Post Your Gök4-related ancestry

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Population
South_Asian 1.18%
West_Asian 48.38%
Siberian 0.40%
African 0.34%
Southern 39.30%
Atlantic_Baltic 10.39%
East_Asian -

Gök4-related ancestry = 87.3%

How To Do This


You take the value of 1.721, multiply that by the percentage of "Southern" you receive from the K7b calculator, then add 19.736, that's it.

[Black Wolf]

I get a Gok-4 related ancestry score of 45.551%....What can we really deduce from this though other than being genetically similar to a TRB Neolithic farmer to some degree?

[Mazik]

My results

South_Asian 0.98%
West_Asian 10.50%
Siberian 4.20%
African 0.18%
Southern 7.20%
Atlantic_Baltic 76.02%
East_Asian 0.92%

Gök4-related ancestry = 32.13%

My grandpa's

South_Asian 0.83%
West_Asian 9.74%
Siberian 7.46%
African -
Southern 6.48%
Atlantic_Baltic 74.76%
East_Asian 0.73%

Gök4-related ancestry = 30.88%

[ZephyrousMandaru]

I get a Gok-4 related ancestry score of 45.551%....What can we really deduce from this though other than being genetically similar to a TRB Neolithic farmer to some degree?

Well, I think we can infer that this Neolithic farmer is closer to modern Near Eastern populations. Hence the percentage.

Edit: But to be fair, the genetic landscape of Europe has changed since the time of this farmer. So that may also explain the similarity.

[Black Wolf]

Well, I think we can infer that this Neolithic farmer is closer to modern Near Eastern populations. Hence the percentage.

Right but GOK-4 was obviously also admixed with native Mesolithic Europeans to some degree. But since we use the Southern component score to calculate our Gok-4 related ancestry maybe the Southern component means true Neolithic ancestry. I really don't know?

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Right but GOK-4 was obviously also admixed with native Mesolithic Europeans to some degree. But since we use the Southern component score to calculate our Gok-4 related ancestry maybe the Southern component means true Neolithic ancestry. I really don't know?

Gok4 was mostly Southern when Dienekes computed his Admixture Proportions using K7b, which is presumably why the Southern component is associated with having Gok4-related ancestry.

[Black Wolf]

Gok4 was mostly Southern when Dienekes computed his Admixture Proportions using K7b, which is presumably why the Southern component is associated with having Gok4-related ancestry.

Kind of strange how the Southern component peaks in North Africa. You would think it would peak somewhere in the Near East or West Asia since that is where the Neolithic originated...Then again founder effects can happen as well.

[Fire Haired]

I wish they had La Brana, Ajv's, and Ire8 related ancestry since their the hunter gathers. I know that they were nearly 100% Atlantic Baltic the other groups they had came from farmer inter marriage.

[Black Wolf]

I wish they had La Brana, Ajv's, and Ire8 related ancestry since their the hunter gathers. I know that they were nearly 100% Atlantic Baltic the other groups they had came from farmer inter marriage.

I know I wish the same!

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Kind of strange how the Southern component peaks in North Africa. You would think it would peak somewhere in the Near East or West Asia since that is where the Neolithic originated...Then again founder effects can happen as well.

It's possible it could have arisen in North Africa, after all, the Mediterranean component in Sardinians is very similar to the ones North Africans have. They're even drifted in the direction of North Africans on MDS/PCA Plots.

[Black Wolf]

It's possible it could have arisen in North Africa, after all, the Mediterranean component in Sardinians is very similar to the ones North Africans have. They're even drifted in the direction of North Africans on MDS/PCA Plots.

Is it safe to say then that the Southern component represents a Neolithic entrant into Europe?

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Is it safe to say then that the Southern component represents a Neolithic entrant into Europe?

Yes, the only Mesolithic European components are North European and Atlantic_Baltic. That's what the earliest inhabitants of Europe were rich in.

[Black Wolf]

Yes, the only Mesolithic European components are North European and Atlantic_Baltic. That's what the earliest inhabitants of Europe were rich in.

There must have been some difference between Northern and Southern European hunter-gatherers though. One thing I have noticed is that all Europeans score quite high in the Atlantic_Baltic component in K7b but when you look at globe13 or whatever Iberians and even Sardinians who score pretty high in the Atlantic_Baltic component in K7b score much lower North_European which dominated the genomes of the Mesolithic and Neolithic hunter-gatherers such as La Brana at the PWC samples at higher K. I am trying to make sense of this. I wonder if the Atlantic_Baltic component is a rather pure Mesolithic component being created by the fusion of Southern European Mesolithic (Atlantic) and Northern European Mesolithic (Baltic) alleles?

[Fire Haired]

Yes, the only Mesolithic European components are North European and Atlantic_Baltic. That's what the earliest inhabitants of Europe were rich in.

I think we should not say this is true for a fact. Because there is no way the farmers got their huge amount of Meditreaen from the ancestors of modern Near eastern people so where did it come from? I think it is possibly there could have been some isolated group that had huge amounts of Med that were hunter gathers in maybe far southeast Europe or Anatolia which inter married with west Asian and southwest Asian farmers then spread in Europe. The North Euro and Atlantic Baltic are the only groups unique to Europe in so many tests it makes sense that it was 100% in pre farming Europeans(at least most) and originated in Palaeolithic Europe. And I think something important to know is that in globe13 west Asian is a extremely close brother to North Euro. West Asian is about 40-50% from Antolia-Pakistian and highest in the Caucus mountains at over 50% and keep reducing the further south you get and is very small in Arabia and almost completely non existent in north Africa. It shows us who the closest relatives to Europeans in a way and can maybe give an idea where at least some Palaeolithic European originated I would guess around Caucus, Anatolia, and Iraq. Also North Euro in globe13 and other groups or multiple in other aust dna tests that are unique to Europe I have noticed show correlation to light hair and eyes in Europe and overall paleness. It makes sense that the paleness in Europeans which makes them look different from other Caucasians originated in Euro hunter gathers. I am not saying the genes because all the different types of genes for pale skin, hair, and eye's in Europeans probably originated in the Near east but became dominate in Euros ancestors while in Europe.

[Vesuvian Sky]

There must have been some difference between Northern and Southern European hunter-gatherers though.

Definitely. The Med. component is so broadly defined plus the La Brana hunter Gatherer had it. Even someone as east Med shifted as me gradually begins to resemble Iberian populations towards the later half of my Oracle on the Eurogenes 15 Population source distance Oracle. What's pulling me East along the Med. isn't exactly the same as what's pulling me west.



# Population (source) Distance
1 Tuscan 6.71
2 Greek 10.23
3 North_Italian 10.88
4 Ashkenazi 11.32
5 Bulgarian 12.82
6 Romanian 13.43
7 Serbian 15.42
8 Sephardic_Jewish 16.85
9 Portuguese 16.99
10 Spanish_Extremadura 17.39
11 Spanish_Galicia 17.45
12 Spanish_Murcia 17.61
13 Spanish_Cataluna 18.23
14 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 18.58
15 Spanish_Andalucia 18.84
16 French 19.33
17 Spanish_Valencia 19.61
18 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 20.61
19 Austrian 21.56
20 Hungarian 21.77

[ZephyrousMandaru]

There must have been some difference between Northern and Southern European hunter-gatherers though. One thing I have noticed is that all Europeans score quite high in the Atlantic_Baltic component in K7b but when you look at globe13 or whatever Iberians and even Sardinians who score pretty high in the Atlantic_Baltic component in K7b score much lower North_European which dominated the genomes of the Mesolithic and Neolithic hunter-gatherers such as La Brana at the PWC samples at higher K. I am trying to make sense of this. I wonder if the Atlantic_Baltic component is a rather pure Mesolithic component being created by the fusion of Southern European Mesolithic (Atlantic) and Northern European Mesolithic (Baltic) alleles?

The Atlantic_Baltic may be subtracting from the North European frequency, that tends to happen when you have an abundance of two closely related components. I think North European may be more admixed than Atlantic_Baltic, especially considering its proximity to West Asian. Although allele frequencies tend to differ, depending on how many Ks you use, and what populations are being used as proxies for the components.

K7b has only seven clusters, where Globe13 has 13. So it's normal expect there to be some fluctuation in percentages for every single component.

[Black Wolf]

I think we should not say this is true for a fact. Because there is no way the farmers got their huge amount of Meditreaen from the ancestors of modern Near eastern people so where did it come from? I think it is possibly there could have been some isolated group that had huge amounts of Med that were hunter gathers in maybe far southeast Europe or Anatolia which inter married with west Asian and southwest Asian farmers then spread in Europe. The North Euro and Atlantic Baltic are the only groups unique to Europe in so many tests it makes sense that it was 100% in pre farming Europeans(at least most) and originated in Palaeolithic Europe. And I think something important to know is that in globe13 west Asian is a extremely close brother to North Euro. West Asian is about 40-50% from Antolia-Pakistian and highest in the Caucus mountains at over 50% and keep reducing the further south you get and is very small in Arabia and almost completely non existent in north Africa. It shows us who the closest relatives to Europeans in a way and can maybe give an idea where at least some Palaeolithic European originated I would guess around Caucus, Anatolia, and Iraq. Also North Euro in globe13 and other groups or multiple in other aust dna tests that are unique to Europe I have noticed show correlation to light hair and eyes in Europe and overall paleness. It makes sense that the paleness in Europeans which makes them look different from other Caucasians originated in Euro hunter gathers. I am not saying the genes because all the different types of genes for pale skin, hair, and eye's in Europeans probably originated in the Near east but became dominate in Euros ancestors while in Europe.

Dude read this that I wrote above.

here must have been some difference between Northern and Southern European hunter-gatherers though. One thing I have noticed is that all Europeans score quite high in the Atlantic_Baltic component in K7b but when you look at globe13 or whatever Iberians and even Sardinians who score pretty high in the Atlantic_Baltic component in K7b score much lower North_European which dominated the genomes of the Mesolithic and Neolithic hunter-gatherers such as La Brana at the PWC samples at higher K. I am trying to make sense of this. I wonder if the Atlantic_Baltic component is a rather pure Mesolithic component being created by the fusion of Southern European Mesolithic (Atlantic) and Northern European Mesolithic (Baltic) alleles?''

[ZephyrousMandaru]

I think we should not say this is true for a fact. Because there is no way the farmers got their huge amount of Meditreaen from the ancestors of modern Near eastern people so where did it come from? I think it is possibly there could have been some isolated group that had huge amounts of Med that were hunter gathers in maybe far southeast Europe or Anatolia which inter married with west Asian and southwest Asian farmers then spread in Europe. The North Euro and Atlantic Baltic are the only groups unique to Europe in so many tests it makes sense that it was 100% in pre farming Europeans(at least most) and originated in Palaeolithic Europe. And I think something important to know is that in globe13 west Asian is a extremely close brother to North Euro. West Asian is about 40-50% from Antolia-Pakistian and highest in the Caucus mountains at over 50% and keep reducing the further south you get and is very small in Arabia and almost completely non existent in north Africa. It shows us who the closest relatives to Europeans in a way and can maybe give an idea where at least some Palaeolithic European originated I would guess around Caucus, Anatolia, and Iraq. Also North Euro in globe13 and other groups or multiple in other aust dna tests that are unique to Europe I have noticed show correlation to light hair and eyes in Europe and overall paleness. It makes sense that the paleness in Europeans which makes them look different from other Caucasians originated in Euro hunter gathers. I am not saying the genes because all the different types of genes for pale skin, hair, and eye's in Europeans probably originated in the Near east but became dominate in Euros ancestors while in Europe.

The reason I don't find that scenario very likely, is because of Mediterranean relationship to West Asian, and especially Southwest Asian. Another problem is, that if Mediterranean were truly a Mesolithic European component. We'd notice exorbitant amounts of Mesolithic European admixture in Middle Easterners. Which has not been observed.

West Asian has fairly high diffusion all across West and Southwest Asia. I suspect the reason why North European is close to West Asian, is because North European may harbor West Asian alleles. It may even be derived from it.

See here: http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/08/inter-relationships-of-dodecad-k12b-and.html

[Black Wolf]

The reason I don't find that scenario very likely, is because of Mediterranean relationship to West Asian, and especially Southwest Asian. Another problem is, that if Mediterranean were truly a Mesolithic European component. We'd notice exorbitant amounts of Mesolithic European admixture in Middle Easterners. Which has not been observed.

West Asian has fairly high diffusion all across West and Southwest Asia. I suspect the reason why North European is close to West Asian, is because North European may harbor West Asian alleles. It may even be derived from it.

See here: http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/08/inter-relationships-of-dodecad-k12b-and.html

I am honestly starting to think that the component that may best represent the Mesolithic hunter-gatherers of Europe is the Atlantic_Baltic component from K7b. They all seem to be 100% in it. It gets to complicated at higher K.

[Elms]

Population
West_Asian 51.75%
Southern 37.25%
Atlantic_Baltic 9.08%
South_Asian 1.65%
East_Asian 0.16%
African 0.11%
Siberian -


Gök4-related ancestry = 83.84%

[ZephyrousMandaru]

I am honestly starting to think that the component that may best represent the Mesolithic hunter-gatherers of Europe is the Atlantic_Baltic component from K7b. They all seem to be 100% in it. It gets to complicated at higher K.

Here's the scenario I've envisioned. The Mesolithic Europeans were predominantly Atlantic_Baltic with a minority of North European. The first wave of farmers were mostly, if not wholly Mediterranean. The subsequent waves were West Asian, and Southwest Asian.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Population
West_Asian 51.75%
Southern 37.25%
Atlantic_Baltic 9.08%
South_Asian 1.65%
East_Asian 0.16%
African 0.11%
Siberian -


Gök4-related ancestry = 83.84%

Damn, your more distant from him than I am.

[Black Wolf]

Here's the scenario I've envisioned. The Mesolithic Europeans were predominantly Atlantic_Baltic with a minority of North European. The first wave of farmers were mostly, if not wholly Mediterranean. The subsequent waves were West Asian, and Southwest Asian.

I don't really understand that though. How can we even related components of different K levels like that to each other?...I mean how can some Europeans like Iberians and even Sardinians score quite high in Atlantic_Baltic and then so low in North_European at higher K. It seems that much of the Mediterranean alleles are also part of the Atlantic_Baltic component.

[Elms]

Damn, your more distant from him than I am.

Kind of a stupid question, but what is Gok4? Is it Germanic?

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Kind of a stupid question, but what is Gok4? Is it Germanic?

It's not a stupid question, Gok4 is a Neolithic farmer from Sweden.

http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2012/04/estimating-your-gok4-related-ancestry.html

[ZephyrousMandaru]

I don't really understand that though. How can we even related components of different K levels like that to each other?...I mean how can some Europeans like Iberians and even Sardinians score quite high in Atlantic_Baltic and then so low in North_European at higher K. It seems that much of the Mediterranean alleles are also part of the Atlantic_Baltic component.

You'd have to consult the administrators of the public projects for that question. I don't know myself.

[Black Wolf]

You'd have to consult the administrators of the public projects for that question. I don't know myself.

I am thinking too much about this again lol...My head is swimming now.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

More people need to post their Gok4-related ancestry.

[Fire Haired]

Definitely. The Med. component is so broadly defined plus the La Brana hunter Gatherer had it. Even someone as east Med shifted as me gradually begins to resemble Iberian populations towards the later half of my Oracle on the Eurogenes 15 Population source distance Oracle. What's pulling me East along the Med. isn't exactly the same as what's pulling me west.

La Brana's Med which is around the rate of modern central Europeans, British, and Southern Scandnavians can defintley be explained as farmer inter marriage. There were farmers in that exact area of Spain 7,000 years ago you can look at Ancient Eurasian DNa (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml) and see their Y DNA G2a and E1b1b V13 results and mtDNA typical of farmers not hunter gathers. The only way to connect all of areas of southern Europe I by boat and it would make more sense Mesolithic Iberians were more related to Mesolithic French and German than Greek. The extremely high amount of med and low amount of west Asian and southwest Asian means that Med in the farmers definitely did not come from the Near east at least mainly. So Europe is the most likely source then I think possibly southeast Europe near Greece where farming in Europe first spread. Or maybe farming really began somewhere else and even early farmers in the Near east were mainly Med and the hunter gathers west Asian and southwest Asian.

[Fire Haired]

Kind of a stupid question, but what is Gok4? Is it Germanic?

No, No, No, No, No not connected to Germanic languages at all!!!! Gok4 is apart of Funnel beaker culture the earliest farmers in Scandinavia(only very far southern Norway and Sweden) about 5,000ybp. He definitely repsents at least some of the ancestry of modern Swedish and Norwegian their Meditreaen in globe13 and other aust dna tests. But overall Norwiegan and Swedish are overwhelmingly mostly descended of pre farming Europeans like Ire8 hunter gather from Pitted ware culture in Gotland, Sweden (4,800-4,000ybp) and definitely a major amount of ancestry from Proto Germanic speakers with Y DNa R1b1a2a1a1 U106, I2a2a M223(from inter marriage with native central Europeans, and non I1a2 L22 I1 subclades(also inter marriage with native central Europeans. Those proto Germanic speakers also probably had mainly pre farming European ancestry. Y DNa I1a2 L22 most likely descends from pre Neloithic Scandinavians.

[Vesuvian Sky]

Or maybe farming really began somewhere else and even early farmers in the Near east were mainly Med and the hunter gathers west Asian and southwest Asian.

You and I see things very differently here.:icon_neutral:

Yes well at that time in Iberia, farmers had arrived yet Iberian archaeologists interpret the arrival of agriculture to the area as one of mostly acculturation. Other thing to consider is the concept of occupation =/correlates with admixture as Dienekes disusses on his blog. However, if that was the case, then I wouldnt' expect La Brana or even the N. Hunter gatherers to have other components to them. Instead, I think geography does play a role in shaping genetic admixture. This is more the reason why I feel the West Asian and North European component cluster close to each other more so compared to the Med and SW Asian component. Also, other papers and archaeologists have suggested hunter gatherers and farmers did not mix right away.

Ergo, I am hesitant to accept La Brana's Med component as resulting exclusively from a Maritime Neolithic process.

[Annihilus]

South_Asian 0.53%
West_Asian 36.07%
Siberian 2.36%
African 0.17%
Southern 26.81%
Atlantic_Baltic 33.05%
East_Asian 1.00%

Gök4-related ancestry = 65.88%

[d3cimat3d]

50.3%

[Graham]

41.18% -- Mine
44.74% -- Dad
40.96% -- Mum

[Equilibrium]

We already have a thread about the K7b and Gök4 here:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?95337-Post-your-Dodecad-K7b-results

[sgc2009]

My score: 33.69%

Maternal grandma's: 39.01%

[ZephyrousMandaru]

We already have a thread about the K7b and Gök4 here:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?95337-Post-your-Dodecad-K7b-results

Yeah I was aware of that thread, but that's targeted more towards posting your Dodecad K7b admixture proportions, as opposed to your Gok4-related ancestry.