How will India counter the rise of China in Asia?

[Loki]

I'm wondering about this. The two countries have a similar population, and have always been rivals in Asia. But recently, with the rise and rise of China, India looks more and more irrelevant. Of course it is not, but I am sure there must be alert in India about it. India is also developing rapidly, but is far behind China already economically, and looks to be falling even further behind. This could eventually lead to a Chinese domination of Asia, even on the Indian subcontinent. Or not?

One thing to remember though, is that China is facing more rivalry from the Koreans and Japanese as well.

Discuss.

[RussiaPrussia]

they cant

[Swearengen]

It won't. They are too divided.

[Acquisitor]

Indian culture is quite inferior when it comes to progress and innovations. I dont see India being able to challenge Chinese future dominance.

China itself could stop growing soon anyway and as WS people say "trade sideways at best".

India is overestimated imo, and so is China.

[Insuperable]

I read how analysts predict that once China economically surpasses USA, India will do it something like 20 years after China or India will surpass China in that time, can't remember exactly so it is the first time now, from you, I hear about India falling behind. China might of course temper with India.

[Loki]

China itself could stop growing soon anyway and as WS people say "trade sideways at best".


People have been saying this continuously for the past few decades, and they've always been proven wrong. In my view there is still at least 100 years worth of growth potential in China.

[Acquisitor]

People have been saying this continuously for the past few decades, and they've always been proven wrong. In my view there is still at least 100 years worth of growth potential in China.

how come the Chinese don't innovate ? how come they just copy stuff ? if they don't learn to innovate, then the growth potential is limited imo.

[Loki]

how come the Chinese don't innovate ? how come they just copy stuff ? if they don't learn to innovate, then the growth potential is limited imo.

It will come with time.

[Acquisitor]

It will come with time.

maybe, but maybe not.

they have been growing thanks to manufacturing for US/Europe but also by copying our stuff. Who says that eventually they will be able to innovate ?

I dont like the idea of their students studying in Europe/US at all, I see it as our uni's creating future competition, but even these students who go back to China, apparently fail to innovate.

[Mehmet]

India is a heterogeneous nation, divided in ethno-religious lines. They are fine, slow people. Their country is backward and poor. No way they catch up China.
India can't even spread all over Asian continent. They are contained by Pakistan and China.
China is homogeneous, united under Han communism, with many racist elements. They aren't that fine people, they all look the same as if they were produced in the same factory.

Chinese were fine people having never tried to expand.
Russians gave them their ideology and have supported them against Westerners so far.
Even though Russians are historically, racially, culturally, religiously closer to Europeans than to Chinese; even to this day they play China against the West and support them.

[Shah-Jehan]

Hindi-chini Bhai bhai...

[Cail]

India probably won't measure up to China in the next few decades, but it will nevertheless be one of the most important markets. Indians themselves aren't lacking representation in the global elites either, both business and science.

[Acquisitor]

India probably won't measure up to China in the next few decades, but it will nevertheless be one of the most important markets. Indians themselves aren't lacking representation in the global elites either, both business and science.

yes many seem to prosper abroad but relatively few in India itself..

[RussiaPrussia]

how come the Chinese don't innovate ? how come they just copy stuff ? if they don't learn to innovate, then the growth potential is limited imo.

what for BS Chinese make almost anything these days so for every chinese innovation there are 30 cheap manufactured goods

[Acquisitor]

what for BS Chinese make almost anything these days so for every chinese innovation there are 30 cheap manufactured goods

did you read what I said ? did you also read what you replied ? please do so.

[Dandelion]

Indian culture is quite inferior when it comes to progress and innovations. I dont see India being able to challenge Chinese future dominance.


Here are pictures of India:
http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/filthy-india-photos-chinese-netizen-reactions.html

It's because in Hindu culture everything is holy, even the ugliness the world offers.

By the way, Pakistan and Bangladesh are examples of how India would be would it be majority Islamic. And they are among the shittiest muslim countries. Also interesting to take into account.

[RussiaPrussia]

did you read what I said ? did you also read what you replied ? please do so.

lol you fail your self at readin, you said they cant innovate but there make plenty of innovation. I just said that you just dont realize that them producing mass goods is overshadowing their innovation

[Acquisitor]

lol you fail your self at readin, you said they cant innovate but there make plenty of innovation. I just said that you just dont realize that them producing mass goods is overshadowing their innovation

can you give a list of amazing MODERN Chinese innovations which spread through the entire world please ?

[RussiaPrussia]

can you give a list of amazing MODERN Chinese innovations which spread through the entire world please ?

can you name me any european one, since 1990?

[Acquisitor]

can you name me any european one, since 1990?

only jews are allowed to use questions as an answer to a question.

(that was a joke, just saying since you are unable to grasp humor)

well the US is the single leading power in world's innovation atm. Japan/South Korea/Germany to a lesser extent.


China is a copying economy, they copied nearly everything from BMW and Benz to Iphone and Rolex. Quite shamelessly.

And when it comes to your dear Russia, they copied most Russian weapons and sell them for a lot less than Russia. And your precious Russia cant do a thing about it.

Hell, Turkey chose Chinese made S-300 copy as its anti aircraft weapon of choice just last month ;)

[RussiaPrussia]

only jews are allowed to use questions as an answer to a question.

(that was a joke, just saying since you are unable to grasp humor)

well the US is the single leading power in world's innovation atm. Japan/South Korea/Germany to a lesser extent.


China is a copying economy, they copied nearly everything from BMW and Benz to Iphone and Rolex. Quite shamelessly.

And when it comes to your dear Russia, they copied most Russian weapons and sell them for a lot less than Russia. And your precious Russia cant do a thing about it.

Hell, Turkey chose Chinese made S-300 copy as its anti aircraft weapon of choice just last month ;)

Exactly and why is it? Because america is abusing its power and hegonomy in the world with their dollar monopoly and mass propaganda into buying only american products.

[Acquisitor]

Exactly and why is it? Because america is abusing its power and hegonomy in the world with their dollar monopoly and mass propaganda into buying only american products.

paranoia.

[RussiaPrussia]

paranoia.

its reality. Youre saying chinese dont innovate but so is everyone else since 1995. Youre just an american slave buying up their propaganda of china being the bad etc

[Acquisitor]

its reality. Youre saying chinese dont innovate but so is everyone else since 1995. Youre just an american slave buying up their propaganda of china being the bad etc

the biggest modern innovation is whats happening online.

not just internet itself which went public in the 90's but:

1) commercial opportunities have exploded, people buy more and more stuff online. Prices in online stores are generally lower due to obvious reasons. Google with its ads and making shops easier to find is a great innovator.

2) social media such as facebook, linkedin and others dramatically improved connection between people who may have otherwise lost contact with each other.

3) iphone = portable internet with a big screen and a quick inbuilt modem.

4) internet is a large database of knowledge, there is lots of it to be found here, our ancestors never dreamed about having nearly ANY relevant knowledge being available at the speed of light.

[RussiaPrussia]

the biggest modern innovation is whats happening online.

not just internet itself which went public in the 90's but:

1) commercial opportunities have exploded, people buy more and more stuff online. Prices in online stores are generally lower due to obvious reasons. Google with its ads and making shops easier to find is a great innovator.

2) social media such as facebook, linkedin and others dramatically improved connection between people who may have otherwise lost contact with each other.

3) iphone = portable internet with a big screen and a quick inbuilt modem.

4) internet is a large database of knowledge, there is lots of it to be found here, our ancestors never dreamed about having nearly ANY relevant knowledge being available at the speed of light.

these innovation could be popularized by others not americans but thats not possible because mass media is only promoting american because they are owned by americans

[Acquisitor]

these innovation could be popularized by others not americans but thats not possible because mass media is only promoting american because they are owned by americans

dont be an idiot please.

American open culture and free thinking promotes innovations, there is also capital to acquire interesting start ups, the country is a land of opportunities, its smart marketing to promote the country like that.

[Loki]

What is mostly holding India back is the caste system, racism and social inequality. There's also inequality in China, but it's not based on ethnicity or class. Anyone in China is able to succeed given an opportunity.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

What is mostly holding India back is the caste system, racism and social inequality. There's also inequality in China, but it's not based on ethnicity or class. Anyone in China is able to succeed given an opportunity.

There's a lot of problems, but mainly they don't have any resources, and they are not really a single united culture but a polyglot that spends all its time trying to stay together and has no energy to do anything else. Kind of like how the european union is headed.

[StonyArabia]

India can measure up to China.

[zhaoyun]

India can measure up to China.

No, it cant. India is not a serious rival to China.

China's serious rival in Asia is the alliance of Japan and the US.

The Japanese, who are racially and culturally very close to China, are a formidable, and very advanced nation. The Japanese-US alliance is the primary force preventing China from completely dominating most of Asia.

India can't even rule itself or provide adequate development for the vast majority of its population, unlike China, Indians are all talk and no action. The vast majority of the Indian population are of an extremely low social and cultural level.

Chinese people think strategically, do not brag, and execute grandiose plans in a short period of time. China is a serious nation. India is not.

[GrebluBro]

India can't even rule itself or provide adequate development for the vast majority of its population, unlike China, Indians are all talk and no action, Chinese people think strategically, do not brag, and execute grandiose plans in a short period of time. China is a serious nation. India is not.

India has its own problems cuz of diversity curse (caste issues are meager if it comes to country's growth)..
The country is huge and its GDP (PPP) is third largest (after the US & China and ahead of Japan) => No country can dictate India

I don't understand in what way India is too different from China in bragging..
GDP growth and poverty reduction rate has been decent, ofc not as great as China.

You should remember, average Chinese is still a poor guy comparing to average European or Japanese..

[zhaoyun]

India has its own problems cuz of diversity curse (caste issues are meager if it comes to country's growth)..
The country is huge and its GDP (PPP) is third largest (after the US & China and ahead of Japan) => No country can dictate India

I don't understand in what way India is too different from China in bragging..
GDP growth and poverty reduction rate has been decent, ofc not as great as China.

You should remember, average Chinese is still a poor guy comparing to average European or Japanese..

Indians are very prone to delusional arrogance and bragging. I often see this on the internet and also in the news.

Wasn't it not too long ago that Manmohan Singh proclaimed that Mumbai would beat Shanghai in a few years? Yet, that time has come and passed and the gap between the two has only widened. If you go to Shanghai today, it is essentially a first world nation in most respects.

Also, not to mention the comparison between the Olympics and the Indian Commonwealth Games where India proclaimed many times that it would be superior to the Beijing Olympics (a laughable idea because no one cares about the Commonwealth games in the first place), yet India was late in building its facilities and there were many issues up to the very start of the games.

I wouldn't even bring this up if it werent for the extreme annoyance I feel constantly reading about Indians' constant bashing on China and East Asian physical features. It seems that every criticism of China is closely followed by racist bashing of East Asian features by Indians. This general perception of mine has also been solidified by the behavior of some Indians on this forum. Also, reading news articles of the discrimination of NE Indians further exemplifies my case.

But in any case, none of what I said was factually untrue. They are all true.

[zhaoyun]

I'm wondering about this. The two countries have a similar population, and have always been rivals in Asia. But recently, with the rise and rise of China, India looks more and more irrelevant. Of course it is not, but I am sure there must be alert in India about it. India is also developing rapidly, but is far behind China already economically, and looks to be falling even further behind. This could eventually lead to a Chinese domination of Asia, even on the Indian subcontinent. Or not?

One thing to remember though, is that China is facing more rivalry from the Koreans and Japanese as well.

Discuss.

Korea is not considered a true rival to China because historically it has often maintained close and friendly relations with China. North Korea is closely tied to China. And South Korea has moved very close to a position of neutrality between its relations with the US and China, part of this is tied to Korea's strong enmity towards Japan, and the fact that Korea's economic interests are tied largely to China's enormous market and growth.

Japan is the only regional nation that is a serious rival to China. It is a great power, and has a very advanced economy, technological capabilities and industrial infrastructure. It's alliance with the US is the primary source of containment for China's aspirations to lead Asia.

I consider Korea and Japan to be the most cultural and racially similar nations to China, and I hold them in very high regard despite some historical enmity. I hope one day the East Asian countries can develop a close and friendly relationship with one another similar to Western Europe. Though I do not see this day coming very soon (perhaps with Korea, but not with Japan).

[LightHouse89]

I doubt it....China is far more powerful....Infact in afew decades they will have the largest navy in the world.

[LightHouse89]

Korea is not considered a true rival to China because historically it has often maintained close and friendly relations with China. North Korea is closely tied to China. And South Korea has moved very close to a position of neutrality between its relations with the US and China, part of this is tied to Korea's strong enmity towards Japan, and the fact that Korea's economic interests are tied largely to China's enormous market and growth.

Japan is the only regional nation that is a serious rival to China. It is a great power, and has a very advanced economy, technological capabilities and industrial infrastructure. It's alliance with the US is the primary source of containment for China's aspirations to lead Asia.

I consider Korea and Japan to be the most cultural and racially similar nations to China, and I hold them in very high regard despite some historical enmity. I hope one day the East Asian countries can develop a close and friendly relationship with one another similar to Western Europe. Though I do not see this day coming very soon (perhaps with Korea, but not with Japan).

Japane militaristically is a joke though compared to China. South Korea and Japan together wouldnt cause much of a dent to China. Maybe if they had India but I think the Chinese are smarter than that.

[zhaoyun]

I doubt it....China is far more powerful....Infact in afew decades they will have the largest navy in the world.

China is far more powerful than India. But the US military will continue to be the most powerful and advanced in the world well into the middle of this century. One can judge simply by looking at the military budgets of respective nations, the US is more than the next 8 countries combined. However, this is also dangerous because the US is spending too much on its military empire and not focusing enough on investing resources at home to build the infrastructure of the future. Although China is still a far less developed country than the US, in many aspects of infrastructure, it is actually well ahead of the US. I think the US should definitely focus more on redeveloping its infrastructure and industries at home, so it can remain very competitive well into the future.

[zhaoyun]

Japane militaristically is a joke though compared to China. South Korea and Japan together wouldnt cause much of a dent to China. Maybe if they had India but I think the Chinese are smarter than that.

Japan's military is not a joke. It is very advanced and very competent. I do not think that China would necessarily win a naval war with Japan at this point, perhaps that would be the case in 10-15 years, but as of now, I would still give the edge to Japan. Japan is a very competent nation, and they have a very strong fighting ability.

I don't think South Korea and China are anywhere near a military conflict. In fact, the two have been getting closer and closer in the last couple decades. I think South Korea is closer to a military conflict with Japan than it is with China, which is a major headache for US efforts to keep South Korea within its security alliance with Japan vis a vis China.

[LightHouse89]

Japan's military is not a joke. It is very advanced and very competent. I do not think that China would necessarily win a naval war with Japan at this point, perhaps that would be the case in 10-15 years, but as of now, I would still give the edge to Japan. Japan is a very competent nation, and they have a very strong fighting ability.

I don't think South Korea and China are anywhere near a military conflict. In fact, the two have been getting closer and closer in the last couple decades. I think South Korea is closer to a military conflict with Japan than it is with China, which is a major headache for US efforts to keep South Korea within its security alliance with Japan vis a vis China.

Oh yes right now. But I sort of meant a ground war between the two my money is on China. Japan maybe with South Korea might stand a chance. You have to look that the Chinese are the only other country other than America or Russia really interested in updating their military and making it more advance.

[LightHouse89]

China is far more powerful than India. But the US military will continue to be the most powerful and advanced in the world well into the middle of this century. One can judge simply by looking at the military budgets of respective nations, the US is more than the next 8 countries combined. However, this is also dangerous because the US is spending too much on its military empire and not focusing enough on investing resources at home to build the infrastructure of the future. Although China is still a far less developed country than the US, in many aspects of infrastructure, it is actually well ahead of the US. I think the US should definitely focus more on redeveloping its infrastructure and industries at home, so it can remain very competitive well into the future.

thats true... American keep Electing the Appeasing party of Liberals which would never think of taping into the nations resources hahaha. I think the Chinese will become advanced militaristically sooner than that. I read that its expected the Chinese Navy will grow in 15 years to close enough to the size of the US navy. I read this in an Army Times Magazine....I will try to find the article it was interesting. They mostly meant Submarines, and smaller ships nothing like giant air force carriers though. The air force carriers are the most dangerous next to submarines that can fire nucelar missles.

[zhaoyun]

Oh yes right now. But I sort of meant a ground war between the two my money is on China. Japan maybe with South Korea might stand a chance. You have to look that the Chinese are the only other country other than America or Russia really interested in updating their military and making it more advance.

Well, no doubt China would crush Japan in a ground war. But Japan won't be getting into any ground wars with China anytime soon.

[zhaoyun]

thats true... American keep Electing the Appeasing party of Liberals which would never think of taping into the nations resources hahaha. I think the Chinese will become advanced militaristically sooner than that. I read that its expected the Chinese Navy will grow in 15 years to close enough to the size of the US navy. I read this in an Army Times Magazine....I will try to find the article it was interesting. They mostly meant Submarines, and smaller ships nothing like giant air force carriers though. The air force carriers are the most dangerous next to submarines that can fire nucelar missles.

I think in terms of sheer size, it is possible that the Chinese navy may rival the US in 15 years. Though I think in logistical terms, in experience, in the quality of its hardware, the US will still be far ahead in 15 years, and even in 25 years.

[Lurker]

Why can't the two countries just coexist peacefully? Their border disputes are in the Himalayas, a region where almost nobody lives in and that doesn't seem to hold much natural resources (it'd be quite a task to mine or extract them as well).

The UK did nothing about the rise of the USA as a greater power than itself. That was because both countries eventually saw that they shared much of the same interests and didn't made a fuss about where their interests clashed (decolonization mainly).

Anyway, India does seem to have a different opinion about Japan than other Asian countries. Bose, the Indian that served as part of the Indian Liberation Army created by the Japanese, is not seem as a war criminal in India, but some kind of misunderstood patriot. Also, the Indian judges sent to the Far East Tribunal after WW2 held many votes that were very different from the ones made by China and the Western countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radhabinod_Pal). And Japan now has a really Indophile Prime Minister. Maybe both of them start liking each other more.

By the way, China's oldest military alliance treaty is with Pakistan. There's a network of alliances in Asia that could indeed lead to a world war, if it actually came to blows.

[zhaoyun]

Why can't the two countries just coexist peacefully? Their border disputes are in the Himalayas, a region where almost nobody lives in and that doesn't seem to hold much natural resources (it'd be quite a task to mine or extract them as well).

The UK did nothing about the rise of the USA as a greater power than itself. That was because both countries eventually saw that they shared much of the same interests and didn't made a fuss about where their interests clashed (decolonization mainly).

Anyway, India does seem to have a different opinion about Japan than other Asian countries. Bose, the Indian that served as part of the Indian Liberation Army created by the Japanese, is not seem as a war criminal in India, but some kind of misunderstood patriot. Also, the Indian judges sent to the Far East Tribunal after WW2 held many votes that were very different from the ones made by China and the Western countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radhabinod_Pal). And Japan now has a really Indophile Prime Minister. Maybe both of them start liking each other more.

By the way, China's oldest military alliance treaty is with Pakistan. There's a network of alliances in Asia that could indeed lead to a world war, if it actually came to blows.

The two countries have been living peaceful since 1962. However, the power balance between the two is largely on China's side and will continue to be well into the future.

Pakistan is one of China's closest allies in the region. In fact, China has India effectively contained because it is building strong links to all of its South Asian neighbors through diplomatic, economic and military initiatives, these include Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Nepal.

[GrebluBro]

Indians are very prone to delusional arrogance and bragging. I often see this on the internet and also in the news.
May be slightly worse than Chinese



Wasn't it not too long ago that Manmohan Singh proclaimed that Mumbai would beat Shanghai in a few years?

you took corrupted Indian politicians words seriously? :rotfl:



not to mention the comparison between the Olympics and the Indian Commonwealth Games where India proclaimed many times that it would be superior to the Beijing Olympics (a laughable idea because no one cares about the Commonwealth games in the first place), yet India was late in building its facilities and there were many issues up to the very start of the games.



Extreme corruption while organizing Commonwealth games, you can read about it in internet..
If it weren't corruption, still India can't match China for a few more decades