Pigmentation Standards :

[Hussar]

One of the most unsolved problems of anthropologic science since the begin is the existence of an heterogeneous set of different standards (author by author).

This kind of problems is often present in the discussions on the anthropologic boards.
What is "dark" for scandinavians isn't dark for iberians for example.



On this thread i'd like we could clarify better this subject, with the help of the partecipants.
Everyone of us should post example of what he/she consider DARK or LIGHT or INTERMEDIATE (all the colour shades from Blond to Black/brunet). Starting with HAIR.


(the luck to post on the international boards : many peoples of different nationalities and ethnicities who can contribute expressing their own standards)


What means "brunet" for you ? (just to start)

[Tabiti]

"Classical" brunet for me is someone with brown (light brown, medium brown, chestnut, dark brown) hair and brown eyes.

[Comte Arnau]

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/01af-ton-clar.png?t=1255464921
http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/01af-ton-fosc.png?t=1255465001

[Mesrine]

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/01af-ton-fosc.png?t=1255465001

Perfect sample, especially the Mediterranean. :love:

[Hussar]

This is what i consider BRUNET :


http://i36.tinypic.com/2d1pqpg.jpg

[Damião de Góis]

[
http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/01af-ton-fosc.png?t=1255465001

Mediterranean "Olive" is not that dark. Isn't Teresa Salgueiro a better example?

Or Isabel Figueira

http://cache02.stormap.sapo.pt/fotostore02/fotos//91/58/5a/1770818_VmDKO.jpeg

[Mesrine]

Mediterranean "Olive" is not that dark. Isn't Teresa Salgueiro a better example?

Or Isabel Figueira

http://cache02.stormap.sapo.pt/fotostore02/fotos//91/58/5a/1770818_VmDKO.jpeg

No, Salgueiro is deceptively dark on some pics, and Figueira is just tanned. Ibex's example of a genuine Olive complexion seems right to me.

http://www.syntorama.com/imagenes/noticias/1182181474898551.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/8vy8v5.jpg

[Hussar]

At this point.........is the intermediate the most difficult category to define.

[Damião de Góis]

I am thinking southern euro with the term "mediterranean olive" and that complexion is unusual here and everywhere else in southern europe. I think it doesn't get darker than say Nuno Gomes and Alessandro Nesta without foreign admix.

[Comte Arnau]

Mediterranean "Olive" is not that dark. Isn't Teresa Salgueiro a better example?
I am thinking southern euro with the term "mediterranean olive" and that complexion is unusual here and everywhere else in southern europe.

It's a matter of names, in fact. Southern Europeans are usually not Mediterranean/Olive when untanned, but many can approach that shade when tanned. In fact, variability in Southern European skin is high, going from light to olive.

That pictorial sample was made by me based on a simple old well-known scheme by Fitzgerald. So it's just to have a quick general idea.

Following the Jablonski & Chaplin study on human skin coloration, we could be a bit more accurate and classify it like this:

(Numbers are of the values given on skin reflectance. Division and labelling is mine. Examples are from the study)

+ 70.0 VERY LIGHT

+ 66.6 +LIGHT Netherlands, Germany (Mainz), UK (Cumberland)
+ 63.3 LIGHT Northern UK, Ireland, Spain (Basques, Leon), Wales
+ 60.0 -LIGHT Belgium, UK (London), Iraq/Syria (Kurds)

+ 56.6 +LIGHT INTERMEDIATE Southern China, Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, Algeria
+ 53.3 LIGHT INTERMEDIATE Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iran, S Greenland, Japan, Morocco, Tibet, Libya, Punjab, Philippines, Cambodia, Chechnya
+ 50.0 -LIGHT INTERMEDIATE Northern India, Jordan, Arabia, Pakistan, South Africa (Cape), Eastern Nepal

+ 46.6 +INTERMEDIATE India (Bengal), Peru (Nunoa), Brazilian Guaranis, Botswana (Khoi people), Southern India
+ 43.3 INTERMEDIATE India, Southern Libya, Southern Africa (San people), Peru (Maranon)
+ 40.0 -INTERMEDIATE Peru, South Africa, Papua New Guinea (Port Moresby)

+ 36.6 +DARK INTERMEDIATE
+ 33.3 DARK INTERMEDIATE Sudan, Papua New Guinea, Mali (Dogon people), Ethiopian Highlands,
+ 30.0 -DARK INTERMEDIATE Zaire, Kenya, India (Orissa), Namibia (Rehoboth Baster), Ethiopia

+ 26.6 +DARK Liberia, Burkina Faso (Kurumba), Nigeria (Ebo, Yoruba), Malawi
+ 23.3 DARK Namibia, Tanzania (Nyatura), Chad (Sara)
+ 20.0 -DARK Namibia (Okavango)

- 20.0 VERY DARK Mozambique (Chopi), Australia (Darwin)

[Brännvin]

Is Dianne Krüger naturally dark, medium or light blonde actually?

In some way, women are always bad examples in this matter. ;)

[Crimson Guard]

Pigmentation is largely the effect of adaptation and environment.

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu253/Tyranos/beddoe.jpg

Brunette-white on the Von Luschan scale is #9-16 while Olive/Brunette Brown is #15-18 respectively:

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu253/Tyranos/MapCoon-Biasutti.jpg

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu253/Tyranos/skin.jpg

[Stefan]

Seeing this thread, makes me feel less "dark" than I thought I was.

I think we should discuss opacity as well. Some skin tones are more translucent than others.

[la bombe]

To me (and the rest of the US I'm sure), 'brunette' just means brown-haired.

[Hussar]

To me (and the rest of the US I'm sure), 'brunette' just means brown-haired.


But in this case even large part of north-europeans in Europe and in the USA are "brunette".

[Freomæg]

But in this case even large part of north-europeans in Europe and in the USA are "brunette".
Yes, they are - as far as I'm concerned. I've never doubted that large numbers of northern Europeans are brunette. To me it means nothing more than 'brown-haired'. By that I mean strong brown, not light brown or dirty blonde. This is why I personally find it strange that black-haired latinos and middle-eastern girls are often referred to as 'brunette'. I always thought of 'brunette' as referring to darker-haired Europeans as opposed to simply anyone not blonde.

[Crimson Guard]

Well they are brunettes. When people refer to someone as a brunette, it usually means someone with dark hair, whether it's dark brown or black. As far as I'm aware brunette includes Black hair. There is no official distinction. Black hair is just the darkest shade of brown, it just deviates to the darker end of the brunet spectrum thats all basically. There is nothing suspicious or strange about it either.

There are people(past and present) in central and northern Europe noted as being jet-black or using some other semantic adjective such as 'raven haired'. And nobody would bother to think of lumping them in with Latinos and Middle Easterners(nor are those people uniformly all 'black haired' for that matter).

Welsh Beauty is in the Genes


Catherine [Zeta Jones] is a case of a natural Celtic beauty.

"She stands out in Hollywood as the one with the curves and the jet black hair - that comes from her Welsh blood - when a lot of women can look a bit bland."

The idea of classic Welsh features that are passed down through the generations is one supported by Swansea-based academic, Professor Paul Brain.

The evolutionary zoologist has done a number of studies on the link between biology and psychology and believes the Welsh gene pool has elements which can help women with a Welsh heritage in the beauty stakes.

"In Welsh women, I suspect that it is something to do with their overall shape - the symmetry of their facial features is very regular.

"They tend to have long lustrous dark hair and are pretty fine boned."

...

"With Welsh women, the contrast in their looks - between the Celtic dark hair and the white of their skins - is an attractive combination.

Mr Breverton said pictures of historical Welsh beauties, such as Nell Gwyn, the mistress of Charles II, showed they had full lips.

...

"Zeta Jones is typically Welsh looking and has dark skin which is not unusual in the south west region of Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/2776037.stm



Anthropologically this all holds true as well:



The face of the Mediterranid is oval, perhaps tapering below more than that of the Nordid.The ears tend to be smaller, the lips somewhat thicker. The differences between the sexes are more marked, the hips of the Mediterranid women being relatively wider. Apart from these morphologically differences, the scalp-hair is very dark brown(commonly called black), and the iris also very dark. (John Baker, RACE 1974)

And from Biasutti


1. Mediterranean

Skin color “matte”-white or brunet-white, chestnut or dark chestnut eyes and hair, not excessive pilosity; medium-low stature (162), body of moderately longilinear forms; dolichomorphic skull (78) with rounded occiput; oval face; leptorrhine nose (68) with straight spine, horizontal or inclined downwards base of the septum; large open eyes.

5. Alpine

Opaque-white skin color, chestnust hair and eyes; medium stature (164), stocky body build with short neck, broad pelvis and shoulders, somewhat short limbs; wide skull (87) rather low, with rounded occiput; wide roundish face, short nose with straight or concave profile, somewhat large nostrils (70).

7. Adriatic (Dinaric)

Brunet-white skin, straight hair, chestnut or dark chestnut, sometimes lighter eyes; high stature (174), robust body build with long legs, but high transverse diameters of the trunk; short skull (85) and quite high, with flattened occiput; large nose, leptorrhine (62) with straight or convex spine; long face, more often wide and rounded in women; deep chin.

[Mortimer]

very light (nordic and baltic)
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:8ufTKcxktLdYHM:http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3227/2704726968_07c5272a5d_o.jpg

[safinator]

"Classical" brunet for me is someone with brown (light brown, medium brown, chestnut, dark brown) hair and brown eyes.

I think light brown isn't brunette cathegory considering ofc he isn't swarthy skinned.

[Corvus]

In Serbia and Croatia there is only one skin type
Everybody is ultra super light unable to tan and almost so transparet you can see through the body

[The Alchemist]

It depends obviously on stardards. Someone like me, for exemple, is considered dark in the germanic countries, but rather light in the south of the Mediterranean, for exemple ( have medium brown hair and eyes). I mean this:

28244

[riverman]

It depends obviously on stardards. Someone like me, for exemple, is considered dark in the germanic countries, but rather light in the south of the Mediterranean, for exemple ( have medium brown hair and eyes). I mean this:

28244

Yes that's medium going to light brown to me, for lighter shades of brunet there are descriptive words like 'mousy'(lighter than that), and even lighter shade 'chestnut' auburn or tawny, but straight brunet to me is medium to dark without other colors, otherwise, it's described in some manner.

[Jackson]

To me (and the rest of the US I'm sure), 'brunette' just means brown-haired.

That's always what i thought. Brunette = Posh word for Brown.

[Anthropologique]

Only a small percentage of Western Europeans are darker than pale olive. Most are very light to "intermediate fair."

[riverman]

Mediterranean "Olive" is not that dark. Isn't Teresa Salgueiro a better example?

Or Isabel Figueira

http://cache02.stormap.sapo.pt/fotostore02/fotos//91/58/5a/1770818_VmDKO.jpeg

Totally agree. "Olive" IMO literally means a golden olive tone/base to the complexion, the other example is light brown.

[The Alchemist]

Yes that's medium going to light brown to me, for lighter shades of brunet there are descriptive words like 'mousy'(lighter than that), and even lighter shade 'chestnut' auburn or tawny, but straight brunet to me is medium to dark without other colors, otherwise, it's described in some manner.

Ok, but exactly that pigmentation that i posted is considered "dark" in North Germany where i live, and "light" in Italy. I'm sure of it, since i've lived in many parts of Europe.

[Anthropologique]

Totally agree. "Olive" IMO literally means a golden olive tone/base to the complexion, the other example is light brown.

Sorry, she's heavily tanned.

[Didriksson]

I wonder where would you place her:
http://muslib.ru/pb/19/198054/jenny-berggren_2051347.jpg
http://www.inblick.se/Files/Billeder/Reportage/Jenny_Berggren640.jpg
http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/49005017/Jenny+Berggren+4953_96024931777_95670126777_2.jpg

[Anthropologique]

^^
Isabel Figueira without a tan.28315

[Didriksson]

^^
Isabel Figueira without a tan.28315

You can't tell if she's really tanned or not, it's a photoshoped picture.

[Anthropologique]

I wonder where would you place her:
http://muslib.ru/pb/19/198054/jenny-berggren_2051347.jpg
http://www.inblick.se/Files/Billeder/Reportage/Jenny_Berggren640.jpg
http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/49005017/Jenny+Berggren+4953_96024931777_95670126777_2.jpg

Light to intermediate light. Atlantic facade looking.

[Didriksson]

........

[The Alchemist]

^ Germany or Poland.

[Slycooper]

Southern euro's are never as dark as the olive color shown unless very tanned.

[riverman]

Sorry, she's heavily tanned.

Olive still isn't light brown though, it's a specific tone, at least in some cultures.

[Anthropologique]

Southern euro's are never as dark as the olive color shown unless very tanned.

For certain.

[Anthropologique]

What about her:


Germany.

[Didriksson]

......

[Geni]

I think albanian are south euro... in Albania gipsy are so dark like mediterran woman

[Slycooper]

It's a big myth that Iberians are dark.

[Comte Arnau]

Olive skin in Iberian literature usually refers to the Gypsies.

[Didriksson]

Light to intermediate light. Atlantic facade looking.

She's Swedish.

[Tropico]

Im pretty much as brunette as one can get. Darkish brown hair, dark brown eyes and intermediate.

[gregorius]

Im pretty much as brunette as one can get. Darkish brown hair, dark brown eyes and intermediate.

:rotfl:

[Tropico]

:rotfl:

I donut comprehendo

[gregorius]

I donut comprehendo

co mera te piesa tu quania basta te viero cùz tera mi faggo ezla te besta

[Tropico]

co mera te piesa tu quania basta te viero cùz tera mi faggo ezla te besta

que paso un moco y mosca se fueron a comer un pescado pero el león dijo que no porque el cielo dijo que si.

[gregorius]

que paso un moco y mosca se fueron a comer un pescado pero el león dijo que no porque el cielo dijo que si.

mako te piero gu vazo te queqa vu mano mano puero

[Tropico]

mako te piero gu vazo te queqa vu mano mano puero

Hijo de gran burrito me a voy a Guatemala para ver Españoles porque Venezuela gatos

[gregorius]

dude dont act like you can understand me :cool: Im talking an Argentinian cordoban dialect whoch nobody can understand

[Tropico]

dude dont act like you can understand me :cool: Im talking an Argentinian cordoban dialect whoch nobody can understand

Pollo frito

[The Alchemist]

I'm surpriced, i went to the "skin doctor" and said that i have nordic skin (skintone II), i was always convincted i had III because i have a yellowish undertone....or maybe it might change with a different clima, when i used to live in the south i remember that i was much darker, also hair and eyes.

[Trun]

I'm surpriced, i went to the "skin doctor" and said that i have nordic skin (skintone II), i was always convincted i had III because i have a yellowish undertone....or maybe it might change with a different clima, when i used to live in the south i remember that i was much darker, also hair and eyes.

Seeing your picture, I think your pigmentation is pretty average for Bulgaria.

[The Alchemist]

Seeing your picture, I think your pigmentation is pretty average for Bulgaria.
i'm not the one in my avatar :rolleyes2:
And my pigmentation is normal for central europe.

[Freeroostah]

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/01af-ton-clar.png?t=1255464921
http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/01af-ton-fosc.png?t=1255465001

I am a South euro but the problem is that I am way more darker than her lol
On the other hand I find the Mediterranean hot girl a bit darker for olive....!

[Trun]

i'm not the one in my avatar :rolleyes2:

I like your wog sense of humor :P


I am a South euro but the problem is that I am way more darker than her lol

Men are darker than women in general.

[Virtuous]

Body and Soul, why do you have Twistedmind as your avatar?

[The Alchemist]

Body and Soul, why do you have Twistedmind as your avatar?

Because he's too hot!!!

[Trun]

Body and Soul, why do you have Twistedmind as your avatar?

He is type -1 on Gangplank's scale. Or was it Blitzcrank? I don't remember...

[Übermensch]

Pigmentation of hair can change with age, for istance i was whitish-flaxen blond haired as a kid now i am more on the dark-medium blond side:

As a kid

35867

Now:

35868

Of course most of blond shades in Europe would be similar to my current one, i guess.

[Dylan]

I am thinking southern euro with the term "mediterranean olive" and that complexion is unusual here and everywhere else in southern europe. I think it doesn't get darker than say Nuno Gomes and Alessandro Nesta without foreign admix.

Nesta is probably too dark to be considered at all normal for southern europeans. It would take a long time to find a full Italian with skin as dark as his. It's arguable, but I think he's past the edge.