Fire Haired
10-06-2013, 09:49 AM
Borshevo region Russia 37,985ybp mtDNA=U2
Dolni Vestonice, Czech Republic 31,155ybp mtDNA=3: U5=2, U8=1
Gravettian culture Rignano Garganico, Apulia, southern Italy 28,000ybp mtDNA= H or HV or U
Gravettian culture Wales, UK 26,000ybp mtDNA= CRS unknown haplogroup click here (http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/p/ancient-mtdna-maps-of-europe.html) says rCRS is most likely H.
Gravettian culture Sunghir Russia 25,000ybp mtDNA=2: click here and here most likely H17'27
Gravettian culture Rignano Garganico, Apulia, southern Italy 24,000ybp mtDNA=HV or RO or H or U
Gravettian culture Rignano Garganico, Apulia, southern Italy 24,000ybp mtDNA= 73G, 10873C, 10238T, 10397A, 10398A, 10399C, 10400C, 16223T, reported as N*, correct for 10398A, but inconsistent with 10400C, so possible mosaic.
Solutrian,Nerja, Málaga Spain 18,000-15,000bc mtDNA=3 RO?=1, U=2
Magdalenian Hohler Fels, Germany 13,400bc mtDNA=2: U=2
Rignano Garganico, Apulia, southern Italy 13,000-9,000bc mtDNA= U2'3'4'7'8'9(Based on modern, Paleoithic, Mesloithic, Neloithic, Bronze, and Iron age European mtDNA samples most likely U2 or U4.
Magdalenian El Pirulejo , Spain 11,500-10,500bc mtDNA= CRS unknown for sure haplogroup
Magdalenian La Pasiega (Cantabria), Spain: mtDNA=3: reported as H=2(H6=1), U5=1. Jean Manco creator of Ancient Euraisan DNA says RO or HV=1, U=2(U5=1)
Late Epi-Gravettian Continenza, Italy 14,000-8,000ybp mtDNA= U5b2b1
Palaeolithic European mtDNA totally shows continuity with Mesolithic and Neolithic European hunter gathers mtDNA. Almost 100% mtDNA U mainly subclade U5 then far second U2 and U8 would has been in Europe for over 30,000 years. U5 most likely developed from U that migrated to Europe from the Near east 60,000-50,000ybp. U2 since it is in the oldest European mtDNA sample that is 37,985 years old and it is very popular in Mesolithic and Neolithic European hunter gathers it probably arrived in Europe over 40,000ybp. U4 is very popular in Mesolithic and Neloithic European hunter gathers it is estimated to be 25,000 years old and either originated in Europe or arrived from the Near east or central asia probably around 15,000-25,000ybp. What is surprising is there are no for sure U's from
Gravettian culture actulley all but one are possibly H or HV. Gravettian culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravettian) existed in Europe from about 32,000-22,000ybp the exact time HV and H are suppose to have first arrived in Europe(Chronology of European mtDNA) (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?95836-Chronology-of-European-mtDNA). Even though there is not nearly as much remains of Paleoithic people as Neloithic, copper, bronze, and iron age people which make it much harder to define different cultures so easily. This may be evidence though the Gravittian culture was a migration of mtDNA HV and H in Europe.
It seems looking at Paleoithic European mtDNA and Mesloithic and Neloithic European hunter gather DNA, That at least on the maternal side very little changed. Chronlolgy of European Y DNA shows probably not much changed in the paternal side either (chronology of Cro magnon y DNA) (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eupedia.com%2Fforum%2Fthreads %2F29080-Chronology-of-Cro-Magnon-Y-DNA&ei=S9FQUtOHBai4yAGGz4GQCQ&usg=AFQjCNGz1OspmPcJksgge1PR8vCmPywrxg&sig2=_M2LHaFXelXzBIH3-UbqCg). Y DNA G2a, E1b1b(mainly V13), J1, J2, and T all mainly arrived in Europe with the spread of farming out of the Near east mainly spreading 9,000-6,000ybp. y DNA R1a most likely originated in Europe 18,000ybp but did not spread and become very popular in Europe till 5,000ybp in the bronze age with the spread of proto Balto Slavic(or proto proto what ever you want call it) Corded ware culture in eastern Europe and Scandinavia with subclade R1a1a1b1 Z283. Also R1a1a1b2 Z93 spread to mainly asia with proto Indo Iranian and Tocherian languages starting also around 5,000ybp and there were back migrations of Indo Iranians and there is some R1a1a1b2 Z93 that is just eastern European. Almost all R1a is under R1a1a1 M417 developing in Ukriane estimated only 8,000ybp and its subclades spreading with certain Indo European languages. R1b first arrived in Europe from the Near east with subclade R1b1a P297 about 8,000-10,000ybp which developed into R1b1a1 M72 and is spread in Russia and central asia. Another migration of R1b from the Near east or the same brought R1b1a P297, R1b1a2 M269, or R1b1a2a L23 into Russia and southeast Europe, Which probably were R1b1a2a1 L51 developed then migrated to western Europe arriving about 5,000ybp developing into R1b1a2a1a L11 then spreading Germanic and Italo Celtic languages(spread of R1b L11 Germanic Italo Celts (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?93100-Spread-of-Germanic-Italo-Celts-and-R1b1a2a1a-L11)).
So all other Y DNA in Europe that did not arrive in the Neolithic or after hg I, F, C6 would have arrived before LGM 26,600ybp. Austomal DNA tells the same story in globe13 the Caucasin family is brother North Euro and west Asian and then southwest Asian and Meditreaen. North Euro is unique to Europe it also exists at low rates in mainly areas Indo Iranian and Tocherian speakers spread in asia. North Euro is also dominate over 70% in the Mesolithic and Neolithic European hunter gather austomal DNA samples. North Euro most likely developed from people who migrated to Europe from around the Caucus(were brother west Asian is highest) or Anatolia over 30,000ybp. Even though technically North Euro averages about 50% in modern Europeans (But over 68% in Baltic, north eastern Europe, and Scandinavia) it is very good evidence modern Europeans trace most of their ancestry to some of the earliest settlers we know of. U
Unlike all other Caucasians Europeans are dominated by pale pigmentation pale skin, high amounts of fair hair(not just blonde) and eyes(around 50%+ in most of Europe), and for western Europe and Volga Russia over 1% red hair(Origin of European palness(skin, hair, and eye color). (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?92883-Origin-of-European-Paleness(skin-hair-and-eye-color)) Since the spread of farming mainly 9,000-6,000ybp brought people from the Near east to Europe and other evidence European palness without a doubt is pre Neolithic. The genes associated with European pale skin are about as popular in all other Caucasians and there is pretty good evidence light eyes most likely did not originate in Europe probably in the Near east 40,000-80,000ybp same for fair hair. And since red hair exists in Samaritans who in globe13 have 0% North Euro red hair also may have not originated in Europe. It existed in Europeans ancestors when they first arrived in Europe and near eastern and North Africans ancestors. But why did it become dominate in Europeans ancestors maybe because of climate. I think the palness of modern Europeans is evidence they are mainly decend from pre Neolithic hunter gathers who descend from some of the earliest settlers n Europe.
What is really confusing is the huge difference between farming Europeans starting in the Neolithic and hunter gather Europeans. Starting in the Neolithic in European mtDNA H becomes much more popular, new haplogroups T(mainly T2 then T2b), J(mainly J1 then J1c, K(K2) are decently popular around 5-15% each and X(almost all X2), I, and W are at about 1-5%. Which is constant with modern European mtDNA. But globe13 test of Neolithic and Mesolithic European hunter gathers who's mtDNA does not really show continuity with modern Europeans show they are actually more European than any modern ones because they had over 70% unequally European group North Euro. Globe13 results of European Neolithic and copper age farmer Otzie were 59% or more Mediterranean, 5-14% southwest Asian, and Otzie had 6% west Asian. even farmers from earliest Neolithic culture in Scandinavia Funnel beaker did same with Otzie copper age farmer in Alps Italy. Since the other around 50% of modern European austomal DNA goes to these groups Europeans definitely do have a large amount of ancestry from Near eastern? farmers. And most modern European y DNA arrived in the Neolithic or after. So why if modern European paternal and maternal lines arrived mainly from the Neolithic age and post Neolithic age is Europeans ancestry mainly pre Neolithic? mtDNA H has been confirmed in Paleoithic and Mesloithic European mtDNA samples and subclades H1 and H3(main H subclades in Europe and ancient European remains) H2 most likely originated in Europe during the Paleoithic(chronology of Cro magnon y DNA) (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eupedia.com%2Fforum%2Fthreads %2F29080-Chronology-of-Cro-Magnon-Y-DNA&ei=S9FQUtOHBai4yAGGz4GQCQ&usg=AFQjCNGz1OspmPcJksgge1PR8vCmPywrxg&sig2=_M2LHaFXelXzBIH3-UbqCg) and the vast majority of mtDNA T, J, and X are believed to have arrived in Europe during the Palaeolithic age.
Dolni Vestonice, Czech Republic 31,155ybp mtDNA=3: U5=2, U8=1
Gravettian culture Rignano Garganico, Apulia, southern Italy 28,000ybp mtDNA= H or HV or U
Gravettian culture Wales, UK 26,000ybp mtDNA= CRS unknown haplogroup click here (http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/p/ancient-mtdna-maps-of-europe.html) says rCRS is most likely H.
Gravettian culture Sunghir Russia 25,000ybp mtDNA=2: click here and here most likely H17'27
Gravettian culture Rignano Garganico, Apulia, southern Italy 24,000ybp mtDNA=HV or RO or H or U
Gravettian culture Rignano Garganico, Apulia, southern Italy 24,000ybp mtDNA= 73G, 10873C, 10238T, 10397A, 10398A, 10399C, 10400C, 16223T, reported as N*, correct for 10398A, but inconsistent with 10400C, so possible mosaic.
Solutrian,Nerja, Málaga Spain 18,000-15,000bc mtDNA=3 RO?=1, U=2
Magdalenian Hohler Fels, Germany 13,400bc mtDNA=2: U=2
Rignano Garganico, Apulia, southern Italy 13,000-9,000bc mtDNA= U2'3'4'7'8'9(Based on modern, Paleoithic, Mesloithic, Neloithic, Bronze, and Iron age European mtDNA samples most likely U2 or U4.
Magdalenian El Pirulejo , Spain 11,500-10,500bc mtDNA= CRS unknown for sure haplogroup
Magdalenian La Pasiega (Cantabria), Spain: mtDNA=3: reported as H=2(H6=1), U5=1. Jean Manco creator of Ancient Euraisan DNA says RO or HV=1, U=2(U5=1)
Late Epi-Gravettian Continenza, Italy 14,000-8,000ybp mtDNA= U5b2b1
Palaeolithic European mtDNA totally shows continuity with Mesolithic and Neolithic European hunter gathers mtDNA. Almost 100% mtDNA U mainly subclade U5 then far second U2 and U8 would has been in Europe for over 30,000 years. U5 most likely developed from U that migrated to Europe from the Near east 60,000-50,000ybp. U2 since it is in the oldest European mtDNA sample that is 37,985 years old and it is very popular in Mesolithic and Neolithic European hunter gathers it probably arrived in Europe over 40,000ybp. U4 is very popular in Mesolithic and Neloithic European hunter gathers it is estimated to be 25,000 years old and either originated in Europe or arrived from the Near east or central asia probably around 15,000-25,000ybp. What is surprising is there are no for sure U's from
Gravettian culture actulley all but one are possibly H or HV. Gravettian culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravettian) existed in Europe from about 32,000-22,000ybp the exact time HV and H are suppose to have first arrived in Europe(Chronology of European mtDNA) (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?95836-Chronology-of-European-mtDNA). Even though there is not nearly as much remains of Paleoithic people as Neloithic, copper, bronze, and iron age people which make it much harder to define different cultures so easily. This may be evidence though the Gravittian culture was a migration of mtDNA HV and H in Europe.
It seems looking at Paleoithic European mtDNA and Mesloithic and Neloithic European hunter gather DNA, That at least on the maternal side very little changed. Chronlolgy of European Y DNA shows probably not much changed in the paternal side either (chronology of Cro magnon y DNA) (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eupedia.com%2Fforum%2Fthreads %2F29080-Chronology-of-Cro-Magnon-Y-DNA&ei=S9FQUtOHBai4yAGGz4GQCQ&usg=AFQjCNGz1OspmPcJksgge1PR8vCmPywrxg&sig2=_M2LHaFXelXzBIH3-UbqCg). Y DNA G2a, E1b1b(mainly V13), J1, J2, and T all mainly arrived in Europe with the spread of farming out of the Near east mainly spreading 9,000-6,000ybp. y DNA R1a most likely originated in Europe 18,000ybp but did not spread and become very popular in Europe till 5,000ybp in the bronze age with the spread of proto Balto Slavic(or proto proto what ever you want call it) Corded ware culture in eastern Europe and Scandinavia with subclade R1a1a1b1 Z283. Also R1a1a1b2 Z93 spread to mainly asia with proto Indo Iranian and Tocherian languages starting also around 5,000ybp and there were back migrations of Indo Iranians and there is some R1a1a1b2 Z93 that is just eastern European. Almost all R1a is under R1a1a1 M417 developing in Ukriane estimated only 8,000ybp and its subclades spreading with certain Indo European languages. R1b first arrived in Europe from the Near east with subclade R1b1a P297 about 8,000-10,000ybp which developed into R1b1a1 M72 and is spread in Russia and central asia. Another migration of R1b from the Near east or the same brought R1b1a P297, R1b1a2 M269, or R1b1a2a L23 into Russia and southeast Europe, Which probably were R1b1a2a1 L51 developed then migrated to western Europe arriving about 5,000ybp developing into R1b1a2a1a L11 then spreading Germanic and Italo Celtic languages(spread of R1b L11 Germanic Italo Celts (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?93100-Spread-of-Germanic-Italo-Celts-and-R1b1a2a1a-L11)).
So all other Y DNA in Europe that did not arrive in the Neolithic or after hg I, F, C6 would have arrived before LGM 26,600ybp. Austomal DNA tells the same story in globe13 the Caucasin family is brother North Euro and west Asian and then southwest Asian and Meditreaen. North Euro is unique to Europe it also exists at low rates in mainly areas Indo Iranian and Tocherian speakers spread in asia. North Euro is also dominate over 70% in the Mesolithic and Neolithic European hunter gather austomal DNA samples. North Euro most likely developed from people who migrated to Europe from around the Caucus(were brother west Asian is highest) or Anatolia over 30,000ybp. Even though technically North Euro averages about 50% in modern Europeans (But over 68% in Baltic, north eastern Europe, and Scandinavia) it is very good evidence modern Europeans trace most of their ancestry to some of the earliest settlers we know of. U
Unlike all other Caucasians Europeans are dominated by pale pigmentation pale skin, high amounts of fair hair(not just blonde) and eyes(around 50%+ in most of Europe), and for western Europe and Volga Russia over 1% red hair(Origin of European palness(skin, hair, and eye color). (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?92883-Origin-of-European-Paleness(skin-hair-and-eye-color)) Since the spread of farming mainly 9,000-6,000ybp brought people from the Near east to Europe and other evidence European palness without a doubt is pre Neolithic. The genes associated with European pale skin are about as popular in all other Caucasians and there is pretty good evidence light eyes most likely did not originate in Europe probably in the Near east 40,000-80,000ybp same for fair hair. And since red hair exists in Samaritans who in globe13 have 0% North Euro red hair also may have not originated in Europe. It existed in Europeans ancestors when they first arrived in Europe and near eastern and North Africans ancestors. But why did it become dominate in Europeans ancestors maybe because of climate. I think the palness of modern Europeans is evidence they are mainly decend from pre Neolithic hunter gathers who descend from some of the earliest settlers n Europe.
What is really confusing is the huge difference between farming Europeans starting in the Neolithic and hunter gather Europeans. Starting in the Neolithic in European mtDNA H becomes much more popular, new haplogroups T(mainly T2 then T2b), J(mainly J1 then J1c, K(K2) are decently popular around 5-15% each and X(almost all X2), I, and W are at about 1-5%. Which is constant with modern European mtDNA. But globe13 test of Neolithic and Mesolithic European hunter gathers who's mtDNA does not really show continuity with modern Europeans show they are actually more European than any modern ones because they had over 70% unequally European group North Euro. Globe13 results of European Neolithic and copper age farmer Otzie were 59% or more Mediterranean, 5-14% southwest Asian, and Otzie had 6% west Asian. even farmers from earliest Neolithic culture in Scandinavia Funnel beaker did same with Otzie copper age farmer in Alps Italy. Since the other around 50% of modern European austomal DNA goes to these groups Europeans definitely do have a large amount of ancestry from Near eastern? farmers. And most modern European y DNA arrived in the Neolithic or after. So why if modern European paternal and maternal lines arrived mainly from the Neolithic age and post Neolithic age is Europeans ancestry mainly pre Neolithic? mtDNA H has been confirmed in Paleoithic and Mesloithic European mtDNA samples and subclades H1 and H3(main H subclades in Europe and ancient European remains) H2 most likely originated in Europe during the Paleoithic(chronology of Cro magnon y DNA) (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eupedia.com%2Fforum%2Fthreads %2F29080-Chronology-of-Cro-Magnon-Y-DNA&ei=S9FQUtOHBai4yAGGz4GQCQ&usg=AFQjCNGz1OspmPcJksgge1PR8vCmPywrxg&sig2=_M2LHaFXelXzBIH3-UbqCg) and the vast majority of mtDNA T, J, and X are believed to have arrived in Europe during the Palaeolithic age.