More than 1 million Catalans form human chain to promote their bid to break away from Spain

[Graham]

More than 1 million Catalans form human chain to promote their bid to break away from Spain (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/catalans-in-favor-of-breaking-away-from-spain-form-huge-human-chain-to-advertise-their-cause/2013/09/11/0ce45f06-1afa-11e3-80ac-96205cacb45a_story.html)
By Associated Press, Published: September 11
http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/130911-catalan-spain-250p.photoblog600.jpg
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BARCELONA, Spain — More than 1 million people showed their support for Catalan independence Wednesday by joining hands to form a 400-kilometer (250-mile) human chain across the northeastern region of Spain.

The demonstration on the region’s annual public holiday aimed to illustrate the strength of local backing for political efforts to break away from Spain. The Catalan regional government estimated 1.6 million people in the region of 7.5 million residents took part in the human chain, many of them with red, yellow and blue pro-independence flags draped around their shoulders.

“Today is a historic day. The Catalan people have reaffirmed their determination to be a free state,” said Carme Forcadell, president of the Catalan National Assembly, which organized the human chain.

The protest in Catalonia was peaceful, but a small group of Spanish fascists in Madrid stormed their way into the office of the Catalan government’s delegation building in the capital.

Television images showed about 10 men with Spanish fascist flags shouting, pushing people, knocking over furniture and hitting a journalist’s TV camera. They yelled “Catalonia is Spain!” and quickly left, but reportedly opened a tear gas container, forcing the 100 or so people gathered there to evacuate.

During Francisco Franco’s fascist dictatorship from 1939-1975, the Catalan language was banned in schools, publishing and from public use.

Despite sharing many cultural traits with the rest of Spain, many Catalans claim a deep cultural difference based on their language, which is spoken side-by-side with Spanish in the wealthy region.

Catalonia’s regional leader Artur Mas has promised to hold a referendum on independence in 2014, but the Madrid-based government has said that such a vote would be unconstitutional.

Polls indicate that the majority of Catalans agree on holding a referendum, though surveys indicate support among residents for independence is around 50 percent. It falls to less than that when those questioned are asked whether they would want a separate Catalan state outside the European Union.

The Spanish government’s refusal to grant Catalonia similar fiscal powers held by the Basque Country - the other region with a strong separatist movement - combined with the country’s double-dip recession have swelled the pro-independence ranks in recent years. Many Catalans feel secession would allow them to pull free of Spain’s economic troubles.

“It’s becoming clearer that we have nowhere to go with Spain. We want to be free,” said Montse Espina, a 44-year-old sales representative holding a pro-independence flag in Barcelona.

Pro-independence supporters raised their arms and chanted “Independence!” during the demonstration. There was a festive mood across the countryside, with church bells ringing out in some towns and villages.

In Barcelona, the human chain passed through the city’s main square, around the famous Sagrada Familia cathedral and through the Camp Nou Stadium where the Barcelona soccer team plays.

“The message has been sent,” Mas said. “If we are not given a way to channel this widespread patriotic movement, then I think the Spanish state has a serious problem with Catalonia.”

Spain’s deputy prime minister, Soraya Saenz de Santamaria, said Mas was promoting political divisions.

“The worst thing a politician can do is force people to separate” into two groups, she said.

[Pleurat]

This is unbelievable.

[Graham]

This is unbelievable.

Watch this, the Catalan anthem


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo0E5Er3fxY

[Proto-Shaman]

our Türanic brothers :heh:

[Pleurat]

Watch this, the Catalan anthem


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo0E5Er3fxY

So, if they really want independence, what is going to happen, maybe a war or what?

[Vasconcelos]

There's always so many people involved on these demonstrations, Christ on a bike...


So, if they really want independence, what is going to happen, maybe a war or what?

I bet that a war will not happen under any circumstance.

[Graham]

So, if they really want independence, what is going to happen, maybe a war or what?

No, the Catalans are too peaceful. The demonstrators are your normal decent families.

[RussiaPrussia]

So catalans want independence? And after that they ban spanish and force spanish people to assimilate like baltics have done?

[Hayalet]

What percentage of Catalonia is ethnically Catalan?

[Empecinado]

War? Spain is not the Balkans and Catalonia is not Kosovo. Catalan nationalism is simply a tool of their regional elites to distract them for their real problems and the most radical "Catalan" nationalist politician is from Andalusia whereas the most radical Spanish nationalist there is a full blooded Catalan. It's just a boring circus.

[Vasconcelos]

It's hard to tell, not like Catalans are that different from it's neighbours.

[Damião de Góis]

Do they have some sort of army? How would a war be even possible?

[Lábaru]

So, if they really want independence, what is going to happen, maybe a war or what?

Catalans have no army. Considering that 25% of Catalans are Moors and black and another 5% are gypsies and the rest a majority of left-wing people I would consider a blessing a Spain free of Cataluña, but I'm sure it will not be the case and that the circus will continue, because the Catalan economy is built to work with Spain, extorting the Spanish market, without Spain, Cataluña will lose most of its welfare.

So we have to continue suffering with Catalonia, without a war, a shame :(

[Pleurat]

Catalans have no army. Considering that 25% of Catalans are Moors and black and another 5% are gypsies and the rest a majority of left-wing people I would consider a blessing a Spain free of Cataluña, but I'm sure it will not be the case and that the circus will continue, because the Catalan economy is built to work with Spain, extorting the Spanish market, without Spain, Cataluña will lose most of its welfare.

So we have to continue suffering with Catalonia, without a war, a shame :(


25% of Catalans are moors???

[Empecinado]

25% of Catalans are moors???

Yes, mostly from Morocco and Pakistan, the "New Catalans" according Nationalists xD

[Lábaru]

25% of Catalans are moors???

Moors, black Africans, pakis ect... most of them nationalised, to be honest it is impossible to know the exact number, but we know one thing, there are 2 mosques in Cantabria(y me cago en ambas), Catalonia has 145 mosques, the whole Spain 645.

[Pleurat]

To be sincere I would never imagine Spain with so much mosques.... it seems that greece is the only country in europe with no mosques.

[American_Hispanist]

Catalans have no army. Considering that 25% of Catalans are Moors and black and another 5% are gypsies and the rest a majority of left-wing people I would consider a blessing a Spain free of Cataluña, but I'm sure it will not be the case and that the circus will continue, because the Catalan economy is built to work with Spain, extorting the Spanish market, without Spain, Cataluña will lose most of its welfare.

So we have to continue suffering with Catalonia, without a war, a shame :(

it's the sad reality. spain has the same problem that canada has relating to Quebec. the Quebecois do the same type of shit that Catalans do with Spain, always threatening to leave but are really bluffs to get more and more. It would be a blessing of Canada if Quebec left the Confederation of Canada and the same of Catalonia leaving the Kingdom of Spain but Catalans are only bluffing (much like what Comte Arnau likes to do). the last time Catalonia "left" Spain, during the 1600s, they became France's bitch and the Catalans fled back to Spanish rule within a year, since they yearned to be back under Spanish rule. xD It's a love-hate cycle that really, Catalans want to be part of Spain, but like that crazy bitch who nags all the time, really wants attention and love. :laugh:

[Lábaru]

To be sincere I would never imagine Spain with so much mosques.... it seems that greece is the only country in europe with no mosques.

The blue number are the mosques. Mezquita=Mosque.
http://www.xlugh.com/islamnews/fotos/mapa.jpg

[Graham]

25% of Catalans are moors???
Catalonia Population -- 7.571 million

AFRICAN MIGRANTS -- 275,746 3.64%
Morocco 207,194
Senegal 15,982
Gambia 15,141
Algeria 7,709
Mali 6,078
Nigeria 5,945
Guinea 4,110
Ghana 4,028
Mauritania 2,045
Equatorial Guinea 1,678

Source: http://www.idescat.cat/cat/idescat/publicacions/cataleg/pdfdocs/immigracio08en.pdf

[Empecinado]

Catalonia Population -- 7.571 million

AFRICAN MIGRANTS -- 275,746 3.64%
Morocco 207,194
Senegal 15,982
Gambia 15,141
Algeria 7,709
Mali 6,078
Nigeria 5,945
Guinea 4,110
Ghana 4,028
Mauritania 2,045
Equatorial Guinea 1,678

Source: http://www.idescat.cat/cat/idescat/publicacions/cataleg/pdfdocs/immigracio08en.pdf

But these statistics doesn't recount the ones with Spanish citizenship.

[Lábaru]

Catalonia Population -- 7.571 million

AFRICAN MIGRANTS -- 275,746
Morocco 207,194
Senegal 15,982
Gambia 15,141
Algeria 7,709
Mali 6,078
Nigeria 5,945
Guinea 4,110
Ghana 4,028
Mauritania 2,045
Equatorial Guinea 1,678

Source: http://www.idescat.cat/cat/idescat/publicacions/cataleg/pdfdocs/immigracio08en.pdf

as in the rest of Spain, nationalized foreigners(and their children born there) are not counted in these statistics, the same with illegal immigrants, are not counted , and believe me, they are many and Catalonia(or Spain) has no intention to expel them.

[HispaniaSagrada]

dfggddg

[Not a Cop]

as in the rest of Spain, nationalized foreigners(and their children born there) are not counted in these statistics, the same with illegal immigrants, are not counted , and believe me, they are many and Catalonia(or Spain) has no intention to expel them.

But why do'nt you import South Americans?

[Graham]

Why is Spain giving them Citizenship, Or is this an already a devolved matter for Catalans? Because surely it couldn't be any worse, than what's happening, under Spanish border control.

I see the UK making the same arguments, with migration & I ask them the same. All these people were let in by your lot.

[American_Hispanist]

But why do'nt you import South Americans?

they already do. :lol:

they call them sudakas. :laugh:

only thing they don't do is import Mexicans because USA has dips on Mexicans. Only Mexicans who go to Spain are middle class and rich Mexicans to study and party there for a while, then either go to central europe to work, back to Mexico, or go to USA to be with family :lol:

[Lábaru]

Why is Spain giving them Citizenship, Or is this an already a devolved matter for Catalans? Because surely it couldn't be any worse, than what's happening, under Spanish border control.

I see the UK making the same arguments, with migration & I ask them the same. All these people were let in by your lot.

Is the work of the Spanish left-wing thinkers, Catalonia is a stronghold of the left.

[Not a Cop]

they already do. :lol:

they call them sudakas. :laugh:

I have'nt seen any of them into statistics, but they seem to be far better immigrants in my opinion, then Africans

[HispaniaSagrada]

dfdfd

[American_Hispanist]

I have'nt seen any of them into statistics, but they seem to be far better immigrants in my opinion, then Africans

well, not all of them. just ask CV what he thinks of Ecuadorians and Peruvians. xD

[Graham]

Btw I think Count Arnau is gone. lol

[Empecinado]

Who? This guy?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yM86c9eozk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb-cc3xE2WM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-eYmlaebGw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onMNEfw367k

It's fun to see him get pissed off.

No, is this other guy, López-Tena. Really ridiculous xD


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxciMNd3Fi8

[American_Hispanist]

Btw I think Count Arnau is gone. lol

good. that Moroccan lover was one of the biggest morons I have ever met (calling me a sudaka when I am not even a fucking south american xD )

[Vasconcelos]

Btw I think Count Arnau is gone. lol

Really? :(

[Graham]

Really? :(

Or taking a big break. Hasn't posted for over a month.

[SilverKnight]

Spain's only hope is found in the new world. Where they have left their marks and blood, although diluted still there.

[American_Hispanist]

Spain's only hope is found in the new world. Where they have left their marks and blood, although diluted still there.

lol. :lol: you're are not the hope for anybody dude. :laugh: in fact, you cause more problems.

[Tropico]

Why haven't they been given independence? They have the right as a people. Is Spain being stubborn because they don't want to be embarrassed that their own country would be broken apart?

[American_Hispanist]

^hey avocadoricky, are you still putting avocado on your face on the advice of your sisters? :lol:

[Wadaad]

I support Catalan independence...

[Formozgan]

I support Catalan independence...

Why?

[Wadaad]

Why?

If the majority feel like they have no affinity with Madrid, then they should be allowed to vote on secession.

[SilverKnight]

lol. :lol: you're are not the hope for anybody dude. :laugh: in fact, you cause more problems.

:laugh: your existence on this Earth is of no use. So how does that make you feel :laugh: mexishit ? hows does it make you feel being so inferior to me buddy :lol: ?

[American_Hispanist]

:laugh: your existence on this Earth is of no use. So how does that make you feel :laugh: mexishit ? hows does it make you feel being so inferior to me buddy :lol: ?

Inferiority is defined as feeling as having a downward grade to other people. As that classifying that to me is impossible as I don't feel I am of lower grade to anybody. However, to you, you think everything that relates to Europe and Europeans is perfect while for your things, you feel they are inferior. Therefore, it's not I who is the inferior one, it's you, as you feel everything that relates to you (blackness, sudanese stuff, etc) is inferior to European things.

[SilverKnight]

Inferiority is defined as feeling as having a downward grade to other people. As that classifying that to me is impossible as I don't feel I am of lower grade to anybody. However, to you, you think everything that relates to Europe and Europeans is perfect while for your things, you feel they are inferior. Therefore, it's not I who is the inferior one, it's you, as you feel everything that relates to you (blackness, sudanese stuff, etc) is inferior to European things.


* WHISPERS* Tell me buddy, how does it feel being so inferior ??? * WHISPERS* I teach you a lesson if you where right in front of me, a lesson to respect your superiors. so tell me be honest how does it feel to be so worthless? (I'm very curious to know) * WHISPERS*

[Formozgan]

* WHISPERS* Tell me buddy, how does it feel being so inferior ??? * WHISPERS* I teach you a lesson if you where right in front of me, a lesson to respect your superiors. so tell me be honest how does it feel to be so worthless? (I'm very curious to know) * WHISPERS*

What the hell is this verbal diarrhea supposed to mean? Sounds like you would speak to your girlfriend (that is, if you have any) when she threatens to leave you.

[American_Hispanist]

* WHISPERS* Tell me buddy, how does it feel being so inferior ??? * WHISPERS* I teach you a lesson if you where right in front of me, a lesson to respect your superiors. so tell me be honest how does it feel to be so worthless? (I'm very curious to know) * WHISPERS*

As I have said before negro, you are the inferior one. you suck up to European things and don't embrace your true colors, which is of being a negro. Face it bro, you are a negro and will always be a negro for life.

Embrace it bro:

http://undiscvrddimen101.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/black-is-beautiful.gif :lol:

[SilverKnight]

As I have said before negro, you are the inferior one. you suck up to European things and don't embrace your true colors, which is of being a negro. Face it bro, you are a negro and will always be a negro for life.

Embrace it bro:





You didn't answer my question. I keep waiting mexitard :)


Do me a favor as well as planet Earth. Go to your mexican anchor baby kitchen and inhale a whole bottle of insecticide, that will make Earth a bit of a better place :D

[SilverKnight]

What the hell is this verbal diarrhea supposed to mean? Sounds like you would speak to your girlfriend (that is, if you have any) when she threatens to leave you.


FAGZorzan she isn't my gf, my wife. Unlike you I take relationships serious and I'm not around fucking every whore I see :) ,

[American_Hispanist]

You didn't answer my question. I keep waiting mexitard :)


Do me a favor as well as planet Earth. Go to your mexican anchor baby kitchen and inhale a whole bottle of insecticide, that will make Earth a bit of a better place :D

the question you ask doesn't apply to me, as that would mean being something I am not. However, you, are inferior and will only end up with this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-M8h_SmY5zJU/UAjzh4ErGpI/AAAAAAAAAko/VK1X4pnCs7s/s1600/Welcome_To_The_Nut_House.jpg

[RussiaPrussia]

As I have said before negro, you are the inferior one. you suck up to European things and don't embrace your true colors, which is of being a negro. Face it bro, you are a negro and will always be a negro for life.

Embrace it bro:

http://undiscvrddimen101.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/black-is-beautiful.gif :lol:

and whats wrong with that?

[American_Hispanist]

and whats wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with that. it's a problem to silverknight because he wants to be a european (white) man. :lol:

[SilverKnight]

and whats wrong with that?


He's just a sad person who hates blacks and mulattoes like me. I already warned him to leave me alone, as well as top calling my sister and family names and how they should get raped. Very sad individual indeed.

[Wadaad]

If you and American Hispanist shave your head, you could pass for siblings...Your beefs is a result of the New World's fucking up the identity of tri-racials, mulattoes and mestizoes

[B01AB20]

an article, a reflection I share more or less, in a catalan newspaper by a catalan journalist specialized in politics.

extract. automatic translator. (or almost)

--------------------
The independence does not represent all of Catalonia, of course, as demonstrated in the elections last November, but right now it's the largest minority in the country. The minority stronger and more dynamic.

There's another minority in front (much more minor) which is defined as its negation: the anti-independence minority. And there is a third minority, very difficult to quantify because it fluctuates constantly, observing the current situation from a certain discomfort. It shares some of the reasons of independence, shares many of the emotions of yesterday, but refuses to rule in favor of the break: for sentimental reasons, by family, by legitimate professional and business interests, for consistency with the attitude so far , or fear of a tear in Catalan society having excessive costs.

These Catalanist that today are not fascinated by the break will be crucial in the coming years. Make no mistake, they are the ones who tip the balance.
-----------------

the article in spanish.

http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20130912/54381325980/diada-paisaje-despues-de-la-cadena-enric-juliana.html

[Gorštak]

What about Basques?
And do Catalans and Basques love more each others than any of them love Spainards?

lol they had bloody civil war in past, this song is cool and I like it but I don't have idea about what is song actually, but it's something about their war

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FULcvalI_Wo


Should I say?
Long live Generalissimus Francisko Franko!

or

Catalonia is not Spain!


Lmao, al best Spain sportsman are Catalans(Gasol brothers, Barcelona players et).

[Kiyant]

Looks like SilverKnight also succesfully deflowered this Thread good job.

[Empecinado]

Nationalist using cows to complete the "human" chain in some zones due the lack of people xD

http://www.alertadigital.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/vacas1.jpg

[Windischer]

it would be nice to see independent catalunya.



Television images showed about 10 men with Spanish fascist flags shouting, pushing people, knocking over furniture and hitting a journalist’s TV camera. They yelled “Catalonia is Spain!” and quickly left, but reportedly opened a tear gas container, forcing the 100 or so people gathered there to evacuate.

typical gypsies.

[HispaniaSagrada]

dgdgdf

[HispaniaSagrada]

It's not too often I see a thread like this one where it just so happens that most of it appears like this to me:




Questo messaggio è nascosto perchè IDIOT # 1 è nella tua lista ignorati.

Questo messaggio è nascosto perchè IDIOT # 2 è nella tua lista ignorati.

Questo messaggio è nascosto perchè IDIOT # 3 è nella tua lista ignorati.

Questo messaggio è nascosto perchè IDIOT # 4 è nella tua lista ignorati.

Questo messaggio è nascosto perchè IDIOT # 5 è nella tua lista ignorati.

Questo messaggio è nascosto perchè IDIOT # 6 è nella tua lista ignorati.

Questo messaggio è nascosto perchè IDIOT # 7 è nella tua lista ignorati.

Questo messaggio è nascosto perchè IDIOT # 8 è nella tua lista ignorati.

Questo messaggio è nascosto perchè IDIOT # 9 è nella tua lista ignorati.

Questo messaggio è nascosto perchè IDIOT # 10 è nella tua lista ignorati.



I like the ignore feature. Thanks Loki :thumb001:

[Graham]

Is everybody who is saying Catalonia should be independent saying it just to sow discord or do you actually have educated reasons for saying so? I confess I don't know much about it. It seems part of it comes from simply a nationalist sentiment while for others there are political and economic reasons.

Simply as a social democrat, people should have the right to vote, if they want to vote. Are big enough to stay stable, or have at least some history.

[HispaniaSagrada]

dfd

[B01AB20]

Simply as a social democrat, people should have the right to vote, if they want to vote. Are big enough to stay stable, or have at least some history.

imagine catalonia gets independence, but things go wrong and some people demands another referendum to join spain again :rolleyes:, do you think nationalists in charge of an independent catalonia, their most wet and desired dream, would access this democratic demand?

I have my doubts about that, well in fact I have no doubt about what they would do. :(

[Philo]

Long live Catalan nation.:thumb001:

[B01AB20]

Long live Catalan nation.:thumb001:

long live long live :D , catalan nationalist are massively pro-palestians as you must know, brother nations opressed by infamous states and all that crap.

[Lábaru]

Long live Catalan and Palestine nation, Palestine lliure.

[SilverKnight]

If you and American Hispanist shave your head, you could pass for siblings...Your beefs is a result of the New World's fucking up the identity of tri-racials, mulattoes and mestizoes


He doesn't represent honorable Iberian blood. His genes have been corrupted, this is why he's so stupid/ useless.

[Empecinado]

Catalonia as independent state would not have future...half of population is against independence and it's economy depend from the exports to Spain, also there would be a capital flight, as happened with Cuba and Puerto Rico, to the nearby Spanish regions, especially Aragon and Valencia. They would be forced to choose between become a colony of any power or impoverishment.

And another (the most) serious issue: the ethnical replacement, Catalan birthrate is quite low whereas immigrant birthrate is very high. In some towns foreigners already are 50% of population. Islam is the most growing religion. And Nationalists are naive pro-multiculti leftists.

[Philo]

long live long live :D , catalan nationalist are massively pro-palestians as you must know, brother nations opressed by infamous states and all that crap.

Yes I know, but I try to seperate the difference conflicts from each other. Plus they did invite Gilad Shalit and they did come to Israel for a training in Bloomfield stadium this summer. Imo they are commited to peace.
Of course, hardcore Catalan nationalists are not the same as most of Barcelona fans, I'm aware of that :cool:


If you and American Hispanist shave your head, you could pass for siblings...Your beefs is a result of the New World's fucking up the identity of tri-racials, mulattoes and mestizoes

:D

[Graham]

It would be nice to here the positive points for Catalans to say. Rather than saying what the Catalans are bad for. What positives do they bring to Spain, that makes you want to keep such a Union?

Barcelona is one of Europe's greatest cities, can't see it collapsing, or people to move from.

[Lábaru]

Barcelona is one of Europe's greatest cities, can't see it collapsing.

I've lived in more than five Spanish cities, a huge percentage of products to buy are made in Catalonia, I'm talking about products we use every day, including food. Trust me, without Spain they can collapse, and certainly that would be good for the rest of Spain, we need to buy our own products.

[Vasconcelos]

I have very mixed feelings about this topic, honestly.

On one side I defend that peoples should be free to choose their own path, but on the other hand is there such a big difference between Catalans and other Spaniards to actually force a separation? How many Catalans are actually from other regions, after such a long time? Is their culture so unique, that actually warrants them to have a separate state? Language alone isn't enough to justify it. Valencians seem pretty happy to be part of Spain, and they are culturally the closest to Catalans.

If there were no economic issues in Catalonia (or the rest of Spain) how many people would actually be pro-independence? Is the separation even good for the Catalan economy? Spain is part of the Eurozone, Catalonia breaking away would also probably make them leave the EU and Euro, how would that affect it's inflation, interest rates and exports (80% of Catalan's "exports" are to the rest of Spain - these would now suffer from penalties) especially considered how endebted Catalonia is already.


There are so many cons that I fear that actually becoming independent will get them hoisted by their own petard.
Besides, as someone with Iberist tendencies, the thought of Spain breaking up saddens me.

[Graham]

Catalan nationalists, seem quite focused on their language, have noticed. It's a strong motivation for some of the stronger separatists.

[B01AB20]

imagine catalonia gets independence, but things go wrong and some people demands another referendum to join spain again :rolleyes:, do you think nationalists in charge of an independent catalonia, their most wet and desired dream, would access this democratic demand?

I have my doubts about that, well in fact I have no doubt about what they would do. :(

I wrote that because much of the reasons, maybe ALL of the reasons, catalan nationalits claim in favor of independence are economical and current; the deep roots of catalan nation, language, culture, hisroty... are quite secondary in the debate.

Nationalist say unemployment will go down X% in an independent catalonia, the welfare state will be guaranteed and so on... the strict nationalistic reasons have not much involvement in this.

It's a pity we can't read the opinion of a nationalist like arnau, I think there are some catalans here but they are not nationalist, like me, sorry. :)

[B01AB20]

If there were no economic issues in Catalonia (or the rest of Spain) how many people would actually be pro-independence?



good cuestion, I'd like to know too.

[Graham]

good cuestion, I'd like to know too.

It would be less, independence is radical politics, & like everything radical. The poorest are more likely to vote it. Whilst those that are already settled, aren't going to take a risk.

Scotland's separatists are struggling for this reason, to pick up votes. We have a decent economy.

[Empecinado]

Catalan nationalism was nonexistant until half 19th century, and had almost no influence on the society until 70s. It's a fake nationalism, just based on language (a language which is mutually intelligible with Castilian and is spoken outside Catalonia too), hate and a huge mythology. Even Rafael Casanova, their idol honoured yesterday, actually was pro-Spain and he would shot them for their treason.

[HispaniaSagrada]

dfgdfg

[Philo]

Catalan nationalism was nonexistant until half 19th century, and had almost no influence on the society until 70s. It's a fake nationalism, just based on language (a language which is mutually intelligible with Castilian and is spoken outside Catalonia too), hate and a huge mythology. Even Rafael Casanova, their idol honoured yesterday, actually was pro-Spain and he would shot them for their treason.

100x less so than Pali nationalism though.

[B01AB20]

deep in my heart :laugh2: I think radical nationalists want independence no matter how, moderate nationalists want independence too, but they're realistic and pragmatic and I think their ultimate objective is the fiscal pact with the central state they demanded time ago, they want the fiscal control of catalonia, like the basques and navarrese have.

if you want a tree ask for a forest, or something like that, in spain is quite typical.

[Empecinado]

If I'm not mistaken even Count Arnau said he used to be a Iberista at first. What was his reason for changing his mind, again?

Yea, I can even understand much of it myself, at least written.

I don't know, haven't talk so much with him.

[HispaniaSagrada]

dgdfg

[B01AB20]

That wasn't the quote I remember but I will keep looking a little bit. In the one I remember he stated, iirc, he used to be Iberista and then changed his mind for Catalan independence and I think he explained why sufficiently well but it was a while ago. Could be I don't remember correctly.

political and economic reasons...

I have friends who are of fully spanish (not catalan) ancestry or even born outside catalonia... but they are in favor of independence.

the anti-catalan feelings of many spaniards, the anti-catalan politics of practically all spanish goverrments, quite true in my opinion, are their main reasons.
they are not catalan nationalists, they are something different, preogressives I guess, nation or race have no meaning or value for them or so it seems.

[Vasconcelos]

This is what vexes me, trying to split off primarily for economic reasons makes little sense and paves the way for national fragmentation and a weakening of all - as Genghis Khan supposedly said "one arrow alone can be easily broken but many arrows are indestructible".

[B01AB20]

not even the deep blue sea stops catalan chain.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/946323_570501799679315_850899938_n.jpg

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3581141860/14eae336edddfb076578ea49ae0d8a1b.jpeg

[StonyArabia]

If they feel they are not Spanish and see themselves differently based on culture and tradition. Then they should get their independence.

[B01AB20]

If they feel they are not Spanish and see themselves differently based on culture and tradition. Then they should get their independence.

yeah, we're the world we're the children.

life is as simple as that for some people.

[HispaniaSagrada]

dfgdg

[B01AB20]

:picard1: the degeneracy never ends. If I were Spanish I'd be tempted to just say 'let them go'

in fact it's part of the catalan nationalist strategy, and with good results, catalans are the most disliked people by spaniards, including the basques I think ;)

[Vasconcelos]

including the basques I think ;)

:laugh:

[HispaniaSagrada]

sdfsfssf

[B01AB20]

Really, the Basques don't like the Catalans? Even the independentist ones? I thought they would all be jumping on eachother's bandwagons :noidea: That's all I see on Youtube one of them always throws everybody together saying "Free Galicia, Free Catalonia, Free the Basques" etc.

I do remember reading something on this site where I think a Basque with a superiority complex was saying the Iberians (ancient ones, I guess) were a bunch of retards or something, unless I understood it wrong.

It's funny cause this Catalan chick seems to think it's the other way around.


one thing is politics and another the traditional perception that different spanish regions have one of each other, and well, I'd dare to say that catalans are universally disliked in spain, or at least seen with very little friendliness, and this include the basques... but perikolez could say if that's like I say or not.

and I don't enjoy with this fact man, I was born and I live here in catalonia and I'd like things were different, but life is like that.

[Aunt Hilda]

reminds me of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Way

[HispaniaSagrada]

sfsfs

[B01AB20]

reminds me of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Way

at least it's better than the 'balkan way' I guess.

[B01AB20]

I read a comment recently on Youtube, I have no way of knowing if it's true or not, but some woman foreigner who says she's lived in Spain for 10 years said that while Barcelona is nicer than Madrid and all that the Catalans are backwards compared to the "Spaniards" I don't remember reading an explanation why, though, that's just what she said.

don't believe what you hear or read on the internet, too much prejudice and hate flowing through in every possible direction.

[HispaniaSagrada]

dfgddggd