Moroccan Autosomal DNA from Eurogenes MDLP K27 By Region.

[Sikeliot]

I only counted anything over 1%.

NORTH MOROCCO:
N. African -- 51.97
Southwest European -- 14.46
Caucasian-Near Eastern -- 10.30
Cushitic -- 6.14
Arabic -- 5.63
Bantu -- 2.84
Baltic-Finnic -- 1.72


SOUTH MOROCCO:
North African -- 49.76
Bantu -- 21.33
Cushitic -- 6.68
SW European -- 6.41
Caucasus-Near Eastern -- 3.42
Arabic -- 3.33
Nilo-Saharan -- 1.87
Central African Hunter Gatherer -- 1.17


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqr2nbGXpVFndHo5TnJZR2VFYW1lcExMNGUyWTVhe VE#gid=0

[farfan]

I only counted anything over 1%.

NORTH MOROCCO:
N. African -- 51.97
Southwest European -- 14.46
Caucasian-Near Eastern -- 10.30
Cushitic -- 6.14
Arabic -- 5.63
Bantu -- 2.84
Baltic-Finnic -- 1.72


SOUTH MOROCCO:
North African -- 49.76
Bantu -- 21.33
Cushitic -- 6.68
SW European -- 6.41
Caucasus-Near Eastern -- 3.42
Arabic -- 3.33
Nilo-Saharan -- 1.87
Central African Hunter Gatherer -- 1.17


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqr2nbGXpVFndHo5TnJZR2VFYW1lcExMNGUyWTVhe VE#gid=0

what is norh morocco and south morocco according to the study ? these terms are pretty vague .

[Tropico]

Damn the Bantu jumped.

[Sikeliot]

Damn the Bantu jumped.

North Morocco has some degree of Iberian ancestry (from expelled Spanish and Portuguese Muslims during the Reconquista) that is evident in the SW Euro, while South Morocco was heavily impacted by the Arab Slave Trade, which took slaves from Senegambia.

[farfan]

Damn the Bantu jumped.


that's one of the biggest north-south divergence i've seen .

[farfan]

North Morocco has some degree of Iberian ancestry (from expelled Spanish and Portuguese Muslims during the Reconquista) that is evident in the SW Euro, while South Morocco was heavily impacted by the Arab Slave Trade, which took slaves from Senegambia.

but what about central morocco ? where does the south starts according to this study ?

[Sikeliot]

but what about central morocco ? where does the south starts according to this study ?

I am unsure. But I assume the north means the coast.

[Lábaru]

Do you have the Spain results of this same study? send it to me via PM if you have.

[Sidi Atlas]

what is norh morocco and south morocco according to the study ? these terms are pretty vague .

Sample is quite small, 13 for North Moroccans and 15 for South Moroccans.

[Prince Carlo]

The North African cluster is hiding some SSA.

Saharawi score the same amount of SSA of other North Africans, as shown in this recent paper.

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2013/12/23/001552.DC1/001552-2.pdf

[Black Wolf]

I only counted anything over 1%.

NORTH MOROCCO:
N. African -- 51.97
Southwest European -- 14.46
Caucasian-Near Eastern -- 10.30
Cushitic -- 6.14
Arabic -- 5.63
Bantu -- 2.84
Baltic-Finnic -- 1.72


SOUTH MOROCCO:
North African -- 49.76
Bantu -- 21.33
Cushitic -- 6.68
SW European -- 6.41
Caucasus-Near Eastern -- 3.42
Arabic -- 3.33
Nilo-Saharan -- 1.87
Central African Hunter Gatherer -- 1.17


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqr2nbGXpVFndHo5TnJZR2VFYW1lcExMNGUyWTVhe VE#gid=0

Sikeliot Eurogenes and MDLP are two different projects.

[Sikeliot]

Well, whatever it is .

[KidMulat]

North Morocco has some degree of Iberian ancestry (from expelled Spanish and Portuguese Muslims during the Reconquista) that is evident in the SW Euro, while South Morocco was heavily impacted by the Arab Slave Trade, which took slaves from Senegambia.


Largely incorrect information regarding the origins of Southern Moroccans

But go here
http://www.heindehaas.com/IMAROM/IMAROM%20working%20papers/IMAROM%20Working%20Paper%205%20(De%20Haas%20&%20El%20Ghanjou).pdf

Page 11

[Prince Carlo]

I guess that Southern Moroccans are represented by Tuaregs or some other isolated group.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Largely incorrect information regarding the origins of Southern Moroccans

But go here
http://www.heindehaas.com/IMAROM/IMAROM%20working%20papers/IMAROM%20Working%20Paper%205%20(De%20Haas%20&%20El%20Ghanjou).pdf

Page 11

What you posted is irrelevant to what he said. Maybe you got the page number wrong?

[KidMulat]

What you posted is irrelevant to what he said. Maybe you got the page number wrong?

He said Southern Moroccans were heavily impacted by the trans-Saharan slave trade genetically when in fact although that particular group was by time of research endogamous, the original inhabitants of those lands were black with later Berber and Arab groups intermixing with them and brouht enslaved blacks from further south into serfdom.

Its also the assumption that black ancestry equates to slavery which for southern Morroccans/Libya/Sahara is simply not the case.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

He said Southern Moroccans were heavily impacted by the trans-Saharan slave trade genetically when in fact although that particular group was by time of research endogamous, the original inhabitants of those lands were black with later Berber and Arab groups intermixing with them and bring enslaved blacks from further south to serfdom.

Its also the assumption that black ancestry equates to slavery which for southern Morroccans/Libya/Sahara simply not the case.

I know what he said; the question is whether your source says what you say. Maybe it does... but it's not on page 11.

On top of that if we're talking about genetics then obviously a paper that references population genetics in 2000 is more than likely obsolete. Population genetics has come a long way since 2000.

[KidMulat]

I know what he said; the question is whether your source says what you say. Maybe it does... but it's not on page 11.

On top of that if we're talking about genetics then obviously a paper that references population genetics in 2000 is more than likely obsolete. Population genetics has come a long way since 2000.

Oh I see the problem, on PDF its page 11 but the actual number on the page is 5.

[Gaston]

In the same paper as Joseph capelli gave a link to, it is stated most Europeans are a 3-way admix between Early European farmers (maybe a West Eurasian + basal Eurasian hybrid), West European Hunter-Gathers (West Eurasians) and Ancient North Eurasians (partial ancestor of both Europeans/some West Asians and Native Americans).

If North Moroccans have European ancestry, they'll get Ancient North Eurasian ancestry too (and elevated European Hunter-Gatherer), which I highly doubt. The picture is becoming even more complicated because North Africans can also be mostly Basal Eurasian (non-West Eurasian).

[Sidi Atlas]

He said Southern Moroccans were heavily impacted by the trans-Saharan slave trade genetically when in fact although that particular group was by time of research endogamous, the original inhabitants of those lands were black with later Berber and Arab groups intermixing with them and brouht enslaved blacks from further south into serfdom.

Its also the assumption that black ancestry equates to slavery which for southern Morroccans/Libya/Sahara is simply not the case.
Your source is not convincing. It's a paper about "Land & Water Management and Resource Exploitation in the Oases" not an actual genetic study. And even then on page 11 they make assumptions as well.

I would to refer to actual genetic studies on the impact of SSA admixture in North Africa, which always conclude that it is a recent phenomena (mostly due to trans-Saharan slave trade from the 7th century onward), http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/10/138

The coalescence ages for the L sequences observed nowadays in North Africa shows the young ancestry of these lineages, which were originated in sub-Saharan Africa in the Holocene. This proves that sub-Saharan people did not leave traces in the maternal gene pool for the time of settlement of North Africa, some 40,000 years ago. And for sure, the continuous publishing of complete L sequences across Africa will reveal still younger ancestors between L sequences observed in both sides of the Saharan desert, bringing its introduction into North Africa to more recent/historical times.

It is also relevant that the interpolation analyses of haplogroups inside the L pool across the Sahara revealed horizontal gradients, matching in a high extent the known trans-Saharan routes. The West is dominated by L1b, L2b, L2c, L2d, L3b and L3d. The Center has L3e and some L3f and L3w. The East bears L0a, L3h, L3i, L3x and, in common with the Center, L3f and L3w. L2a is almost everywhere, strengthening its dominance in the slave package, not only towards the New World, but also in the trans-Saharan trade.

Both these genetic evidences agree with historical data that the introduction of the Asiatic horse into North Africa around 2,000 years ago lengthened the reach of desert nomads' raiding and trading. Before this period, the few black slaves taken from time to time across the Sahara would have been seen on the far side of the Mediterranean as mere exotic household ornaments. But, it may be argued that there was no regular trans-Saharan trade system before the rise of the camel-mounted Berber nomad, in the first Christian centuries, and perhaps not even until after the arrival of the first camel-riding Muslim Arabs in North Africa, in the seventh century.

[farfan]

The North African cluster is hiding some SSA.

Saharawi score the same amount of SSA of other North Africans, as shown in this recent paper.

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2013/12/23/001552.DC1/001552-2.pdf


contrary to popular belief , the sahrawi are not the " blackest " people in the maghreb.

south-east morocco is where you find negroid phenotypes in abondance . zagora , Assa-Zag etc..

[Prince Carlo]

Sahrawi people are a good proxy for Southern Moroccans, and they get the same amount of SSA usually found among coastal North Africans. As I've said before, only small isolated groups would score higher than average.

[Portukalos]

Sahrawi people are a good proxy for Southern Moroccans, and they get the same amount of SSA usually found among coastal North Africans. As I've said before, only small isolated groups would score higher than average.

The North African cluster of Saharawis hides more SSA admixture than that of other North Africans. Heck it is higher than that of coastal populations such as North Moroccans. The Saharawis are definitely more SSA than coastal populations , but they are not the most SSA. The most SSA are South Moroccans used by Hen et all which are not Saharawi but random Moroccans from Ouarzazate. Btw in the link you gave , none are truely coastal populations. Both Tunisian and Mozabite samples are from heavily inbred communities in the center of their respective countries. The Algerian is sample is a mix of northern and southern individuals. Btw it is not clear wether the African component in all North Africa is exclusively SSA. Some of it must trace back to the Aterian industry. While not being Western Eurasian, the Aterian were native African envolved in North Africa seperately from the rest of the continent. Many have argued (including anthropologist Charles Coon) that they would have developed a unique phenotype kind of Mongoloid like (or Khoisan-like). They disapeared but this phenotype still exist among Berbers.