I suppose ancient Judeans likely had those components too?

Of these, almost certainly yes to all. Thanks.

[Stormer99]

:noidea:

do you think seriously that a person with 70% of European ancestry, and 30% of Negroid ancestry, is European?? :rolleyes:

btw Dustin Hoffman has not 30% of Middle Eastern ancestry, in his 30% non European ancestry you can find Middle East, yes but Askenazi, and West and South Asian too. He is a good mix, for sure.

Someone 70% European and 30% Middle Eastern would cluster in Europe on a genetic map. The same wouldn't happen with someone 30% Black.

[Anglojew]

Here's my global similarity maps from 23andme (because people asked for them);

36898

36899

[Insuperable]

Someone 70% European and 30% Middle Eastern would cluster in Europe on a genetic map. The same wouldn't happen with someone 30% Black.

That 30% if of the ancient source of course. But if you think that if due to mixing in present time someone acquired those proportions would be European or white, he or she would not be considered white nor would they be white. Example - some European has a generation back parent who is partially of Middle Eastern origin in modern sense.

In any case neolithic source or not I don't consider such Europeans as white.

[Atlantic Islander]

Your people have level and probably more SSA than Jews. Especially the Portugese :lol:

SSA?

[Stormer99]

That 30% if of the ancient source of course. But if you think that if due to mixing in present time someone acquired those proportions would be European or white, he or she would not be considered white nor would they be white. Example - some European has a generation back parent who is partially of Middle Eastern origin in modern sense.

In any case neolithic source or not I don't consider such Europeans as white.

Someone 30% from the Modern source would still cluster in Europe. Ancient components and modern components are similar.

[Insuperable]

Someone 30% from the Modern source would still cluster in Europe. Ancient components and modern components are similar.

1. Many people explained you (or tried to explain it to you, but you won't listen) that it is not the same since through out thousands of years people have acquired their own characteristics and mutations.
2. Modern Middle Easterners are not 100% the same as the those 2000 or 3000 BC (despite modern populations being used as a reference population)
3. Nobody shares your view in modern Europe
4. You are partially a Lebanese so it is not strange for you to think that way
5. Lines have to drawn somewhere or with your thinking in some distant times in the future there would be no proper Europeans.

[Stormer99]

1. Many people explained you (or tried to explain it to you, but you won't listen) that it is not the same since through out thousands of years people have acquired their own characteristics and mutations.
2. Modern Middle Easterners are not 100% the same as the those 2000 or 3000 BC (despite modern populations being used as a reference population)
3. Nobody shares your view in modern Europe
4. You are partially a Lebanese so it is not strange for you to think that way
5. Lines have to drawn somewhere or with your thinking in some distant times in the future there would be no proper Europeans.

http://imageshack.us/a/img560/7454/alj.gif

Here is where I cluster on a genetic map:
Read it and weep
It doesn't matter how people view things. Genetically I am European. Science supports my views. If you want to argue with science it's your problem. My components on genetic tests are similar to pure Southeast Europeans.

[Stormer99]

I am genetically more European than a Cypriot. This is what science says.

[just]

Do you have lots of R1b and I1(I1b too)?
Btw, the Q haplo is Hunnic and Central Asian, I think you'd have rather J1 or J2...

[Demhat]

I've already noted how 'West Asian' genes represent an archaic component to the European gene pool.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?91515-Is-Anglojew-European-enough&p=1860681&viewfull=1#post1860681

However, it is not the most archaic of the European components nor does it originate in Europe. Its earliest arrival would have more to do with Neolithic farmers from the Near East. Later waves of migrations from said area probably contributed to higher frequencies in certain parts of Europe.


It did not reach Europe with Neolithic and is not the only component in Europe which originated in the Near East for f. Sake you are the only weird dude I have came a cross who still insist on early Neolithic origin of West Asian component while the clear signal comes from the Mediterranean. The West Asian signal is way too low among tested Neolithic individuals, even in the Balkans to be the source component.

Mediterranean is a component which formed outside of Europe there might have some arrived Europe a thousand years prior Neolithic but it's main bulk came with the Neolithic and this doesn't get through your head. Even though Dienekes disagrees with you, DNAtribes disagrees with you, Max Planck institute disagrees with you.

And just because something did not originate in Europe it doesn't count as such? What kind of logic is that? So according to you, Haplogroup R*, J*, E*, G*, T* are not European since they originated outside.

Mediterranean is just an offshoot of the "Southern" component in the lower Ks. It has a Neolithic origin. I don't want to start this discussion again with you since whenever you where pushed into a corner with your "arguments" your words became harsh.

[Insuperable]

http://imageshack.us/a/img560/7454/alj.gif

Here is where I cluster on a genetic map:
Read it and weep
It doesn't matter how people view things. Genetically I am European. Science supports my views. If you want to argue with science it's your problem. My components on genetic tests are similar to pure Southeast Europeans.

So you just showed me an Euroegens Jtest or an EUtest 2D test and with one of many possible combination of principle components for X or Y axis. If you posted PC1 vs PC2 ok, but I doubt it is something similar to that since it says PC5. On some of the combinations I cluster with Swedes xD.

Do me a favor! Go to Interpretome.com right now and post here the cluster painting of HGDP:world (post PC1 vs PC2). I bet you would end up in the Middle Eastern cluster. If you can remember of any other site which will provide cluster information please do post. Where did Mcdonald put you?

[Vesuvian Sky]

It did not reach Europe with Neolithic and is not the only component in Europe which originated in the Near East for f. Sake you are the only weird dude I have came a cross who still insist on early Neolithic origin of West Asian component while the clear signal comes from the Mediterranean. Mediterranean is a component which formed outside of Europe and this doesn't get through your head.

Absurd statement.:rolleyes:

I suppose you want everyone to believe 'West Asian' = 100% European and entered Europe in some mythical mystical time unknown.

Please, save the comedy show for elsewhere.:laugh:



I don't want to start this discussion again with you since whenever you where pushed into a corner with your "arguments" your words became harsh.

Lol! I seriously think you need a time out or need to get a life. You simply can't freak out over someone else's opinion like you always do. I suggest you also learn how to read a map.

[Ibericus]

It's part of a Jewish agenda if you don't like it right?
Sorry dude, you have Moor blood.
That study is based on haplotypes, not haplogroups. Which means out of the people who have E3b-Em81, which ones are haplotype Va or Vb. So, these percentages like 25% and such, is not of the overall population, but of the population that has E3b. Overall the berber subclade E-M81 in Spain is low, around 4%, and is mostly of pre-historic origin. But that's only paternal lineages. On a Genome-wide level , (autosomal dna) the north-african admixture is very low (2-3%) but it's not easy to determine, since north-african themselves also have ancient Iberian/West Med ancestry.

[Annihilus]

Anglojew, run Jtest without Ashkenazi (eu test) so you can see where the Ashkenazi comes from.

[Anglojew]

http://imageshack.us/a/img560/7454/alj.gif

Here is where I cluster on a genetic map:
Read it and weep
It doesn't matter how people view things. Genetically I am European. Science supports my views. If you want to argue with science it's your problem. My components on genetic tests are similar to pure Southeast Europeans.

According to that you're an Ashkenazi Jew.

[Insuperable]

Absurd statement.:rolleyes:

I suppose you want everyone to believe 'West Asian' = 100% European and entered Europe in some mythical mystical time unknown.

Please, save the comedy show for elsewhere.:laugh:

So do you think that West Asian component is of early or late neolithic origin?

[Annihilus]

Also question to full Euro's, show me Jtest results with 0 Ashkenazi, you can't

[Vesuvian Sky]

So do you think that West Asian component is of early or late neolithic origin?

Oetzi per one of the calcs had a very real West Asian result at 6% and he dates back to c. 3,300 bc. Here is the calc that shows it:


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Aif8O5EXGNI/UI7Frkq91DI/AAAAAAAAHEw/ZLHV2wQwi4U/s640/globe13.png

However, other calcs assigned components to him differently. West Asian genes could be entering Europe though as early as the Cardial Ware or Starcevo Koros Kris archaeological horizons. Results can vary per individual of course and hopefully we'll get autosomal components from such ancient specimens to know for sure.

[Anglojew]

I am suprised how pale those people are. But i really doubt westa sians used to be as white as europeans. When u look at globe13 aust dna the Caucasin family breaks down like this in brother groups. North Euro(Paleoithic Euro aka White)-west asian, med-southwest asian. North Euro and west asian are closer than any two human groups much much closer than southwest asian and meditreaen.

Here is a map i made of west asian.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=36897&d=1377816355

There are other pale skinned mid eastern like Georgians and some caucus people who have the highest amount of west asian. But since north Africans and arabs who are like another branch of the Caucasian family are brown skinned just like Iranians it would make alot more sense. Since humans orignalley had brown eyes, black hair, and dark skin it would make sense that with Caucasians brownish skin came first. It is true that the genes that are suppose to cause pale skin in Europeans are about as popular in all Caucasians click here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?91397-Supposedly-Euro-light-skin-genes-are-popular-in-all-Caucasins-and-exists-in-about-all-Humans).

Not as white as Northern Europeans just fair-skinned Caucasians similar to modern Caucasians (eg people from the Caucasus) I'd say.

[Annihilus]

I think West Asians were once white whereas today many have other elements but their original form is showed best in endogamous ethnoreligious groups like Druze, Alawites and Samaratans.


North euro component is closest to west-asian, but I don't think those three groups represent west-asian the best.

[Demhat]

Absurd statement.:rolleyes:

I suppose you want everyone to believe 'West Asian' = 100% European and entered Europe in some mythical mystical time unknown.

Please, save the comedy show for elsewhere.:laugh:



Lol! I seriously think you need a time out or need to get a life. You simply can't freak out over someone else's opinion like you always do. I suggest you also learn how to read a map.


Vesuvian Sky after trying with my best to convince you about something any normal person was convinced about after the whole farmer DNA was sequenced. I gave it up.

Also its just ridiculous to come out your mouth. Since you where the one who started with harsh words in our Discussion.

Here is the whole discussion.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?87636-The-Proto-West-Asian-Look/page4


trying to explain something to you is a waste of time.

Here maybe Dienekes can convince you. That you are not the remands of Uber Paleolithic Europeans who survived in the Caves.
http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/09/ie-speaking-west-europeans-are-west.html

[Demhat]

North euro component is closest to west-asian, but I don't think those three groups represent west-asian the best.

The best to represent West Asian is unfortunately non existent any more. Georgians come closest, yet Georgians have some Southwest Asian/Med or "Southern" component while Baloch too much South- and Southwest Asian.

[Stormer99]

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3165/8o1.gif
Still European in the 1 by 2
READ IT AND WEEP Solin

[Annihilus]

The best to represent West Asian is unfortunately non existent any more. Georgians come closest, yet Georgians have some Southwest Asian/Med or "Southern" component while Baloch too much South- and Southwest Asian.

That would imply some kind of pure isolate I think never existed, it's too busy of a highway the world was populated.

[Insuperable]

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3165/8o1.gif
Still European in the 1 by 2
READ IT AND WEEP Solin

Those EUtest plots are crap. Post me the results I asked!

[Stormer99]

Those EUtest plots are crap. Post me the results I asked!

Why is the EU test crap? It's by far the most accurate. I plot in Europe and it clearly angers you.

[Insuperable]

Why is the EU test crap? It's by far the most accurate. I plot in Europe and it clearly angers you.

Okay. They, eutest and jtest plots are the most accurate, now please post what I asked you.

[Fire Haired]

Solin there is no doubt Siclians and all Italians are mainly European. The fact that they are white is pretty good evidence. Also that they live in the same continent with other pale skinned people it would make sense they are all related. It is true they have more mid eastern than almost all Europeans besides Greeks. In the globe13 aust dna test Greeks and Southern and central Italians had 20-24% west asian and 15-18% southwest asian when u add their southwest asian west asian stuff and compare they most likely inter married with mid easterns from around Syria-Iraq area i would bet in Greco Roman times. Since Sardine have much less southwest asian and west asian around the same amount as Otzie the ice man did 5,300 year old farmer from alps italy. Just saying Sardine people look no diff from Itlains even though genetically Italians have alot more brown skinned mid eastern blood. So i guess it did not change how they look that much. Overall Italians defintley are mainly European.

[Insuperable]

Solin there is no doubt Siclians and all Italians are mainly European. The fact that they are white is pretty good evidence. Also that they live in the same continent with other pale skinned people it would make sense they are all related. It is true they have more mid eastern than almost all Europeans besides Greeks. In the globe13 aust dna test Greeks and Southern and central Italians had 20-24% west asian and 15-18% southwest asian when u add their southwest asian west asian stuff and compare they most likely inter married with mid easterns from around Syria-Iraq area i would bet in Greco Roman times. Since Sardine have much less southwest asian and west asian around the same amount as Otzie the ice man did 5,300 year old farmer from alps italy. Just saying Sardine people look no diff from Itlains even though genetically Italians have alot more brown skinned mid eastern blood. So i guess it did not change how they look that much. Overall Italians defintley are mainly European.

Yes, they are European, but not white. Southern Europeans are not white.

[Stormer99]

Yes, they are European, but not white. Southern Europeans are not white.

They are not far enough to constitute a separate race troll. Also some Southern Europeans cluster in Central Europe.

[Anglojew]

I know there are smartien redheads and they have no european blood 100% from Isrela probably 100% from ancient Jews. But since Ash and Spanish jews could have adopted that idea because they saw european redheads.most of spain has less than 1% red hair and seph and ash jew i think were never together while in europe. they could have gotten the idea from christians. They probably had contcat while in europe. Now i think it is possible David was a redhead or at least later on people said he was because they miss understood the bible verse.

The stereotype of Jews having redhair existed in both Spain and Eastern Europe.

[Alenka]

Let me tell you something about the one drop rule: nearly EVERYBODY in Europe would fail.

I agree in principle but in practice so many European groups have non-European admixture; basically the whole of Southern and Eastern Europe. Are Finns European? Romanians?
The difference is that in the case of admixed European populations, the admixture is distant and pretty constant for that whole population. On the other hand, admix in the case of Stephen Graham is not constant for WASP population, which means it's not the norm. Plus it's recent enough to have a face: a grandparent.

[Vesuvian Sky]

Ves...

Let's just cut to the chase: You want everyone to accept 'West Asian' as European so you can be European. Seriously Dehmat, give it a rest. And there's simply no point in explaining things to you again which you clearly are incapable of understanding.

[Anglojew]

Do you have lots of R1b and I1(I1b too)?
Btw, the Q haplo is Hunnic and Central Asian, I think you'd have rather J1 or J2...

Me? No, I'm Q. Surprised me too. I think it is related to Hunnic populations.

[Fire Haired]

Yes, they are European, but not white. Southern Europeans are not white.

They are in the same family as Finnish, French, German, Polish and whatever they are white. They are darker pigmented but the majority of their ancestry is the same. Also southern Europeans are not all related. If u look at Y DNa the only connection with Greeks and Italians is their Neolithic and mid eastern groups J1, J2, E V13. The pre Neolithic Y DNA haplogroup of Greeks is I2a1b like other eastern Europeans for Italians I2a1a like French and Iberian they also have some I2a2 which could be from later Germanic migrations or random inter marriage probably not in pre Neolithic Italy. Overall Italians and Greeks dont seem related makes sense since Italians live in west Europe Greeks in east Europe. Sure they could easily have contact in Greco Roman times but think about in the Neolithic and caveman Mesolithic Paleolithic times.

[Fire Haired]

Me? No, I'm Q. Surprised me too. I think it is related to Hunnic populations.

is ur lastname Jewish like does ur direct line go to jews or europe.

[Stormer99]

They are in the same family as Finnish, French, German, Polish and whatever they are white. They are darker pigmented but the majority of their ancestry is the same. Also southern Europeans are not all related. If u look at Y DNa the only connection with Greeks and Italians is their Neolithic and mid eastern groups J1, J2, E V13. The pre Neolithic Y DNA haplogroup of Greeks is I2a1b like other eastern Europeans for Italians I2a1a like French and Iberian they also have some I2a2 which could be from later Germanic migrations or random inter marriage probably not in pre Neolithic Italy. Overall Italians and Greeks dont seem related makes sense since Italians live in west Europe Greeks in east Europe. Sure they could easily have contact in Greco Roman times but think about in the Neolithic and caveman Mesolithic Paleolithic times.

Southern Italians are much more related to Greeks than Iberians. It's a fact. If it were not true Sicilians would not be getting Greek in the 4 ways.

[Stormer99]

There is no population on Earth more related to Sicilians and Southern Italians than the Greeks.

[Insuperable]

They are not far enough to constitute a separate race troll. Also some Southern Europeans cluster in Central Europe.

And who cares what half Sicilian half Lebanese think of race. The point is that white is what northern European perceive as white not what you or Somalian think is white.


They are in the same family as Finnish, French, German, Polish and whatever they are white. They are darker pigmented but the majority of their ancestry is the same. Also southern Europeans are not all related. If u look at Y DNa the only connection with Greeks and Italians is their Neolithic and mid eastern groups J1, J2, E V13. The pre Neolithic Y DNA haplogroup of Greeks is I2a1b like other eastern Europeans for Italians I2a1a like French and Iberian they also have some I2a2 which could be from later Germanic migrations or random inter marriage probably not in pre Neolithic Italy. Overall Italians and Greeks dont seem related makes sense since Italians live in west Europe Greeks in east Europe. Sure they could easily have contact in Greco Roman times but think about in the Neolithic and caveman Mesolithic Paleolithic times.

The same family with this guy?
http://www.google.ba/imgres?imgurl=http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3774/nordid2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/search/2/?c%3D3%26mid%3D1763466%26month%3D10%26year%3D2012&h=836&w=600&sz=80&tbnid=VBgmi8kdgo44AM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=65&zoom=1&usg=__PCafbAPYHG_6Qi6NsOuNDuJ2Phk=&docid=NISCLAjdXyjgXM&sa=X&ei=JvsfUszFOYKOtQbu0YGoDw&ved=0CCoQ9QEwAA&dur=169#imgdii=_

[Diërker]

Fairly, It looks like your ancestry could've come out from the Northern areas of Europe.

[Stormer99]

White is defined by science and phenotype. If you look like you can fit into a European population you are most likely white. You know nothing about me or my ancestry so please stop before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

[Demhat]

Let's just cut to the chase: You want everyone to accept 'West Asian' as European so you can be European. Seriously Dehmat, give it a rest. And there's simply no point in explaining things to you again which you clearly are incapable of understanding.

No I am just pointing out the obvious. My main component is West Asian yet what is European doesn't depend on which components you have but it's the frequency of the components combined. All Europeans have at least 15% North Euro like DNA and less than 18% Southwest Asian and not more than 30% West Asian.

Assyrians, Armenians lack any North European and have more Southwest Asian and much more West Asian.

Iranians have some North European but not enough for European standards, They have South European average Southwest Asian but some 6% more South Asian. They also have too much West Asian genes.

Levantins have close to the average amoung of Mediterranean found among Europeans but they also have considerably more (almost twice) Southwest Asian component and also some 5% more Sub Saharan African component.

And the list goes on and Kurds are similar case.

So no, West Asian being part of the genetic pool does not make me an European at all.

But what you seem to not get is, If you consider Mediterranean part of European gene pool while West Asian not (which is out of sense) than you automatically claim that even Jordanians are more European than Georgians which is just ridiculous.

Let alone that the West Asian component is the closest you get to North European.

[Anglojew]

is ur lastname Jewish like does ur direct line go to jews or europe.


Yes, very Jewish.

5% of Ashkenazim are Q apparantly. My paternal line is Polish-Jewish.

[Insuperable]

White is defined by science and phenotype. If you look like you can fit into a European population you are most likely white. You know nothing about me or my ancestry so please stop before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

You think that Lebanese are white. Why am I even talking to you I wonder.

[YeshAtid]

Who's English in your family?

[YeshAtid]

You think that Lebanese are white. Why am I even talking to you I wonder.

:picard2:They are

[Fire Haired]

White is defined by science and phenotype. If you look like you can fit into a European population you are most likely white. You know nothing about me or my ancestry so please stop before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

Both of my parents are about 90-99% Germanic Italo Celtic( Germanic=30-50%, Insular Celtic( pre English britian and Ireland)=over 30-50% with a tiny bit of Swiss and French so Gaulic and then like 1% Slavic Polish. All of those people are very pale but brown skin is common in my dad's family as dark as Pakistani. My dad who is like that took geno 2,0 test in the who am i which is like there aust dna. He was totally European he had more about 10% more med than average people from his ancestry and 10% less north euro. the geno 2,0 test is kind of weak they dont get specific mid eastern groups so mid eastern have uselly over 60% med possible his med is from the mid east and that is were the dark skin is from. We have looked at all the records no trace of mid eastern people and my dads family since the 1700's direct paternal line is typical Germanic Italo Celtic R1b L11.

My dad has many times been confused as Mexican and there is a huge Pakistani Indian area by my house and they always think he is one of them. But he is European so phenotype is not everything there can be some very very very rare exceptions. European is a genetically a ethnicity and white is a good way to define it but i would not be surprised if there are some dark skinned Europeans who dont get it from non european inter marriage

[Fire Haired]

Yes, very Jewish.

5% of Ashkenazim are Q apparantly. My paternal line is Polish-Jewish.

accoring to eupedia Q does exist around isreal. I dont know that much about Jewish y dna but i think there might be alot of bottlenecks. So Q could have been raised after leaving isreal.
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-Q.gif

[1stLightHorse]

Both of my parents are about 90-99% Germanic Italo Celtic( Germanic=30-50%, Insular Celtic( pre English britian and Ireland)=over 30-50% with a tiny bit of Swiss and French so Gaulic and then like 1% Slavic Polish. All of those people are very pale but brown skin is common in my dad's family as dark as Pakistani. My dad who is like that took geno 2,0 test in the who am i which is like there aust dna. He was totally European he had more about 10% more med than average people from his ancestry and 10% less north euro. the geno 2,0 test is kind of weak they dont get specific mid eastern groups so mid eastern have uselly over 60% med possible his med is from the mid east and that is were the dark skin is from. We have looked at all the records no trace of mid eastern people and my dads family since the 1700's direct paternal line is typical Germanic Italo Celtic R1b L11.

My dad has many times been confused as Mexican and there is a huge Pakistani Indian area by my house and they always think he is one of them. But he is European so phenotype is not everything there can be some very very very rare exceptions. European is a genetically a ethnicity and white is a good way to define it but i would not be surprised if there are some dark skinned Europeans who dont get it from non european inter marriage

That's true, my paternal line has been black-haired for the past 3 generations. Our lineage is SW England.

The Brythonic people seem pretty swarthy to me. Even moreso than the Irish. Wales has as much dark hair as Spain.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3497/3697916622_feb9e16e18.jpghttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GwZhGj6e5tE/UOrgBO_CXLI/AAAAAAAAAEE/JH6HQ3RmWPs/s320/Alastair-Cook-001.jpg