Ashkenazi Jewish matrilineages mainly of European origin

[MfA_]

Fresh study

If we allow for the possibility that K1a9 and N1b2 might have a Near Eastern source, then we can estimate the overall fraction of European maternal ancestry at ~65%. Given the strength of the case for even these founders having a European source, however, our best estimate is to assign ~81% of Ashkenazi lineages to a European source, ~8% to the Near East and ~1% further to the east in Asia, with ~10% remaining ambiguous (Fig. 10; Supplementary Table S9). Thus at least two-thirds and most likely more than four-fifths of Ashkenazi maternal lineages have a European ancestry.

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/full/ncomms3543.html

Suplementery data
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/extref/ncomms3543-s1.pdf

http://abload.de/img/desktop_2013_10_08_22fluuf.png

http://abload.de/img/desktop_2013_10_08_22ejkdm.png

[Artek]

Final results seems to be misenterpreted anyway. I wouldn't be so eager to call them mainly European by their maternal origins.

[StonyArabia]

It was Semitic males probably taking European females. This has been confirmed by many genetic studies, but also this shows the adoption of the maternal descent is rather very recent. So what this means that there is no such thing as lost tribes of Israel they always have existed as Jewish. The European descent mostly seems to be Greco-Roman in origins with some contribution of German and Slavic.

So much for the Khazar theory lol.

[Artek]

It was Semitic males probably taking European females. This has been confirmed by many genetic studies, but also this shows the adoption of the maternal descent is rather very recent. So what this means that there is no such thing as lost tribes of Israel they always have existed as Jewish. The European descent mostly seems to be Greco-Roman in origins with some contribution of German and Slavic
Or we should say that Jews have just Mediterranean origins, that's why their maternal lineages resemble the most Greco-Roman ones.

I could 've done pretty much the same study about Syrians having European maternal origins since they have significant amount of mtDNA that is found across the Mediterranean.

So much for the Khazar theory lol.
That could be an explanation for some of the lineages but definitely not the full picture ;D

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Calling them all european lineages would be like saying that I have an american lineage because I'm in america now. Virtually nobody in anatolia now is native to it, and situation is not much different in levant either. If arabs want to return to saudi arabia, though, fine with me.

[ariel]

Calling them all european lineages would be like saying that I have an american lineage because I'm in america now. Virtually nobody in anatolia now is native to it, and situation is not much different in levant either. If arabs want to return to saudi arabia, though, fine with me.

are you talking about muslim levantines?

The plots reveal a Levantine structure not reported previously: Lebanese Christians and all Druze cluster together, and Lebanese Muslims are extended towards Syrians, Palestinians, and Jordanians, which are close to Saudis and Bedouins


http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1003316

[Philo]

My question is where does K1a1b1a come from? That's my mtdna. A similar clade was found on Otzi the iceman.

[Sikeliot]

I'd like to compare their mtdna to southern Italians. Ashkenazis may very well then be Levantine on the male side and southern Italian on the female side, which is why they plot where they do on 23andme.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

My question is where does K1a1b1a come from? That's my mtdna. A similar clade was found on Otzi the iceman.

Nobody knows for sure (in fact no one knows for sure for most of them), but probably ancient greece. Hellenic greece. You could be descendent of a hellenized jew from alexander's time, or perhaps later byzantine jew. Or perhaps K was once a levantine y-dna for that matter. At this point we don't really know, but it's becoming more clear all the 'near east' DNA remaining from ottoman times has no origin there at all, aside from a few holdouts like lebanese and samaritans.

[Sikeliot]

Nobody knows for sure (in fact no one knows for sure for most of them), but probably ancient greece. Hellenic greece. You could be descendent of a hellenized jew from alexander's time, or perhaps later byzantine jew.

I don't have any K1a1b1a on my 23andme, but for "K1a" of various types I have a great many Italians and Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

Nobody knows for sure (in fact no one knows for sure for most of them), but probably ancient greece. Hellenic greece. You could be descendent of a hellenized jew from alexander's time, or perhaps later byzantine jew.

I don't have any K1a1b1a on my 23andme, but for "K1a" of various types I have a great many Italians and Greeks.

[Philo]

Nobody knows for sure (in fact no one knows for sure for most of them), but probably ancient greece. Hellenic greece. You could be descendent of a hellenized jew from alexander's time, or perhaps later byzantine jew.
Most of the Greek-speaking Jews were actually Judeans influenced by the Greeks. The Seleucids ruled Israel first, and than the Ptolemais, until the Herodian(Judeans) kicked them in the Maccabean revolt.

n 333 BCE, Macedonian ruler Alexander the Great defeated Persia and conquered the region. Sometime thereafter, the first translation of the Hebrew Bible, the Septuagint, was begun in Alexandria. After Alexander's death, his generals fought over the territory he had conquered. Judah became the frontier between the Seleucid Empire and Ptolemaic Egypt, eventually becoming part of the Seleucid Empire. In the 2nd century BCE, Antiochus IV Epiphanes (ruler of the Seleucid Empire) tried to eradicate Judaism in favour of Hellenistic religion. This provoked the 174–135 BCE Maccabean Revolt led by Judas Maccabeus (whose victory is celebrated in the Jewish festival of Hanukkah). The Books of the Maccabees describe the uprising and the end of Greek rule. A Jewish party called the Hasideans opposed both Hellenism and the revolt but eventually gave their support to the Maccabees. Modern interpretations see this period as a civil war between Hellenized and orthodox forms of Judaism.

[Smeagol]

I'd like to compare their mtdna to southern Italians. Ashkenazis may very well then be Levantine on the male side and southern Italian on the female side, which is why they plot where they do on 23andme.

But they plot with south Italians and Sicilians, so it makes no sense to say that Ashkenazis are half Levantine, half South Italian. There is definitely Germanic influence.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I don't have any K1a1b1a on my 23andme, but for "K1a" of various types I have a great many Italians and Greeks.

I J and K all split off the same clade, and it's obvious that the J was split in the east. The I in the west and the K seems all scattered around, may have been more concentrated at one point though. In ice age they should have been in greece and southern italy as that's where gravettian cultural artifacts are found, so those results make sense.

[Sikeliot]

But they plot with south Italians and Sicilians, so it makes no sense to say that Ashkenazis are half Levantine, half South Italian. There is definitely Germanic influence.

Southern Italians have genetic affinity to the Levant themselves. Ancient Levantines would not have had the Arab influence and may not have been far off from Cypriots. Half Cypriot like genes and half southern Italian will be right in the midst of both clusters which already kind of overlap.

[Sikeliot]

But they plot with south Italians and Sicilians, so it makes no sense to say that Ashkenazis are half Levantine, half South Italian. There is definitely Germanic influence.

Southern Italians have genetic affinity to the Levant themselves. Ancient Levantines would not have had the Arab influence and may not have been far off from Cypriots. Half Cypriot like genes and half southern Italian will be right in the midst of both clusters which already kind of overlap.

[Smeagol]

Southern Italians have genetic affinity to the Levant themselves. Ancient Levantines would not have had the Arab influence and may not have been far off from Cypriots. Half Cypriot like genes and half southern Italian will be right in the midst of both clusters which already kind of overlap.

Maybe, but I still think there is some Germanic influence.

[Smeagol]

Southern Italians have genetic affinity to the Levant themselves. Ancient Levantines would not have had the Arab influence and may not have been far off from Cypriots. Half Cypriot like genes and half southern Italian will be right in the midst of both clusters which already kind of overlap.

Maybe, but I still think there is some Germanic influence.

[curupira]

MtDNA haplogroup K is fairly common in the Levant, so one cannot be sure that it did not come from Levantine women, at least so far.


Approximately 16% of the Druze of Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and Jordan, belong to haplogroup K. It was also found in a significant group of Palestinian Arabs. K reaches a level of 17% in Kurdistan.

Approximately 32% of people with Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry are in haplogroup K. This high percentage points to a genetic bottleneck occurring some 100 generations ago. Ashkenazi mtDNA K clusters into three subclades seldom found in non-Jews: K1a1b1a, K1a9, and K2a2a. Thus it is possible to detect three individual female ancestors, likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool, whose descendants lived in Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_K_(mtDNA)

[gregorius]

cool

[curupira]

From another previous study (Behar et al, 2006), also focusing on this subject, Ashkenazi mtDNA (more reliable take, IMO):


We have identified four Ashkenazi founding lineages, three within Hg K and one in Hg N1b, deriving from only four ancestral women and accounting for fully 40% of the mtDNAs of the current Ashkenazi population (~8,000,000 people). The most dominant of these lineages, K1a1b1a, encompasses 62% of the Ashkenazi K mtDNAs, which translates into 19.4% of contemporary Ashkenazi Jews, or ~1,700,000 people. The second most common lineage is within Hg N1b and corresponds to an additional 800,000 people.

The observed global pattern of distribution renders very unlikely the possibility that the four aforementioned founder lineages entered the Ashkenazi mtDNA pool via gene flow from a European host population.

For example, in databases of HVS-I sequences of British, Irish, German, French, or Italian subjects, these Ashkenazi sample founder lineage sequences were not observed (Baasner et al. 1998; Lutz et al. 1998; Pfeiffer et al. 2001).

Furthermore, the non-Ashkenazi Jewish populations sharing the Ashkenazi mtDNA Hg K lineages turn out to be from Jewish communities that trace their origins to the expulsion from Spain in 1492.

Either a shared ancestral origin of the two groups or, alternatively, a postexile admixture between neighboring Ashkenazi and Spanish-exile Jewish populations may explain the sharing of these maternal lineages. However, the very presence of the Ashkenazi founding lineages, albeit at low frequencies, in North African, Near Eastern, and Caucasian Jews, supports a common Levantine ancestry.

In conclusion, the present study highlights the importance of a combined phylogenetic/phylogeographic strategy that includes complete mtDNA sequence analysis to accurately portray maternal founding events and to infer conclusions relevant to both shared ancestries and population-level effects that shaped the mtDNA gene pool in a given population. In the Ashkenazi Jews, this approach enabled us to reconstruct a detailed phylogenetic tree for the major Ashkenazi Hgs K and N1b, allowing the detection of a small set of only four individual female ancestors, likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool, whose descendants lived in Europe and carried forward their particular mtDNA variants to 3,500,000 individuals in a time frame of 2 millennia.
http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/43026_doron.pdf

[Prisoner Of Ice]

MtDNA haplogroup K is fairly common in the Levant, so one cannot be sure that it did not come from Levantine women, at least so far.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_K_(mtDNA)

I didn't realize there were so many. It does look, indeed, like it formed in the levant.

[Prince Carlo]

For example, in databases of HVS-I sequences of British, Irish, German, French, or Italian subjects, these Ashkenazi sample founder lineage sequences were not observed (Baasner et al. 1998; Lutz et al. 1998; Pfeiffer et al. 2001).

Jack ass comment from Behar. Those lineage sequences could have entered from a now extinct European population. Mtdna changed quite a lot in Europe in last 2000 years.

[Argang]

They inferred ancestries for non-Ashkenazi clades of K as well.

38547

[curupira]

Jack ass comment from Behar. Those lineage sequences could have entered from a now extinct European population. Mtdna changed quite a lot in Europe in last 2000 years.

Not really, when you take into account this other finding:


Furthermore, the non-Ashkenazi Jewish populations sharing the Ashkenazi mtDNA Hg K lineages turn out to be from Jewish communities that trace their origins to the expulsion from Spain in 1492.

Either a shared ancestral origin of the two groups or, alternatively, a postexile admixture between neighboring Ashkenazi and Spanish-exile Jewish populations may explain the sharing of these maternal lineages. However, the very presence of the Ashkenazi founding lineages, albeit at low frequencies, in North African, Near Eastern, and Caucasian Jews, supports a common Levantine ancestry.

http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/43026_doron.pdf

[Prince Carlo]

Not really, when you take into account this other finding:



http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/43026_doron.pdf

Almost all academic papers on Mtdna-chromosome haplogroups are outdated. It would be better to get info from various FTDNA projects and forum discussions.

[curupira]

On a side note, it is intriguing how so few maternal lineages account for so much of the maternal lines of the Ashkenazi population... likely they all descend from a few Levantine women who made their way to Europe over a thousand years ago.

This is what 23andme says on a few of these lines:

K1a1b1a, K2a2a, K1a9, etc:


K split off the more ancient haplogroup U8 about 35,000 years ago. Since then, haplogroup K has been involved in migrations from the Near East into Europe, most notably the founding and expansion of Ashkenazi Jewish populations.

One branch of haplogroup K ties about 1.7 million Ashkenazi Jews living today to a single maternal ancestor.


K in the Ashkenazi

A few branches of haplogroup K, such as K1a9, K2a2a, and K1a1b1a, are specific to Jewish populations and especially to Ashkenazi Jews, whose roots lie in central and eastern Europe. These branches of haplogroup K are found at levels of 30% among Ashkenazi. But they are also found at lower levels in Jewish populations from the Near East and Africa, and among Sephardic Jews who trace their roots to medieval Spain. That indicates an origin of those K haplogroup branches in the Near East before 70 AD, when the Roman destruction of Jerusalem scattered the Jewish people around the Mediterranean and beyond.

About 1.7 million Ashkenazi living today – about 20% of the population – share a single branch of the K haplogroup, K1a1b1a. The diversity of that haplogroup among Ashkenazi suggests that it arose in the Near East between 2,000 and 3,000 years ago, and that everyone who shares it today could have shared a common ancestor as recently as 700 years ago. A similar pattern in two other K branches that are common among the Ashkenazi, K1a9 and K2a2, as well as the N1b branch of haplogroup N, has led researchers to conclude that 40% of the Ashkenazi living today – about 3.4 million people – could descend from as few as four women who lived within the last 2,000 years.

Historical information supports that conclusion. The Ashkenazi tradition traces back to a small number of people who migrated from northern Italy to the Rhine Valley of Germany around 700 AD, then grew over the next 1,300 years to a population of more than 5 million.

N1b2:


Haplogroup: N1b, a subgroup of N

Example Populations: Mazandarani, Bedouin, Ashkenazi

Highlight: It is likely that every Ashkenazi Jew with mitochondrial DNA from N1b may have inherited it from a single woman who lived less than 2,000 years ago.


Haplogroup N1b2

Jewish populations dispersed from the Near East about 2,000 years ago, after the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Second Temple by the Romans. Some of them ended up in Rome, and a few of their descendants eventually made their way northward to settle in the Rhine Valley around 800 AD. Over the next millennium that small group of founders, known as the Ashkenazi, grew to a population of 6 million.

Research has shown that Ashkenazi living today trace back to just a handful of mitochondrial DNA lines. Their mitochondrial genetics is so restricted, in fact, that 40% of the Ashkenazi living today can be traced back to as few as four individual women.

One of those women belonged to the N1b2 haplogroup, which is found today in the mitochondrial DNA of about 10% of Ashkenazi. Though it is also found in other Jewish groups, the vast majority of the people who carry it today trace their lineage back to one, or at most a few, women who lived between 500 and 2,500 years ago, and most likely during the first millennium AD.

[dhunter93]

"We have identified four Ashkenazi founding lineages, three within Hg K and one in Hg N1b, deriving from only four ancestral women and accounting for fully 40% of the mtDNAs of the current Ashkenazi population (~8,000,000 people). The most dominant of these lineages, K1a1b1a, encompasses 62% of the Ashkenazi K mtDNAs, which translates into 19.4% of contemporary Ashkenazi Jews, or ~1,700,000 people. The second most common lineage is within Hg N1b and corresponds to an additional 800,000 people.
Haplogroup: N1b, a subgroup of N

Example Populations: Mazandarani, Bedouin, Ashkenazi

Highlight: It is likely that every Ashkenazi Jew with mitochondrial DNA from N1b may have inherited it from a single woman who lived less than 2,000 years ago."



N1b2:[/QUOTE]


It appears you are just cutting random unscientific post off the internet without reading them; Behar came up with 9% of Ashkenazi jews (in his study) had what is now known as N1B2 (16176A). Currently the highest concentration of N1B mtdna is found in the Caucasus Mountains not the middle east, and based on Richards finding( published in Nature Communications) it appears that the distribution of N1B went from the Caucasus Mountains west across southern Europe and was the founding group for N1B2 that mutated to the Ashkenazi 16176A in Italy.

[Anglojew]

It's funny because on the Gedmatch 4 way EU tests I am consistantly getting similar results (for each test);

1/4 Spanish
1/4 English/French/German depending on the test
1/4 Kurdish/Mandaen depending on the test
1/4 Swedish

The first 2 make sence as coming from my English side (or a little Spanish eg pre-celtic/celtic from my Dad's sephardic ancestors too) but since I'm consistantly getting Swedish too it seems clear my Jewish side is basically a Near Eastern/North Germanic mix.

All of this is consistant with my theory of the origins of Ashkenazim; being the result of the meshing of Swedish Goths and Judeans in the Crimean region (with slight Khazar admixture).

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?74375-Are-Ashkenazi-Jews-A-Lost-East-Gothic-Tribe

[MfA_]

It's funny because on the Gedmatch 4 way EU tests I am consistantly getting similar results (for each test);

1/4 Spanish
1/4 English/French/German depending on the test
1/4 Kurdish/Mandaen depending on the test
1/4 Swedish

The first 2 make sence as coming from my English side (or a little Spanish eg pre-celtic/celtic from my Dad's sephardic ancestors too) but since I'm consistantly getting Swedish too it seems clear my Jewish side is basically a Near Eastern/North Germanic mix.

All of this is consistant with my theory of the origins of Ashkenazim; being the result of the meshing of Swedish Goths and Judeans in the Crimean region (with slight Khazar admixture).

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?74375-Are-Ashkenazi-Jews-A-Lost-East-Gothic-Tribe

Anglojew you may want to read these,

http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/07/ashkenazi-jews-and-their-iranian-origin.html
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2013/10/hv1b2-discovered-among-yezidi-kurd.html

[Anglojew]

Anglojew you may want to read these,

http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/07/ashkenazi-jews-and-their-iranian-origin.html
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2013/10/hv1b2-discovered-among-yezidi-kurd.html

Interesting because it explains both my Q haplogroup and baloch admixture.