Does The Origin Of Haplogroup U5b2c Lie In Upper Paleolithic/Mesolithic Iberia?

[Black Wolf]

Is it likely that the origins of the U5b2c subclade of U5 lie in Upper Paleolithic/Mesolithic Iberia? U5b2c seems to have a very Western European type of distribution. It's two subclades U5b2c1 and U5b2c2 seem to pretty much all be found among maternal lines that have West European origins. Adding to this we have the fact that the La Brana samples from Mesolithic Spain also belong to the U5b2c1 subclade. What do others think about this?

[Fire Haired]

I don't really know you can look at Mesolithic (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?96555-Mesloithic-DNA) and Palaeolithic (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?96556-Palaeolithic-DNA) DNA U5b2 has been found in Germany(9,200ybp, and8,700ybp), U5b2? in Lithuania (8,350ybp and 6,460ybp), U5b2c1 in the La Brana's in northern Spain 7,000ybp. Also U5b2b1 in Late Epi-Gravettian Continenza, Italy from 14,000-8,000ybp. So obviously U5b2 was very spread out and popular in Europe from probably at least 15,000-10,000ybp. According to FTDNA U5b2 is estimated to be 20,000 years old and that it was in a southern Refuge during the LGM which lasted from about 26,600-19,000ybp then spread after. That could explain why Mesolithic and Neolithic European hunter gathers mtDNA overall no matter were they are from is so similar because their ancestors left southern refuges and mixed and repopulated central and northern Europe.

But I noticed that almost all central and western European Mesolithic U5 is under U5b unlike later U5 subclades in Neolithic, copper, bronze, and iron age but not nearly enough samples to make bug conclusions. But Russian and Scandinavian Mesolithic U5 is almost all under U5a mainly U5a1 just like Indo Iranian and Tocherian DNA (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?96539-Indo-Iranian-and-Tocheiran-DNA). So Mesolithic and Neolithic European hunter gathers show total continuity with much earlier Palaeolithic Europeans on at least the maternal side. And I explained on Palaeolithic DNA (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?96556-Palaeolithic-DNA) they probably did not change on the paternal side or in austomal DNA. North Euro in globe13 without a doubt originated in Palaeolithic Europe and I think combined with mtDNA of Mesolithic and Palaeolithic Europeans shows Europe was colonized similar to north and south America.

The earliest settlers all came from a similar ancestry and mixed and eventfully became very spread out and kind of formed their own ethnicity. It is hard to explain but Native Americans all come from the same families that arrived in north America with the earliest human settlement 20,000-30,000ybp austomal dna, y dna, and mtdna has shown this and there is mtDNA and Y DNA in north America from the Palaeolithic age to prove it. I think it is the same for Mesolithic Europeans and Palaeolithic Europeans modern Europeans though have more non European admixture because of mainly inter marriage with near easterns since Neolithic age. But modern Europeans still mainly descend from that ethnicity and I think European palness compared to other Caucasians is evidence that.

[Caismeachd]

I've read somewhere U5 spread from Italy but I haven't seen very many sources of it's origin because of how widespread it is.

[Black Wolf]

Indeed now it does seem very likely that U5b2c originated probably in an Iberian or Franco-Cantabrian ice age refugium and then spread out after the LGM to colonize other areas of Western Europe. Basically U5b2c individuals seem to be dir4ct maternal line descendants of post-LGM Atlantic hunter-gatherers. The fact that La Brana man who was a Mesolithic hunter-gatherer is also U5b2c (U5b2c1) adds to this greatly.

[Black Wolf]

It is probably safe now to describe U5b2c as a Mesolithic Atlantic European haplogroup.