Indo-Europeans were originaly mongols

[robar]

From dienekes blog:

Ancient Mitochondrial DNA From Pre-historic Southeastern Europe: The Presence of East Eurasian Haplogroups Provides Evidence of Interactions with South Siberians Across the Central Asian Steppe Belt
Jeremy R. Newton, Grand Valley State University

Studies of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) polymorphism have provided valuable insights for understanding patterns of human migration and interaction. The ability to recover ancient mtDNA sequence data from post-mortem bone and tissue samples allows us to view snapshots of historic gene pools firsthand, provided that great care is taken to prevent sample contamination. In this study, we analyzed the DNA sequence of the first hypervariable segment (HVSI) of the mtDNA control region, as well as a portion of the coding region, in 14 individuals from three collective burials from the Neolithic Dnieper-Donetz culture and three individuals from Bronze Age Kurgan burials, all located in modern-day Ukraine on the northern shores of the Black Sea (the North Pontic Region, or NPR). While most of our samples possessed mtDNA haplotypes that can be linked to European and Near Eastern populations, three Neolithic and all three Bronze Age individuals belonged to mtDNA haplogroup C, which is common in East Eurasian, particularly South Siberian, populations but exceedingly rare in Europe. Phylogeographic network analysis revealed that our samples are located at or near the ancestral node for haplogroup C and that derived lineages branching from the Neolithic samples were present in Bronze Age Kurgans.
It's either the Kurgan hypothesis is false or Indo-Europeans were Mongols:cool:

[Kiyant]

They are our long lost brothers.

[blogen]

The haplotype is not phenotype! But this persons were Europo-Mongoloid presumably, the bronze age population of the Eurasian steppe were mixed already. This was the time of the birth of the Turanid (Cromagnoid+Mongoloid) or Pamirid (Taurid+Mongoloid types.

[SobieskisavedEurope]

The Kurgan culture of Indo-Europeans seems to have started just West in Poland!

http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2010/10/six-thousand-year-old-elite-corded-ware.html

it seems this Corded Ware kurgan from Southeastern Poland is the oldest in Eurasia (6,000 YBP). But I'd like to hear from anyone who knows of source that mentions a kurgan older than this.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/11/finally-structure-in-haplogroup-r1a.html

The earliest expansion time for R-M458 is found in Poland (10.7ky), but since the paper uses the effective mutation rate that I criticized elsewhere, this date should be divided by a factor of 3 giving an age of 3.6ky. This matches quite well the age for the Balto-Slavic split according to Gray and Atkinson. As with the recent paper on J-P58, adopting the germline rate makes excellent sense.

If R-M458 had started expanding 10.7ky ago, then by the time of the early dispersals of Kurgan groups east, it would have been present among them, and we would expect to find it east of the Urals and in the Near East/Central/South Asia. To reconcile this age with the archaeological picture of west-east movements across the steppe seems impossible. However, the situation resolves itself neatly when we realize that J-P58 is only 3-4 thousand years old, and was not in existence at the time of the Kurgan expansion.

[Kiyant]

The Kurgan culture of Indo-Europeans seems to have started just West in Poland!

http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2010/10/six-thousand-year-old-elite-corded-ware.html

it seems this Corded Ware kurgan from Southeastern Poland is the oldest in Eurasia (6,000 YBP). But I'd like to hear from anyone who knows of source that mentions a kurgan older than this.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/11/finally-structure-in-haplogroup-r1a.html

The earliest expansion time for R-M458 is found in Poland (10.7ky), but since the paper uses the effective mutation rate that I criticized elsewhere, this date should be divided by a factor of 3 giving an age of 3.6ky. This matches quite well the age for the Balto-Slavic split according to Gray and Atkinson. As with the recent paper on J-P58, adopting the germline rate makes excellent sense.

If R-M458 had started expanding 10.7ky ago, then by the time of the early dispersals of Kurgan groups east, it would have been present among them, and we would expect to find it east of the Urals and in the Near East/Central/South Asia. To reconcile this age with the archaeological picture of west-east movements across the steppe seems impossible. However, the situation resolves itself neatly when we realize that J-P58 is only 3-4 thousand years old, and was not in existence at the time of the Kurgan expansion.

Most theorys say the Kurgan culture comes from Ukraine/Russia.

[robar]

The haplotype is not phenotype! But this persons were Europo-Mongoloid presumably, the bronze age population of the Eurasian steppe were mixed already. This was the time of the birth of the Turanid (Cromagnoid+Mongoloid) or Pamirid (Taurid+Mongoloid types.

There is a strong corellation especially with Mt-dna

[SobieskisavedEurope]

Most theorys say the Kurgan culture comes from Ukraine/Russia.

Earliest Kurgan & R1a in Europe found in Poland changes this notion drastically!

[SobieskisavedEurope]

From dienekes blog:

It's either the Kurgan hypothesis is false or Indo-Europeans were Mongols:cool:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2009/05/ancient-siberians-carrying-r1a1-had_24.html

Ancient Siberians carrying R1a1 had light eyes - take 2

Hot on the heels of that recent Bouakaze et al. paper on the pigmentation genetics of prehistoric South Siberians, here's another effort based on the same samples and by basically the same team. This paper attempts to further elucidate the origins of these light-pigmented Kurgan nomads, including so called Scytho-Siberians.

Our autosomal, Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA analyses reveal that whereas few specimens seem to be related matrilineally or patrilineally, nearly all subjects belong to haplogroup R1a1-M17 which is thought to mark the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans. Our results also confirm that at the Bronze and Iron Ages, south Siberia was a region of overwhelmingly predominant European settlement, suggesting an eastward migration of Kurgan people across the Russo-Kazakh steppe. Finally, our data indicate that at the Bronze and Iron Age timeframe, south Siberians were blue (or green)-eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people and that they might have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin civilization.

Here are the locations of present-day individuals who were found to carry similar Y-chromosome lineages to those of the Kurgan samples. Interestingly, the most strongly represented region is East-Central Europe, which was once the home of the Corded Ware cultural horizon. Please note, three Corded Ware remains from a burial site at Eulau, Eastern Germany, were recently found to belong to R1a, which was most likely R1a1-M17 based on their shared Y-STR haplotype (see here).

[blogen]

There is a strong corellation especially with Mt-dna

Three generations and the the maternal/paternal genes of the grandparents may disappear from the descendants!

[robar]

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2009/05/ancient-siberians-carrying-r1a1-had_24.html

Ancient Siberians carrying R1a1 had light eyes - take 2

Hot on the heels of that recent Bouakaze et al. paper on the pigmentation genetics of prehistoric South Siberians, here's another effort based on the same samples and by basically the same team. This paper attempts to further elucidate the origins of these light-pigmented Kurgan nomads, including so called Scytho-Siberians.

Our autosomal, Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA analyses reveal that whereas few specimens seem to be related matrilineally or patrilineally, nearly all subjects belong to haplogroup R1a1-M17 which is thought to mark the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans. Our results also confirm that at the Bronze and Iron Ages, south Siberia was a region of overwhelmingly predominant European settlement, suggesting an eastward migration of Kurgan people across the Russo-Kazakh steppe. Finally, our data indicate that at the Bronze and Iron Age timeframe, south Siberians were blue (or green)-eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people and that they might have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin civilization.

Here are the locations of present-day individuals who were found to carry similar Y-chromosome lineages to those of the Kurgan samples. Interestingly, the most strongly represented region is East-Central Europe, which was once the home of the Corded Ware cultural horizon. Please note, three Corded Ware remains from a burial site at Eulau, Eastern Germany, were recently found to belong to R1a, which was most likely R1a1-M17 based on their shared Y-STR haplotype (see here).
The maternal dna C-is there so they were partly mongols:)

[SobieskisavedEurope]

Apparently, all Europeans have East Asian admixture, and Northern Europeans more of it than Southern Europeans. I read about it recently in a supplement from the latest David Reich et al. study on the origins of Amerindians (see section Note S3 here). The details are sketchy, so we'll have to wait until more info is available before getting stuck into the issue, but I wouldn't be surprised if these signals of East Asian autosomal admixture in Europeans were linked to the mtDNA C from Neolithic Ukraine.

Moving along, the presence of the two T lineages is also significant. This haplogroup seems to be common in remains from kurgan burials from West and South Siberia. Not only that, but it's also frequent in areas of Northern and Eastern Europe with very high frequencies of SNP markers linked to light eyes and fair hair, like the Baltic region.

This is worthy of note, because kurgan remains from South Siberia were tested for such markers, and appeared to show light eyes and fair hair at levels comparable to those of modern Northern and Eastern Europeans (more on that here). Indeed, they also mostly belonged to Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a, which is a marker that today dominates the region between the Baltic and Black Seas.

But mtDNA haplogroup T originally comes from the Near East, and most likely moved into Europe during the Neolithic. So the story unfolding here is that Near Eastern Neolithic migrants, carrying mtDNA T, and possibly Y-DNA R1a, migrated to Europe, and settled on the plains and steppes from the Baltic to the Caspian. Here they mixed with Mesolithic Europeans, who mostly carried mtDNA U lineages, and unknown Y-DNA haplogroups, as well as migrants from Siberia. This hybrid group then came up with the concept of the kurgan culture, and headed east, as far as South Siberia and Central Asia, spreading their language and way of life as they moved. Were these the early Indo-Europeans? Why not?

It's also important to note the presence of mtDNAs U3 and likely U1 in these Ukrainian results, especially in the context of a new study on West Siberian aDNA, published in the same online book. But I'll cover that in my next blog post.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/more-neolithic-mtdna-from-ukraine.html

[robar]

Three generations and the the maternal/paternal genes of the grandparents may disappear from the descendants!

Okay but that rarelly happens for whole opulation, possible, but not with high probability

[blogen]

Okay but that rarelly happens for whole opulation, possible, but not with high probability

This is incalculable in the strongly mixed populations, particularly if they are wandering sometimes!

[Kale]

I don't get it, what's the problem/news/relevance to anything? The Indo-Europeans spread West, then later on some Mongols came to the Caspian. Either that the Indo-Europeans spread West, then the ones that stayed behind later spread East and brought some females back with them. Either way, nothing incredibly surprising.

[Vesuvian Sky]

The Kurgan hypothesis (also theory or model) is one of the proposals about early Indo-European origins, which postulates that the people of an archaeological "Kurgan culture" (a term grouping the Yamna, or Pit Grave, culture and its predecessors) in the Pontic steppe were the most likely speakers of the Proto-Indo-European language.

[Smeagol]

Nope. Even Dienekes says
While most of our samples possessed mtDNA haplotypes that can be linked to European and Near Eastern populations
And just having an Asian haplogroup doesn't make someone Mongoloid anyway,.

[SobieskisavedEurope]

The maternal dna C-is there so they were partly mongols:)

Even this speaks of the exotic Asiatic like DNA in Scythians in the same area later on!

Scythians were Indo-Europeans were they not!?

http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2012/11/scythian-mtdna-from-iron-age-russia.html

Scythian mtDNA from Iron Age Russia

I already blogged about these and other ancient Russian samples very briefly a few weeks ago after reading the Oleg Balanovsky thesis (see here). However, what I didn't realize at the time was that a more extensive description of the samples was included in a 2011 thesis by someone called Clio Der Sarkissian. So here we go again...

Based on informative haplotype matches, the Rostov Scythians show clear affinity to modern European samples, especially those from Eastern Europe, including Poles and Russians. However, as mentioned in my previous blog entry, the Scythian mtDNA is much more exotic than that of most modern Eastern European populations, carrying heavy influence from North and East Eurasia, and some minor input from the Near East. Hence, on the PCA plot this ancient Rostov sample pulls away from the mainstream Eastern European cluster, and lands close to groups that also carry various exotic admixtures, like Tatars (TA2), Shugnans from Tajikistan (shu), Udmurts (UD), Komis (KO), and Pomors from Northern Russia (pom

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Mongols were european looking.

[Stears]

Three generations and the the maternal/paternal genes of the grandparents may disappear from the descendants!

You confused the ancestry test of persons with population genetics.

[sevruk]

we are

[Skerdilaid]

Mongols were european looking.

^^:laugh:

[Proto-Shaman]

It's either the Kurgan hypothesis is false...
This...


...or Indo-Europeans were Mongols:cool:
...and this.

- Marlboro -
The Turanian way of Awakening :cool:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=56112&d=1427254071

[Nexus]

Indo-Europeans banged some Mongol females you mean.

[Proto-Shaman]

Indo-Europeans banged some Mongol females you mean.
No. It just shows that Indo-Europeans in the Bronze Age European steppe belt never existed.

[Nexus]

No. It just shows that Indo-Europeans in the Bronze Age European steppe belt never existed.

At least some of their R ancestors lived in India not the barbaric Eurasian steppe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1