Why the Prehistoric Northern Europeans were not so uncivilized after all...

[The Lawspeaker]

The Northern Europeans although not as technologically advanced as the Romans, Greeks or Egyptians certainly were no little people when it came to wealth and achievements.
Let me tell you something that I found in a book about Dutch history.

http://www.rug.nl/cit/hpcv/vr_visualisation/art_exhibitions/van_giffen/VanGiffen_1_600.jpg

http://www.mavodesaad.nl/gs/dantumadeel%20toen%20en%20nu/maquettes/terpboerderij%20ezinge%201020.jpg
Reconstruction and picture of the village of Ezinge, the Netherlands.

About the Frisians (in what is now the western and northern Netherlands including Frisia) around 500 BC this was written:

"This will be the place!" as the chieftains pointed out. A village is being constructed. They build farms that were sized 6 by 13 metres. Between the living quarters a small wall is build from thatched willow branches- finished off with clay.
In the stables there are boxes for the cattle on both sides of a walkway.
Every now and then traveling merchants visit the remote farmsteads and in the north.
They trade tools, jewelry and bronze or iron weapons for skins, textiles and wool.
While the men run the farmsteads, hunt or fish the women weave warm, sturdy textiles for clothes and cover. In this fashion two centuries pass.

Jaap Ter Haar- Geschiedenis der Lage Landen (page 66).

http://www.rmo.nl/tijdbalk/afb/_350/015649.jpg

Another nice Celtic find., a silver vase (First Century BC), found in 1828 at Neerharen, Belgium.

Another quote:

"An impoverished people, that during the low tide chases after the stranded fish and during high tide looks for safety and comfort on man-made hills" according to Greek and Roman historians like Pytheas and Pliny the Elder in their ancient chronicles about the Frisian people.
"Living in the mud they make fire from this mud (peat) in order to warm up their cold miserable intestines. During flash floods they look for cover on their man-made hills like the shipwrecked, surrounded by water on all sides. They have no taxes to pay because the sea steals what little they possess."

Pytheas and Pliny have shown themselves to be unreliable reporters when it comes to the Frisians. During the excavation of the famous terp (man-made hill) at Ezinge- 450 meters long, 5.5 meters high !- did people, after the removal of 25.000 tons of earth, find a different picture of the Frisians. They have lived there during three time periods. Build on the terp were farmsteads that were 17 meters long and 7 meters wide- with barns that provided enough space to shelter 50 to 70 cows or other livestock. The men wore sleeved vests or doublets and long trousers. On top of that they wore long, loose cloaks that were fastened with a pin. With iron and bronze did the Frisian blacksmiths made their tools and small weapons. A nozzle belonging to a bellows was found between the slags and sintels (?). With a white paste the women decorated their black, polished earthenware with geometric shapes.
An impoverished people ?
The written sources of history usually are unreliable but the finds from the prehistory made during excavations tell the truth.

Jaap ter Haar- Geschiedenis der Lage Landen (page 70)

Don't ever call our ancestors barbarians again. What Romans, Greeks and later on Christians wrote about our Northern ancestors is nothing more then a blatant lie.


(Anyways sorry for any grammatical errors. I translated it as best I could).


http://www.nieuwegein.nl/files/5552/02%20zwaard%20-%209029.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Zwaard_van_Jutphaas.jpg

Het Zwaard van Jutphaas- The Jutphaas Sword.

Found shortly after WW2 at Jutphaas (now Nieuwegein), the Netherlands. This sword is 3500 (!) years old. Made from a copper and tin alloy. It was made by a real craftsman and the perfect condition in which it was found is incredible. Note that this was made between 1700 and 1500 BC.

It was never meant for fighting and there is no hilt attached to it and it probably served a sacrificial purpose.
Only 5 of those swords were found all over Europe- in England, France and the Netherlands.




Let's use this thread to debate the merits of pre-Roman Northern and Western European culture and archaeological finds.

[Bjólf]

The "primitive uncivilized" prehistoric northern europeans (europeans for that matter) is a long lived traditional thought from the 19th and early 20th century, in the archaeological academia that view is dead, replaced by "peaceful equality loving treehugging proto-hippies" (which ofcourse isn't all right either).

The biggest threat to scientific archaeology today is (believe it or not) radical feminism.

[Thulsa Doom]

The biggest threat to scientific archaeology today is (believe it or not) radical feminism.

Say ,you don´t have an example of such an incident?:D

[Amapola]

:D

[Bjólf]

Say ,you don´t have an example of such an incident?:D

Yes ofcourse, lets take our history as a example...take for example the journalist Maja Hagerman and her shitty books. There you can find "what is in" in the academics circles (strangely, since she is not a scientist, just a little poo-pee girl who got where she is because of her daddy). In her books you'll find that heathen norsemen are yucky and ucky, and historical incorrect. Thus they should be left out of the history books to be replaced by cute portrayals of foreign missionairys who invoke the stupid norsemen with the might of civilisation and christianity. Ofcourse women had the major part of this, because the norsemen were just stupid, and too weak to bear arms. In her books (which astonishing enough have been praised by "the intellectual minds" - or rather her other media humping fatsos), we follow how Sweden was just a black spot on the map, with no history so to speak, and no such thing as organized civilisation. Sweden's history begins when the pope and some monks in the far north of the German-Roman Empire thought that a trip to the cold north would be cool, thus bringing civilisation and all there is to Sweden. Remember, norsemen with weapons are just a construction by mean racists from the 19th century.

This thing about christianity and swedish history, spiced with feminism, is kinda interesting. Christianity is cool, christianity is KG Hammar with female priests who march in Pride and hides immigrant children from war torned countries. pre-christian mythology is out, it is commersial New Age-hoaxs, anti-feministic and screaming WT-racists with thors hammer around the neck.

Jesus is a pacifistic and socialistic hippie from Palestine, who ofcourse "free'd" women from oppression. Remember also that Palestine today is embraced by Islam, the new hip religion, with many swedish women embracing it. pre-christian religion by contrast is bloodthristy male wargods with beards and beer bellies, which are half-constructed ideals by mean white heterosexual men, who hate women, and not hip like christianity with their female priests and gay marriages.

[Brännvin]

The biggest threat to scientific archaeology today is (believe it or not) radical feminism.

You don't need to be so radical :D..however, I bet that cultural marxism or better cultural relativism is the biggest problem (feminism is a product that in itself), not only in archeological studies..

[Thulsa Doom]

Ahh, Maja Hagerman:comp26:

What a shitty program that was.

Good thing that I don´t pay the TV license.

[Bjólf]

You don't need to be so radical :D..however, I bet that cultural marxism or better cultural relativism is the biggest problem (feminism is a product that in itself), not only in archeological studies..

The problem is the "hippie generation", who today bookmark the "this is right" button on our society. Migration period, warlike germanic people, vikings, hierachy etc are just products of old white racist men who sit inside their houses and don't get out. Nowadays it is that (atleast according to Donald Duck University opinion) that the "viking" is one of many post-colonial/gender problematic/hetero-normative "narration", that evil-white-straight-capitalistic-racist-old aged men have constructed in their diabolic plan to besiege their cultural "hegemony" and therefor avoid such important - nowadays intellectual topics - like HBT, affirmative actions and that massimmigration is "cool".

[Osweo]

The Berlin Gold Hat or Berlin Golden Hat (German: Berliner Goldhut) is a Late Bronze Age artefact made of thin gold leaf. It served as the external covering on a long conical brimmed headdress, probably of an organic material.

The Berlin Gold Hat is the best preserved specimen among the four known conical Golden hats known from Bronze Age Central Europe so far. Of the three others, two were found in southern Germany, and one in the west of France. All were found in the 19th and 20th centuries.

It is generally assumed that the hats served as the insignia of deities or priests in the context of a sun cult that appears to have been widespread in Central Europe at the time. [1].

The hats are also suggested to have served astronomical/calendrical functions (see below).

The Berlin Gold Hat was acquired in 1996 by the Berlin Museum für Vor- und Frühgeschichte as a single find without provenance. A comparative study of the ornaments and techniques in conjunction with dateable finds suggests that it was made in the Late Bronze Age, circa 1,000 to 800 BC.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Berliner_Goldhut.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Berlin_Gold_hat_calendar.jpg/800px-Berlin_Gold_hat_calendar.jpg


The Mold cape is a solid sheet-gold object dating from about 1900-1600 BC in the European Bronze Age. It was found at Mold in Flintshire, Wales, in 1833.

The cape is thought to have formed part of a ceremonial dress, perhaps with religious connections. It is currently housed at the British Museum in London.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/British_Museum_gold_thing_501594_fh000035.jpg/800px-British_Museum_gold_thing_501594_fh000035.jpg

[Óttar]

The biggest threat to scientific archaeology today is (believe it or not) radical feminism.
Marija Gimbutas is a prime example. She claimed bull heads were uteruses (uteri ?).

[Osweo]

Marija Gimbutas is a prime example.

She uses the male form of her surname. Nuff said.

[Allenson]

Marija Gimbutas is a prime example. She claimed bull heads were uteruses (uteri ?).

And that the wicked, horse riding, IE-speaking men swept off of the steppes and ruined matrilineal, Goddess worshiping, agricultural 'Old Europe'. :coffee:

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Anyhoo, I like the oldest musical instrument found in Germany story:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4429796,00.html

http://www.dw-world.de/image/0,,4429868_4,00.jpg

[Albion]

And that the wicked, horse riding, IE-speaking men swept off of the steppes and ruined matrilineal, Goddess worshiping, agricultural 'Old Europe'. :coffee:

Yeah, she was a well known feminist.

[Albion]

I'd rather have lived in ancient Germania, Britain or Scandinavia than Rome.

[The Lawspeaker]

Same here.

[Albion]

Yeah, a agrarian economy and way of life coupled with small population size and ancient Germanic culture sounds a lot better than living in a Roman slum or gutter any day.

[The Lawspeaker]

Only having to miss out on the bathhouses would have been a real bummer.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I would want to be a latista in ancient Rome and live like Batiatus in Spartacus Sand and Blood... :D

[Bloodeagle]

Only having to miss out on the bathhouses would have been a real bummer.


I'm sure the sauna, in one form or another, predates Roman influence in Northern Europe. You could have been cleaned and refreshed, without being subjected to all of the boy love and prostitution, that Northern historians accuse the Romans of. :D

[Wyn]

Yeah, a agrarian economy and way of life coupled with small population size and ancient Germanic culture sounds a lot better than living in a Roman slum or gutter any day.

False dichotomy.

[Albion]

False dichotomy.

Yeah yeah. I know life would be harder under certain circumstances.