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Oresai
12-29-2008, 10:57 AM
This is an article from the Scotsman online. I`m generally pro fur. I tan sheepskins for a living, so be odd not to be. ;)

But....I do think fur should either be a product of the meat industry, or that folks should learn to hunt, kill, butcher and skin their own. :D (mainly because I`m evil and like to see grown men turn green and faint on occasion, har...:D)

I don`t think fur should be taken from rare beasts, there are other fur bearing creatures with equally suitable pelts and the only reason exotic species are used in the fur trade is for rarity (thus economic) value.
But puppies? Well, I`m a dog lover. If they eat dog meat, fair enough, if not, then someone should make sure they do......
(incidentally, Viking age women made great use of cat fur. :) )



A dozen pups skinned alive to make one fur coat – why China must halt pelt trade


Date: 29 December 2008
By JENNY HAWORTH
A BAN on the "abhorrent" trade in cat and dog fur comes into force in the UK this week. From Thursday, it will be illegal to import, export or sell the fur harvested from millions of cats and dogs slaughtered each year in the Far East.

The fur is used for products ranging from children's soft toys, to coats, trims on clothes, linings in boots, pet toys and rugs. It has been found for sale across Europe, including the UK.

The majority of the cats and dogs are killed in China, where they are kept in cruel conditions and sometimes skinned alive.

The EU-wide ban follows similar legislation in America and Australia, but China continues a thriving trade with some other countries, particularly Russia.

Struan Stevenson, the Scottish MEP who has campaigned for a ban for nine years, said that China needed to act.

"China must now follow suit if it genuinely wants to belong to the global family of civilised nations," said Mr Stevenson. "I urge the Chinese authorities to ban this trade and, in particular, to close down the export of cat and dog skins to Russia."

He added that the use of the skins for fashion goods and novelty items could not possibly justify the "cruel rearing, cramped living conditions or the barbaric killing of over two million animals each year".

He urged retailers and shoppers to remain vigilant to make sure the banned fur is not bought or sold in the UK.

A breach of the ban will bring a penalty of up to seven years in prison.

Customs officers will enforce the ban using forensic techniques such as DNA analysis to detect cat and dog fur, and build on work they already carry out to prevent the illegal movement of endangered species.

In the past, it has been difficult to assess fur imported into the UK, especially if it had been dyed. Evidence suggests cats are often hung from the neck by a wire noose, and can be skinned while still alive.

They are either rounded up or bred in captivity, often in dark, cramped conditions, and transported without food or water. Breeding farms are usually in northern China, where the colder climate enhances the quality and thickness of their coats.

Products include coats each made from 12 Alsatian puppies, and Labrador rugs.

In order to appear more acceptable to customers in Europe, items are often labelled as being made from fake fur, or from fur from a different animal.

UK trade minister Gareth Thomas said it was an "abhorrent trade which has no place in our markets". He added: "This ban will give UK consumers confidence that whether shopping here or within the EU, they will not be sold products containing cat or dog fur."

The trade was exposed a decade ago and a ban has attracted high-profile support, including from Sir Paul McCartney, his former wife Heather Mills, rock star Rick Wakeman, and Dennis Erdman, the director of television show Sex And The City, who persuaded Hollywood celebrities to write to Brussels supporting a ban.

In 1999, a London fur firm was exposed as trading in cat and dog fur. A salesman was filmed offering 10,000 dog furs from China and 150,000 cat furs.

It is still not mandatory to label fur included in garments in the UK, although the British Fur Trade Association introduced a voluntary labelling scheme in 2003.

Dr Barbara Maaf, chief executive of campaign group Care for the Wild, said the ban was a "step in the right direction", but added that it was not enough to end the trade in Europe.

Loki
12-29-2008, 11:04 AM
It depends. Fur as a commodity farmed from domesticated animals is no different morally than farming for meat. But when it comes to wild animals, I'm a virulent conservationist hippie. :D

Absinthe
12-29-2008, 11:16 AM
No, I strongly oppose to the use of it, especially when the animals are skinned alive, asian-style. :(

And I generally dislike the idea since it's not the only thing we can dress ourselves with, anymore.

Groenewolf
12-29-2008, 02:51 PM
Only if as much of the rest of the animal is used also. At least the meat for eating.

Æmeric
12-29-2008, 03:09 PM
I have no problem with fur/animal hides. I don't understand this Asian obsession with skinning animals alive (:eek:) but killing the animals first & then skinning them is ok, even wild animals. Where I live deer hunting is very popular though I've never killed one myself - with a gun that is, they are attracted to headlights though. Hunting animals into extinction doesn't make sense, most sportsmen & persons who hunt for their livelihood (in North America) are smart enough to realize that. But some of the conservation laws in the US can be very draconian, for example I can't harvest wild ginseng even on my own property. And some species of birds are protected to the extent that if you pick up a feather off the ground that came from certain species of birds, like eagles, you could be charged with a federal crime.


http://www.millersriver.net/turtles/turtle001.gif

A few years ago the state of Indiana made it illegal to keep turtles like the one above - locally called terps - as pets, though if you already had one you could keep it if you registered it with the Indiana Department of Natural Resources. (http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5119.htm) Believe me, these turtles are not in danger of extinction, I'm constantly swerving to avoid them on the roads after it rains. Many of the laws regarding wildlife or domesticated farm animals & the propaganda spread through the mainstream media is for the benefit of urban yuppies who know nothing of life in the country or wilderness. It makes no sense for persons who have lived their entire lifes in Manhatten or DC to regulate the lifes of those living in the rural Midwest of the forest of Appalachia or the Rocky Mountains.

Oresai
12-29-2008, 03:17 PM
I do envy Americans the ability in many places to hunt legally at all though. :)
In Scotland, hunting is illegal unless you pay a fortune for the privilege.
I come from a poaching family...my dad is still famous in Sutherland :D :redface_002:
and I`ve poached deer, salmon and the occasional farmers sheep...:redface_002::whistle:
But, he raised me to believe that every animal used for meat or hides deserves a decent death as quick and painfree as possible.
I`ve shown friends who have been vehemently opposed to eating meat and wearing skins, how I cull and butcher my own livestock. They all agreed the beasts suffer little, if at all, and that is down to the expertise of my old dad, who taught me more than one way to despatch an animal, which is valuable to me living here on an island, with no vet at all, especially if they become mortally ill.
But I would love the chance to hunt in the highlands without risking prosecution from it.

Treffie
12-29-2008, 05:14 PM
I'm opposed to it, but only due to the fact that there are thousands of unscrupulous farms that destroy animals inhumanely. This is a difficult area to monitor so I would prefer an ourtight ban.

Aemma
12-29-2008, 06:05 PM
I don't personally have a problem with people hunting or raising their own animals for the purposes of feeding themselves or clothing themselves (and others). The human being is a hunter as well as a gatherer afterall. I think that this is a perfectly human thing to do. Where I do have difficulties though is with situations as presented in the above article. I find it quite inhumane for an animal to be skinned alive. And this 'puppy mill'-type of life for these animals...well, :(. It shows a great lack of respect for that animal's life all in the name of Western consumerism in the end. I find it quite disgusting actually. The information in this article though just gives me one more good reason to continue reading labels as to the country of origin of goods/products and avoid furry products coming from China. :mad:

Cheers for now!...Aemma

Skandi
12-31-2008, 05:13 PM
I have no problem with fur, and you would be amazed by how many people who say they have a problem with it are happily wearing leather. I don't think an animal should be killed just for it's fur (unless it has been raised for that purpose) But one should not throw away a skin of an animal that one intends to eat just because fome fluffy lefty city dweller decides they don't like it.

Fortis in Arduis
01-01-2009, 01:03 PM
Capitalism and animal welfare simply do not mix because under this system you have the possibility of large profit margins and international competition.

They suffer under the same system as us, but even more so. They bear the brunt of our folly.

When human beings arrange their affairs better animals will not suffer so much:


Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

Both of these passages deal with the kingdom age on the earth after the Lord Jesus Christ returns to reign on the earth as King of kings. The ferocious beasts (like the lion) will live peaceably with the gentle animals (like the lamb). Certainly, this will be a literal reality on the earth. However, this picture is also symbolic of the peace that will pervade the entire earth. When preachers speak of the lion and the lamb lying down together, they are referring to the time of peace when Jesus will reign as King over the earth.


http://www.learnthebible.org/q-a-lion-and-lamb.htm

There is an analogous view in hinduism with respect to the Sat Yuga, the golden age.

Of course fur is a delightful product, including dog and cat fur.

Ivory
01-01-2009, 02:20 PM
I don't understand this Asian obsession with skinning animals alive ()Asians are cruel and heartless by nature.