Why do Jewish members think ancient Jews were white?

[Behrouz]

We reconstructed the genetic structure of the Levantines and found that a pre-Islamic expansion Levant was more genetically similar to Europeans than to Middle Easterners.
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1003316

have no semitic race grow up man....

Why do they think like this? Weren't ancient Jews brown Semitic slaves carrying stones not to attract the wrath of Pharaoh?

http://affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/wp-content/uploads/building_a_pyramid_bw.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TQKdCAMECR8/TePq_kldQVI/AAAAAAAAAFE/A4kIUO6aQAQ/s1600/hebrew_slaves%25281%2529.jpg

[Vesuvian Sky]

What's interesting about the Old Testament, is that its apparently the only source that mentions ancient Hebrews as "yoked" by Pharoh. Also, there are the journals left behind of the pyramid builders which suggests that the pyramids were actually built by a very dedicated skilled labor force of local origin that could only be "in on it" if they believed here in Pharoh's cause.

Historical accuracies or inaccuracies aside, ancient Hebrews would have looked typical to where they were at the time. Things however changed after the diaspora.

[ariel]

i giving you genetic study and you giving me tales from the bible.its just a joke.

[Behrouz]

Yeah sure, ancient Levant was a Nordic heaven.

[ariel]

Yeah sure, ancient Levant was a Nordic heaven.

Our time estimate of divergence between the Levantine and European components (~15,900-9,100 y.a) overlaps with the transition to agriculture in the Levant ~11,000 y.a but is also slightly earlier than the proposed expansion to Europe starting at ~9,000 y.a. [23]–[25]. In agreement with this, a recent study of complete mtDNA sequences also proposed earlier expansion dates (19,000-12,000 y.a) of certain female lineages from the Near East to Europe [26]. These results suggest that population migration to Europe from the Near East could have started after the LGM warming and continued until the Neolithic. In addition, these results show that the modern European genetic component is more recent than would be expected from a component that developed from the initial peopling of Europe in the Upper Paleolithic ~40,000 y.a

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1003316

[daedal1]

i giving you genetic study and you giving me tales from the bible.its just a joke.

No, the genetic study shows that levantines are related to west asians + europeans, but iranians,armenians, levantines, etc. are still closer to palestinians than to Germans or French.

[Benacer]

What is "white"? I'd think they were less arabized than today's levantines, probably a mostly West Asian+South Euro mix.

[daedal1]

Our time estimate of divergence between the Levantine and European components (~15,900-9,100 y.a) overlaps with the transition to agriculture in the Levant ~11,000 y.a but is also slightly earlier than the proposed expansion to Europe starting at ~9,000 y.a. [23]–[25]. In agreement with this, a recent study of complete mtDNA sequences also proposed earlier expansion dates (19,000-12,000 y.a) of certain female lineages from the Near East to Europe [26]. These results suggest that population migration to Europe from the Near East could have started after the LGM warming and continued until the Neolithic. In addition, these results show that the modern European genetic component is more recent than would be expected from a component that developed from the initial peopling of Europe in the Upper Paleolithic ~40,000 y.a

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1003316

That specific study only conducted surveys on lebanese christians/druze/muslims.

The same exact samples for cypriots, tuscans, palestinians, etc. are used here as well, and even cypriots are still shown to be closer to egyptians and bedouins than they are to most europeans. They're only closer to those specific europeans who have more west asian admixture in the first place.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ztxlQ68e19Q/TnC0Z0rW6bI/AAAAAAAAEHc/MQny_v-ygqQ/s1600/pca-caucasus.png

[Smeagol]

There is no real evidence the Jews were slaves in Egypt.

[daedal1]

What is "white"? I'd think they were less arabized than today's levantines, probably a mostly West Asian+South Euro mix.

Cypriots are non-arabized levantines and they're also the closest ones to europeans.

http://www.livemint.com/rf/Image-621x414/LiveMint/Period1/2013/03/27/Photos/Cyprus%20student%20protest--621x414.JPG

That's as far as they get in terms of 'whiteness'.

Do they remind you of brazilians?

[Benacer]

Cypriots are non-arabized levantines and they're also the closest ones to europeans.

http://www.livemint.com/rf/Image-621x414/LiveMint/Period1/2013/03/27/Photos/Cyprus%20student%20protest--621x414.JPG

That's as far as they get in terms of 'whiteness'.

Do they remind you of brazilians?

Yes, many could pass in Brazil. Not that's it's hard to pass here though, we have people from anywhere. We even have a good bunch of people with Levantine ancestry.

[riverman]

OP needs to define white, druze are white etc. etc.
were ancient Italians white? you get where i'm going with this, silly question

[daedal1]

OP needs to define white, druze are white etc. etc.
were ancient Italians white? you get where i'm going with this, silly question

People generally apply 'white' to designate CEU/central-european types.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ztxlQ68e19Q/TnC0Z0rW6bI/AAAAAAAAEHc/MQny_v-ygqQ/s1600/pca-caucasus.png

Even some other europeans could be borderline with respect to that.

[Anglojew]

Ancient Jews genetic heritage was a mix of Northern Semitic/Levantine and Indo-European with some minor other elements eg East African, Egyptian etc.

Northern Semites, Levantines and Indo-Europeans were all white in the ancient world.

[Smeagol]

Ancient Jews genetic heritage was a mix of Northern Semitic/Levantine and Indo-European with some minor other elements eg East African, Egyptian etc.

No.

[Anglojew]

No.

There was some minor historic contact with these Neighbouring populations. The Egyptians were themselves split into a white hamitic group and a mixed southern group (with Nubians). East African's were Ethiopians (Kushites) like Moses' wife. I'm sure these were minor admixtures and probably not widespread.

[daedal1]

Ancient Jews genetic heritage was a mix of Northern Semitic/Levantine and Indo-European with some minor other elements eg East African, Egyptian etc.

Northern Semities, Levantines and Indo-Europeans were all white in the ancient world.

There was no defined concept of 'whiteness' at that time, to begin with. However, there was an understanding of european vs asian.

Syrians were considered asiatic barbarians.

http://rbedrosian.com/Sex/Isaac_2006_Greek_Racism.pdf

Germanics were at least noted for being more pure european in the sense that were less 'corrupted' by exotic elements.

[Anglojew]

There was no defined concept of 'whiteness' at that time, to begin with. However, there was an understanding of european vs asian.

Syrians were considered asiatic barbarians.

http://rbedrosian.com/Sex/Isaac_2006_Greek_Racism.pdf

Germanics were at least noted for being more pure european in the sense that were less 'corrupted' by exotic elements.

Germans were considered Barbarians whilst Syrians were respected as a civilisation. Don't forget that the the Greeks' named their continent after Europa (Greek Ευρώπη Eurṓpē) who was a Phoenician woman of high lineage.

Also, there was most certainly a concept of whiteness as depicted by the ancient Egyptians;

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Vanishing/drawing.jpg

Asiatics were from Asia minor and today's Near East rather than referring to East Asians.

[daedal1]

Germans were considered Barbarians whilst Syrians were respected as a civilisation. Don't forget that the the Greeks' named their continent after Europa (Greek Ευρώπη Eurṓpē) who was a Phoenician woman of high lineage.

Also, there was most certainly a concept of whiteness as depicted by the ancient Egyptians;

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Vanishing/drawing.jpg

Asiatics were from Asia minor and today's Near East rather than referring to East Asians.

Read the document. They were both called barbarians, however germanics were more respected in the sense that they were still fellow europeans, and technically even more european in the sense that they had less exotic elements. Anti-Semitism against Jews and Phoenicians was also rife. It was on an ethnic basis, rather than religious.

Yes, and those near easterners/anatolians are the original non-european foreign asiatics and they were chastized as such.

What does that picture have to do with whiteness? All it means is that there were different races.

[riverman]

People generally apply 'white' to designate CEU/central-european types.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ztxlQ68e19Q/TnC0Z0rW6bI/AAAAAAAAEHc/MQny_v-ygqQ/s1600/pca-caucasus.png

Even some other europeans could be borderline with respect to that.

Some people have described me as 'central european', seems a little vague to me tbh, I don't think we can just generalize looks like that, Europeans and levantines etc. are related peoples/

[daedal1]

Some people have described me as 'central european', seems a little vague to me tbh, I don't think we can just generalize looks like that, Europeans and levantines etc. are related peoples/

Levantines are more related to egyptians/bedouins than they are to most europeans, as you can see. So, it's vice versa, *some* europeans are related to Levantines. Finns are also related to uralic people, but not vice versa either.

[Anglojew]

Read the document. They were both called barbarians, however germanics were more respected in the sense that they were still fellow europeans, and technically even more european in the sense that they had less exotic elements. Anti-Semitism against Jews and Phoenicians was also rife. It was on an ethnic basis, rather than religious.

Yes, and those near easterners/anatolians are the original non-european foreign asiatics and they were chastized as such.

What does that picture have to do with whiteness? All it means is that there were different races.

This theory makes no sense. Greeks and Phoenicians had ancient cultural ties (including the introduction of the Alphabet to Greece from Phoenicia). The theory is wrong for many reasons but the biggest evidence of which is that Hellenism eg the Greek cultural, military and population expansion took place across the Near East to Persia and not in Germany.

[ariel]

Levantines are more related to egyptians/bedouins than they are to most europeans, as you can see. So, it's vice versa, *some* europeans are related to Levantines. Finns are also related to uralic people, but not vice versa either.

you just a troll who saying again and again the same bullshit.

[Sblast]

Should be posted under the sub-forum Judaism, not Israel.
(And who cares is they were white or Semitic?).

[daedal1]

you just a troll who saying again and again the same bullshit.

Nope, you're a troll who doesn't understand what you're talking about. That study did not conduct any surveys on cypriots, tuscans, etc. It uses the same exact data from the other study, which shows cypriots as being closer to the near eastern cluster and also egyptians+bedoins than they are to most europeans. Likewise, just because Iranians are Western Asians doesn't mean that they are closer to Germans than they are to Palestinians. Even Turks/Georgians (who are closer to c. euros than levantines are) are still genetically closer to Egyptians than they are to British/Irish.

[ariel]

nope, you're a troll who doesn't understand what you're talking about. That study did not conduct any surveys on cypriots, tuscans, etc. It uses the same exact data from the other study, which shows cypriots as being closer to the near eastern cluster and also egyptians+bedoins than they are to most europeans. Likewise, just because iranians are western asians doesn't mean that they are closer to germans than they are to palestinians. Even turks/georgians (who are closer to c. Euros than levantines are) are still genetically closer to egyptians than they are to british/irish.

this study are very serious.they used 1341 samples.how many samples used in your map?

In this study we analyze more than 500,000 genome-wide SNPs in 1,341 new samples from the Levant and compare them to samples from 48 populations worldwide

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1003316

In order to assess the population structure of Levantine populations more generally, an MDS (Figure 2) and a normalized principle component analysis (PCA) (Figure S2) plots with 48 additional Old World populations (Table S1) were built

[daedal1]

This theory makes no sense. Greeks and Phoenicians had ancient cultural ties (including the introduction of the Alphabet to Greece from Phoenicia). The theory is wrong for many reasons but the biggest evidence of which is that Hellenism eg the Greek cultural, military and population expansion took place across the Near East to Persia and not in Germany.

The Arabic numeral system is based on the Indian numeral system, the doesn't imply any sympathies there. That's because the Near East had more loot than the Germanic lands. It was a business decision. However, it was understood that they were europeans who ultimately had similar origins as other europeans.

http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.com/2013/03/thucydides-phoenicians-and-jews.html

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/phoenicians/a/PhoenicianTrait.htm

http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.com/2013/01/homer-phoenicians-and-jews.html

[ariel]

BTW YOU ARE ALIAR CYPRIOTS NOT PURE LEVANTINES AND MIXED WITH ARABS AND EGYPTIANS.

THE PUREST LEVANTINES ARE SYRIAN ALAWITES AND THEY LOOK NOTHING LIKE EGYPTIANS OR BEDOUINS

http://imageshack.us/a/img138/7793/b055.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img194/7749/yazbek.png


http://imageshack.us/a/img534/2711/basilassad.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img856/9499/maheralassad.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img138/6789/120131033243bashar6hori.jpg

[daedal1]

this study are very serious.they used 1341 samples.how many samples used in your map?

In this study we analyze more than 500,000 genome-wide SNPs in 1,341 new samples from the Levant and compare them to samples from 48 populations worldwide

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1003316

In order to assess the population structure of Levantine populations more generally, an MDS (Figure 2) and a normalized principle component analysis (PCA) (Figure S2) plots with 48 additional Old World populations (Table S1) were built

That study uses original samples of lebanese, NOT CYPRIOTS, TUSCANS, etc. Both studies use the same sources for data regarding cypriots, etc. All this study shows is that lebanese christians are intermediate BETWEEN cypriots and druze, while lebanese/syrian muslims are between druze and bedouins. If you segregated the lebanese cluster into lebanese christians and muslims, cypriots would still place the EXACT same as they do on the map. You do realize that the study you constantly reference doesn't use ANY original data on palestinians, bedouins, etc. right? It's all based on the SAME HGDP data.

[daedal1]

BTW YOU ARE ALIAR CYPRIOTS NOT PURE LEVANTINES AND MIXED WITH ARABS AND EGYPTIANS.

THE PUREST LEVANTINES ARE SYRIAN ALAWITES AND THEY LOOK NOTHING LIKE EGYPTIANS OR BEDOUINS



Cypriots are mixed with arabs and egyptians? Now this is hilarious. You are clearly 100% trolling here. Where did the arab/egyptian blood in cypriots come from? Cypriots are even closer to europeans (and therefore have less arab blood) than lebanese christians are according to that study. Cyprus was never even arabized, it was hellenized, unlike alawis who identify as 'arabs' and always have.

[ariel]

That study uses original samples of lebanese, NOT CYPRIOTS, TUSCANS, etc. Both studies use the same sources for data regarding cypriots, etc. All this study shows is that lebanese christians are intermediate BETWEEN cypriots and druze, while lebanese/syrian muslims are between druze and bedouins. If you segregated the lebanese cluster into lebanese christians and muslims, cypriots would still place the EXACT same as they do on the map. You do realize that the study you constantly reference doesn't use ANY original data on palestinians, bedouins, etc. right? It's all based on the SAME HGDP data.


In this study we analyze more than 500,000 genome-wide SNPs in 1,341 new samples from the Levant and compare them to samples from 48 populations worldwide

all Jews (Sephardi and Ashkenazi) cluster in one branch; Druze from Mount Lebanon and Druze from Mount Carmel are depicted on a private branch; and Lebanese Christians form a private branch with the Christian populations of Armenia and Cyprus placing the Lebanese Muslims as an outer group. The predominantly Muslim populations of Syrians, Palestinians and Jordanians cluster on branches with other Muslim populations as distant as Morocco and Yemen

:rolleyes:

[daedal1]

In this study we analyze more than 500,000 genome-wide SNPs in 1,341 new samples from the Levant and compare them to samples from 48 populations worldwide

:rolleyes:

Those are LEBANESE samples from their original LEBANESE data, NOT palestinians or anything else. They use HGDP data for palestinians, etc, which is the same as the map.

[ariel]

Cypriots are mixed with arabs and egyptians? Now this is hilarious. You are clearly 100% trolling here. Where did the arab/egyptian blood in cypriots come from? Cypriots are even closer to europeans (and therefore have less arab blood) than lebanese christians are according to that study. Cyprus was never even arabized, it was hellenized, unlike alawis who identify as 'arabs' and always have.

LOL

Cyprus was ruled by Assyria for a century starting in 708 BC, before a brief spell under Egyptian rule and eventually Persian rule in 545 BC.[42] The Cypriots, led by Onesilus, king of Salamis, joined their fellow Greeks in the Ionian cities during the unsuccessful Ionian Revolt in 499 BC against the Achaemenid Empire. The revolt was suppressed, but Cyprus managed to maintain a high degree of autonomy and remained oriented towards the Greek world.[42]

The island was conquered by Alexander the Great in 333 BC. Following his death and the subsequent division of his empire between his successors, Cyprus became part of the Hellenistic empire of Ptolemaic Egypt. It was during this period that the island was fully Hellenized. In 58 BC Cyprus was annexed by the Roman Republic.[42]


When the Roman Empire was divided into Eastern and Western parts in 395, Cyprus became part of the East Roman, or Byzantine Empire, and would remain part of it until the Crusades some 800 years later. Under Byzantine rule, the Greek orientation that had been prominent since antiquity developed the strong Hellenistic-Christian character that continues to be a hallmark of the Greek Cypriot community.[42]

Beginning in 649, Cyprus suffered from devastating raids launched by Arab armies from the Levant, which continued for the next 300 years.[42] Many were quick piratical raids, but others were large-scale attacks in which many Cypriots were slaughtered and great wealth carried off or destroyed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus

btw arabized mean nothing, language have nothing to do with genetic

[ariel]

Those are LEBANESE samples from their original LEBANESE data, NOT palestinians or anything else. They use HGDP data for palestinians, etc, which is the same as the map.

1,341 new samples from the Levant

they tested also ashkenazi and sephardic jews :picard2:

[ariel]

do you said cypriots not have arab admix?



ADMIXTURE identifies at K = 10 an ancestral component (light green) with a geographically restricted distribution representing ~50% of the individual component in Ethiopians, Yemenis, Saudis, and Bedouins, decreasing towards the Levant, with higher frequency (~25%) in Syrians, Jordanians, and Palestinians, compared with other Levantines (4%–20%). The geographical distribution pattern of this component (Figure 4A, 4B) correlates with the pattern of the Islamic expansion, but its presence in Lebanese Christians, Sephardi and Ashkenazi Jews, Cypriots and Armenians might suggest that its spread to the Levant could also represent an earlier event

[daedal1]

1,341 new samples from the Levant

they tested also ashkenazi and sephardic jews :picard2:

And Lebanon/Syria was sacked by arabs even harder, so? The Syrian Alawis even claim to be descendants of an arab tribe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalbiyya

They didn't test cypriots, palestinians, etc.

"In this study we analyze newly-generated genome-wide data from Lebanon IN ADDITION to individuals from 48 published global populations [7], [9]. "

The Jewish Samples come from Behar's study:

Behar DM, Yunusbayev B, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Rosset S, et al. (2010) The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people. Nature 466: 238–242. doi:

And the other samples are based on HGDP data:

Li JZ, Absher DM, Tang H, Southwick AM, Casto AM, et al. (2008) Worldwide human relationships inferred from genome-wide patterns of variation. Science 319: doi:10.1371/journal.pgen.10013731100–1104.

[ariel]

were selected through a stratified random sampling taking into consideration the distribution of the religious groups in Lebanon and merged with 994 samples from literature representing 48 populations

[Equilibrium]

Relevant: ;)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?50755-Members-of-the-Apricity-How-Do-You-Imagine-Them&p=1899052#post1899052

[ariel]

And you still a liar and claimed who cypriots have no arab admix...you are troll

[ariel]

Relevant: ;)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?50755-Members-of-the-Apricity-How-Do-You-Imagine-Them&p=1899052#post1899052

NOT FUNNY BRO

[daedal1]

do you said cypriots not have arab admix?



ADMIXTURE identifies at K = 10 an ancestral component (light green) with a geographically restricted distribution representing ~50% of the individual component in Ethiopians, Yemenis, Saudis, and Bedouins, decreasing towards the Levant, with higher frequency (~25%) in Syrians, Jordanians, and Palestinians, compared with other Levantines (4%–20%). The geographical distribution pattern of this component (Figure 4A, 4B) correlates with the pattern of the Islamic expansion, but its presence in Lebanese Christians, Sephardi and Ashkenazi Jews, Cypriots and Armenians might suggest that its spread to the Levant could also represent an earlier event

I believe that's 'SW Asian', and Armenians also have some, which means that Assyrians have more (as Assyrians are pretty much the same as Armenians), if anything, but Assyrians have 0% Arab Blood as they are 0% SSA, while Arabs have some SSA, so that component doesn't even imply arab admixture.

[ariel]

i believe that's 'sw asian', and armenians also have some, which means that assyrians have more (as assyrians are pretty much the same as armenians), if anything, but assyrians have 0% arab blood as they are 0% ssa, while arabs have some ssa, so that component doesn't even imply arab admixture.

lol

trollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[daedal1]

were selected through a stratified random sampling taking into consideration the distribution of the religious groups in Lebanon and merged with 994 samples from literature representing 48 populations

Do you comprehend english?

" MERGED with 994 samples from literature representing 48 populations"

They merged the samples they took from lebanese of different sects and they merged it with external data from here:

"They didn't test cypriots, palestinians, etc.

"In this study we analyze newly-generated genome-wide data from Lebanon IN ADDITION to individuals from 48 published global populations [7], [9]. "

The Jewish Samples come from Behar's study:

Behar DM, Yunusbayev B, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Rosset S, et al. (2010) The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people. Nature 466: 238–242. doi:

And the other samples are based on HGDP data:

Li JZ, Absher DM, Tang H, Southwick AM, Casto AM, et al. (2008) Worldwide human relationships inferred from genome-wide patterns of variation. Science 319: doi:10.1371/journal.pgen.10013731100–1104."


And these sources are the same ones that the map uses too.

[daedal1]

lol

trollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Look it up. Assyrians are almost genetically the same as Armenians, and they have 0% SSA, while they still have a sw asian component. On the other hand, arabs/levantines, etc. have some, hence, assyrians don't have arab admix, etc.

[ariel]

Do you comprehend english?

" MERGED with 994 samples from literature representing 48 populations"

They merged the samples they took from lebanese of different sects and they merged it with external data from here:

"They didn't test cypriots, palestinians, etc.

"In this study we analyze newly-generated genome-wide data from Lebanon IN ADDITION to individuals from 48 published global populations [7], [9]. "

The Jewish Samples come from Behar's study:

Behar DM, Yunusbayev B, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Rosset S, et al. (2010) The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people. Nature 466: 238–242. doi:

And the other samples are based on HGDP data:

Li JZ, Absher DM, Tang H, Southwick AM, Casto AM, et al. (2008) Worldwide human relationships inferred from genome-wide patterns of variation. Science 319: doi:10.1371/journal.pgen.10013731100–1104."


And these sources are the same ones that the map uses too.

you calimed who cypriots not have arab admix and this a lie...this mean nothing this study is serious. you can deny what who you want , its only your own problem.

[StonyArabia]

Cyprus was part of the Rashidun Caliphate for a long time.

[Prince Carlo]

Look it up. Assyrians are almost genetically the same as Armenians, and they have 0% SSA, while they still have a sw asian component. On the other hand, arabs/levantines, etc. have some, hence, assyrians don't have arab admix, etc.

Arabic is not the same as SW Asian since the latter is filled with caucasus like alleles. Saudis are like 40% Caucasus if I remember well.

[ariel]

look it up. Assyrians are almost genetically the same as armenians, and they have 0% ssa, while they still have a sw asian component. On the other hand, arabs/levantines, etc. Have some, hence, assyrians don't have arab admix, etc.

armenians from anatolia are not the same as the armenians in armenia. Armenians from anatolia are native anatolians and they related to assyrians.they probably just armenian speaking native population.

[daedal1]

Arabic is not the same as SW Asian since the latter is filled with caucasus like alleles. Saudis are like 40% Caucasus if I remember well.

Still, Assyrians weren't measured as a reference in this study. A lot of people were shocked to see that an actual semitic group with SouthWest Asian, still didn't score SSA, at the same time. This element doesn't necessarily have to be 'arabic', it could be some type of proto-semitic common ancestry, just like with southwest asian, which both assyrians and saudis, etc. carry.

[StonyArabia]

Arabic is not the same as SW Asian since the latter is filled with caucasus like alleles. Saudis are like 40% Caucasus if I remember well.

Arab/SouthWest Asian are the same component they peak in the following populations: Saudis, Yemenite Jews, Bedouins, and Southern Iraqis. The SouthWest Asian is combination of alleles of Med+Caucasus with East African affinity.

[ariel]

Still, Assyrians weren't measured as a reference in this study. A lot of people were shocked to see that an actual semitic group with SouthWest Asian, still didn't score SSA, at the same time. This element doesn't necessarily have to be 'arabic', it could be some type of proto-semitic common ancestry, just like with southwest asian, which both assyrians and saudis, etc. carry.

bullshit

[riverman]

There is no real evidence the Jews were slaves in Egypt.

There isn't evidence against it, either. Egypt had many peoples coming and going, even the kingship varied in ethnicity at different times.

[StonyArabia]

According to Dinekes Assyrians are just Aramaized Armenians. However this is not true as Assyrians seem genetically close to Iraqi Jews more than anything. Assyrians are not the same Armenians, however there was a lot of intermarriage with Assyrians and Armenians especially the Nestorians, but the Chaldean/Syriac Assyrians are pretty much the same as Iraqi Jews genetically speaking. So you are generalizing about the Assyrians and so is Dinekes.

[daedal1]

you calimed who cypriots not have arab admix and this a lie...this mean nothing this study is serious. you can deny what who you want , its only your own problem.

You lied and claimed that the study took samples from palestinians, etc. They did not, they only took lebanese samples, this study doesn't change the map at all, because they otherwise took data from the same exact sources, cypriots are still closer to egyptians and bedouins than they are to most europeans. All it means is that the lebanese would be segregated into christians and muslims on the map and that christians would be shown as intermediate between cypriots and druze, which means that they're even closer to egyptians and bedouins too. As far as cypriots having arab admix, this hasn't been proven by you. Assyrians weren't measured here, but they score sw asian, but no SSA, unlike arabs, and hence, don't have arab admix.

[daedal1]

Cyprus was part of the Rashidun Caliphate for a long time.

Sure, and Greeks have Central Asian Turkic ancestry, right?

[daedal1]

bullshit

Then explain the assyrians having sw asian, but not SSA.

[StonyArabia]

Sure, and Greeks have Central Asian Turkic ancestry, right?

No, because the Turks were not full Central Asian anyways as they moved more West their Turanid elements weakened and weakened. So this why you don't see it in Greeks but some surely do. The same case because the "Arabians" who conquered Cyprus probably were mixed and mixed. Cypriots show strong affinity toward Egyptians and Bedouins which you yourself said.

[ariel]

You lied and claimed that the study took samples from palestinians, etc. They did not, they only took lebanese samples, this study doesn't change the map at all, because they otherwise took data from the same exact sources, cypriots are still closer to egyptians and bedouins than they are to most europeans. All it means is that the lebanese would be segregated into christians and muslims on the map and that christians would be shown as intermediate between cypriots and druze, which means that they're even closer to egyptians and bedouins too. As far as cypriots having arab admix, this hasn't been proven by you. Assyrians weren't measured here, but they score sw asian, but no SSA, unlike arabs, and hence, don't have arab admix.

cypriots have arab admix and its proved.you are the liar

[StonyArabia]

Then explain the assyrians having sw asian, but not SSA.

Assyrians don't have SSA because they don't neighbour them and they were not ruled by the Axumites unlike the Arabians. SouthWest Asian itself however carries East African alleles. If you know history the Axumites invaded Arabia to spread Christianity.

[ariel]

No, because the Turks were not full Central Asian anyways as they moved more West their Turanid elements weakened and weakened. So this why you don't see it in Greeks but some surely do. The same case because the "Arabians" who conquered Cyprus probably were mixed and mixed. Cypriots show strong affinity toward Egyptians and Bedouins which you yourself said.

he just a troll

[daedal1]

According to Dinekes Assyrians are just Aramaized Armenians. However this is not true as Assyrians seem genetically close to Iraqi Jews more than anything. Assyrians are not the same Armenians, however there was a lot of intermarriage with Assyrians and Armenians especially the Nestorians, but the Chaldean/Syriac Assyrians are pretty much the same as Iraqi Jews genetically speaking. So you are generalizing about the Assyrians and so is Dinekes.

Elias is correct on one point. A small amount of SSA can cause a large shift on a pca plot. So, in that sense, it doesn't really matter. The original fully 'west asian/southwest asian' semites probably would clustered nearer to armenians/assyrians than to bedouins, for example. Northwest, Northeast and Kartvelian Caucasians aren't that different from each other, either.

[ariel]

Elias is correct on one point. A small amount of SSA can cause a large shift on a pca plot. So, in that sense, it doesn't really matter. The original fully 'west asian/southwest asian' semites probably would clustered nearer to armenians/assyrians than to bedouins, for example. Northwest, Northeast and Kartvelian Caucasians aren't that different from each other, either.

levantine component is levantine component ,:)

The estimated time of divergence between the Levantine component and other Middle Easterners overlaps with evidence from archeological findings of a major cultural development in the Levant during the early Epipaleolithic period (23,000-14,500 y.a) [21]. The period of climatic warming after the Last Glacial Maximum (~26,000-19,900 y.a) in the Levant was characterized by the spread of the microlithic technologies and the appearance of highly mobile populations between the Sinai Peninsula and southern Turkey. This Early Epipaleolithic phase formed a cultural continuity with the last Epipaleolithic phase, immediately preceding the appearance of the Natufian culture and the development of sedentism [22]. Our time estimate of divergence between the Levantine and European components (~15,900-9,100 y.a) overlaps with the transition to agriculture in the Levant ~11,000 y.a but is also slightly earlier than the proposed expansion to Europe starting at ~9,000 y.a. [23]–[25]. In agreement with this, a recent study of complete mtDNA sequences also proposed earlier expansion dates (19,000-12,000 y.a) of certain female lineages from the Near East to Europe [26]. These results suggest that population migration to Europe from the Near East could have started after the LGM warming and continued until the Neolithic. In addition, these results show that the modern European genetic component is more recent than would be expected from a component that developed from the initial peopling of Europe in the Upper Paleolithic ~40,000 y.a.[/COLOR]

[daedal1]

No, because the Turks were not full Central Asian anyways as they moved more West their Turanid elements weakened and weakened. So this why you don't see it in Greeks but some surely do. The same case because the "Arabians" who conquered Cyprus probably were mixed and mixed. Cypriots show strong affinity toward Egyptians and Bedouins which you yourself said.

This is all speculation. There is no evidence for it. I'm sure Dienekes would love to hear what you're saying. I also said that Georgians are closer to Egyptians than they are to English/Irish, even though Georgians score zero for 'arabian' and they were also sampled in this study.

[StonyArabia]

Elias is correct on one point. A small amount of SSA can cause a large shift on a pca plot. So, in that sense, it doesn't really matter. The original fully 'west asian/southwest asian' semites probably would clustered nearer to armenians/assyrians than to bedouins, for example. Northwest, Northeast and Kartvelian Caucasians aren't that different from each other, either.


LOL are you Assyrian? No Elias often talks out of his ass. Semites did not originate in the Caucasus or Anatolia. They could have originated in the Levant, but many believe they originated in the Arabian Desert. No because an Assyrian with minor SSA would not cluster with Yemenite Jews or Bedouins. SouthWest Asian component already has SSA/East African alleles which means Assyrians have it.

[daedal1]

levantine component is levantine component ,:)



And Levantines, even cypriots, the levantines closest to europeans, out of all levantines, are still closer to egyptians and bedouins than they are to most europeans.
The same exact data was used here

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ztxlQ68e19Q/TnC0Z0rW6bI/AAAAAAAAEHc/MQny_v-ygqQ/s1600/pca-caucasus.png

All it means is that the levantine component is related to west asians, iranians/armenians are also west asians, they aren't closer to germans than they are to palestinians.

[ariel]

LOL are you Assyrian? No Elias often talks out of his ass. Semites did not originate in the Caucasus or Anatolia. They could have originated in the Levant, but many believe they originated in the Arabian Desert. No because an Assyrian with minor SSA would not cluster with Yemenite Jews or Bedouins. SouthWest Asian component already has SSA/East African alleles which means Assyrians have it.

semitic languages originated in the levant but not semite people who never existed.

[daedal1]

LOL are you Assyrian? No Elias often talks out of his ass. Semites did not originate in the Caucasus or Anatolia. They could have originated in the Levant, but many believe they originated in the Arabian Desert. No because an Assyrian with minor SSA would not cluster with Yemenite Jews or Bedouins. SouthWest Asian component already has SSA/East African alleles which means Assyrians have it.

You do realize that the southern half of syria, along with the bulk of jordan and some western parts of iraq are geographically part of 'arabia', right? It could have originated from 'arabia' AND the 'levant', but that doesn't mean the original arabian proto-semites (if that is the case) were SSA-admixed. Assyrians aren't, which would mean that the original proto-semites/southwest asians, whatever they were like, would have been closer to armenians/assyrians than to modern bedouins.

[Behrouz]

semitic languages originated in the levant but not semite people who never existed.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[Loki]

Why? Because of some Biblical descriptions. Also, modern Jews are white (for the most part). So why wouldn't their ancestors have been white?

[StonyArabia]

You do realize that the southern half of syria, along with the bulk of jordan and some western parts of iraq are geographically part of 'arabia', right? It could have originated from 'arabia' AND the 'levant'

Yes I know that, but they are referring to the Levant mostly it's Northern Syria/Lebanon and regions bordering or are inside Turkey.


but that doesn't mean the original arabian proto-semites (if that is the case) were SSA-admixed. Assyrians aren't, which would mean that the original proto-semites/southwest asians, whatever they were like, would have been closer to armenians/assyrians than to modern bedouins.

Well the fact is the SouthWest Asian component has SSA elements in it and this is the truth. The proto-Semites if they existed were probably indeed had minor SSA component and especially high East African affinity. Armenians/Assyrians and the case of the latter is probably a Semitized population.

[Loki]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ztxlQ68e19Q/TnC0Z0rW6bI/AAAAAAAAEHc/MQny_v-ygqQ/s1600/pca-caucasus.png



Most of these on the map are white.

[ariel]

What the fuck are you talking about?

have no semitic race and this proved by genetic and anthropology.


assyrians

http://imageshack.us/a/img706/748/16wed.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img819/8180/23121002.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img20/6638/20090525pfingstenbalias.jpg


arabs-muslim palestnians


http://imageshack.us/a/img585/8282/20005118881725449609611.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img825/6397/090103palestineramallah.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img14/2990/worpalestinianprotest09.jpg


levantines-maronites christians

http://imageshack.us/a/img17/8697/qw6a.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img28/8397/t999.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img818/4281/s5bf.jpg

where is yours semitic race?

[daedal1]

Yes I know that, but they are referring to the Levant mostly it's Northern Syria/Lebanon and regions bordering or are inside Turkey.



Well the fact is the SouthWest Asian component has SSA elements in it and this is the truth. The proto-Semites if they existed were probably indeed had minor SSA component and especially high East African affinity. Armenians/Assyrians and the case of the latter is probably a Semitized population.

It doesn't matter that much whether it's northern syria or southern syria ('arabia'), as the original population was likely a non-SSA admixed west asian population closer to other west asians.
Then why do Assyrians score 0% SSA? There has never been a test that has shown Assyrians to have some SSA, ever. Sometimes Assyrians score Far-East Asian (probably from the mongols), but never SSA.

[Prince Carlo]

You do realize that the southern half of syria, along with the bulk of jordan and some western parts of iraq are geographically part of 'arabia', right? It could have originated from 'arabia' AND the 'levant', but that doesn't mean the original arabian proto-semites (if that is the case) were SSA-admixed. Assyrians aren't, which would mean that the original proto-semites/southwest asians, whatever they were like, would have been closer to armenians/assyrians than to modern bedouins.

You do realize that the original Assyrians heavily mixed with Caucasus like people who once made up the bulk of iraqi population? And Georgians/Chechens score some SW Asian on most of these calculators, but lack the arabian like admixture.

[Behrouz]

Why? Because of some Biblical descriptions. Also, modern Jews are white (for the most part). So why wouldn't their ancestors have been white?

Only the ones with european origin appear to be 'white'.

[Loki]

Only the ones with european origin appear to be 'white'.

Why were ancient Israelites described as white-looking in the Bible then?

[daedal1]

Most of these on the map are white.

Even the so-called 'churkas'?

They have nothing to do with europeans culturally, ethnically, linguistically, etc. The only link is to southern caucasians, who were influenced by christianity, which isn't even a fully european religion, especially the byzantine variant.

[daedal1]

You do realize that the original Assyrians heavily mixed with Caucasus like people who once made up the bulk of iraqi population? And Georgians/Chechens score some SW Asian on most of these calculators, but lack the arabian like admixture.

We don't know for sure until assyrians are tested, but even if assyrians have none, it doesn't imply that the arabian admixture signifies admixture relating to the original semites, as the original southwest asians, didn't have SSA. Case in point, the assyrians. Yes, and Caucasus like people could have been closer to the original semites than modern bedouins, if this is the case. Anatolia was inhabited by NW Caucasian like people, NE Caucasians have connections to Mesopotamia, etc. Still, Turks, Georgians, Armenians, etc. aren't really that far from each other, genetically. Northern Caucasians just have an additional more modern Northern European input, but still they aren't that far either.

[daedal1]

Why were ancient Israelites described as white-looking in the Bible then?

Even the original Arabs described themselves as 'white' in Islamic religious scriptures.

[Loki]

Even the original Arabs described themselves as 'white' in Islamic religious scriptures.

That's because they were white.

[Loki]

Even the so-called 'churkas'?


Ever seen what a Chechen look like? Probably more white than you.

[Benacer]

Even the original Arabs described themselves as 'white' in Islamic religious scriptures.

Indeed, perceptions are relative, we shouldn't take them on contemporary terms. It is necessary to immerse oneself in the culture of the time to truly understand the meaning behind the records they've left.

[Transhumanist]

There was no defined concept of 'whiteness' at that time, to begin with. However, there was an understanding of european vs asian.

Syrians were considered asiatic barbarians.

http://rbedrosian.com/Sex/Isaac_2006_Greek_Racism.pdf

Germanics were at least noted for being more pure european in the sense that were less 'corrupted' by exotic elements.

The Greeks often confused the terms Syria and Assyria. Is the above bit referring to Levantine Syrians, or Mesopotamian Assyrians? If it is the latter, then it is far removed from the suggestions of kinship ties between Greeks and Assyrians, made by the Greeks themselves:

Source: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu

Herodotus, The Histories
A. D. Godley, Ed.

1.7


Now the sovereign power that belonged to the descendants of Heracles fell to the family of Croesus, called the Mermnadae, in the following way. *Candaules, whom the Greeks call Myrsilus, was the ruler of Sardis; he was descended from Alcaeus, son of Heracles; Agron son of Ninus, son of Belus, son of Alcaeus, was the first Heraclid king of Sardis and Candaules son of Myrsus was the last. *The kings of this country before Agron were descendants of Lydus, son of Atys, from whom this whole Lydian district got its name; before that it was called the land of the Meii. *The Heraclidae, descendants of Heracles and a female slave of Iardanus, received the sovereignty from these and held it, because of an oracle; and they ruled for twenty-two generations, or five hundred and five years, son succeeding father, down to Candaules son of Myrsus.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: http://www.maicar.com/GML/HERACLIDES.html


Agron 2. Agron 2 is said to be the first of the HERACLIDES to become king of Sardes (Lydia) (see also Croesus). He is son of Ninus, the Assyrian who founded Nineveh. Ninus was son of Belus 3, son of Alcaeus 6, son of Heracles 1 and Omphale (Hdt.1.7).

Belus 3. Son of Alcaeus 6, son of Heracles 1 & Omphale. Belus 3, who is counted among the HERACLIDES, is also called father of Ninus, the founder of Nineveh and husband of Semiramis (see also Croesus) (Hdt.1.7).

Ninus. Son of Belus 3. Father of Agron 2. King of Assyria and founder of Nineveh. He was murdered by his wife Semiramis, founder and Queen of Babylonia (see also Croesus) (Dio.2.7.1; Hdt.1.7; Hyg.Fab.240; Ov.Met.4.88;

[daedal1]

Ever seen what a Chechen look like? Probably more white than you.

You mean these guys?

http://images.bwbx.io/cms/2013-04-19/0419-boston-bombers-630x420.jpg

[Loki]

You mean these guys?

http://images.bwbx.io/cms/2013-04-19/0419-boston-bombers-630x420.jpg

This:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/22/article-2329004-19EE138D000005DC-974_634x587.jpg

Looks white to me.

[Elsa]

You mean these guys?

http://images.bwbx.io/cms/2013-04-19/0419-boston-bombers-630x420.jpg

They're only half Chechen.

[daedal1]

They're only half Chechen.

The other half was Dagestani. Still Northern Caucasian. Shouldn't make that much of a difference.

[ariel]

if you want to know how the ancient israelite look like


http://imageshack.us/a/img28/107/dddddl4c.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img19/1116/1ree.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img821/391/f1rc.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img818/1860/m5yv.jpg

[gregorius]

Deadel is butthurt assyrian :D

[Smeagol]

Ancient Jews probably looked something like this. http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?93638-The-Iraqi-Jews

[ariel]

ancient jews probably looked something like this. http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?93638-the-iraqi-jews

iraqi jews are levantine-assyrian mix not pure levanines

[ariel]

http://imageshack.us/a/img844/3637/vhcn.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img96/7585/ljjn.jpg

[Behrouz]

http://imageshack.us/a/img844/3637/vhcn.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img96/7585/ljjn.jpg

My friend, what group of jews do these kids belong to?
http://fortinidentitario.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/1292805378612.jpg

[ariel]

My friend, what group of jews do these kids belong to?
http://fortinidentitario.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/1292805378612.jpg

these people in your pics are ashkenazi

[StonyArabia]

That's because they were white.

No lol.

[Philo]

What's interesting about the Old Testament, is that its apparently the only source that mentions ancient Hebrews as "yoked" by Pharoh. Also, there are the journals left behind of the pyramid builders which suggests that the pyramids were actually built by a very dedicated skilled labor force of local origin that could only be "in on it" if they believed here in Pharoh's cause.

Historical accuracies or inaccuracies aside, ancient Hebrews would have looked typical to where they were at the time. Things however changed after the diaspora.
Yep. The exosdus story is just a story.

[Philo]

Jew:
http://www.news1.co.il/uploadimages/NEWS1-629162013530732.jpg
Persian:
http://www.jewishjournal.com/images/bloggers_auto/blog_Reza_Farahan_headshot_bravo_31312-584.jpg

[Behrouz]

Jew:
http://www.news1.co.il/uploadimages/NEWS1-629162013530732.jpg
Persian:
http://www.jewishjournal.com/images/bloggers_auto/blog_Reza_Farahan_headshot_bravo_31312-584.jpg


Why do you post European-looking Jews (who are a minority) to represent typical Jewish look? You're well aware that the vast majority of Ashkenazi genome comes from european converts and rape. Are you ashamed of your Levantine ancestry my friend?


Original Levantine Jew
http://www.dnaarab.com/imgcache/2/626alsh3er.jpg

Ashkenazi 'fake' jew
http://i4.minus.com/iboLOoRaCiSxUG.png





Jewish people are a joke
http://theuglytruth.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/3jews.jpg?w=620,

[Benacer]

Jew:
http://www.news1.co.il/uploadimages/NEWS1-629162013530732.jpg


Is he an actor? :icon_ask: He looks somewhat familiar.

[ariel]

why do you post european-looking jews (who are a minority) to represent typical jewish look? You're well aware that the vast majority of ashkenazi genome comes from european converts and rape. Are you ashamed of your levantine ancestry my friend?


Original levantine jew
http://www.dnaarab.com/imgcache/2/626alsh3er.jpg

ashkenazi 'fake' jew
http://i4.minus.com/ibolooracisxug.png





jewish people are a joke
http://theuglytruth.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/3jews.jpg?w=620,

lol
yemenite jews are not levantines but arabian converteds.

[daedal1]

Why do you post European-looking Jews (who are a minority) to represent typical Jewish look? You're well aware that the vast majority of Ashkenazi genome comes from european converts and rape. Are you ashamed of your Levantine ancestry my friend?


Original Levantine Jew
http://www.dnaarab.com/imgcache/2/626alsh3er.jpg

Ashkenazi 'fake' jew
http://i4.minus.com/iboLOoRaCiSxUG.png





Jewish people are a joke
http://theuglytruth.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/3jews.jpg?w=620,

That's a yemeni jew. Even Iraqi jews look like this:

http://www.dangoor.com/72p13

And now that you have said 'levantine', prepare to have ariel dump this thread with his cherry-picked photos into oblivion. At best, even the levantines closest to europeans are still generally swarthy and brownish. See Cypriots

http://files.prokerala.com/news/photos/imgs/800/nicosia-march-26-2013-ordinary-cypriots-step-in-54700.jpg

ariel doesn't like the example of cypriots, as he isn't able to cherrypick and blame all the darker individuals in crowds on 'arabs', but that's the reality of what levantines look like at their best. Alawites are self-proclaimed arabs and descendants of the kalbiyya arab tribe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalbiyya

Not any different from other muslim arabs in the region who have similar arabian origins.

[ariel]

That's a yemeni jew. Even Iraqi jews look like this:

http://www.dangoor.com/72p13

And now that you have said 'levantine', prepare to have ariel dump this thread with his cherry-picked photos into oblivion. At best, even the levantines closest to europeans are still generally swarthy and brownish. See Cypriots

http://files.prokerala.com/news/photos/imgs/800/nicosia-march-26-2013-ordinary-cypriots-step-in-54700.jpg

ariel doesn't like the example of cypriots, as he isn't able to cherrypick and blame all the darker individuals in crowds on 'arabs', but that's the reality of what levantines look like at their best. Alawites are self-proclaimed arabs and descendants of the kalbiyya arab tribe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalbiyya

Not any different from other muslim arabs in the region who have similar arabian origins.

you are troll and everybody say it a well.get a life man.btw iraqi jews not pure levantines but assyrian levantine mix.

[daedal1]

you are troll and everybody say it a well.get a life man.btw iraqi jews not pure levantines but assyrian levantine mix.

You are a troll. The reality is that even the levantines closest to europe (cypriots) are still closer to egyptians and bedouins than they are to most europeans. Any study, including that study (which uses the same exact data r.e. cypriots, tuscans, ashkenazis) that you repeatedly mention, also confirms that.

here's behar's data (which that study also uses as a source, as does the map)

https://lh3.ggpht.com/_Ish7688voT0/TA_tjcMrcnI/AAAAAAAACb0/iMP8YJM3D8E/s1600/pca.jpg

Same Results

Just because iranians, armenians, etc. are 'west asians' doesn't mean that they are closer to germans than they are to palestinians. That's the reality.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

You don't need to look at autosomals which don't do shit to look at ancient populations anyway. Semites are the E groups, and the jews are from J haplotype, not E. Js are originally white people.

So like every thread like this. Is [fill in the blank white]? NO. WAS [fill in the blank] white? YES. We used to know it through history but camelriders, east asians and afrocentrists did all they could to deny it. Now we have the genetics, that's the end of it.

[ariel]

about the alawites

In the 19th century and early 20th century, some Western scholars believed Alawites were descended from ancient Middle Eastern peoples such as Canaanites and Hittites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites

do you have any genetic proof who alawites are bedouins?

[daedal1]

about the alawites

In the 19th century and early 20th century, some Western scholars believed Alawites were descended from ancient Middle Eastern peoples such as Canaanites and Hittites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites

do you have any genetic proof who alawites are bedouins?

Some claimed that the assyrians were 'indo-european persians', that doesn't make it so.

http://books.google.com/books?id=jfylyRawl8EC&pg=PA286&lpg=PA286&dq=%22ernst+renan%22+assyrians+indo-europeans&source=bl&ots=ZpjxyAKtZT&sig=1e9wbK8f7NSEydZuljmOtuivZZU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yWA8Uu3DGMjc4APtjICQBA&ved=0CCgQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%22ernst%20renan%22%20assyrians%20indo-europeans&f=false

Syrian/Leb Christians have never traditionally claimed arabian origins.

On the other hand, the Alawis have always claimed to be arabs.

Specifically, they claim to be from the Kalbiyya tribe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalbiyya

This is probably related to the 'Kalb' tribe.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Map_of_Arabia_600_AD.svg/550px-Map_of_Arabia_600_AD.svg.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xG53LmLKgQI/TlG88lKLRjI/AAAAAAAAAfU/XKt17L8-YIg/s1600/Arab+Tribes.JPG

[ariel]

Some claimed that the assyrians were 'indo-european persians', that doesn't make it so.

http://books.google.com/books?id=jfylyRawl8EC&pg=PA286&lpg=PA286&dq=%22ernst+renan%22+assyrians+indo-europeans&source=bl&ots=ZpjxyAKtZT&sig=1e9wbK8f7NSEydZuljmOtuivZZU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yWA8Uu3DGMjc4APtjICQBA&ved=0CCgQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%22ernst%20renan%22%20assyrians%20indo-europeans&f=false

Syrian/Leb Christians have never traditionally claimed arabian origins.

On the other hand, the Alawis have always claimed to be arabs.

Specifically, they claim to be from the Kalbiyya tribe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalbiyya

This is probably related to the 'Kalb' tribe.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Map_of_Arabia_600_AD.svg/550px-Map_of_Arabia_600_AD.svg.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xG53LmLKgQI/TlG88lKLRjI/AAAAAAAAAfU/XKt17L8-YIg/s1600/Arab+Tribes.JPG

im talking about genetic and not about "claiming", they claiming to be shia, but they just alawites. this for political reasons of course.

[Behrouz]

You don't need to look at autosomals which don't do shit to look at ancient populations anyway. Semites are the E groups, and the jews are from J haplotype, not E. Js are originally white people.

Where did you get this? Arabs have more J than Jews (who are a semitic people too).

[daedal1]

im talking about genetic and not about "claiming", they claiming to be shia, but they just alawites. this for political reasons of course.

There have been no genetic studies on the Alawis, but the Alawis have always claimed to be of the kalbiyya tribe.

And the Kalb tribe did in fact migrate from Yemen to Syria:

http://books.google.com/books?id=kyEYAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=%22banu+kalb%22+syria&source=bl&ots=4-rv1-9KhJ&sig=2m4QHT_CGL-VYlyI5I4xg625Nwc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HmY8UsBC9r7gA8GHgZAB&ved=0CGEQ6AEwFQ#v=onepage&q=%22banu%20kalb%22%20syria&f=false

[FrostDragon]

"Semitic" isn't even a race, but a liturgical group, and not all Semitic-speakers looed the same; Ethioupians speak a Semitic language, are they Arabs too? On contrast, the western Semites are decribed to fair-featured and thickly-beareded, similar to later-in-history Europeans.
http://www.britam.org/anthropology.html

[Behrouz]

"Semitic" isn't even a race, but a liturgical group, and not all Semitic-speakers looed the same; Ethioupians speak a Semitic language, are they Arabs too? On contrast, the western Semites are decribed to fair-featured and thickly-beareded, similar to later-in-history Europeans.
http://www.britam.org/anthropology.html

Yet another nordicist Jew.

[ariel]

There have been no genetic studies on the Alawis, but the Alawis have always claimed to be of the kalbiyya tribe.

And the Kalb tribe did in fact migrate from Yemen to Syria:

http://books.google.com/books?id=kyEYAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=%22banu+kalb%22+syria&source=bl&ots=4-rv1-9KhJ&sig=2m4QHT_CGL-VYlyI5I4xg625Nwc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HmY8UsBC9r7gA8GHgZAB&ved=0CGEQ6AEwFQ#v=onepage&q=%22banu%20kalb%22%20syria&f=false

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?615-Assyrian-Y-DNA-Distribution/page5

[Sultan Suleiman]

To understand how the ancient Jews looked, just look at the Cypriots (and even that is too kind), but "why do they do it" is a bit obvious.

[ariel]

To understand how the ancient Jews look just look at the Cypriots (and even that is too kind).

i dont think so, the original israelites of 3000 years ago were lack of any arabian blood. cypriots have arab admix.

the original israelites were lighter than cypriots.the levant change a lot during the last 2600 years.then the admix began.

[YeshAtid]

To understand how the ancient Jews look just look at the Cypriots (and even that is too kind), but "why do they do it" is a bit obvious.

Perhaps but Lebanese Marionites are better representatives

[Sultan Suleiman]

cypriots have arab admix.


Minimal admix, the rest are pure fantasies.

[Behrouz]

i dont think so, the original israelites of 3000 years ago were lack of any arabian blood. cypriots have arab admix.

the original israelites were lighter than cypriots.the levant change a lot during the last 2600 years.then the admix began.

Stop repeating the same bullshit. What the fuck is Arabian blood anyway? If you mean southwest asian admixture by saying that, even the Ashkenazi Jews have it you idiot. Ancient Jews were southwest asian Semites carrying huge amount of SW-asian admixture, get over it.

[ariel]

Minimal admix, the rest is pure fantasies.

no minimal.300 years of arab occupation .;)

[ariel]

Stop repeating the same bullshit. What the fuck is Arabian blood anyway? If you mean southwest asian admixture by saying that, even the Ashkenazi Jews have it you idiot. They were southwest asian Semites carrying huge amount of SW-asian admixture, get over it.

arab component and sw asian component is not the same.

[Sultan Suleiman]

no minimal.300 years of arab occupation .;)

And Jews spent 1400 years.

[daedal1]

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?615-Assyrian-Y-DNA-Distribution/page5

That's a Y-DNA analysis based on 'Eti (Hittite) Turks' or alawis in Turkey. There hasn't been a comprehensive analysis yet, even on the alawis in turkey, let alone Syrian Alawis.

[Behrouz]

arab component and sw asian component is not the same.


There is no such thing as 'Arab component'. The SW asian component peaks in jazirat al Arab (Arabian peninsula) and is high among many other Arabs, or Semitic peoples of the ME, such as Jews.

[Prince Carlo]

i dont think so, the original israelites of 3000 years ago were lack of any arabian blood. cypriots have arab admix.

the original israelites were lighter than cypriots.the levant change a lot during the last 2600 years.then the admix began.

Ancient Israelites were a mix of Levantines, Beduins and Egyptians. LOL even your beloved David had a yemeni wife.

[ariel]

Ancient Israelites were a mix of Levantines, Beduins and Egyptians. LOL even your beloved David had a yemeni wife.

no....ancient israelites were pure canaanites.david were hasband of bat-sheva-israelite woman.

[Cleitus]

No Israelites were Hebrews and caananites are wicked.

[daedal1]

i dont think so, the original israelites of 3000 years ago were lack of any arabian blood. cypriots have arab admix.

the original israelites were lighter than cypriots.the levant change a lot during the last 2600 years.then the admix began.

Even Ashkenazi Jews have 'arab admix' according to the study. Were ancient Jews whiter than Ashkenazis?

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1003316.g004&representation=PNG_M

[ariel]

Even Ashkenazi Jews have 'arab admix' according to the study. Were ancient Jews whiter than Ashkenazis?

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1003316.g004&representation=PNG_M

the arab admix in ashkenazi jews are from the last 2000-2300 years. because mixing with itoreans- nabatean arabian tribe who converted to judaism.

[daedal1]

the arab admix in ashkenazi jews are from the last 2000-2300 years. because mixing with itoreans- nabatean arabian tribe who converted to judaism.

And? Would you say that Georgians are whiter than Ashkenazi Jews, because they don't have any 'arab admix'?

[ariel]

No Israelites were Hebrews and caananites are wicked.

no, hebrew is a canaanite language closley related to other southern-canaanite languages such amonite, edomite and moabite languages. the ancient israelites were originaly politheistic people until the seconde temple were build.

[ariel]

And? Would you say that Georgians are whiter than Ashkenazi Jews, because they don't have any 'arab admix'?

i said nothing. i only giving a proof to my claims.

[ariel]

That's a Y-DNA analysis based on 'Eti (Hittite) Turks' or alawis in Turkey. There hasn't been a comprehensive analysis yet, even on the alawis in turkey, let alone Syrian Alawis.

even the alawites in turkey not related to bedouins they look levantines to me.

[daedal1]

i said nothing. i only giving a proof to my claims.

Regardless, the fact that Georgians are even less white than Ashkenazis, while still being west asians with no 'arab admix' debunks your notion of the ancient jews being as white as modern ashkenazis. Next, you're going to say that ancient levantines were whiter than caucasians.....Yeah, I'm sure they were whiter than chechens, and they probably also had electric air conditioning.

[ariel]

Regardless, the fact that Georgians are even less white than Ashkenazis, while still being west asians with no 'arab admix' debunks your notion of the ancient jews being as white as modern ashkenazis. Next, you're going to say that ancient levantines were whiter than caucasians.....Yeah, I'm sure they were whiter than chechens, and they probably also had electric air conditioning.

i dont care whar do you thinking.

[daedal1]

even the alawites in turkey not related to bedouins they look levantines to me.

Well, at best, even from the study of alawis in Turkey, they're closest in terms of y-dna structure to the Druze, so, still, not even as close to Europeans as Cypriots are, regardless.

[7eleven]

Ashkenazim are Romans.

[ariel]

Well, at best, even from the study of alawis in Turkey, they're closest in terms of y-dna structure to the Druze, so, still, not even as close to Europeans as Cypriots are, regardless.

and still they lighters than the cypriots in your pics......interesting

[daedal1]

and still they lighters than the cypriots in you pics......interesting

You mean your cherry-picked alawis. LOL, you can't cherry-pick with cypriots, and blame it on arabs, sorry.

[ariel]

You mean your cherry-picked alawis. LOL, you can't cherry-pick with cypriots, and blame it on arabs, sorry.

whole assad familly can not be chery picked pics

and in crowds

http://imageshack.us/a/img138/7793/b055.jpg

[daedal1]

whole assad familly can not be chery picked pics



Assad's wife is a Sunni and so is her father, that must mean all sunnis look like that.

Anyway, average alawi soldiers look like this. They're still even darker than cypriots, arguably.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eM0NBo_Ids

[ariel]

Assad's wife is a Sunni and so is her father, that must mean all sunnis look like that.

Anyway, average alawi soldiers look like this. They're still even darker than cypriots, arguably.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eM0NBo_Ids

IN THIS ARMY SERVING ALSO MANY SUNI ARABS AS WELL.

BUT HERE YOU CAN SEE ALAWITE WOMAN UNITE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4CIR36bjL4

[daedal1]

IN THIS ARMY SERVING ALSO MANY SUNI ARABS AS WELL.



There are virtually no sunnis in the army.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG-Qc7WOfKU

Alawis singing with Hezbollah forces, you can't even tell the difference. Regardless, they're darker than cypriots.

[Kiyant]

Who gives a fuck about being white?
Only losers who dont have a history or just wantz to desperately be a part of the "white" race think about that.
Jews are just jews.
The Sephardi and Ashkenaz are "white" the rest is either black/Arabid/Iranid or Turkic.

[ariel]

There are virtually no sunnis in the army.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG-Qc7WOfKU

Alawis singing with Hezbollah forces, you can't even tell the difference. Regardless, they're darker than cypriots.

many sunni served in the syrian army stop lying.

the elite unites are of alawites

[ariel]

The majority of the Syrian military are Sunni, but most of the military leadership are Alawites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Armed_Forces

you are trolllllllllllll

[daedal1]

The majority of the Syrian military are Sunni, but most of the military leadership are Alawites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Armed_Forces



There are almost no sunnis in the army. They all deserted after the civil war started. The last time a census was conducted was BEFORE the civil war began. That's why Assad's forces had to be reinforced by hezbollah and iraqi shias.

Why would sunnis sing songs with hezbollah militamen who raise flags over sunni mosques?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkOtP5R9Ya0

Average Alawis (not even soldiers):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkiBXZCueeY

Same, still darker than cypriots.

[ariel]

There are almost no sunnis in the army. They all deserted after the civil war started. The last time a census was conducted was BEFORE the civil war began. That's why Assad's forces had to be reinforced by hezbollah and iraqi shias.

Why would sunnis sing songs with hezbollah militamen who raise flags over sunni mosques?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkOtP5R9Ya0

Average Alawis (not even soldiers):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkiBXZCueeY

Same, still darker than cypriots.

and if you a saying who the people not have arab admix so you a liar.

the moedrn levantines are darker than their acestors do to mixing with arabs and north africans people. so what this proving nothing about the original levantines.

[daedal1]

and if you a saying who the people not have arab admix so you a liar.

the moedrn levantines are darker than their acestors do to mixing with arabs and north africans people. so what this proving nothing about the original levantines.

I showed you how Georgians didn't have 'arab admix', but would you say that they're whiter than Ashkenazi Jews? So, what does that prove?

[Philo]

Is he an actor? :icon_ask: He looks somewhat familiar.

Well, something like that.. :lol:. He's not an actor in shows where you need to play somebody, but in game shows or shows where you have a group of people and they try to entertain the crowd.

Why do you post European-looking Jews (who are a minority) to represent typical Jewish look? You're well aware that the vast majority of Ashkenazi genome comes from european converts and rape. Are you ashamed of your Levantine ancestry my friend?


You are dumb, Persian. The guy I posted does'nt really look European at all. It's just his coloring that gives you that impression. His features are typical for ancient Judeans. And the "original Jew" you posted is a yemeni Jew, a convert. You're so, so dumb :whoo:. Guess it's normal for Persians.


You don't need to look at autosomals which don't do shit to look at ancient populations anyway. Semites are the E groups, and the jews are from J haplotype, not E. Js are originally white people.

So like every thread like this. Is [fill in the blank white]? NO. WAS [fill in the blank] white? YES. We used to know it through history but camelriders, east asians and afrocentrists did all they could to deny it. Now we have the genetics, that's the end of it.
Jews are 20% E, 20% J1, and 20% J2. I mean, close to that %. I'm talking about Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews. These are all haplogroups present in ancient Levantines. That's all.

Where did you get this? Arabs have more J than Jews (who are a semitic people too).

Arabs from Arabia are predominantly J1, they don't have much of the more northern J2.

[Behrouz]

You are dumb, Persian. The guy I posted does'nt really look European at all. It's just his coloring that gives you that impression. His features are typical for ancient Judeans. And the "original Jew" you posted is a yemeni Jew, a convert. You're so, so dumb :whoo:. Guess it's normal for Persians.


Calm down Jew, you sound like you've just been released from a concentration camp. The guy you posted does look like European, a southern one. Even Palestinians look more original Jewish compared to Ashkenazi Jews who are mostly converts.

[Alexq]

ancient jews were not even human at first. they are shapeshifters!!!:lightbul:

[daedal1]

Calm down Jew, you sound like you've just been released from a concentration camp. The guy you posted does look like European, a southern one. Even Palestinians look more original Jewish compared to Ashkenazi Jews who are mostly converts.

Give it a rest. palestinians don't look more original jewish at all, they look more bedouin. :P

In all seriousness, if you had said that Syrian/Leb muslims looked more 'original jewish' than ashkenazis, even that would be more acceptable. But, let's get this straight, southern italians and ashkenazis are genetically closer to Turks and Druze than they are to most europeans.

[YeshAtid]

Palestinian Christians are largely levantine

Edward Said
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/747/bo4.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01716/edward-said_1716144c.jpg

[daedal1]

Palestinian Christians are largely levantine

Is 'palestinian' even a real nationality? They're just jordanians, egyptians, syrians, etc. anyway. Maybe the 'palestinian christians' are syrian christians.

[YeshAtid]

Is 'palestinian' even a real nationality? They're just jordanians, egyptians, syrians, etc. anyway. Maybe the 'palestinian christians' are syrian christians.

Depends

[Behrouz]

Is 'palestinian' even a real nationality?
Compared to Jews, yes.
http://theuglytruth.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/3jews.jpg?w=620,

[Sultan Suleiman]

i said nothing. i only giving a proof to my claims.

Impresive logic....

[Philo]

The guy you posted does look like European, a southern one. Even Palestinians look more original Jewish compared to Ashkenazi Jews who are mostly converts.

No, Perso-Nutzi.

Is 'palestinian' even a real nationality? They're just jordanians, egyptians, syrians, etc. anyway. Maybe the 'palestinian christians' are syrian christians.

They've admitted it themselves, actually:

Between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese there are no differences. We are all part of ONE people, the Arab nation. Look, I have family members with Palestinian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Syrian citizenship. We are ONE people. Just for political reasons we carefully underwrite our Palestinian identity. Because it is of national interest for the Arabs to advocate the existence of Palestinians to balance Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new tool to continue the fight against Israel and for Arab unity.

A separate Palestinian entity needs to fight for the national interest in the then remaining occupied territories. The Jordanian government cannot speak for Palestinians in Israel, Lebanon or Syria. Jordan is a state with specific borders. It cannot lay claim on - for instance - Haifa or Jaffa, while I AM entitled to Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem en Beersheba. Jordan can only speak for Jordanians and the Palestinians in Jordan. The Palestinian state would be entitled to represent all Palestinians in the Arab world en elsewhere. Once we have accomplished all of our rights in all of Palestine, we shouldn't postpone the unification of Jordan and Palestine for one second.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen

[riverman]

Give it a rest. palestinians don't look more original jewish at all, they look more bedouin. :P

In all seriousness, if you had said that Syrian/Leb muslims looked more 'original jewish' than ashkenazis, even that would be more acceptable. But, let's get this straight, southern italians and ashkenazis are genetically closer to Turks and Druze than they are to most europeans.

apples and oranges, Palestinians were different people from Jews, that's why they don't practice Judaism, Jews only started converting in any amount to Christianity in the modern era

[KuriousKatKommittee]

Why do Jewish members think ancient Jews were white?
*ahem*
Moses in the middle, King David on the left, King of Europe on the right. #TruthDoesNotFearInvestigation
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BnkV7XTh8lU/maxresdefault.jpg