View Full Version : Turkey may not want to be EU member: president
Got this off some obscure forum:
Turkey may not want to be EU member: president (http://www.today.az/news/politics/56297.html)
07 October 2009 [16:32] - Today.Az
Turkey may refuse EU membership in future, Turkish President Abdullah Gul said at a news conference held during his visit to France, the Turkish IHLAS news agency reported.
"Maybe, in future Turkey will not have willingness to be EU member. Perhaps, it will follow Norway's example," Gul said.
The EU-Turkey relations and cooperation began with signing of the treaty in Ankara in 1964. Despite EU-Turkey relations were cool after signing the treaty, the contract maintained its status.
Today's rapprochement between Turkey and the EU is appreciated as a historic chance.
During discussion on Norway's joining the EU, citizens of this country opposed joining this organization.
As a result, despite the fact that Norway complies with European standards, it refused from EU membership.
..or schwitzerland.. appears that any informed population voting of their own free will, will always oppose such supernational organisations where decisions are done far away to the point of dangerous indifference.
I guess its only a matter of time before they ban heating of houses, because it never really gets very cold... and nature needs saving. As proof they show temperatures in southern france..
Or issue a total ban on self defence vs rowing wolves.. oops.. guess that has been done already. Not for the faint of heart (http://www.voittajakennel.com/web/ALLEKIRJOITA.htm)
Lysander
10-10-2009, 12:05 PM
I hope they follow Norway's example, for their own and our sake. There are no winners in Turkey entering the EU.
Nationalitist
10-10-2009, 12:33 PM
I support Turkey's entrance in EU.
I support Turkey's entrance in EU.
On what grounds? What are the benefits?
Nationalitist
10-10-2009, 12:39 PM
It may help to dismantle EU.
It may help to dismantle EU.
But at the same time, do further, irreparable damage to European countries via mass migration. Turkey has a population of 75 million. Perhaps a price too high to pay?
Eldritch
10-10-2009, 12:46 PM
On what grounds? What are the benefits?
Oh, there are benefis all right. That is, to all Turkish criminals, losers and bottom-feeders who have already failed in Turkey. Turkey's EU membership would give them access to a leisurely life funded by the European taxpayer -- with of course some extra income generated by crime on the side.
I see the situation as identical with the relationship with the US and Mexico. Not all Mexicans are lazy, uneducated or stupid. But unfortunately almost all of those who swim the Rio Grande are. Exactly the same phenomenon will happen if Turkey is allowed into the EU: The most harmful, and the most useless Turks will spill into Europe, while the good ones will stay home. And once they're here, there won't be getting rid of them.
Lysander
10-10-2009, 12:48 PM
But at the same time, do further, irreparable damage to European countries via mass migration. Turkey has a population of 75 million. Perhaps a price too high to pay?
My point exactly. There are disturbingly many nationalists who support Turkey's entrance into the EU because this COULD destroy the union.
It probably wont though. The central power in Brussels doesn't care what we think now, why would they care just because Turkey entered?
And even if it did destroy the union, which I guarantee you it wont because Europeans have no balls any more, we would just sit at home yelling at our TV:s then go to work the next morning as if nothing happened. The world keeps spinning and the "union" prevails.
Back to my point, even if it did destroy the union the price would be too high to pay, check the video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8I9BUUolvk
Freomęg
10-10-2009, 01:06 PM
Is this a threat by Turkey? "Accept us while you have the chance or we might not give you another opportunity to be swamped with millions of freeloading Muslims".
Is this a threat by Turkey? "Accept us while you have the chance or we might not give you another opportunity to be swamped with millions of freeloading Muslims".
Sounds like it. We all know they really want to be part of the European club. :rolleyes:
Poltergeist
10-10-2009, 01:46 PM
My point exactly. There are disturbingly many nationalists who support Turkey's entrance into the EU because this COULD destroy the union.
Nationalists should be against EU in general and not be concerned with such minor details like the membership of Turkey.
Morphing of all European nations and states into one beaurocratic supra-national monster means the death of Europe anyway, with or without Turkey in the European Union. So it's a false dilemma.
Nationalists should be against EU in general and not be concerned with such minor details like the membership of Turkey.
Morphing of all European nations and states into one beaurocratic supra-national monster means the death of Europe anyway, with or without Turkey in the European Union. So it's a false dilemma.
"Minor detail" ... what a ridiculously uninformed statement to make.
Let me qualify: The EU is a political system which came and will probably go at some point. But massive people movements are usually of a permanent nature, and their effects long-lasting. If Turkey joins the EU, it will change the face and character of Europe forever.
Poltergeist
10-10-2009, 02:05 PM
"Minor detail" ... what a ridiculously uninformed statement to make.
I was a bit rhetorically exaggerating, in order to stress my dislike for EU in general, whether with Turkey as its member or not. Surely it doesn't qualify as minor detail, since Turkey is a big country.
Let me qualify: The EU is a political system which came and will probably go at some point. But massive people movements are usually of a permanent nature, and their effects long-lasting. If Turkey joins the EU, it will change the face and character of Europe forever.
Maybe yes and maybe no. we cannot be sure of whether there would be massive movements of Turks into other EU countries.
Maybe yes and maybe no. we cannot be sure of whether there would be massive movements of Turks into other EU countries.
If the Polish example is seen as a precedent, then there certainly will be. Just a lot more intense. Turkey is poor and unemployed. What gives?
Poltergeist
10-10-2009, 03:44 PM
If the Polish example is seen as a precedent, then there certainly will be. Just a lot more intense. Turkey is poor and unemployed. What gives?
Possibly. But many "old" members (with the exception of UK and Ireland) of the EU set up quotas for eastern Europeans and it is likely to happen even if Turkey joins EU.
I hear of some Poles going back to Poland lately because they couldn't find jobs in Britain, due to recession.
All of this, as far as I am concerned, points towards necessity of being against EU in general. Opposing just Turkey's entry into EU makes a negative psychological impact of implicitely "legitimizing" EU as truly European and as representing the genuine interests of Europe's peoples, which it isn't. It could create a fake common sense of purpose among the present-day EU members (with Turkey still excluded). Some right-wing circles of Europe may draw some benefit from that. And then, if Turkey enters, all opposition nonetheless, EU will be more firmly legitimized as an institution and implicitely the membership of Turkey in it. The right-wing lobby (various "Conservatives", pseudo-Christians, liberal conservatives, neocons etc) won't really mind Turkey being an EU member, once it happens as fait accompli. It would then turn out that their previous opposition to Turkey's entry into EU was more feigned than real, that it served only as a tool to accrue their own power. Then the Turkish elites would join with the already existing EU elites (of both right- and left-wing affiliation) in creation of a wonderful paradise on earth of a united Europe.
There is a great danger in focusing on opposing Turkey's membership of the EU only, I think. Likewise many obsessions with one topic only have some inherent dangers in themselves.
There is a great danger in focusing on opposing Turkey's membership of the EU only, I think. Likewise many obsessions with one topic only have some inherent dangers in themselves.
In fact, the Turkey membership issue is an eye-opener for many, who would normally be supportive of the EU. So I think there are benefits from highlighting it. It is one of the most tangible and visible negative effects of an expanding EU. Today Turkey, tomorrow Algeria and Morocco.
RoyBatty
10-10-2009, 04:12 PM
Whether Turkey joins the EU or not won't make any difference. The EU is still going to flood itself with African, Middle Eastern and Asian immigrants. If anything Turkey is possibly preferable to many of those aforementioned.
Either way, Europe is doomed.
Whether Turkey joins the EU or not won't make any difference. The EU is still going to flood itself with African, Middle Eastern and Asian immigrants. If anything Turkey is possibly preferable to many of those aforementioned.
That's a good point actually.
Svarog
10-10-2009, 04:17 PM
Better Turkey than Serbia!! :P
Poltergeist
10-10-2009, 04:17 PM
In fact, the Turkey membership issue is an eye-opener for many, who would normally be supportive of the EU. So I think there are benefits from highlighting it. It is one of the most tangible and visible negative effects of an expanding EU. Today Turkey, tomorrow Algeria and Morocco.
That's right, I noticed that phenomenon for quite some time, but there is also another tendency that arose from the opposition to Turkey's membership in the EU, the one advocated by a motley crowd of right-wingers, which goes in direction of strengthening of some kind of pan-Europeannes/pan-Zeropeannes (based on EU "values"), but only without Turkey in the EU. And that was what I was hinting at.
If the issue of Turkey's membership served as an eye-opener to some who consequently became contrary to EU, then it's good.
Nationalitist
10-10-2009, 05:16 PM
That's right, I noticed that phenomenon for quite some time, but there is also another tendency that arose from the opposition to Turkey's membership in the EU, the one advocated by a motley crowd of right-wingers, which goes in direction of strengthening of some kind of pan-Europeannes/pan-Zeropeannes (based on EU "values"), but only without Turkey in the EU. And that was what I was hinting at.
Zeropean campaign:
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/296/turkeynotes8et.jpg
It's actualy not a bad idea, just that we should cross our own countries out.
Svarog
10-10-2009, 05:22 PM
I can't wait for the Egypt and Israel to join too :P
Poltergeist
10-10-2009, 05:25 PM
It seems as if it were scheduled for the whole world to join European Union, sooner or later.:D:p
Lysander
10-11-2009, 12:09 AM
Nationalists should be against EU in general and not be concerned with such minor details like the membership of Turkey.
Morphing of all European nations and states into one beaurocratic supra-national monster means the death of Europe anyway, with or without Turkey in the European Union. So it's a false dilemma.
No it's not, read the post again.
I clearly stated that they want Turkey to join in order to destroy the EU because it's a crappy organisation BUT, and there's a big BUT and that is if the end justifies the means.
I think it doesn't, the risks are too high and the chance of the EU falling apart from a Turkish membership are zip whereas the risk for a huge immigration from Turkey to Europe is certain.
Poltergeist
10-11-2009, 05:17 AM
No it's not, read the post again.
I clearly stated that they want Turkey to join in order to destroy the EU because it's a crappy organisation BUT, and there's a big BUT and that is if the end justifies the means.
I think it doesn't, the risks are too high and the chance of the EU falling apart from a Turkish membership are zip whereas the risk for a huge immigration from Turkey to Europe is certain.
I understood very well what you wanted to say, I was just expanding on the topic more broadly, not commenting your post only.
raZvan
10-11-2009, 05:22 AM
Good if they don't want to join! Better for everyone!
Liffrea
10-11-2009, 04:53 PM
I wouldn’t read much into it, looks like a tantrum more than a statement, Turkey has deliberately isolated itself from the Arab states and tied itself to NATO, I think they would consider their future more linked to Europe than the Arabs or Russia. Angling for the best deal more than likely….
As for extra-European members, David Miliband (British Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs) (he spends a lot of his time in Leicester, Wolverhampton and Bradford) has already suggested that Algeria, Morocco and, I believe, Tunisia could not be overlooked for EU membership.
Which goes to show just how in depth this vision of the “new Rome” is.
raZvan
10-11-2009, 11:41 PM
Morocco? Tunisia? I thought it was supposed to be the European Union, not the Neo Roman Empire Union.
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