Are Georgian Jews converts?

[StonyArabia]

Looking at my Oracle results this what appears quite interesting

Oracle X for world9

My results:

1 Georgia_Jews 89.66%
2 MALAYAN 2.98%
3 ASW30 2.79%
4 Selkup 1.63%
5 Papuan 1.29%
6 Pathan 1.04%
7 Aleut 0.34%
8 Puerto_Rican 0.22%
9 Colombian 0.05%
10 AthabaskHD4 0.00%

1 Georgia_Jews 73.53%
2 Armenian 9.69%
3 MALAYAN 4.23%
4 ASW30 4.11%
5 Samaritians 3.10%
6 Selkup 1.97%
7 Morocco_Jews 1.84%
8 Papuan 1.20%
9 Pathan 0.20%
10 WestGreenland 0.11%

[Smeagol]

Georgian-speaking Jewry is one of the oldest surviving Jewish communities in the world. The Georgian Jews have an approximately 2,600-year history in the region. The origin of Georgian Jews, also known as Gurjim or kartveli ebraelebi, is debated. The most popular view is that the first Jews made their way to southern Georgia after Nebuchadnezzar's conquest of Jerusalem in 586 BCE and exile in Babylon. This claim is supported by the medieval Georgian historical account by Leonti Mroveli, who writes:

[Maleficent]

Don't ask stupid questions, no offense. You have 'strange' results due to your rare half Caucasus half Arabian mixture. The Georgian Jews are a very old community of Jewish people, as far as I know. I would definitely consider them Mizrahi.
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_Jews

My father is genetically quite close to them in his Single Population Sharing on gedmatch, and some of my Mixed Mode Population Sharing is showing me as half Georgian Jew very high on the list; which makes more sense for us than for you.

[StonyArabia]

^ Well in Adyghea we have Mountain Jews who are descendants of Persian converts. I also score several Jewish communities like Uzbek/Bukharan Jews who are Persian converts. However the high Georgian Jewish score that I got made me believe that the Georgian community descent from Caucasian converts to Judaism.

[Sikeliot]

^ Well in Adyghea we have Mountain Jews who are descendants of Persian converts. I also score several Jewish communities like Uzbek/Bukharan Jews who are Persian converts. However the high Georgian Jewish score that I got made me believe that the Georgian community descent from Caucasian converts to Judaism.

That wouldn't make sense. Given your origins, if Georgian Jews were converts, you being half Arabian would not cluster near a full Georgian. Georgian Jews obviously must have Semitic ancestry for you to be close to them.

[Maleficent]

^ Well in Adyghea we have Mountain Jews who are descendants of Persian converts. I also score several Jewish communities like Uzbek/Bukharan Jews who are Persian converts. However the high Georgian Jewish score that I got made me believe that the Georgian community descent from Caucasian converts to Judaism.
I don't think you actually have Jewish ancestry, though. I believe your mixture just makes you genetically close to them.

[riverman]

I don't think you actually have Jewish ancestry, though. I believe your mixture just makes you genetically close to them.

How would you know that.


Alberta what do the other results show

[Anglojew]

Don't ask stupid questions, no offense. You have 'strange' results due to your rare half Caucasus half Arabian mixture. The Georgian Jews are a very old community of Jewish people, as far as I know. I would definitely consider them Mizrahi.
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_Jews

My father is genetically quite close to them in his Single Population Sharing on gedmatch, and some of my Mixed Mode Population Sharing is showing me as half Georgian Jew very high on the list; which makes more sense for us than for you.

I'm sure you're Judean.

[Anglojew]

I don't think you actually have Jewish ancestry, though. I believe your mixture just makes you genetically close to them.

I think he might. I applaud his interest in his ancestral religion.

[riverman]

I'm sure you're Judean.

Uhm, why. Just plotting close to jews makes her Judean? if so you're saying all the jewish markers are Judean... hmm unclear on what you're saying

[Anglojew]

Uhm, why. Just plotting close to jews makes her Judean? if so you're saying all the jewish markers are Judean... hmm unclear on what you're saying

No, because the growing consensus is that the majority of Palestinians are descendants of Islamised Israelites and this is often confirmed genetically. Also, have you seen her dad? He looks like his name should be Horowitz.

[Smeagol]

FaerieQueene, your ancestors were most likely Israelites.

[Maleficent]

How would you know that.

Alberta what do the other results show
He's a nice guy but he has a history of claiming weird things about his ancestry. I'm sure half Irish half Korean plotting with Uyghur truly does have Uyghur ancestry?:roll eyes

I'm sure you're Judean.
Of course.

I think he might. I applaud his interest in his ancestral religion.
I'm all for people getting to know their true ancestral lineage, trust me. I know he claims his mother is descendant of Yemeni Jews(pre-Islam), and he has said before that his Circassian father might have some Jewish ancestry. But he's also claimed weird things like Crimean Tatar, Cossack, and even Native American.

Uhm, why. Just plotting close to jews makes her Judean? if so you're saying all the jewish markers are Judean... hmm unclear on what you're saying
Do you know what you're saying, Riverman? Yeah, I plot with AJ, that's fine. But my father plots with Samaritans on almost every test, if you can't put two and two together then.....

[StonyArabia]

How would you know that.


Alberta what do the other results show

The other results show also interesting results. For example I often score Samartian and Yemenite Jew. The latter makes sense, but the first does not. I also like I have said get Uzbek/Bukhran Jew on many of these results. It's quite interesting and intriguing. I have no Samartian ancestry. Though my relationship to Georgian Jews is might be a combination of Caucasian and Arabian and hence the results.

[Anglojew]

He's a nice guy but he has a history of claiming weird things about his ancestry. I'm sure half Irish half Korean plotting with Uyghur truly does have Uyghur ancestry?:roll eyes

Of course.

I know he claims his mother is descendant of Yemeni Jews(pre-Islam), and he has said before that his Circassian father might have some Jewish ancestry. But he's also claimed weird things like Crimean Tatar, Cossack, and even Native American.

Do you know what you're saying, Riverman? Yeah, I plot with AJ, that's fine. But my father plots with Samaritans on almost every test, if you can't put two and two together then.....

Many Palestinians are descendants of Samaritans and have clan ties with them.



Much of the local Palestinian population of Nablus is believed to be descended from Samaritans who converted to Islam. According to the historian Fayyad Altif, large numbers of Samaritans converted due to persecution under various Muslim rulers, and because the monotheistic nature of Islam made it easy for them to accept it. The Samaritans themselves describe the Ottoman period as the worst period in their modern history, as many Samaritan families were forced to convert their religion to Islam during that time.[44] Even today, certain Nabulsi family names such as Muslimani, Yaish, and Shakshir among others, are associated with Samaritan ancestry.

For the Samaritans in particular, the passing of the al-Hakem Edict by the Fatimids in 1021, under which all Jews and Christians in the Fatimid ruled southern Levant were ordered to either convert to Islam or leave, along with another notable forced conversion to Islam imposed at the hands of the rebel Ibn Firāsa, would contribute to their rapid unprecedented decrease, and ultimately almost complete extinction as a separate religious community. As a result, they have decreased from more than a million in late Roman (Byzantine) times to 150 people by the end of the Ottoman Era.

In 1940, the future Israeli president and historian Yitzhak Ben-Zvi wrote an article in which he stated that two thirds of the residents of Nablus and the surrounding neighboring villages are of Samaritan origin. He mentioned the name of several Palestinian Muslim families as having Samaritan origins, including the Buwarda and Kasem families, who protected Samaritans from Muslim persecution in the 1850s. He further claimed that these families had written records testifying to their Samaritan ancestry, which were maintained by their priests and elders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans

I personally am 25% Mandean according to Eurogenes. This is because "Some scholars, including Kurt Rudolph connect the early Mandaeans with the Jewish sect of the Nasoraeans."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandaeans

[Kiyant]

Georgian jews hmm dont know about them much but i think our Ahiska jews were different.

[Anglojew]

Your dad reminds me of a specific Jewish person FQ. I can't exactly remember who but he's not dissimilar from David Horowitz (although there's someone who looks identical to him but I can't remember);

http://www.wnd.com/images2/davidhorowitz.jpg

[StonyArabia]

I'm all for people getting to know their true ancestral lineage, trust me. I know he claims his mother is descendant of Yemeni Jews(pre-Islam), and he has said before that his Circassian father might have some Jewish ancestry. But he's also claimed weird things like Crimean Tatar, Cossack, and even Native American.


I have distant Crimean ancestry, the rest was trolling and doing parodies especially to troll on ABF. My mom's family were Yemenite Jews who converted to Islam. I just found that our recently since they descent from the Kindah.

[Sikeliot]

Do you know what you're saying, Riverman? Yeah, I plot with AJ, that's fine. But my father plots with Samaritans on almost every test, if you can't put two and two together then.....

Interesting thing is that some Sicilians do too on Dodecad Oracle. Others, however, get "Lebanese_Christian" in replace of Samaritan.

FaerieQueene are these similar to your results by any chance?


Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.77
2 West_Med 18.42
3 North_Sea 14.86
4 West_Asian 11.81
5 Red_Sea 7.38
6 Atlantic 7.23
7 Eastern_Euro 2.56
8 Baltic 2.51
9 Sub-Saharan 1.55
10 Amerindian 0.90

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi @ 10.993
2 Sephardic_Jewish @ 12.598
3 Cyprian @ 17.007
4 Greek @ 17.947
5 Tuscan @ 18.450
6 Syrian @ 20.336
7 Lebanese_Muslim @ 20.395
8 Samaritan @ 21.838
9 Jordanian @ 22.122
10 Palestinian @ 23.124

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Christian +50% North_Italian @ 8.957
2 50% Lebanese_Christian +50% Spanish_Galicia @ 8.995
3 50% Lebanese_Druze +50% Spanish_Galicia @ 9.256
4 50% North_Italian +50% Samaritan @ 9.301
5 50% Lebanese_Druze +50% North_Italian @ 9.342
6 50% Samaritan +50% Tuscan @ 9.452
7 50% Lebanese_Christian +50% Portuguese @ 9.556
8 50% Lebanese_Christian +50% Tuscan @ 9.633
9 50% Lebanese_Druze +50% Portuguese @ 9.926
10 50% Lebanese_Druze +50% Tuscan @ 10.032

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Norwegian +25% Sardinian @ 8.119
2 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Sardinian +25% Swedish @ 8.126
3 50% Lebanese_Christian +25% Sardinian +25% Swedish @ 8.193
4 50% Lebanese_Christian +25% Spanish_Galicia +25% Tuscan @ 8.219
5 50% Lebanese_Christian +25% Norwegian +25% Sardinian @ 8.224
6 50% Lebanese_Christian +25% Ashkenazi +25% Spanish_Galicia @ 8.338
7 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Dutch +25% Sardinian @ 8.391
8 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Orcadian +25% Sardinian @ 8.406
9 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% North_Swedish +25% Sardinian @ 8.441
10 50% Lebanese_Christian +25% North_Swedish +25% Sardinian @ 8.479

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Swedish @ 8.003
2 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Norwegian + Sardinian @ 8.015
3 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Norwegian + Sardinian @ 8.119
4 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Swedish @ 8.126
5 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Sardinian + Swedish @ 8.193
6 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Spanish_Galicia + Tuscan @ 8.219
7 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Norwegian + Sardinian @ 8.224
8 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Galicia + Tuscan @ 8.257
9 Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Druze + Samaritan + Spanish_Galicia @ 8.302
10 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Sardinian @ 8.306
11 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + North_Swedish + Sardinian @ 8.309
12 Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Christian + Samaritan + Spanish_Galicia @ 8.334
13 Lebanese_Druze + Samaritan + Spanish_Galicia + Tuscan @ 8.338
14 Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Spanish_Galicia @ 8.338
15 Dutch + Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian @ 8.391
16 Dutch + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian @ 8.397
17 Ashkenazi + Cyprian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Galicia @ 8.401
18 Lebanese_Christian + Samaritan + Spanish_Galicia + Tuscan @ 8.403
19 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Sardinian @ 8.406
20 Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Galicia @ 8.409

Oracle X

Pct. Calc. Option 2

1 Ashkenazi 53.01%
2 Lebanese_Druze 12.78%
3 Sardinian 6.81%
4 Algerian 6.69%
5 Lebanese_Christian 5.89%
6 Samaritan 5.77%
7 Spanish_Galicia 5.06%
8 Orcadian 2.89%
9 Norwegian 1.09%
10 Tuscan 0.01%

[Maleficent]

FaerieQueene, your ancestors were most likely Israelites.
I always knew that.

Many Palestinians are descendants of Samaritans and have clan ties with them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans
I personally am 25% Mandean according to Eurogenes. This is because "Some scholars, including Kurt Rudolph connect the early Mandaeans with the Jewish sect of the Nasoraeans."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandaeans
I know, I was being sarcastic at Riverman since he was being strange again.

Your dad reminds me of a specific Jewish person FQ. I can't exactly remember who but he's not dissimilar from David Horowitz (although there's someone who looks identical to him but I can't remember);
http://www.wnd.com/images2/davidhorowitz.jpg
Hmm, I don't see the resemblance, lol.

I have distant Crimean ancestry, the rest was trolling and doing parodies especially to troll on ABF. My mom's family were Yemenite Jews who converted to Islam. I just found that our recently since they descent from the Kindah.
Ok bro, that's cool you know your real ancestry. I see you were trolling before on the other stuff.

[Sikeliot]

What is clear is that some Middle Eastern ethnic groups (Lebanese, Palestinians, Samaritans, Assyrians) are faithful to the pre-Islamic character of the region, while others such as Iraqis, Jordanians, many Syrians etc. have strong Arabian bloodlines.

[StonyArabia]

What is clear is that some Middle Eastern ethnic groups (Lebanese, Palestinians, Samaritans, Assyrians) are faithful to the pre-Islamic character of the region, while others such as Iraqis, Jordanians, many Syrians etc. have strong Arabian bloodlines.

Jordanians and Iraqis are Arabian indeed. Jordan has been for a long time inhabited by Arabian tribes long before the rise of Islam. Iraq there was according to many a demographic shift due to the Mongols which the Arabian tribes settled as there was almost nothing left and the area was Desertified.

Only Southern Syrians basically the borders near Jordan and the Syrian Desert region where you will find Arabian peoples, the rest of Syria is local people with some diluted Ghassanid lineage.

[Smeagol]

What is clear is that some Middle Eastern ethnic groups (Lebanese, Palestinians, Samaritans, Assyrians) are faithful to the pre-Islamic character of the region, while others such as Iraqis, Jordanians, many Syrians etc. have strong Arabian bloodlines.

Muslim Palestinians, and to a lesser degree Muslim Lebanese are not faithful to the pre-Islamic character of the region.

[Sikeliot]

Muslim Palestinians, and to a lesser degree Muslim Lebanese are not faithful to the pre-Islamic character of the region.

I thought Muslim Lebanese didn't have much Arab ancestry and were just converts.

[Maleficent]

Interesting thing is that some Sicilians do too on Dodecad Oracle. Others, however, get "Lebanese_Christian" in replace of Samaritan.

FaerieQueene are these similar to your results by any chance?


Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.77
2 West_Med 18.42
3 North_Sea 14.86
4 West_Asian 11.81
5 Red_Sea 7.38
6 Atlantic 7.23
7 Eastern_Euro 2.56
8 Baltic 2.51
9 Sub-Saharan 1.55
10 Amerindian 0.90

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi @ 10.993
2 Sephardic_Jewish @ 12.598
3 Cyprian @ 17.007
4 Greek @ 17.947
5 Tuscan @ 18.450
6 Syrian @ 20.336
7 Lebanese_Muslim @ 20.395
8 Samaritan @ 21.838
9 Jordanian @ 22.122
10 Palestinian @ 23.124

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Christian +50% North_Italian @ 8.957
2 50% Lebanese_Christian +50% Spanish_Galicia @ 8.995
3 50% Lebanese_Druze +50% Spanish_Galicia @ 9.256
4 50% North_Italian +50% Samaritan @ 9.301
5 50% Lebanese_Druze +50% North_Italian @ 9.342
6 50% Samaritan +50% Tuscan @ 9.452
7 50% Lebanese_Christian +50% Portuguese @ 9.556
8 50% Lebanese_Christian +50% Tuscan @ 9.633
9 50% Lebanese_Druze +50% Portuguese @ 9.926
10 50% Lebanese_Druze +50% Tuscan @ 10.032

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Norwegian +25% Sardinian @ 8.119
2 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Sardinian +25% Swedish @ 8.126
3 50% Lebanese_Christian +25% Sardinian +25% Swedish @ 8.193
4 50% Lebanese_Christian +25% Spanish_Galicia +25% Tuscan @ 8.219
5 50% Lebanese_Christian +25% Norwegian +25% Sardinian @ 8.224
6 50% Lebanese_Christian +25% Ashkenazi +25% Spanish_Galicia @ 8.338
7 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Dutch +25% Sardinian @ 8.391
8 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Orcadian +25% Sardinian @ 8.406
9 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% North_Swedish +25% Sardinian @ 8.441
10 50% Lebanese_Christian +25% North_Swedish +25% Sardinian @ 8.479

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Swedish @ 8.003
2 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Norwegian + Sardinian @ 8.015
3 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Norwegian + Sardinian @ 8.119
4 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Swedish @ 8.126
5 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Sardinian + Swedish @ 8.193
6 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Spanish_Galicia + Tuscan @ 8.219
7 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Norwegian + Sardinian @ 8.224
8 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Galicia + Tuscan @ 8.257
9 Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Druze + Samaritan + Spanish_Galicia @ 8.302
10 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Sardinian @ 8.306
11 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + North_Swedish + Sardinian @ 8.309
12 Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Christian + Samaritan + Spanish_Galicia @ 8.334
13 Lebanese_Druze + Samaritan + Spanish_Galicia + Tuscan @ 8.338
14 Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Spanish_Galicia @ 8.338
15 Dutch + Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian @ 8.391
16 Dutch + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian @ 8.397
17 Ashkenazi + Cyprian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Galicia @ 8.401
18 Lebanese_Christian + Samaritan + Spanish_Galicia + Tuscan @ 8.403
19 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Sardinian @ 8.406
20 Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Galicia @ 8.409

Oracle X

Pct. Calc. Option 2

1 Ashkenazi 53.01%
2 Lebanese_Druze 12.78%
3 Sardinian 6.81%
4 Algerian 6.69%
5 Lebanese_Christian 5.89%
6 Samaritan 5.77%
7 Spanish_Galicia 5.06%
8 Orcadian 2.89%
9 Norwegian 1.09%
10 Tuscan 0.01%

Well yeah, Sicilian/Greek/AJ all seem to be very similar and I cluster with them.

I assume that is the new K15. I think those Sicilian results are a little more 'near-eastern' than mine. Here is mine:

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.86
2 North_Sea 18.11
3 Atlantic 17.23
4 West_Med 11.27
5 West_Asian 10.67
6 Red_Sea 7.64
7 Eastern_Euro 5.07
8 Northeast_African 1.84
9 South_Asian 1.30

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi @ 13.240
2 Tuscan @ 13.841
3 Sephardic_Jewish @ 16.747
4 Greek @ 17.559
5 North_Italian @ 18.979
6 Bulgarian @ 21.666
7 Romanian @ 22.016
8 Serbian @ 23.225
9 Spanish_Extremadura @ 24.231
10 Portuguese @ 24.537

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Christian +50% Southeast_English @ 6.456
2 50% Lebanese_Christian +50% Southwest_English @ 6.486
3 50% Samaritan +50% Southeast_English @ 6.587
4 50% French +50% Lebanese_Druze @ 6.595
5 50% French +50% Palestinian @ 6.690
6 50% Samaritan +50% Southwest_English @ 6.799
7 50% Lebanese_Druze +50% Southwest_English @ 6.868
8 50% Danish +50% Lebanese_Christian @ 6.999
9 50% Danish +50% Samaritan @ 7.065
10 50% Palestinian +50% Southwest_English @ 7.084

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Orcadian +25% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.541
2 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Orcadian +25% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5.581
3 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Spanish_Extremadura +25% West_Scottish @ 5.668
4 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Orcadian +25% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5.685
5 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Orcadian +25% Spanish_Murcia @ 5.712
6 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Orcadian +25% Spanish_Aragon @ 5.738
7 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Danish +25% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.772
8 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Portuguese +25% West_Scottish @ 5.811
9 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Orcadian +25% Portuguese @ 5.821
10 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Spanish_Galicia +25% West_Scottish @ 5.852

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Palestinian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.174
2 Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Palestinian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5.208
3 Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Palestinian + Spanish_Murcia @ 5.211
4 Lebanese_Druze + Palestinian + Spanish_Extremadura + West_Scottish @ 5.365
5 Jordanian + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Spanish_Murcia @ 5.390
6 Jordanian + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.398
7 Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Palestinian + Spanish_Aragon @ 5.406
8 Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Palestinian + Portuguese @ 5.433
9 Jordanian + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5.441
10 Danish + Lebanese_Druze + Palestinian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.445
11 Lebanese_Druze + Palestinian + Spanish_Murcia + West_Scottish @ 5.455
12 Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Palestinian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 5.459
13 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Palestinian + Spanish_Murcia @ 5.470
14 Lebanese_Druze + Palestinian + Portuguese + West_Scottish @ 5.478
15 Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Palestinian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.504
16 Danish + Lebanese_Druze + Palestinian + Spanish_Murcia @ 5.519
17 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.528
18 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.541
19 Jordanian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Extremadura + West_Scottish @ 5.543
20 Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Samaritan + Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.544

Pct. Calc. Option 2

0 Unable to determine 0.01%
1 Ashkenazi 47.50%
2 West_Scottish 14.32%
3 Yemenite_Jewish 8.24%
4 Sephardic_Jewish 7.05%
5 Spanish_Murcia 6.70%
6 Southeast_English 4.94%
7 Lebanese_Druze 4.52%
8 Orcadian 3.63%
9 Palestinian 2.02%
10 Jordanian 1.08%

[Smeagol]

I thought Muslim Lebanese didn't have much Arab ancestry and were just converts.

They have Arab ancestry too, they're on average darker, and more Arabid than the Christians.

[riverman]

Do you know what you're saying, Riverman? Yeah, I plot with AJ, that's fine. But my father plots with Samaritans on almost every test, if you can't put two and two together then.....

Put what together, Anglojew said you were probably Judean, I questioned him as to what he meant. Why don't you enlighten us on what those results mean.

[riverman]

I know, I was being sarcastic at Riverman since he was being strange again.



"Strange"? Anglojew said 'Judean', not 'Israelite'. Maybe figure out what's being said before calling people strange, huh.

[Maleficent]

"Strange"? Anglojew said 'Judean', not 'Israelite'. Maybe figure out what's being said before calling people strange, huh.

When you're right, you're right. My mistake. The area historically known as 'Judea' in ancient times was south of Jerusalem where Bethlehem, Hebron, and Beersheba is. My grandparents hometown is just north of Jerusalem.

[Trun]

Well yeah, Sicilian/Greek/AJ all seem to be very similar and I cluster with them.

Depends which Greek. Greeks are diverse genetically.

[Maleficent]

Depends which Greek. Greeks are diverse genetically.

I guess maybe Cretians and such?

[Trun]

I guess maybe Cretians and such?

Islanders yes. Mainland Greeks are more northern genetically, those from Epirus, Macedonia and Thrace cluster between Bulgarians/Romanians and Albanians.

[Maleficent]

Islanders yes. Mainland Greeks are more northern genetically, those from Epirus, Macedonia and Thrace cluster between Bulgarians/Romanians and Albanians.
As I said before, my genetic similarity is closest overall with Greeks at a population distance of only about 3 points. So I guess that means Islanders for me.:)

[Trun]

As I said before, my genetic similarity is closest overall with Greeks at a population distance of only about 3 points. So I guess that means Islanders for me.:)

Greek average is between mainland Greeks and rest of Greeks (islands and West Asia).

[Maleficent]

Greek average is between mainland Greeks and rest of Greeks (islands and West Asia).

Ok, thanks for telling me.:)

[Kiyant]

It looks like caucasus jews are a really mixed brunch (Mizrahi/Persian/Turkic)

[ZephyrousMandaru]

You need to stop viewing your population approximations too literally. They don't suggest, at all, that the populations being selected to typify your genotype, are the populations you're descended from. This one Mexican guy had Kazakh as his top population, followed by a list of other Central Asian ethnic groups. Why?

Because Kazakhs despite being a poor choice, had to be used as a substitute for what his ancestry was. Which was essentially a mix of European (Spanish) and Native American alleles. Hence creating the illusion that his genotype was "Kazakh-like".

[Zroota]

I also got a high reading of Georgian Jewish. Even more so than my own ethnicity. Does this usually happen with other ethnic groups (say, an Irish getting English or Scottish first, or a Dutch having German listed first)? :confused:

https://i.postimg.cc/HkxQL5mD/ged.png

[Pine]

I also got a high reading of Georgian Jewish. Even more so than my own ethnicity. Does this usually happen with other ethnic groups (say, an Irish getting English or Scottish first, or a Dutch having German listed first)? :confused:

https://i.postimg.cc/HkxQL5mD/ged.png

Georgian Jews belong to the Eastern (Babylonian) Jewish cluster, which overlaps a lot with Assyrians.

[PaleoEuropean]

Looking at my Oracle results this what appears quite interesting

Oracle X for world9

My results:

1 Georgia_Jews 89.66%
2 MALAYAN 2.98%
3 ASW30 2.79%
4 Selkup 1.63%
5 Papuan 1.29%
6 Pathan 1.04%
7 Aleut 0.34%
8 Puerto_Rican 0.22%
9 Colombian 0.05%
10 AthabaskHD4 0.00%

1 Georgia_Jews 73.53%
2 Armenian 9.69%
3 MALAYAN 4.23%
4 ASW30 4.11%
5 Samaritians 3.10%
6 Selkup 1.97%
7 Morocco_Jews 1.84%
8 Papuan 1.20%
9 Pathan 0.20%
10 WestGreenland 0.11%

Georgian Jews group with Iranian Jews so I doubt it.

[Zroota]

Georgian Jews belong to the Eastern (Babylonian) Jewish cluster, which overlaps a lot with Assyrians.
I guess that figures, because Babylonians were from Mesopotamia, and have had intermixed with ancient Assyrians/Akkadians.

[Voskos]

Yes.

[FinalFlash]

Possibly. They've probably mixed with Caucasians to a degree since they cluster closest to Assyrians than even to Iraqi or Kurdish Jews. They even have some steppe admixture compared to their steppe-bereft Mesopotamian counterparts.

[Pine]

I guess that figures, because Babylonians were from Mesopotamia, and have had intermixed with ancient Assyrians/Akkadians.

You're taking the "Babylonian" too seriously; that's simply what the cluster is called because all of them were Babylonian Jews who either remained in Babylon or spread a bit further north, like Georgia. The reason why Assyrians overlap with the Babylonian cluster is owed due to some combination of the following: both coming from a mixture of Levantines and West Asians, Babylonian Jews picking up Assyrian admixture, Assyrians picking up Jewish admixture.

[Leto]

Georgian_Jewish from Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 36.59
2 West_Asian 36.22
3 West_Med 10.91
4 Red_Sea 8.26
5 Baltic 3.28
6 South_Asian 2.98
7 North_Atlantic 0.77
8 East_Asian 0.37
9 Amerindian 0.26
10 Oceanian 0.16
11 Northeast_African 0.11
12 Siberian 0.09


K15

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 36.66
2 West_Asian 35.22
3 Red_Sea 8.06
4 West_Med 6.95
5 Eastern_Euro 2.91
6 South_Asian 2.77
7 Atlantic 2.67
8 North_Sea 2.27
9 Baltic 1.63
10 Northeast_African 0.29
11 Southeast_Asian 0.17
12 Amerindian 0.16
13 Oceanian 0.11
14 Siberian 0.10
15 Sub-Saharan 0.04

They don't seem to be Judaized Georgians.

[Pine]

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-23a6b1422822ef84469b3b8729d36ca5

[Zroota]

You're taking the "Babylonian" too seriously; that's simply what the cluster is called because all of them were Babylonian Jews who either remained in Babylon or spread a bit further north, like Georgia. The reason why Assyrians overlap with the Babylonian cluster is owed due to some combination of the following: both coming from a mixture of Levantines and West Asians, Babylonian Jews picking up Assyrian admixture, Assyrians picking up Jewish admixture.
It's not that I took it "seriously". I was just certain that (ancient) Jews from Babylon may have naturally mixed with the local population, who were our ancestors. Hence the reason why modern Assyrians cluster very close with them, or the 'Babylonian Jews'.

[FinalFlash]

Georgian_Jewish from Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 36.59
2 West_Asian 36.22
3 West_Med 10.91
4 Red_Sea 8.26
5 Baltic 3.28
6 South_Asian 2.98
7 North_Atlantic 0.77
8 East_Asian 0.37
9 Amerindian 0.26
10 Oceanian 0.16
11 Northeast_African 0.11
12 Siberian 0.09


K15

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 36.66
2 West_Asian 35.22
3 Red_Sea 8.06
4 West_Med 6.95
5 Eastern_Euro 2.91
6 South_Asian 2.77
7 Atlantic 2.67
8 North_Sea 2.27
9 Baltic 1.63
10 Northeast_African 0.29
11 Southeast_Asian 0.17
12 Amerindian 0.16
13 Oceanian 0.11
14 Siberian 0.10
15 Sub-Saharan 0.04

They don't seem to be Judaized Georgians.

K13 and K15 are crap when it comes to West Asia. Eurogenes k12b is by far the most accurate one. Post his k12b if you can.

[Mesoman]

Yes, Georgian Jews are converts, but not Georgian converts, rather ancient Babylonian and/or Assyrian converts. It also definitely shows up in our DNA.

[Mesoman]

Georgian_Jewish from Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 36.59
2 West_Asian 36.22
3 West_Med 10.91
4 Red_Sea 8.26
5 Baltic 3.28
6 South_Asian 2.98
7 North_Atlantic 0.77
8 East_Asian 0.37
9 Amerindian 0.26
10 Oceanian 0.16
11 Northeast_African 0.11
12 Siberian 0.09


K15

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 36.66
2 West_Asian 35.22
3 Red_Sea 8.06
4 West_Med 6.95
5 Eastern_Euro 2.91
6 South_Asian 2.77
7 Atlantic 2.67
8 North_Sea 2.27
9 Baltic 1.63
10 Northeast_African 0.29
11 Southeast_Asian 0.17
12 Amerindian 0.16
13 Oceanian 0.11
14 Siberian 0.10
15 Sub-Saharan 0.04

They don't seem to be Judaized Georgians.

I didn't expect this individual to score this much red sea, especially when his east med and west asian scores are even.

[Leto]

I didn't expect this individual to score this much red sea, especially when his east med and west asian scores are even.
That's not an individual but an average. Don't know how many samples were used. Of course the Red Sea would be high because all Jews have a lot of Middle Eastern blood.

[Mesoman]

That's not an individual but an average. Don't know how many samples were used. Of course the Red Sea would be high because all Jews have a lot of Middle Eastern blood.

It also depends where the middle eastern blood comes from. Mizrahim on average do score more west Asian than Levantine. I may be wrong, but it seems that Georgian Jews are on par with western Armenians when it comes to the distribution of East med and West asian. I have seen a similar result in a western Armenian before. It might be possible that a random Georgian jew is more northwest Iranian, south-eastern Turkey shifted than a random Iraqi Assyrian, but we are pretty much interchangeable.

[chinshen]

It also depends where the middle eastern blood comes from. Mizrahim on average do score more west Asian than Levantine. I may be wrong, but it seems that Georgian Jews are on par with western Armenians when it comes to the distribution of East med and West asian. I have seen a similar result in a western Armenian before. It might be possible that a random Georgian jew is more northwest Iranian, south-eastern Turkey shifted than a random Iraqi Assyrian, but we are pretty much interchangeable.

Just curious, how does the Y-DNA & the mtDNA distribution among Georgian Jews compare to Assyrians?

[SUPREEEEEME]

This is largely how I model them nowadays:

Target: Georgian_Jew
Distance: 1.6494% / 0.01649408
61.4 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
31.8 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
6.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2

[Mesoman]

This is largely how I model them nowadays:

Target: Georgian_Jew
Distance: 1.6494% / 0.01649408
61.4 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
31.8 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
6.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2

How do you model assyrians and mandaeans?

[Roy]

I also got a high reading of Georgian Jewish. Even more so than my own ethnicity. Does this usually happen with other ethnic groups (say, an Irish getting English or Scottish first, or a Dutch having German listed first)? :confused:

https://i.postimg.cc/HkxQL5mD/ged.png

It happens a lot with many ethnicities.

[Leto]

Davidski's "gold standard"

Target: Assyrian
Distance: 2.0155% / 0.02015535
43.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
22.8 Levant_PPNB
14.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
4.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.2 Han


Target: Georgian_Jew
Distance: 1.9637% / 0.01963679
40.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
24.6 Levant_PPNB
13.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.4 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
7.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.6 Han

Indeed extremely similar.

[Mesoman]

Davidski's "gold standard"

Target: Assyrian
Distance: 2.0155% / 0.02015535
43.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
22.8 Levant_PPNB
14.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
4.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.2 Han


Target: Georgian_Jew
Distance: 1.9637% / 0.01963679
40.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
24.6 Levant_PPNB
13.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.4 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
7.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.6 Han

Indeed extremely similar.

Azeri Jewish model would also be quite interesting, since they also get similar results to Assyrians.

[SUPREEEEEME]

How do you model assyrians and mandaeans?

3-way models:

Target: Assyrian
Distance: 1.0481% / 0.01048093 | R3P
45.0 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
31.6 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
23.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic

Target: Mandean
Distance: 1.4881% / 0.01488080 | R3P
48.8 Levant_Sidon_MBA
45.2 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
6.0 PAK_Katelai_LBA

Target: Georgian_Jew
Distance: 1.0521% / 0.01052076 | R3P
64.6 TUR_Alalakh_MLBA
24.2 RUS_Alan_MA
11.2 TKM_Parkhai_EBA

Target: Azerbaijani_Jew
Distance: 1.1618% / 0.01161800 | R3P
49.4 TUR_Alalakh_MLBA
31.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
19.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA

Target: Kurdish_Jew
Distance: 1.0250% / 0.01024984 | R3P
49.8 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
28.6 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
21.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C

[Leto]

This is largely how I model them nowadays:

Target: Georgian_Jew
Distance: 1.6494% / 0.01649408
61.4 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
31.8 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
6.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
How would you estimate the Levantine ancestry in Ashkenazim and Sephardim?

[SUPREEEEEME]

How would you estimate the Levantine ancestry in Ashkenazim and Sephardim?


Target: Sephardic_Jew
Distance: 1.2139% / 0.01213877
49.4 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
31.6 HRV_IA
11.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
8.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA

Target: Ashkenazi_Poland
Distance: 0.7560% / 0.00756040
45.0 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
29.4 HRV_IA
8.8 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
6.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
5.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
4.4 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
1.4 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

[Leto]

Target: Sephardic_Jew
Distance: 1.2139% / 0.01213877
49.4 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
31.6 HRV_IA
11.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
8.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA

Target: Ashkenazi_Poland
Distance: 0.7560% / 0.00756040
45.0 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
29.4 HRV_IA
8.8 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
6.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
5.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
4.4 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
1.4 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic
Interesting. What is HRV?

[Pine]

Davidski's "gold standard"

Target: Assyrian
Distance: 2.0155% / 0.02015535
43.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
22.8 Levant_PPNB
14.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
4.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.2 Han


Target: Georgian_Jew
Distance: 1.9637% / 0.01963679
40.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
24.6 Levant_PPNB
13.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.4 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
7.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.6 Han

Indeed extremely similar.

Partly coincidental, since Georgian Jews are largely Babylonian Jews shifted by some Caucasian and some Western Jewish (likely Byzantine Jewish).

https://i.imgur.com/CfvW80N.png

[happycow]

Partly coincidental, since Georgian Jews are largely Babylonian Jews shifted by some Caucasian and some Western Jewish (likely Byzantine Jewish).

https://i.imgur.com/CfvW80N.png

Pine! Where have you been?? :)

[SUPREEEEEME]

Interesting. What is HRV?

Effectively a mainland Greek/Balkan source.