Scandinavians with Russian matches?

[drogin]

Scandinavians; how many Russian relatives do you got? What's normal?

I got about 14 matches on gedmatch(some also on ftdna), (that I have verified is 100% Russian).
The closest matches are:
9.6cM,17.9 total
9.7cM,12.7 total
9cM, 32.3 total
15cM, 15cM total

A list of surnames include:
Zakenova, Goryacheva, Tikhonov, Tikhonova, Kapustina, Viktorovich, Vorontsov, Sharankov, Bertenev, Milenia, Dronov, Andreva, Berezhnoy

Is this normal ancient geneflow? Or is it reason to believe there's either a Scandinavian/Finn who went to Russia, or the other way around?

[SSlava]

I have more than 50 matches with British or some other Germans; it is possible
there is a Swedeihs among them.
I in matches have no Finns.
I found even a match with the Albanian from
this forum))

[Corvus]

The Vikings founded Russia. So ofc this led to an influence in the Gene Pool.

[Fire Haired]

There has been inter marriage with Russia and Finland for sure which could explain 15% Y DNA I1 in northwestern Russia. There really isn't that much evidence of major Rus(so Swedish) Viking inter marriage. of course there is stuff in Y DNA and even aust dna that shows it happens but it was not major. in aust dna i am going to go by globe13 test the only group to originate in Europe and probably arrived over 30,000ybp is called North Euro. Which is most popular in Scandinavia and Russia because they were the farthest away from inter marriage with mainly Med then minority southwest Asian and west asian farmers who spread acroos Europe mainly 9,000-6,000ybp. I have seen so many diff aust dna tests that have a similar group to globe13 north euro actulley almost all and it is distributed the same why. It should be called really European or Paleolithic European or northeast European. So that could also be an explanation for why Scandinavians can get Russian relatives but i don't know how they do the whole relative thing. But it would make sense that in Aust dna Russians and Scandinavians are very similar really because they are the most European Europeans. in my aust DNA test i got mainly Mediterranean but it was the "who am i" test from Geno 2.0 they same the same thing North Euro Paleolithic Med and their southwest Asian Neolithic. What doesn't make sense is that in all these tests the average European is only half European and half mid eastern. The how do u explain that Sami who have around 80% north Euro in globe13 look no diff than French who have under 50%. Something is wrong.

[drogin]

My father has forest-finn heritage from his mothers side, and northern-norwegian on his fathers side, both which I suppose has potential to have interchanged dna with Russia, so I guess that's the answer.
Thus I suppose gedmatch and ftdna is exaggerating how close the matches are. For instance it says 5 generations, but I suppose 10 generations sounds more appropriate.

[Peikko]

The Vikings founded Russia. So ofc this led to an influence in the Gene Pool.
BS, really.

[sevruk]

The Vikings founded Russia. So ofc this led to an influence in the Gene Pool.

No, Russian is still not close to any Scandinavians genetically

[SSlava]

:rolleyes:

[Austrvegr]

The Vikings founded Russia. So ofc this led to an influence in the Gene Pool.

First Russians founded Scandinavia. See the story of aR1an Odin and Aesir migrating to Scandinavia from Russia and subjugating the native I1 Vanir.

[Peikko]

First Russians founded Scandinavia. See the story of aR1an Odin and Aesir migrating to Scandinavia from Russia and subjugating the native I1 Vanir.

First Russians were Finns.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

But the viking founded the state of russia which came out of kievan rus. I'm sure mostly finnlike people were there once but now there's not many finns and not many actual "russians" like the ones who founded the state.

[Austrvegr]

First Russians were Finns.

Finns do not exist. And never did.

[Austrvegr]

But the viking founded the state of russia which came out of kievan rus. I'm sure mostly finnlike people were there once but now there's not many finns and not many actual "russians" like the ones who founded the state.

No, Vikings were employed by Slavic aristocracy.

[sevruk]

First Russians were Finns.

ha-ha

[Corvus]

But the viking founded the state of russia which came out of kievan rus. I'm sure mostly finnlike people were there once but now there's not many finns and not many actual "russians" like the ones who founded the state.

I know that this theory is not very poplular in Russia and is always denied. I don`t know the reason. Tell an Italian his population derives from Vikings and he will be delighted, Russians do not perceive it this way.

[Peikko]

Finns do not exist. And never did.
So what am I then?

I know that this theory is not very poplular in Russia and is always denied. I don`t know the reason. Tell an Italian his population derives from Vikings and he will be delighted, Russians do not perceive it this way.
You should open a history thread about this.

[Olika]

I know that this theory is not very poplular in Russia and is always denied. I don`t know the reason. Tell an Italian his population derives from Vikings and he will be delighted, Russians do not perceive it this way.

ha because it is not true.

[Corvus]

All Russians think I troll them and consistently give me thumbs down, well I am proud to tell you that this is not my intention,
on the contrary I admire Russians and for me they will also be the descendants of Vikings :)

[Smeagol]

The Vikings founded Russia. So ofc this led to an influence in the Gene Pool.

Why would it have? Slavs would have been the majority.

[Corvus]

Why would it have? Slavs would have been the majority.


Slavs were originally Norseman from Scandinavia.

The early history of Russia, like those of many countries, is one of migrating peoples and ancient kingdoms. In fact, early Russia was not exactly "Russia," but a collection of cities that gradually coalesced into an empire. In the early part of the ninth century, as part of the same great movement that brough the Danes to England and the Norsemen to Western Europe, a Scandanavian people known as the Varangians crossed the Baltic Sea and landed in Eastern Europe. The leader of the Varangians was the semilegendary warrior Rurik, who led his people in 862 to the city of Novgorod on the Volkhov River. Whether Rurik took the city by force or was invited to rule there, he certainly invested the city. From Novgorod, Rurik's successor Oleg extended the power of the city southward. In 882, he gained control of Kiev, a Slavic city that had arisen along the Dnepr River around the 5th century. Oleg's attainment of rule over Kiev marked the first establishment of a unified, dynastic state in the region. Kiev became the center of a trade route between Scandinavia and Constantinople, and Kievan Rus', as the empire came to be known, flourished for the next three hundred years

[Peikko]

Slavs were originally Norseman from Scandinavia.

The early history of Russia, like those of many countries, is one of migrating peoples and ancient kingdoms. In fact, early Russia was not exactly "Russia," but a collection of cities that gradually coalesced into an empire. In the early part of the ninth century, as part of the same great movement that brough the Danes to England and the Norsemen to Western Europe, a Scandanavian people known as the Varangians crossed the Baltic Sea and landed in Eastern Europe. The leader of the Varangians was the semilegendary warrior Rurik, who led his people in 862 to the city of Novgorod on the Volkhov River. Whether Rurik took the city by force or was invited to rule there, he certainly invested the city. From Novgorod, Rurik's successor Oleg extended the power of the city southward. In 882, he gained control of Kiev, a Slavic city that had arisen along the Dnepr River around the 5th century. Oleg's attainment of rule over Kiev marked the first establishment of a unified, dynastic state in the region. Kiev became the center of a trade route between Scandinavia and Constantinople, and Kievan Rus', as the empire came to be known, flourished for the next three hundred years
:picard1::picard1::picard1::picard1::picard1::pica rd1::picard1::picard1::picard1::picard1::picard1:
Believe what you want, dude. But genetics doesn't support it.

[Argang]

I think this is noteworthy regarding Russia and supposed viking admixture.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/yDNA_I1/default.aspx?section=ymap
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1a/default.aspx?section=ymap
Only some I1 subclades, mainly L22+ etc. and Z73 (L1301+ as well) are associated with Vikings or Scandinavians. The number of I1 Russians is (as expected) very small compared to R1a, many of them don't belong to mentioned subclades and those who do could still be result of later mixing, their earliest reported ancestors seem to be recent which supports the idea.

Russians would need to test more frequently to make a statistically significant sample of I1 for a more accurate picture, but for now I see no reason to believe they have significant Viking ancestry.

[sevruk]

I think this is noteworthy regarding Russia and supposed viking admixture.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/yDNA_I1/default.aspx?section=ymap
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1a/default.aspx?section=ymap
Only some I1 subclades, mainly L22+ etc. and Z73 (L1301+ as well) are associated with Vikings or Scandinavians. The number of I1 Russians is (as expected) very small compared to R1a, many of them don't belong to mentioned subclades and those who do could still be result of later mixing, their earliest reported ancestors seem to be recent which supports the idea.

Russians would need to test more frequently to make a statistically significant sample of I1 for a more accurate picture, but for now I see no reason to believe they have significant Viking ancestry.
Definitely, Russian have a later origin of the Scandinavian Y-DNA.
For example there were many captives Swedes, after Great Northern War, which remained in Russia

[Peikko]

Definitely, Russian have a later origin of the Scandinavian Y-DNA.
For example there were many captives Swedes, after Great Northern War, which remained in Russia
Most of those "Swedes" were probably Finns. But I agree, there could be more recent mixing with Swedes and Russians, than Vikings. Even if Russia was founded by Varyags, they would have been only a small ruling elite.

Most of I1 in NW Russia probably comes from Finns, like Firey Haired said.

[Argang]

Most of those "Swedes" were probably Finns. But I agree, there could be more recent mixing with Swedes and Russians, than Vikings. Even if Russia was founded by Varyags, they would have been only a small ruling elite.

Most of I1 in NW Russia probably comes from Finns, like Firey Haired said.

IMO that's unlikely. Vast majority of Finnish I1 belongs in subclades L287+ and L300+ which is even more rare in Russia than Scandi subclades. In the FTDNA I1 project I think the only samples are from Karelia which is where you'd expect to find Finns.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml

[Peikko]

IMO that's unlikely. Vast majority of Finnish I1 belongs in subclades L287+ and L300+ which is even more rare in Russia than Scandi subclades. In the FTDNA I1 project I think the only samples are from Karelia which is where you'd expect to find Finns.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml

Yes, there has been more recent Finnish migrations to NW Russia, which has brought some I1 to Russia. Here's something interesting:
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/35541095

[Argang]

Yes, there has been more recent Finnish migrations to NW Russia, which has brought some I1 to Russia. Here's something interesting:
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/35541095

Thanks. Here we see how swiftly science marches on, if that study had been done this year they could have tested that ancient Russian I1 for various subclades we know of (or types possibly ancestral to some of them), which undoubtedly would have given us a much clearer picture of these people's movements, and to what extent they are present in current Russian population.

[Not a Cop]

Definitely, Russian have a later origin of the Scandinavian Y-DNA.
For example there were many captives Swedes, after Great Northern War, which remained in Russia


Can't that be associated with Germans? It's the only really major mixing with Western Europeans i can think of

[Argang]

Since the number of Russians in I1 project is so small (~40) you shouldn't draw too drastic conclusions from this, but here's a rough assignment of their I1 subclades, as defined by Eupedia:

About 40% "Nordic" subclades or suggested to test for them
About 40% "German" subclades (Z58+, Z63+ or suggested testing)
20% other subclades

[Olika]

All Russians think I troll them and consistently give me thumbs down, well I am proud to tell you that this is not my intention,
on the contrary I admire Russians and for me they will also be the descendants of Vikings :)
what nonsense are you said

[Twistedmind]

I know that this theory is not very poplular in Russia and is always denied. I don`t know the reason. Tell an Italian his population derives from Vikings and he will be delighted, Russians do not perceive it this way.

Errr, lets repeat some facts:
1) Varangians arrived in Novgorod not in Kiev. Kiev was conquered latter.
2) Varangian theory says about descendant of Rurikid dinasty from Scandinavia, not about Russian people. Seems that most of surviving Rurikids have N1c1 subclade charachteristic for Sweden, so this acctually may confirm ancient sources.
3) Russians do not show significant overlap with neither finns, nor Scandos, but with Belarussians and Poles, both phenotypicaly and genotypicaly.

[Visitor_22]

Rus was found by varangians of scandinavian origin. Varangian is greek word for scandinavians/vikings.

[Austrvegr]

Scandinavia was founded by aR1an Odin and the AEsir of Russian origin.