PDA

View Full Version : An alternative to the 2 state solution?



YeshAtid
09-28-2013, 03:48 PM
The “two state solution” (a misnomer) calls for dividing the land of Israel into two states for two “people,” Israel and Palestine, based on the fear that absorbing the Arab population of Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) would render Jews outnumbered in their own country.

Merely living as a Jewish majority should not be the only raison d’ętre for the existence of a Jewish state in the land of Israel. The Jewish people must remember why they deserve and desire the land of Israel in the first place: it is rightfully theirs. The Jewish people were the last, official owners of the land of Israel (having been exiled from it 2,000 years ago) and Jews reconquered it in multiple wars of self-defense. The land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people, and it is the place where they can flower and flourish to their fullest potential as a people, living as a “light unto the nations” in a region overrun by darkness.

We must not begin with the premise that Jews must exist as the majority population, and then fit borders to suit that premise. Rather, Israel must begin with the premise that Jews desire and deserve to settle the entire land of Israel and do what they do best: make their desert bloom.

Assuming the doomsday demographic predictions are even accurate (which several studies show they are not), what would happen if, all of a sudden, we found out that a good number of Palestinian Arabs are, in fact, racially Jewish? And that if they would be formally converted to Judaism, they would tip the scales of demography in favor of a Jewish majority? Would they be rejected by mainstream Jews because of their Arab roots? Would they be embraced? Would Jews who believe in the “two-state solution” suddenly give up the impractical and unethical vision of splitting the land of Israel to create “Israel” and “Palestine”?

These questions should not be dismissed as theoretical because, in fact, evidence suggests that many Palestinian Arabs are actually racially and, in some instances, culturally Jews.

Genetic research conducted by Professor Ariella Oppenheim at Hebrew University found that 82 percent of Palestinians living west of the Jordan River (including those referred to as Israeli Arabs) are genetically closely related to Jews (T. Misinai “The Engagement” 15). This genetic evidence supplements the growing theory that many Palestinian Arabs are actually anusim (Jews who were forcibly converted to another religion yet sought to retain their Jewish tradition). What is the theory behind the claim that Palestinians are anusim?

In the sixth century BCE the Babylonian Empire exiled the Jews from Israel, but near the end of the century, Jews were allowed to return to their homeland. The Jews who remained in Babylon made their way to Iran, Iraq, Yemen, and other Middle East and North African countries and became what are known today as Mizrahi Jewry. Those Jews who returned to Israel suffered a second exile in 70 CE by the Romans. When this exile began, many Jews were brought to Rome and sold as slaves. Other Jews came to Rome as diplomats and merchants. Some of these Jews died as gladiators and others eventually made their way to other parts of Europe. Their descendants are known today as Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jewry. However, not all Jews left Israel during the exile; after all, Jews have had a continual presence in Israel for over 3,000 years. After Islam spread to the area many of these Jews were forcibly converted and many of them are today known as Palestinians (T. Misinai “The Engagement” 73-75).

Dr. Oppenheim’s research finds scientific support for this theory. According to her findings, as many as 90 percent of Palestinians in some areas have close genetic ties to Jews and, in fact, Palestinians are genetically much closer to Ashkenazi Jews than they are to Arabs. To strengthen the theory even further, many Palestinians carry the chromosome for the priestly “Cohen” line (T. Misinai “The Engagement” 15).

Palestinian custom supports these findings as well. Members of the Sawarka tribe, located in Gaza, still hold on to forgotten Jewish traditions, such as not lighting a fire on the Jewish Sabbath and having a mikvah in their community, just like the Crypto-Jews of today in South America.

Tombstones at the Muslim cemetery of the bedouin Ta’amra tribe in Judea have grooves in them that are meant to hold candles, a Jewish tradition (T. Misinai “The Engagement” 32). The Arab Israeli village of Sakhnin in the Galilee is known to have been a Jewish town that was forcibly converted to Islam under Turkish rule. The people of the Kawazba clan in Judea have a tradition of being descended from the Jewish freedom fighter Bar-Kokhba, originally named Bar-Koziba (T. Misinai “The Engagement” 63). Ninety percent of people in the community of Yatta, near Hebron, are genetically Jewish, and based on the recorded discussions between them and their Jewish neighbors in Judea, many want to reconvert. Half of the town has a history of coming from the Makhamara clan which consisted of winemakers, a vocation strictly forbidden in Islam. Three families from the Makhamara clan in Samoa have already begun the conversion process to Judaism despite torment and threats of death directed against them (T. Misinai “The Engagement” 27).

If over fifty percent of Palestinians are in fact Jewish, could and would they really be welcomed back to the Jewish people and would they want to be? Would the organized Jewish even accept a people that may have genetic ties to Jews but who are seemingly at odds with Jewish interests politically, socially, and culturally?

Actively converting people to Judaism has become taboo only in recent Jewish history. Until just before the Roman exile, Jews actively and successfully proselytized; approximately ten percent of the Roman Empire was Jewish (Prager and Telushkin “Why The Jews” 179-192).

It was only after the Emperor began sentencing both proselytizers and converts to death that Jews implemented the law forbidding active conversion. Despite the fact that this is an outdated law created for a situation that is no longer applicable today, the law against conversion is generally already overlooked when the active conversion is towards a people who already have Jewish ancestry, which is commonly called “re-conversion.”

In the case of Palestinian Arabs with Jewish roots, “re-conversion” rather than conversion would be required, in the same way that Ethiopian Jews “re-converted” to Judaism when they settled in Israel, because while they did have Jewish ancestry, they were not halakhically Jewish, i.e. they could not definitively prove a Jewish matrilineal line. Likewise, dozens of Crypto-Jewish communities in South America are receiving support and encouragement from rabbis in their “re-conversion” process. Many Orthodox rabbis will agree that there is a custom to encourage the conversion of someone whose father is Jewish and who is interested in Judaism. Many Jewish communities around the world not only support the efforts to re-convert the hidden Jewish communities found in India and China but are also excited about it.

However, when it comes to Palestinians who not only have Jewish ancestry but are also already in the Jewish homeland, Jews often turn a blind eye to them because they have been trained to believe that Palestinians are simply “bad” and that Jews are “good,” or that Jews are superior and that Arabs are “less than,” and they should therefore not be made to live together. But Jews and these Palestinian anusim actually share the same blood, the same customs, and the same land. There is no reason why they cannot live together as equal Jewish citizens under one unified Jewish nation.

Now you may ask, what about those Palestinians who do not have Jewish ancestry or who do not want to convert? For the answer to that you will have to wait for my next article: Muslim Jews!

Misinai, Tsvi. N.p.: n.p., n.d. The Engagement. Web. 03 Jan. 2013. <http://the-
engagement.org/>.

Prager, Dennis, and Joseph Telushkin. Why The Jews? New York: Simon and Schuster,
2003. Print.

YeshAtid
09-29-2013, 09:58 AM
bump

Anglojew
09-29-2013, 10:29 AM
Yes, this realization is slowly gaining consensus. United and incorporating the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, as I propose in my Peace Plan, the Israelis' (including the Palestinians) will be prosperous, happy and peaceful.

YeshAtid
09-29-2013, 10:31 AM
Yes, this realization is slowly gaining consensus. United and incorporating the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, as I propose in my Peace Plan, the Israelis' (including the Palestinians) will be prosperous, happy and peaceful.

And funnily enough a lot of southern Italians are also converting, with some actually taking aliyah.

Anglojew
09-29-2013, 10:39 AM
And funnily enough a lot of southern Italians are also converting, with some actually taking aliyah.

Biblical prophecies are coming true and the children of Israel are returning.

CrystalMaiden
09-29-2013, 10:42 AM
Haven't loled like this in ages :lol:


Jewish people were the last, official owners of the land of Israel (having been exiled from it 2,000 years ago)

Funny how 2000 years of history just cease to exist when it comes to Jewish needs :D

YeshAtid
09-29-2013, 10:42 AM
Biblical prophecies are coming true and the children of Israel are returning.

Southern Italians are long lost tribes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAUZ53WitRA

Methmatician
09-29-2013, 10:43 AM
Biblical prophecies are coming true and the children of Israel are returning.

Now we just sit back and wait for the Messiah to return and initiate the rapture.

http://www.hireasalessuperstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/relaxing-sales-person-300x223.jpg

Gorštak
09-29-2013, 10:46 AM
I heard that opposite side also have original alternative plain, simply throw all Israel Jews in the sea.
Seems a but drastically.

Anglojew
09-29-2013, 10:47 AM
Southern Italians are long lost tribes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAUZ53WitRA

A lot are descendants of exiled Judeans from either the first century and/or Sephardi expulsion. Sicily was officially 14% Jewish at one point I read somewhere.

Anglojew
09-29-2013, 10:49 AM
Haven't loled like this in ages :lol:



Funny how 2000 years of history just cease to exist when it comes to Jewish needs :D

The land was owned by empires afterwards eg Ottomans, Byzantine, Crusaders not as an independent country.

Anglojew
09-29-2013, 10:51 AM
Now we just sit back and wait for the Messiah to return and initiate the rapture.

http://www.hireasalessuperstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/relaxing-sales-person-300x223.jpg

Yes, there's something like 32 every generation who could potentially be the messiah according to Jewish theology.

I personally think he's Ariel Sharon who will rise from his coma.

Anglojew
09-29-2013, 10:51 AM
I heard that opposite side also have original alternative plain, simply throw all Israel Jews in the sea.
Seems a but drastically.

Maybe they'll swim for Bosnia?

Gorštak
09-29-2013, 10:52 AM
Yes, there's something like 32 every generation who could potentially be the messiah according to Jewish theology.

I personally think he's Ariel Sharon who will rise from his coma.

I expect Elvis Presley to come again as Muslim angel.

CrystalMaiden
09-29-2013, 10:52 AM
The land was owned by empires afterwards eg Ottomans, Byzantine, Crusaders not as an independent country.

Independent Emirates existed for centuries in Palestine :o

Gorštak
09-29-2013, 10:53 AM
Maybe they'll swim for Bosnia?
Well, I would not mind like 200 000 Jews, but more of them would be a problem, you would take control of state lol.

CrystalMaiden
09-29-2013, 10:53 AM
I expect Elvis Presley to come again as Muslim angel.

We even have a prophecy about it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBsFj_FiCf0)

CrystalMaiden
09-29-2013, 10:55 AM
Well, I would not mind like 200 000 Jews, but more of them would be a problem, you would take control of state lol.

These 50 in Sarajevo are too much.

Gorštak
09-29-2013, 10:57 AM
These 50 in Sarajevo are too much.

We need more Jews in state.
They are educated and smart people, they can bring new energy to us.

CrystalMaiden
09-29-2013, 10:59 AM
We need more Jews in state.
They are educated and smart people, they can bring new energy to us.

Thermal energy?

ariel
09-29-2013, 11:00 AM
Independent Emirates existed for centuries in Palestine :o

never, Islamic Period[edit source]

Arab Caliphate Period (638–1099)[edit source]





8th century: Territory of the Caliphate (1926 map)
Umayyad Period (638–750)[edit source]

In 638, the conquering Muslim armies of the Caliphate (Islamic Empire) under Caliph (Emperor) Umar, the second of the initial four Rashideen Caliphs forced the Christians of Jerusalem to surrender. Islamic legend holds that Umar entered captured Jerusalem on foot.

Umar allowed seventy families from Tiberias in Galilee to move to Jerusalem to live.

In Arabic, the area approximating the Byzantine Diocese of Palaestina I in the south (roughly Judea, Philistia, and southern Jordan) was called Jund Filastin (meaning "the military district of Palestine", as a tax administrative area),[14] and the Diocese of Palaestina II in the north (roughly Samaria, Galilee, Golan, and northern Jordan) Jund al-Urdunn.

In 661, with the assassination of Ali, the last of the Rashidun Caliphs, Muawiyah I became the uncontested Caliph and founded the Ummayad Dynasty.





Palestine as described by the medieval Arab geographers. (19th century map)
After the Arabs conquered the area, waves of Bedouin garrisons began to settle there.

Period of Abbasids, Tulunids, Ikshidids, Fatimids, Seljuqs (750–1099)[edit source]

The Abbasids overthrew the Umayyads in 750.

In the 10th century, the Fatimids, a self-proclaimed Shia caliphate, took control and appointed a Jewish governor. In the next century, Seljuq Turks invaded large portions of West Asia, including Asia Minor and Palestine.





The kingdom of Jerusalem and the other Crusader states in 1135
Crusader Period (1099–1244)[edit source]

Main article: The Crusades

Kingdom of Jerusalem (1099–1187)[edit source]

Main article: Kingdom of Jerusalem

See also: History of Jerusalem (Middle Ages)

The proximate cause of the Crusades, following 1095, by the Christian European powers was the desire to reconquer the birthplace of Christianity, which had been lost to the Islamic Arab invasion of the Eastern Roman Empire in the 7th century. The Christian forces established the Kingdom of Jerusalem, in 1099. In 1187 the Kingdom of Jerusalem was overrun by Saladin who reconquered the city of Jerusalem. Although the Crusaders retained a rump state until 1291, known as the Kingdom of Acre, it was no longer a significant power in the region.

Ayyubid Period (1187–1244)[edit source]

The Ayyubid Sultanate, founded by Saladin, controlled Jerusalem and some but not all of the region until 1229 when a peace treaty between the Egyptian Sultan Al-Kamil and Frederick II saw Jerusalem and some adjacent territory returned to the crusaders. These areas were returned to Ayyubid control after the peace treaty expired in 1239. The diplomatic efforts of Thibaut of Champagne lead to these areas being returned to the crusaders but in 1244 Khwarezmians with Egyptian aid sacked Jerusalem and returned it to the Ayyubid Sultanate. After the defeat of the Ayyubid Sultanate in 1250 this region became part of the Mamluk Sultanate of Egypt.

Mamluk Period (1244–1517)[edit source]

After the Mongols decimated Baghdad and Damascus in the mid-13th century, the center of Islamic power moved to Cairo, under the Egyptian slave warriors, the Mamluks. They destroyed all towns on the flat coastal plains in order to rid the land of the Crusader presence and make sure it never returned. The main exceptions were Jaffa, Gaza, Lydda and Ramle. The last major Crusader stronghold, Acre fell in 1291, at the Siege of Acre.

In the late 13th century, Palestine and Syria were the primary front for battles between the Egyptian Mamluks and the Mongol Empire. The pivotal battle was the Battle of Ain Jalut in 1260, when the Mamluks, after having brokered a cautious neutrality with the Crusaders (who regarded the Mongols as a greater threat), were able to advance northwards and achieve a decisive victory over the Mongols at Ain Jalut, near Galilee. The Mongols were, however, able to engage into some brief Mongol raids into Palestine in 1260 and 1300, reaching as far as Gaza.

Due to the many earthquakes, the religious extremism and the black plague that hit during this era, the population dwindled to around 200,000. It is during this period that the land began to have a Levantine Muslim majority and even in the traditional Jewish stronghold of Eastern Galilee, a new Jewish-Muslim culture began to develop.[citation needed]

The Mamluk Sultanate ultimately became a vassal state of the Ottoman Empire, in the wake of campaigns waged by Selim I in the 16th century.

Ottoman Period (1517-1917)[edit source]





The Ottoman empire from 1481 to 1683, in a 1923 map.
In 1516 the Ottoman Turks occupied Palestine.[15] The country became part of the Ottoman Empire. Constantinople appointed local governors. Public works, including the city walls, were rebuilt in Jerusalem by Suleiman the Magnificent in 1537. An area around Tiberias was given to Don Joseph Nasi for a Jewish enclave. Following the expulsions from Spain, the Jewish population of Palestine rose to around 25% (includes non-Ottoman citizens, excludes Bedouin) and regained its former stronghold of Eastern Galilee. That ended in 1660 when they were massacred at Safed and Jerusalem. During the reign of Dahar al Omar, Pasha of the Galilee, Jews from Ukraine began to resettle Tiberias.

Napoleon of France briefly waged war against the Ottoman Empire (allied then with Great Britain). His forces conquered and occupied cities in Palestine, but they were finally defeated and driven out by 1801. In 1799 Napoleon issued a proclamation to the Jews of Asia and Africa to help him conquer Jerusalem which was mostly to curry favour with Haim Farkhi the Jewish finance minister and adviser to the Pasha of Syria/Palestine[citation needed]. He was later assassinated and his brothers formed an army with Ottoman permission to conquer the Galilee[citation needed]. Turkish rule lasted until World War I.

Jewish immigration to Palestine, particularly to the "four sacred cities" (Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Hebron) which already had significant Jewish communities, increased particularly towards the end of Ottoman rule; Jews of European origin lived mostly on charity while many Sephardic Jews found themselves a trade. Many Circassians and Bosnian Muslims were settled in the north of Palestine by the Ottomans in the early 19th century. In the 1830s Egypt conquered Palestine and many Egyptians soldiers settled there. In 1838 Palestine was given back to the Turks. However, with the advent of early Zionism, just prior to the outbreak of World War I in 1914, the Jews had become a small majority in the central Judea region. Many were not Ottoman citizens and were expelled to Egypt at the time that war was declared


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Southern_Levant
ISRAEL NEVER WERE PART OF INDEPENDENT PALESTINIAN STATE .

BTW PALESTINIANS ARE NOT ,ORIGINAL JEWS, BUT BEDOUINS AND NORTH AFRICANS IMMIGRANTS

Between the years 1922—1944, the population of Bet Dajan grew by 127%, that of Yazour grew by 214%, Salame’s population grew by 476%, Yabne’s population grew by 203%, the population of Kubeiba (near Rehovot) grew by 211%, in Fajjah the increase reached 630%, while Sawalme holds the record population growth: 1040%. Similar figures were recorded for the rest of the Arabic villages in the southern and central coastal plains

http://www.rslissak.com/content/are-palestinians-indigenous-people-palestine-drrivka-shpak-lissak

GENETIC PROVE TO THESE CLAIMS

The plots reveal a Levantine structure not reported previously: Lebanese Christians and all Druze cluster together, and Lebanese Muslims are extended towards Syrians, Palestinians, and Jordanians, which are close to Saudis and Bedouins


http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?86349-Palestinians-Are-Terrorists-Newt-Gingrich&p=1734171#post1734171

YeshAtid
09-29-2013, 11:34 AM
It was never independent in other words