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Baluarte
09-18-2013, 05:15 PM
Genetically Modified Babies

http://www.globalresearch.ca/genetically-modified-babies/5350370

Next month, the US Food and Drug Administration will hold a two-day public meeting to discuss genetic modification within the human egg, which changes will be passed on generationally. The United Kingdom is also moving to allow GM babies.

Human gene therapy has been ongoing since 1990, but most of that involved non-heritable genes, called somatic (non-sex cell) gene therapy. Somatic modifications only affect the individual and are not passed on, and so do not affect the human genome.

The game changed with the successful birth of at least 30 genetically modified babies by 2001. Half of the babies engineered from one clinic developed defects, so the FDA stepped in and asserted jurisdiction over “the use of human cells that receive genetic material by means other than the union of gamete nuclei” (sperm and egg nuclei).

Now the FDA is considering going forward with “oocyte modification” which involves genetic material from a second woman, whereby offspring will carry the DNA from three parents. These kinds of genetic changes (“germline modification”) alter the human genome.

With ooplasmic transfer, the technique injects healthy mitochondrial DNA from a donor into the egg of an infertile woman. Mitochondrial DNA floats outside a cell’s nucleus which contains the regular DNA, and is only inherited from the mother.

This is the first such meeting ever to be held in public by the FDA, reports Biopolitical Times (BPT), speculating that the meeting will likely include discussing a mitochondrial replacement technique developed by Shoukhrat Mitalipov at Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU).

Notes the BPT, “mitochondrial replacement is a form of inheritable genetic modification.” This type of gene therapy is the source of much controversy, because it permanently changes the human genome and risks unforeseeable changes in growth and development, and aging.

As late as 2008, all germline modification therapies and enhancements were banned in 83% of the 30 nations making up the OECD (Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development), including the US and UK, reports the Center for Genetics and Society (CGS).

In June of this year, the United Kingdom reversed its long-standing policy against germline modification, and decided to go ahead with three-parent babies. Regulations on the procedure are now being drafted and Members of Parliament are expected to vote on the issue in 2014.

Testifying before the US House Foreign Affairs Committee, Subcommittee on Terrorism, Nonproliferation and Trade in 2008, CGS Executive Director Richard Hayes advised:

“Most people strongly support therapeutic applications of genetic science, but they also realize that the manipulation of inheritable genetic traits crosses a consequential barrier. In the great majority of instances, couples at risk of passing on a serious genetic disease can ensure that their child is disease-free by means of medically-related trait selection, thus obviating the need for the far more complex and risk-prone intervention that germline modification would entail.”

Making humans better, smarter, stronger has long been the goal of eugenicists. Hayes warns:

“Germline enhancement has also been seriously proposed as a means of creating people with such novel cognitive, psychological, and behavioral traits that they would constitute a new, ‘post-human’ species, incapable of interbreeding with ‘normal’ humans.”

Paul Knoepfler, Associate Professor of Cell Biology and Human Anatomy at the University of California, Davis School of Medicine, commented that:

“Moving one oocyte nucleus into the enucleated oocyte of another person could trigger all kinds of devastating problems (most likely through epigenetic changes) that might not manifest until you try to make a human being out of it. Then it’s too late.”

BPT shares in this opposition:

“If the FDA gives the OHSU researchers a green light to move towards human clinical trials, it will be the first instance of regulatory approval for human germline modification ever, anywhere in the world.

”Given the current regulatory void in the United States and the paucity of safety data, allowing scientists to experiment with creating permanent changes to the human genome is a genie that must be kept in the bottle.”

As with genetically modified crops, a host of unforeseen and deleterious consequences may develop when we begin modifying humans with genes their children will inherit. GM feed is linked with infertility and spontaneous abortions in livestock, and crops modified to be insecticidal are linked to declining pollinator populations, especially bees, moths and bats.

But another argument against germline modification is that it will lead to designer babies and a new class of underdogs – those who cannot afford genetic enhancement.

Eugenicists and futurists like Ray Kurzweil (The Singularity Is Near, 2006) foresee and welcome the convergence of the NBIC fields that can improve human performance: nanotechnology, biotechnology, information technology and cognitive science.

In 2001, over 50 policy makers and scientists from a range of fields contributed to a National Science Foundation-sponsored workshop on converging NBIC technologies. Within the individual, group and societal level discussions, they addressed key areas of human activity: working, learning, aging, group interaction and human evolution. The consensus reached was to focus a national R&D priority on human enhancement.

In re-opening the allowance for GM babies, whose genetic changes will be passed on to future generations, the FDA is taking the next steps toward toeing the line on genetic human enhancement.

In addition to accepting written comments, the FDA, in collaboration with the Office of Cellular Tissue and Gene Therapies Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, will also provide a free webcast of the two-day discussion. The meeting may be rescheduled without notice, the FDA warns.

An earlier version of this article first appeared at Activist Post.

Methusalem
09-18-2013, 05:19 PM
Discusting. Reminds me of this:

http://criticalperception.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/gattaca.jpg

MissProvocateur
09-18-2013, 05:22 PM
I actually support genetic engineering of humans. It could fix a lot of health problems, and if you want to choose the best genes from the parents, why the hell not? If people can afford it, let them make a brighter future for their children.

Methusalem
09-18-2013, 05:35 PM
I actually support genetic engineering of humans. It could fix a lot of health problems, and if you want to choose the best genes from the parents, why the hell not? If people can afford it, let them make a brighter future for their children.

As if everyone could afford it. Let alone that we still don't know how all functional genes work and interact with each other in the long term. Welcome to a new chapter in human history. A new class society with modified mutants on the top and non-modified 'humans' on the bottom. Let us now pray to our master mutant Wolverine.

Prisoner Of Ice
09-18-2013, 08:19 PM
Seems like a nightmare. On the other has genetically modified babies stuffed with genes to make them look white might be funny.

Fortis in Arduis
09-18-2013, 11:03 PM
I actually support genetic engineering of humans. It could fix a lot of health problems, and if you want to choose the best genes from the parents, why the hell not? If people can afford it, let them make a brighter future for their children.

This is already happening to some extent. In IVF treatment, only the best sperm and subsequent blastocysts are selected. It will happen, and there will be nothing to stop it. Furthermore, it is probably already happening to a greater degree, but more covertly so. If one had the means, of course one would be tempted to do it.

hobosmurf
09-18-2013, 11:07 PM
Yeah let's ban it for everyone since some people can't get it :lightbul:

mr. logan
09-18-2013, 11:36 PM
Gene expression of a sickness comes from a chain of different gene mutations. A person gets borned with x sickness, because its ancestors bodies mutated in a way to get them erased from nature. If this antural selection gets artificially tweaked, the body will get the right balance somewhere else inside naturally. System problems will continue appearing, even worse, cause they are not a generational mutation but would be a faster and more aggressive mutation to compensate.

Fire Haired
09-19-2013, 12:48 AM
It can help with dieses and just helo people be more healthy smart etc. But we cant go to far and to against nature.

Neanderthal
09-19-2013, 12:57 AM
As if everyone could afford it. Let alone that we still don't know how all functional genes work and interact with each other in the long term. Welcome to a new chapter in human history. A new class society with modified mutants on the top and non-modified 'humans' on the bottom. Let us now pray to our master mutant Wolverine.

This. Genetic modifications will only lead to (more) struggles for human race, discrimination, classism, etc.


Gene expression of a sickness comes from a chain of different gene mutations. A person gets borned with x sickness, because its ancestors bodies mutated in a way to get them erased from nature. If this antural selection gets artificially tweaked, the body will get the right balance somewhere else inside naturally. System problems will continue appearing, even worse, cause they are not a generational mutation but would be a faster and more aggressive mutation to compensate.

This is true too, weak/non suitable genes manifest so the one carrying them eventually perish without any descendence. Most mental and physical illness affect the carrier's external appearance too (down syndrome, etc.)

Benacer
09-19-2013, 01:12 AM
The issue is that this is too much trial and error, and the consequences may not be obvious until much later in life. There is a trade off for every little thing, and messing with something simple could have consequences on many seemingly unrelated characteristics. Engineering for a couple characteristics (such as preventing a congenital disease) may end up being harmless, but an attempt to create the "perfect" being will certainly be catastrophic, as there are more variables involved in every little thing than we can imagine.

Fire Haired
09-19-2013, 01:25 AM
The issue is that this is too much trial and error, and the consequences may not be obvious until much later in life. There is a trade off for every little thing, and messing with something simple could have consequences on many seemingly unrelated characteristics. Engineering for a couple characteristics (such as preventing a congenital disease) may end up being harmless, but an attempt to create the "perfect" being will certainly be catastrophic, as there are more variables involved in every little thing than we can imagine.

Very true but lets just say people develop technology were that doesn't happen. I think we should not become so materialistic and care so much about creating the perfect human and survival like Adolf Hitler. We need to still let things go by nature.

Not a Cop
09-19-2013, 04:50 PM
Actually i think that we can't avoid this in coming years, it's the simple rule of life, wich was in power for all the time of existence of Humanity - the one who first to adopt the new technology does always win - you can see it in all aspects of life - in sport sprinters are not being trained by runing anymore, but in Jym, in History - Japan was a closed county as much as it could, but in the end they were forced to westernize, not talking about weapons and wars.

It of course a much greater issue, because it touches the most important thing for a human - itself, but i do'nt think that in future we can use only a half of it like only healing and prevent genetical diseases - it sounds good, but i don't think it's possible.

Of course there will be protests, modified people probably would'nt be allowed to participate in sport competitions, there would be secretly modified people, who would hide that fact and etc, but in the end i think that we can't do anything to resist that tecnology.

Manifest Destiny
09-19-2013, 04:54 PM
I think it's a good idea. Think how much better life would be if we could eliminate birth defects, genetically passed on diseases, etc.

Roy
09-19-2013, 05:00 PM
It should be used only in order of preventic genetic illnesses and nothing else. The rest would be unethical and highly detrimental for humanity in long-term prospect. I don't find it amusing that people will be able to manipulate their children and nature itself. It is double-edged sword to say at least.

Oneeye
09-19-2013, 05:02 PM
It would be an interesting form of eugenics, but the people I feel need it the most probably won't be the ones using it.

Neanderthal
09-19-2013, 05:44 PM
Diseases are there for a reason, we shouldn't weed out that. Currently we are living sick and degenerated lives, humans are not made to live naturally past 60-70 years, the result of this genetical 'enhancements' would be this:

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1144260238/tigresa.jpg

This is unnatural and unnecessary, have some dignity and die when you're supossed to.

Manifest Destiny
09-19-2013, 05:50 PM
It would be an interesting form of eugenics, but the people I feel need it the most probably won't be the ones using it.

But then we'd be that much better than them! :cool:

We could hunt them down like Blade Runners. Is it too late to have Daryl Hannah sit on my face?

Neanderthal
09-19-2013, 06:01 PM
Tell that to my granny who is over 90 years old. True, her life for decades has been rather undproductive. But I'm happy to hear about the life of my ancestors from her own lips. Besides, her existence doesn't require much money and energy from her descendants. Not to mention the fact she gave the house and land. She could have chosen to live in a retirement house. In that case she really wouldn't take away anyone's time and energy. She would actually create more work places.

How does that old woman differ from her her:

http://www.inspirefusion.com/media/2011/russian_woman_lips4.jpg

They're both aesthetical pain in the ass. Otherwise I don't really care if some crazy woman old or young makes a joke of herself.

To me they are not a burden either, i'm talking about cases of degenerative/terminal diseases wich undermines their lives and people keep pushing medical aid to keep them alive. I can't talk for everybody, but for me, I wouldn't want that.

Fortis in Arduis
09-19-2013, 10:03 PM
I think it's a good idea. Think how much better life would be if we could eliminate birth defects, genetically passed on diseases, etc.

Think of this:

The best possible ova and spermatozoa are selected and from them many zygotes are created. These zygotes are screened, using the knowledge that we have of the human genome, looking for the best possible combinations, that have arisen naturally during the IVF process. The best zygotes are then implanted.

I do not see anything freaky about this, and it makes perfect sense to do it, not just to avoid disease, but to raise the standard. Any nation that embraces this use of technology will have the advantage.

I think of China's one child policy as a eugenic measure, as the first born child is generally the best, because the child is less likely to suffer from difficulties arising from mutations that have come as a result of aging. It was a very clever policy.

Eugenic measures could be as simple as deciding to have a child at the optimum biological age, or undergoing detoxification and rejuvenation prior to conception, or indeed as technologically advanced as the method that I first mentioned. I would draw the line at inserting or creating genetic sequences which do not occur naturally in the parents.

Balmung
09-19-2013, 10:06 PM
Its happening.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZAhqEiq4cA

Prisoner Of Ice
09-19-2013, 10:12 PM
Another big problem is while right now evolution is picking up due to larger population sizes (believe it or not) when you use genetic engineering it means that progress halts. That's what has happened with plant breeding. We will never get a truly new variety for wine again just chardonnay with all the known enhancing DNA additions for disease resistance.

Methusalem
09-19-2013, 10:12 PM
Diseases are there for a reason, we shouldn't weed out that. Currently we are living sick and degenerated lives, humans are not made to live naturally past 60-70 years, the result of this genetical 'enhancements' would be this:

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1144260238/tigresa.jpg

This is unnatural and unnecessary, have some dignity and die when you're supossed to.

Many people think thst scientists can just exclude some genes whivh are responsible for a disease without having any other complications. But itthere is evidence thst certain negative gen expressions like disease correlate with positive gen expression like an higher iq. There were studies done on ashkenazi jews which suggest this. So funtionality of our genes way to complex. There are every year new discoveries. For example regarding the socalled 'junk' genes. Everything else of modified super humans id hence wishful pie in the sky.

Prisoner Of Ice
09-19-2013, 10:20 PM
There's some genes you could safely snip but for the most part the human genome project has shown disease is not a matter of obvious genetics. Meaning it's a bunch of genes working together + how you develop that causes the vast majority of disease. So you can't really engineer a baby to be less diseased unless you did something like take the family DNA of someone like me where everyone lives to be 100 without going to the doctor as a starting point. It's a lot of rare genes working together in individual ways combined with nutrition and such, not some obviously bad genes - most people with diabetes don't have some invalid gene to snip for example.

Same goes for the positive. Aside from a couple standouts like certain X chromosome variants, there's no couple genes that controll much of IQ, it's a bunch of rare genes working together.

So unless you want to basically raise someone else's kid I don't think this is something that you can get much positive use out of anyway. So like it turned out with plants, it's going to mostly cause problems more than anything. Much better just to test baby's dna at 2 months into pregnancy and abort if it has something major like down syndrome wrong with it.

Terrifies me how blase people are about something that can be truly world wrecking, that people want to do just for the hell of it.

Not a Cop
09-19-2013, 11:51 PM
We're heading towards movie Gatacca scenario.


The complete determination of your nature and capabilities before you are born sounds scary. In the end probably the state (not parents) will have the final say what citizens it needs.

That would be not Gattaca, but Brave New World

Prisoner Of Ice
09-19-2013, 11:56 PM
The thing about that is, too, how do you know what genes theya re really putting in there? Maybe they will say the genes that make people the least aggressive/easiest to manage are IQ genes or something. Would not surprise me in the least.