Was the original Middle East closer to Caucasus people than to Modern Middle Easterners?

[daedal1]

This is with regards to the pre-Afro-Asiatic Middle East (Sumerians, etc.).

You already see Assyrians (who score 0% SSA) cluster with Armenians. Assyrians are likely closest to the proto-Semites and proto-Afro-Asiatics, or at least more so than modern 'arabs'.

Interestingly, it has been suggested that the Proto-Northeast Caucasian language originated from the Fertile Crescent, and that Chechens, etc. arrived from ancient Mesopotamia to the Caucasus. It has also been suggested that Anatolia was originally inhabited by NW Caucasian speakers (Hattians), which would explain the genetic relations between Anatolia and the Caucasus. And the Northeast Caucasian languages are said to be connected to Etruscan, possibly even extending to Basque.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hattian_language

You already see the genetic shift caused by the Arab Invasions here with some levantines being placed into the west asian group alongside iranians, turks and caucasus people, while others end up in the MENA proper cluster with north africans and gulf arabs:

http://img.ctrlv.in/img/5260445e2535e.png

In addition, Leb Muslims/Syrians also cluster away from Leb Christians in the direction of Gulf Arabs, demonstrating heavy arab admixture.

Given the SSA found in the Levant, and given the position of Sardinians, who are said to be closest to the neolithic migrants, it's likely that the Middle East did face many demographic diffusions and may have been considerably different from what it is now.

This can extend to the genetic similarities found between Sardinians and Mozabites (Berbers/North Africans being watered down Meds with SSA, etc.).

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0043759.g003&representation=PNG_M

[Prisoner Of Ice]

yes, obviously.

[Smeagol]

Yes.

[Proctor]

Yup.

[YeshAtid]

Yes

[daedal1]

So modern middle eastern people would basically be watered down 'Georgians'.

[Gaston]

No, people are retarded around here. They have no idea what they are talking about, especially daedal1. West Asian-like ancestry is recent in the Levant and Arabia because some Neolithic-descended people of the West Mediterranean lack West Asian ancestry.

[daedal1]

No, people are retarded around here. They have no idea what they are talking about, especially daedal1. West Asian-like ancestry is recent in the Levant and Arabia because some Neolithic-descended people of the West Mediterranean lack West Asian ancestry.

Original Chechen West Asians came from the Fertile Crescent.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/Migration_on_Nakh_Peoples.png

So the original Fertile Crescent was certainly different from the modern one as chechens/caucasians lack the exotic extra-ancestry of the modern inhabitants, if you were a european yourself, and not a moroccan pretending to be french, you would also agree.

[Anglojew]

Yes. This is why Jews (such as myself) show affinity with Caucasus populations.

The historical record shows that due to the Mongol invasions much of the Middle East was replaced by Arabians;

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1091-Euphrates-demographics-change-only-with-the-Mongols&

[Gaston]

Original Chechen West Asians came from the Fertile Crescent.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/Migration_on_Nakh_Peoples.png

So the original Fertile Crescent was certainly different from the modern one as chechens/caucasians lack the exotic extra-ancestry of the modern inhabitants, if you were a european yourself, and not a moroccan pretending to be french, you would also agree.


Everything this mentally-ill guy write is nonsense. Chechens, a non-European people of the Northern Caucasus had their genesis in the Caucasus, not in the Fertile Crescent. :picard1:

[Sikeliot]

The Levant and Mesopotamia would have experienced a wave of migration from the Caucasus not the other way around. This same wave of migration also hit SE Europe and brought them their West Asian elements. That's why I have them for instance.

[daedal1]

Everything this mentally-ill guy write is nonsense. Chechens, a non-European people of the Northern Caucasus had their genesis in the Caucasus, not in the Fertile Crescent. :picard1:

No, you moroccan pretending to be french, original chechens come from the ancient fertile crescent, this is the mainstream history on the origins of the nakh people and can be confirmed on linguistic grounds:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakh_peoples

10,000-8000 BCE
Migration of Nakh people to the slopes of the Caucasus from the Fertile Crescent. Invention of agriculture, irrigation, and the domestication of animals.[1]

"The Proto-Northeast Caucasian language had many terms for agriculture, and Johanna Nichols has suggested that its speakers may have been involved in the development of agriculture in the Fertile Crescent.[26] They had words for concepts such as yoke, as well as fruit trees such as apple and pear that suggest agriculture was already well developed when the proto-language broke up."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Caucasian_languages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chechnya

[daedal1]

The Levant and Mesopotamia would have experienced a wave of migration from the Caucasus not the other way around. This same wave of migration also hit SE Europe and brought them their West Asian elements. That's why I have them for instance.

That's not what the history of Nakh people and the linguistic evidences in the northeast caucasian languages suggest. It would also explain j2's origins in mesopotamia, with chechens and ingush having the highest j2.

[StonyArabia]

No Arabia was always distinct and never resembled the Caucasus people genetically or phenotypically. Northern Semites are basically Arabian+Caucasus people this can be shown by my own genetic results where I cluster with Assyrians, Georgian and Iranian Jews.

[Gaston]

No, you moroccan pretending to be french, original chechens come from the ancient fertile crescent, this is the mainstream history on the origins of the nakh people and can be confirmed on linguistic grounds:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakh_peoples

10,000-8000 BCE
Migration of Nakh people to the slopes of the Caucasus from the Fertile Crescent. Invention of agriculture, irrigation, and the domestication of animals.[1]

"The Proto-Northeast Caucasian language had many terms for agriculture, and Johanna Nichols has suggested that its speakers may have been involved in the development of agriculture in the Fertile Crescent.[26] They had words for concepts such as yoke, as well as fruit trees such as apple and pear that suggest agriculture was already well developed when the proto-language broke up."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Caucasian_languages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chechnya

This guy is more likely to be a psycho than I am to be Moroccan. Keep lying and sharing your noob opinion on a field you don't even grasp the basics.

[daedal1]

This guy is more likely to be a psycho than I am to be Moroccan. Keep lying and sharing your noob opinion on a field you don't even grasp the basics.

You can only make ad hominems, and yes if you weren't an idiot, you would have known that the mainstream history suggests the nakh people arrived from the ancient fertile crescent to the caucasus. Georgians will tell you this too.

Ladies and Gentlemen, you can see not even a single point is argued against it with actual data, in any of the statements this north african pretending to be french makes.

[daedal1]

No Arabia was always distinct and never resembled the Caucasus people genetically or phenotypically. Northern Semites are basically Arabian+Caucasus people this can be shown by my own genetic results where I cluster with Assyrians, Georgian and Iranian Jews.

Perhaps arab proper was sw asian, but not the bulk of this region:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Fertile_Crescent.png

[Gaston]

You can only make ad hominems, and yes if you weren't an idiot, you would have known that the mainstream history suggests the nakh people arrived from the ancient fertile crescent to the caucasus. Georgians will tell you this too.

Ladies and Gentlemen, you can see not even a single point is argued against it with actual data, in any of the statements this north african pretending to be french makes.

I don't discuss with mentally deranged people who start obviously biased threads all the time.

There is nothing objective with this guy, you can't have a serious discussion with him. And it's an obvious troll.

[daedal1]

I don't discuss with mentally deranged people who start obviously biased threads all the time.

There is nothing objective with this guy, you can't have a serious discussion with him. And it's an obvious troll.

Again, not a single actual fact presented to counter any of the actual data. You are so retarded that you weren't even aware of the mainstream history suggesting the nakh people to be of ancient fertile crescent origins. You are definitely not intelligent enough to be an ethnic french either, you are clearly a moroccan.

[daedal1]

No Arabia was always distinct and never resembled the Caucasus people genetically or phenotypically. Northern Semites are basically Arabian+Caucasus people this can be shown by my own genetic results where I cluster with Assyrians, Georgian and Iranian Jews.

And even then, sparsely populated historical Arabia would have had a much smaller population relative to the historical Fertile Crescent, so even the face of the average middle easterner would have been different in aggregate.

[Han Cholo]

Ancient Middle Easterners did not have the relatively high North European component North Caucasians have.

[daedal1]

Ancient Middle Easterners did not have the relatively high North European component North Caucasians have.

That may have come to the north caucasus later through mixing with scythians, etc. Georgians do not have much north european admix, for example.