Why are Turkic Balkars and Iranic North Ossetians genetically the same people?

[Sky earth]

We have two ethnicities in the North Caucasus who are genetically the same people but don't speak related languages with each other. Those people are the Turkic Balkars and Iranic North Ossetians. These people have neither the same religion nor they speak related language but their DNA is the same

Balkars:

East European: 8.2 %
West European: 15.2 %
Mediterranean: 18.1 %
Neo African: 0 %
West Asian: 43.5 %
South Asian: 3.7 %
Northeast Asian: 4.2 %
Southeast Asian: 3.2 %
East African: 0 %
Southwest Asian: 3.8 %
Northwest African: 0 %
Paleo African: 0 %


North Ossetians:

East European: 7.2 %
West European: 14.1 %
Mediterranean: 17.7 %
Neo African: 0 %
West Asian: 45.8 %
South Asian: 4 %
Northeast Asian: 4.4 %
Southeast Asian: 3.1 %
East African: 0 %
Southwest Asian: 3.7 %
Northwest African: 0 %
Paleo African: 0 %

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDUyeEtjNnBmY09EbnowN3M3UWRyN nc&authkey=COCa89AJ&hl=en_US&authkey=COCa89AJ#gid=0

What could be the reason for this. Have they mixed so much with each other that their Autosomal DNA got the same at the end? That makes no sense. Why should they mix with each other? Balkars are Muslims while Ossetians are Christian and they also aren't aren't related linguistically with each other.

Do we have a classical case of language shift here? If we have this who switched the language? Did Ossetians adopted an Iranian langauge or did the Balkars adopted a Turkic tongue?

What's your opinion about the genetical similarities between Ossetians and Balkars? Language shift or Intermarriage?

[Fire Haired]

U cant say their genetically the same people just have extremely similar results on that aust dna test. North Ossetians speak a Indo Iranian language but specifically of branch of Sycthian. THe reason their so similar is they live in almost the exact same area. Language does not tell everything about Genetic's. The ancient Sycthians and early Indo iranian DNA samples show they had almost only Y DNa R1a1(Specifcally R1a1a1b2 Z93 but they did not test that far i guess), mainly fair hair and eyes, and over 1% red hair. All those features Ossetians do not have so they are not full blooded Sycthians. And the original Turkic speakers were from all i know is eastern asia and were not Caucasians at all u know they looked klike typical east asian people unlike Balkars.

So neither decend mainly from the first people to speak their language. They descend mainly from probably people who already lived there thats why they are so similar in that aust dna test.

[StonyArabia]

We have two ethnicities in the North Caucasus who are genetically the same people but don't speak related languages with each other. Those people are the Turkic Balkars and Iranic North Ossetians. These people have neither the same religion nor they speak related language but their DNA is the same

Balkars:

East European: 8.2 %
West European: 15.2 %
Mediterranean: 18.1 %
Neo African: 0 %
West Asian: 43.5 %
South Asian: 3.7 %
Northeast Asian: 4.2 %
Southeast Asian: 3.2 %
East African: 0 %
Southwest Asian: 3.8 %
Northwest African: 0 %
Paleo African: 0 %


North Ossetians:

East European: 7.2 %
West European: 14.1 %
Mediterranean: 17.7 %
Neo African: 0 %
West Asian: 45.8 %
South Asian: 4 %
Northeast Asian: 4.4 %
Southeast Asian: 3.1 %
East African: 0 %
Southwest Asian: 3.7 %
Northwest African: 0 %
Paleo African: 0 %

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDUyeEtjNnBmY09EbnowN3M3UWRyN nc&authkey=COCa89AJ&hl=en_US&authkey=COCa89AJ#gid=0

What could be the reason for this. Have they mixed so much with each other that their Autosomal DNA got the same at the end? That makes no sense. Why should they mix with each other? Balkars are Muslims while Ossetians are Christian and they also aren't aren't related linguistically with each other.

Do we have a classical case of language shift here? If we have this who switched the language? Did Ossetians adopted an Iranian langauge or did the Balkars adopted a Turkic tongue?

What's your opinion about the genetical similarities between Ossetians and Balkars? Language shift or Intermarriage?

This would prove in part that the Balkars are indeed descendants of the Alanic tribes. According to legend among them, that it was Alanic, Circassian, and Kipchak tribe united together against Tamer Lane when he invaded their lands. Eventually these people called themselves Balkars which can be translated into "Highlanders" or Mountainers.

The Balkars also seem to have shifted their language to Turkic because of the Kipchak influence and probably due to some kinda of lingua franca at the time. This might also explain their conversion to Islam. I don't think the Balkars intermarried heavily with the Ossetians, they were the same as them just modified through the Kipchak influence and the adoption of Islam.

Also the Balkar phenotype is quite interesting since the women appear to look more Mongoloid than the Men, and this in itself indicates that the Balkar do indeed have some Turkic admix.

[Serpent Mist]

Do Balkars have the same level of similarity with the Karachay as they do the Ossetians? Also, if you know, how similar are they to Circassians?

[Chichic]

Balkars are actually closer to Circassians than to Ossetians.

[Black Wolf]

What these results show is that both of these groups are overwhelmingly descended from native Caucasian peoples who adopted Indo-European and Turkic languages.

[StonyArabia]

What these results show is that both of these groups are overwhelmingly descended from native Caucasian peoples who adopted Indo-European and Turkic languages.

Pretty much. Balkars are very close to Circassians and Ossetians, I don't know how the Karachay are but I would not doubt it, if it's the same. The Nogai on the other hand are pretty much Mongoloid admixed Kavkazians.

[War Chef]

What these results show is that both of these groups are overwhelmingly descended from native Caucasian peoples who adopted Indo-European and Turkic languages.

I beg to differ. There is substantial north Eurasian influence in Ossetians and Balkars:

http://i57.tinypic.com/2s67gb4.jpg


U cant say their genetically the same people just have extremely similar results on that aust dna test. North Ossetians speak a Indo Iranian language but specifically of branch of Sycthian. THe reason their so similar is they live in almost the exact same area. Language does not tell everything about Genetic's. The ancient Sycthians and early Indo iranian DNA samples show they had almost only Y DNa R1a1(Specifcally R1a1a1b2 Z93 but they did not test that far i guess), mainly fair hair and eyes, and over 1% red hair. All those features Ossetians do not have so they are not full blooded Sycthians. And the original Turkic speakers were from all i know is eastern asia and were not Caucasians at all u know they looked klike typical east asian people unlike Balkars.

So neither decend mainly from the first people to speak their language. They descend mainly from probably people who already lived there thats why they are so similar in that aust dna test.

That's a very Eurocentrist way to look at it. But the reality is Ossetian language is Alan (late Scythian). The Scythians were mingling in Central Asia with Pamir-Fergana Mediterranean types as well as some Mongoloid types, so your Nordicist view on the Alans holds no merit.

[StonyArabia]

I beg to differ. There is substantial north Eurasian influence in Ossetians and Balkars:
http://i57.tinypic.com/2s67gb4.jpg


All Caucasians are partially North Eurasian influenced are they not, Adyghe/Cherkess, Kumyk are. Well Tats are not for example, I don't know about Ingush, Chechens though.

[Black Wolf]

I beg to differ. There is substantial north Eurasian influence in Ossetians and Balkars:

http://i57.tinypic.com/2s67gb4.jpg



That's a very Eurocentrist way to look at it. But the reality is Ossetian language is Alan (late Scythian). The Scythians were mingling in Central Asia with Pamir-Fergana Mediterranean types as well as some Mongoloid types, so your Nordicist view on the Alans holds no merit.

If you are looking at the Northeast_Asian component and using that as what you call ''North Eurasian'' the Balkars and Ossetians do not seem to have much more of that component than other Caucasians such as Chechens and Adygei. They are not out of place really. Sure they have some East Eurasian admixture as shown here and it probably comes from the times of the Mongol invasions or earlier contact with nomads invading the Caucasus. They still descend mostly from native peoples of the Caucasus.