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ariel
09-29-2013, 09:20 AM
South African parliament member and clergyman refutes "lies" of anti-Israel movement who "minimize the pain of apartheid."

After participating in a two-day conference held in Jerusalem last week, Reverend Kenneth Meshoe, a member of the Parliament of South Africa and founder of the African Christian Democratic Party (ACDP), vocalized why calling Israel an apartheid state actually "minimizes the pain of apartheid."

Meshoe, along with 25 other international members of parliament, is one of the chairmen of the Israel Allies Caucuses, which represent hundreds of members of Congress and Parliament around the world. Under the Israel Allies Foundation (IAF), these caucuses coordinate international activity on Israel-related issues.

During the two-day conference held by the IAF, the lawmakers discussed ways to strengthen Israel and specifically addressed the recent European boycott of Israeli products and academia in Judea and Samaria and Jerusalem.

In addressing some of the challenges that Israel faces, Reverend Meshoe focused on accusations of apartheid often hurled at the Jewish state by anti-Israel activists.

"Anyone who knows what apartheid really is and still makes such a claim [about Israel] should be told to their faces that they are lying," Meshoe insisted.

"If [what happened] in South Africa," Meshoe continued, "was the same as what's happening in Israel, then definitely there would not have been any need for an armed struggle [in South Africa]."

He explained that there was an armed struggle because South Africans were denied basic rights such as the right to vote. Arab-Israelis, Meshoe noted, do not struggle with the right to vote and have the choice to go to the schools and hospitals of their choice.

"Apartheid was very painful," Meshoe recalls, "anyone who claims Israel is an apartheid state is actually minimizing the pain of apartheid."


Meshoe stated that the claims about apartheid Israel need to be challenged head-on.

"Many of them are just good at intimidation, but they cannot reason. If you have to reason, fact-for-fact, then they cannot reason because they know in their own hearts that there is no apartheid in Israel."

The reverend has been previously quoted as saying, “I was born in South Africa 59 years ago and I lived through Apartheid. I can assure you, Israel is no Apartheid state.”


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/172282#.UkfwZyNBSUk

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 09:32 AM
Still segregation tho

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 09:33 AM
Still segregation tho

in what way ?

can you give ONE example which would prove that Israeli arabs are somehow being officially discriminated ?

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 09:42 AM
in what way ?

can you give ONE example which would prove that Israeli arabs are somehow being officially discriminated ?

I didn't say anything about Arabs

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/23/the-banality-of-racism-in-israel-s-most-liberal-city.html

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 09:45 AM
I didn't say anything about Arabs

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/23/the-banality-of-racism-in-israel-s-most-liberal-city.html

its children of illegal immigrants who are currently being deported, they brought many exotic diseases with them and will lower the standard of schooling in any school they may be sent to.

hell, the entire country is being vaccinated against Polio thanks to these kids.

Considering they wont stay in Israel anyway, its a good idea to keep them away from the rest.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 09:50 AM
its children of illegal immigrants who are currently being deported, they brought many exotic diseases with them and will lower the standard of schooling in any school they may be sent to.

hell, the entire country is being vaccinated against Polio thanks to these kids.

Considering they wont stay in Israel anyway, its a good idea to keep them away from the rest.

They are referring to the Falasha Mura and Beta Israel as well


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html

Forced sterilization of Ethiopian Jewish Women

Windischer
09-29-2013, 09:59 AM
is segregation (in general meaning) a responsibility of state? no.

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 10:00 AM
They are referring to the Falasha Mura and Beta Israel as well


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html

Forced sterilization of Ethiopian Jewish Women

temporary inability to get offspring does not equal sterilization

there was a topic about this recently.

they were reproducing like rabbits without adapting to the new environment. It was a good idea to do something about it.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 10:09 AM
temporary inability to get offspring does not equal sterilization

there was a topic about this recently.

they were reproducing like rabbits without adapting to the new environment. It was a good idea to do something about it.

It is eugenics being used on a unknowing population of Jews.

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Ethiopians-protest-racism-in-Kiryat-Malachi

Refusing to sale or rent to Ethiopian Jews in Kiryat

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 10:11 AM
It is eugenics being used on a unknowing population of Jews.

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Ethiopians-protest-racism-in-Kiryat-Malachi

Refusing to sale or rent to Ethiopian Jews in Kiryat

so ? some people refuse to sell or to rent to someone. its a common practice, personally I wouldnt want to rent my place to someone who just came from a very inferior environment or doesnt have a stable income.

Ethiopian jews used to plant vegetables in toilet and bath, how can you rent them your apartment ? Not all of them likely, but there are many stories about that.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 10:13 AM
I gave you examples of segregation, take them as you will.

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 10:19 AM
I gave you examples of segregation, take them as you will.

this is not the reason why idiots call Israel a apartheid state, the reason is that Israeli arabs have more rights than anywhere in the region, and apparently its not to the liking of some people.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 10:22 AM
this is not the reason why idiots call Israel a apartheid state, the reason is that Israeli arabs have more rights than anywhere in the region, and apparently its not to the liking of some people.

It is a segregated society of seperate and unequal people with Ashkenazi Supremacists funded and supported by ultra right American lobbyist groups and politicians.

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 10:24 AM
It is a segregated society of seperate and unequal people with Ashkenazi Supremacists funded and supported by ultra right American lobbyist groups and politicians.

I dont agree.

As mizrahi or sephardi one can easily make it to the top given the proper dedication and desire to succeed.

It's all about desire and dedication to succeed, and not about one's background.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 10:28 AM
I dont agree.

As mizrahi or sephardi one can easily make it to the top given the proper dedication and desire to succeed.

It's all about desire and dedication to succeed, and not about one's background.

Please, the Ashkenazi leadership has only recently treated Shephardic Jews with parity whereas former Soviet, Mizarahi, Yemenite and Ethiopian Jews duke it out for the scrapes.

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 10:31 AM
Please, the Ashkenazi leadership has only recently treated Shephardic Jews with parity whereas former Soviet, Mizarahi, Yemenite and Ethiopian Jews duke it out for the scrapes.

Soviet jews arrived in 1989-1992 and were being treated as somewhat inferior, but now that they adapted to the new life, many of them made it to the top.

My point is: you cant expect the society to treat new immigrants as equals.

Are Mexicans treated as equal in the US when they dont speak english and are "trashy" ? I doubt it. However integrated Mexicans probably get proper treatment.

Using your logic one can prove that any country is an "apartheid state". Especially the US with its large negro/mexicans etc problem.

ariel
09-29-2013, 10:32 AM
Please, the Ashkenazi leadership has only recently treated Shephardic Jews with parity whereas former Soviet, Mizarahi, Yemenite and Ethiopian Jews duke it out for the scrapes.

you care about sephardic or mizrahi jews? no

you only want attacking israel.

you are hypocrIte

YeshAtid
09-29-2013, 10:33 AM
you care about sephardic or mizrahi jews? no

you only want attacking israel.

you are hypocrIte

He's actually a reform Jew

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 10:34 AM
you care about sephardic or mizrahi jews? no

you only want attacking israel.

you are hypocrIte

he is a hypocrite since his logic can be used for any country.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 10:34 AM
He's actually a reform Jew

Fucking thank you!

YeshAtid
09-29-2013, 10:35 AM
Fucking thank you!

though i disagree with you
are you a giyur?

ariel
09-29-2013, 10:36 AM
Fucking thank you!

SO WHAT?

you still using the same tactic of the muslims and other enemies of israel.and im not ashkenazi btw.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 10:39 AM
though i disagree with you
are you a giyur?

Yep, but I was raised in a Zionist Christian household. I was originally planning on being Modern Orthodox but after being called Schwartz and Kushi directly at me at by orthodox people I said fuck it and joined a reform Shul.

YeshAtid
09-29-2013, 10:44 AM
Yep, but I was raised in a Zionist Christian household. I was originally planning on being Modern Orthodox but after being called Schwartz and Kushi directly at me at by orthodox people I said fuck it and joined a reform Shul.

have you been to Israel ?

ariel
09-29-2013, 10:44 AM
Yep, but I was raised in a Zionist Christian household. I was originally planning on being Modern Orthodox but after being called Schwartz and Kushi directly at me at by orthodox people I said fuck it and joined a reform Shul.

orthodox jews are idiots nobody like them even in israel. they just fanatic religious. dont take them seriouslly.this not reasone to attack whole country.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 10:45 AM
SO WHAT?

you still using the same tactic of the muslims and other enemies of israel.and im not ashkenazi btw.

I don't believe that Israel has a right to exist so long as any Jewish group is treated as second class citizens nor do I believe Israel should exist so long as its Knesset is used by American Christian Fundmentalists to fulfill some Messanic Prophecy.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 10:46 AM
have you been to Israel ?

I refuse to go.

YeshAtid
09-29-2013, 10:46 AM
I don't believe that Israel has a right to exist so long as any Jewish group is treated as second class citizens nor do I believe Israel should exist so long as its Knesset is used by American Christian Fundmentalists to fulfill some Messanic Prophecy.

They're a minority

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 10:48 AM
They're a minority

A powerful minority at that and even then that American money has infiltrated every aspect of Israeli governance and ruling.

ariel
09-29-2013, 10:48 AM
I don't believe that Israel has a right to exist so long as any Jewish group is treated as second class citizens nor do I believe Israel should exist so long as its Knesset is used by American Christian Fundmentalists to fulfill some Messanic Prophecy.

you are weird person. so you prefer jihadistic islamistics?

if israel stop existing so you get here al qaeda state.

ariel
09-29-2013, 10:49 AM
A powerful minority at that and even then that American money has infiltrated every aspect of Israeli governance and ruling.

they not even part of the new government.they not powerfull anymore...

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 10:50 AM
I don't believe that Israel has a right to exist so long as any Jewish group is treated as second class citizens nor do I believe Israel should exist so long as its Knesset is used by American Christian Fundmentalists to fulfill some Messanic Prophecy.

:rolleyes:

I dont believe the US has to the right to exist on land which was stolen from native Americans/Mexicans.
I dont believe the US has the right to exist for as long as there is racism in it.

:rolleyes:

ariel
09-29-2013, 10:52 AM
:rolleyes:

I dont believe the US has to the right to exist on land which was stolen from native Americans/Mexicans.
I dont believe the US has the right to exist for as long as there is racism in it.

:rolleyes:

:thumb001:

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 10:57 AM
:rolleyes:

I dont believe the US has to the right to exist on land which was stolen from native Americans/Mexicans.
I dont believe the US has the right to exist for as long as there is racism in it.

:rolleyes:

I agree

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 10:59 AM
you are weird person. so you prefer jihadistic islamistics?

if israel stop existing so you get here al qaeda state.

The origin of the extremism lies in the colonization by British forces and I hate to say it settler kibbutizniks seizing land from muslim and christian Arabs. It was reactionary because before Jews had lived there with Arabs with little issue.

ariel
09-29-2013, 11:05 AM
The origin of the extremism lies in the colonization by British forces and I hate to say it settler kibbutizniks seizing land from muslim and christian Arabs. It was reactionary because before Jews had lived there with Arabs with little issue.

do you know how these palestinian muslims who are not even natives to this land btw treating toward the christians ?

Op-Ed: Muslims Drive out Christians from PA Territories


Interview Series: International human rights lawyerJustus Reid Weiner: "They flee to almost any country that will issue them a visa."



"The disputed territories of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have been administered by the Palestinian Authority (PA) and in more recent years, in part, by Hamas. Under these regimes, the resident Christian Arabs have been victims of frequent human rights abuses including intimidation, beatings, land theft, firebombing of churches and other Christian institutions, denial of employment, economic boycott, torture, kidnapping, forced marriage, sexual harassment, and extortion.

"Muslims who have converted to Christianity are the ones in the greatest in danger. They are often left defenseless against cruelty by Muslim fundamentalists. PA and Hamas officials are directly responsible for many of the human rights violations. Christian Arabs also fall victim to the semi-anarchy that typifies PA rule."

Justus Reid Weiner is an international human rights lawyer and a member of the Israel and New York Bar Associations. His professional publications have appeared in leading law journals and intellectual magazines. Weiner lectures widely abroad and in Israel and teaches international law and business courses at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

In Weiner's view, the crimes committed against Christian Arabs result from a way of thinking that dates back to the earliest days of Islam. "Traditionally, Christians and Jews were given an inferior social status known as dhimmitude in Islam. To this day, Muslim attitudes toward Christians and Jews are influenced by the concepts and prejudices that dhimmitude has spawned in Islamic society. The widespread persecution of Christians in various Muslim dominated lands brings many proofs of this.[1]

"Israel is the only exception in the Middle East where the Christian population since 1948 has increased. It has risen by more than 400 percent. This also includes non-Arab Christians, such as Russian Christians who have moved to Israel as spouses of Jews.

"As dhimmis, Christians living in Palestinian-controlled territories are subjected to debilitating legal, political, cultural, and religious restrictions. Muslim groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad have built a culture of hatred upon the age-old foundations of Islamic society. Moreover, the PA has adopted Islamic law into its draft constitution.

"In such an environment, Christian Arabs have found themselves victims of prejudice and hate crimes. Tens of thousands of Palestinian Christians have left their ancestral homes and emigrated. They flee to almost any country that will issue them a visa.

"The demographics in the Palestinian areas have changed drastically. In Bethlehem, the Christian population was an 80 percent majority in 1950. Today the population of Christian Arabs in Bethlehem is hovering at about 15 percent of the city's total population. Neither the Palestinian Christian leaders nor the PA want to reveal accurate statistics. That would mean the extent of the emigration would become publicly known. They would then have to face questions about the reasons for this decline."


Weiner points out that Yasser Arafat determined the policy that led to this demographic shift. "After the PA gained control of Bethlehem, it redistricted the municipal boundaries of the city. Arafat also defied tradition by appointing a Muslim governor of the city. The Bethlehem City Council, which by Palestinian law must have a Christian majority, has been taken over by Muslims. Eight of the fifteen seats on the Council are still reserved for Christians, but Hamas controls the City Council with some Christian allies. Arafat crowned his efforts when he converted the Greek Orthodox monastery next to the Church of Nativity into his official Bethlehem residence.[2]

"The problems for Christians in Bethlehem are typical throughout the Middle East. As in Palestinian society, Christian Arabs have no voice and no protection. It is no wonder they have been leaving. Because of emigration – some of it dating back two or three generations – seventy percent of Christian Arabs who originally resided in the West Bank and Gaza now live abroad. Tens of thousands live in Sydney, Berlin, Santiago, Detroit, and Toronto. The emigration of Christian Arabs has multiplied over the last decade, with no end in sight.

"It is currently estimated that the number of Christians living in Gaza totals only 1,500-3,000 amid 1.2 million Muslims.[3] Probably less than fifty thousand Christians remain in all of East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza together.”

Weiner concludes: "The human rights crimes against the Christian Arabs in the disputed territories are committed by Muslims. Yet many Palestinian Christian leaders accuse Israel of these crimes rather than the actual perpetrators. These patriarchs and archbishops of Christian Arab denominations obfuscate the truth and put their own people in danger. This is often for personal benefit or due to intimidation. This motif has been adopted by a variety of Christian leaders in the Western world. Others who are aware of the human rights crimes choose to remain silent about them."

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/11000#.Uj3yDCNBSUk

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 11:07 AM
Palestinians share a very close genetic relationship to Jews, so I don't know who lied to you :-/

ariel
09-29-2013, 11:07 AM
Father Gabriel Nadaf: We’re Christians….Not Christians Arabs

Israeli Christians should not be classified as Arabs, since the historical ethnic background of Christians in Israel is a mix of Jewish, Greek, Roman, Assyrian & other such peoples all of whom were here long before the Arab Muslims showed up.

Father Gabriel Nadaf, a Greek Orthodox priest from the area of Nazareth, continues to make headlines in the Israeli press for advocating a new alliance between local Jews and Christians in service to the State of Israel.



In an interview with Israeli website News1, Nadaf said that Christians are tired of living as dhimmis (second-class citizens) in the Muslim world, and are starting to understand that the Jewish state is their ticket out of that situation.

But Israel itself has been holding these Christians back, even if unwittingly.


According to Nadaf, Israel needs to stop classifying local Christians as “Arabs.” As he explained to News1, the historical ethnic background of Christians in Israel is a mix of Jewish, Greek, Roman, Assyrian and other such peoples all of whom were here long before the Arab Muslims showed up.

It is true that in the early decades of Israel’s rebirth a majority of local Christians threw their lot in with the Muslims, fearing the Jews didn’t stand a chance, and that the Christians would be punished as collaborators after Israel was defeated.

But that is all changing, and more and more Christians are openly identifying themselves with Israel, or as allies of Israel.

Take for instance the former South Lebanese Army (SLA), a powerful Christian militia that fought alongside the Israeli army during its years in Lebanon. Nadaf said that Israel’s abandonment of the SLA when it abruptly pulled out of Lebanon in 2000 was representative of its second major error when it comes to dealing with local Christians.

Israel has proved that Islam is not all powerful in this region, and can be defeated. And Israel has allies in this cause in the Christian communities across the Middle East. But Israel must inspire confidence in the Christians by standing unwaveringly at their side against the Muslim threat.

http://www.israelandstuff.com/father-gabriel-nadaf-were-christains-not-christain-arabs

ariel
09-29-2013, 11:09 AM
Palestinians share a very close genetic relationship to Jews, so I don't know who lied to you :-/

lol

no they dont, they even not cluster to thier christians neighbors


The plots reveal a Levantine structure not reported previously: Lebanese Christians and all Druze cluster together, and Lebanese Muslims are extended towards Syrians, Palestinians, and Jordanians, which are close to Saudis and Bedouins

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?86349-Palestinians-Are-Terrorists-Newt-Gingrich&p=1734171#post1734171

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 11:11 AM
If you do not actively solicited, remediate, and supplicate the non-Jewish population any other plan is merely just buying time before massive bloodshed erupts.

ariel
09-29-2013, 11:14 AM
If you do not actively solicited, remediate, and supplicate the non-Jewish population any other plan is merely just buying time before massive bloodshed erupts.

you can not make peace with these barbarians, they killing each other everywhere, they have not peace with each others so you really think they can make peace with us?

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 11:19 AM
you can not make peace with these barbarians, they killing each other everywhere, they have not peace with each others so you really think they can make peace with us?

So long as the Israel has America as a strong arm there can be no peace, if the US was not back the military Israel would be very quick to make a peace talk

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 11:20 AM
KidMulat: your topic about "Israeli apartheid" comes down to basic racism, which exists in every society.
Yet your topic is not about "worldwide racism problem" but about Israel being an apartheid state.

So you take something that exists everywhere and use it to bash Israel and jews. That's basic antisemitism.

Antisemitism is seeing deeds of jews through the negative light only. And you do.

you are a hypocrite wanker.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 11:30 AM
KidMulat: your topic about "Israeli apartheid" comes down to basic racism, which exists in every society.
Yet your topic is not about "worldwide racism problem" but about Israel being an apartheid state.

So you take something that exists everywhere and use it to bash Israel and jews. That's basic antisemitism.

Antisemitism is seeing deeds of jews through the negative light only. And you do.

you are a hypocrite wanker.

It goes beyond racism Acquistor it is the complete disregard and invalidation of non-Ashkenazi Jews within Ha'Aretz HaMuvtahat and dismantling of any form of Judaism deemed inauthentic by a Ashkenazi religious court.

I do not believe that the current state of Israel as a valid government for the Global Jewish Community and find the discrimination and atrocities done on Palestinians a travesty that goes against my core belief of Tikkun Olam.

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 11:32 AM
It goes beyond racism Acquistor it is the complete disregard and invalidation of non-Ashkenazi Jews within Ha'Aretz HaMuvtahat and dismantling of any form of Judaism deemed inauthentic by a Ashkenazi religious court.

Please, personally I'd like to see every form of Judaism being dismantled. Israel without religion would be a much better Israel.


I do not believe that the current state of Israel as a valid government for the Global Jewish Community and find the discrimination and atrocities done on Palestinians a travesty that goes against my core belief of Tikkun Olam.


why should the current state of Israel be regarded as a valid government for the global jewish community ?

Personally there is only one governor for me, and its .. me.

ariel
09-29-2013, 11:36 AM
kidmulat israel is the only democratic country in the middle east.the only country who the christians not get killed in terror attacks or pogroms. so grow up and see the reality, israel is normal country, nobody is perfect, but still israel is better than any arab or islamic country. if you want to change the world, please strat with the muslim worls.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 11:37 AM
Please, personally I'd like to see every form of Judaism being dismantled. Israel without religion would be a much better Israel.



why should the current state of Israel be regarded as a valid government for the global jewish community ?

Personally there is only one governor for me, and its .. me.

The United Nations General Assembly's resolution



On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable...

This right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign State.

Thus members and representatives of the Jews of Palestine and of the Zionist movement upon the end of the British Mandate, by virtue of natural and historic right and based on the United Nations resolution.... Hereby declare the establishment of a Jewish state in the land of Israel to be known as the State of Israel.

... Israel will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.


Because that was what Israel was supposed to be but it is not such.

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 11:40 AM
The United Nations General Assembly's resolution



Because that was what Israel was supposed to be but it is not such.

I told you: racism exists everywhere, but those with ambitions can easily escape it.

Here in Belgium many locals see immigrants from Turkey/Morocco and the rest of Africa as inferior. Yet many of these immigrants manage to make it to the top, meaning that the society allows them to make it to the top.

you are obsessed it seems, and unable to think rationally, reminds me of Prussiarussia.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 11:51 AM
I told you: racism exists everywhere, but those with ambitions can easily escape it.

Here in Belgium many locals see immigrants from Turkey/Morocco and the rest of Africa as inferior. Yet many of these immigrants manage to make it to the top, meaning that the society allows them to make it to the top.

you are obsessed it seems, and unable to think rationally, reminds me of Prussiarussia.

It believe in the resolution drafted for the creation of the State of Israel is valid in its desire to house and foster the traditions and beliefs of the Jewish People as such the discrimination of minority Jewish communities at the hands of Ashkenazis is going against the foundation laid by the Israeli constitution.

It is not exclusively racism what I am talking about, this is invalidating the Jewish people and nation for the select Ashkenazi minority.

I am not obsessed I just needed to study for a long time as much as I could about Judaism and Israel because folks constantly challenged my Jewishness even though that is a mitzvot.

Acquisitor
09-29-2013, 11:54 AM
It believe in the resolution drafted for the creation of the State of Israel is valid in its desire to house and foster the traditions and beliefs of the Jewish People as such the discrimination of minority Jewish communities at the hands of Ashkenazis is going against the foundation laid by the Israeli constitution.

It is not exclusively racism what I am talking about, this is invalidating the Jewish people and nation for a select minority.

I am not obsessed I just needed to study for a long time as much as I could about Judaism and Israel because folks constantly challenged my Jewishness even though that is a mitzvot.

the resolution is one thing, human nature is something else

Im done with this topic.

KidMulat
09-29-2013, 11:57 AM
the resolution is one thing, human nature is something else

Im done with this topic.

Deuces

YeshAtid
10-29-2013, 02:45 PM
Deuces

:picard2:

Herbalist
10-29-2013, 03:05 PM
The Israelis learned it from South Africa, they were allies. The South Africans learned it from Canada.

All three are different flavours of the same thing.

KidMulat
10-30-2013, 08:39 PM
http://youtu.be/dPxv4Aff3IA

Xyresic
11-03-2013, 12:57 PM
I've never heard of Reverend Kenneth Meshoe. Who the hell is he?

I've heard of the Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu who is easily the second most famous Black South African after Nelson Mandela.

This is what he has had to say:


Desmond Tutu Likens Israeli Actions to Apartheid

BOSTON - South African Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu compared conditions in Palestine to those of South Africa under apartheid, and called on Israelis to try and change them, while speaking in Boston Saturday at historic Old South Church."We hope the occupation of the Palestinian territory by Israel will end," Tutu said.

"There is a cry of anguish from the depth of my heart, to my spiritual relatives. Please, please hear the call, the noble call of our scripture," Tutu said of Israelis.

"Don't be found fighting against this god, your god, our god, who hears the cry of the oppressed," Tutu said.

Tutu spoke with political activist and lecturer Noam Chomsky and others to a largely religious audience about "The Apartheid Paradigm in Palestine-Israel," a conference sponsored by Friends of Sabeel North America, a Christian Palestinian group.

Israeli policy toward Palestine is an inflammatory topic in the U.S. and is not commonly discussed in large, public forums.

In Boston, complaints were lodged with Old South Church in the weeks prior to the event, in an effort to halt the conference. The Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting complained that Sabeel is "an anti-Zionist organisation that traffics in anti-Judaic themes," according to press reports.

Outside the church Saturday, Christians and Jews United for Israel demonstrated against Tutu and the conference.

"Sabeel is an organisation that seeks to demonise Israel. Tutu several years ago made anti-Semitic comments," May Long, president of the group, told IPS. Long did not hear Tutu's speech, she said.

Tutu was an inspirational leader in the South African fight against apartheid, which officially ended 13 years ago. He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984 and today continues to speak around the globe for peace and justice, and to call for Palestinian rights.

The 76-year-old Tutu also appears to have won a battle against prostate cancer, which he was last treated for in 2000.

"Because of what I experienced in South Africa, I harbour hope for Israel and the Palestinian territories," said Tutu, who invoked passages from the Christian bible throughout his talk.

Tutu drew parallels between the apartheid of South Africa and occupied Palestine of today, including demolitions of Palestinian homes by the Israeli government and the inability of Palestinians to travel freely within and out of Palestine.

"I experienced a déjàvu when I encountered a security checkpoint that Palestinians must negotiate every day and be demeaned, all their lives," Tutu said.

Tutu said that Palestinian homes are being bulldozed, and new, illegal homes for Israeli's built in their place.

"When I hear, 'that used to be my home,' it is painfully similar to the treatment in South Africa when coloureds had no rights," Tutu said.

Tutu is a pacifist and he said only non-violent means should be used to confront the oppression at play in Palestine.

"Palestinians ought to try themselves to restrain those who fire the rockets into Israeli territory," Tutu said.

Tutu said that while fighting apartheid in South Africa he drew inspiration from the Jewish struggle as the bible describes it.

"Spiritually I am of Hebrew decent. When apartheid oppression was at its most vicious, and all but knocked the stuffing out of those of us who opposed it, we turned to the Hebrew tradition of resistance," and the belief that good will triumph over evil, and that a day of freedom from oppression will come, he said.

"The well-to-do and powerful complain that we are mixing religion with politics. I've never heard the poor complain that 'Tutu, you are being too political,"' he said.

"I am not playing politics when it involves children who suffer," Tutu said. "A human rights violation is a human rights violation is a human rights violation, wherever it occurs."

Tutu recently bumped up against U.S. discomfort with discourse about Palestine, when a Minnesota university president yanked an invitation to Tutu that had been extended by a youth group.

Rev. Dennis Dease, president of the University of St. Thomas, in St. Paul Minnesota, said he did not want Tutu to speak because the Nobel Laureate's position on Palestine was viewed by some as anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic.

Dease also fired Cris Toffolo as head of the university's peace and justice programme, who had supported the invitation to Tutu.

Dease apologised to Tutu three weeks ago.

Tutu said Saturday that he accepted Dease's "handsome apology", but that he will not consider speaking at the school until Toffolo is reinstated and her record cleared.

At the conference, Chomsky said the U.S. provides heavy financial support to Israel and has a profound influence on Israeli policies, including those toward Palestine and foreign trade.

"If the U.S. doesn't like what Israel is doing, it just kicks Israel in the face," Chomsky said. In 2005, Israel wanted to sell improved missiles to China. The Bush administration halted the sale, Chomsky said.

"It blocked them and refused to allow Israeli officials to come to the U.S. The U.S. demanded an apology from Israel. It dragged Israel through the mud," Chomsky said.

The U.S. began its close relationship with Israel after the Israeli victory in the 1967 "Six Day War" against Egypt, Syria and Jordan, Chomsky said.

https://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/29/4872


Tutu condemns Israeli 'apartheid'

South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu has accused Israel of practising apartheid in its policies towards the Palestinians.
The Nobel peace laureate said he was "very deeply distressed" by a visit to the Holy Land, adding that "it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa".

In a speech in the United States, carried in the UK's Guardian newspaper, Archbishop Tutu said he saw "the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about".

The archbishop, who was a leading opponent of apartheid in South Africa, said Israel would "never get true security and safety through oppressing another people".

Archbishop Tutu said his criticism of the Israeli Government did not mean he was anti-Semitic.

"I am not even anti-white, despite the madness of that group," he said.

Jewish lobby

The archbishop attacked the political power of Jewish groups in the United States, saying: "People are scared in this country, to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful - very powerful. Well, so what?

"The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists.

"Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust," he said.

Speaking at a conference called Ending the Oppression in Boston, Archbishop Tutu told delegates Jewish people had been at the forefront of the struggle against apartheid in South Africa.

He asked: "Have our Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they forgotten the collective punishment, the home demolitions, in their own history so soon?

"Have they turned their backs on their profound and noble religious traditions?"

The archbishop said that while he condemned suicide bombings by Palestinian militants against Israel, Israeli military action would not bring security to the Jewish state.

Israel must "strive for peace based on justice, based on withdrawal from all the occupied territories, and the establishment of a viable Palestinian state on those territories side by side with Israel, both with secure borders," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/1957644.stm

And of course more recently:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?82661-Former-Archbishop-Desmond-Tutu-urges-UEFA-to-strip-Israel-of-under-21-championship