Rashid Khalidi, American historian of Palestinian/Lebanese origins

[curupira]

Rashid Ismail Khalidi (Arabic: رشيد خالدي‎; born 1948) is an American historian of the Middle East, the Edward Said Professor of Modern Arab Studies at Columbia University,[1] and director of the Middle East Institute of Columbia's School of International and Public Affairs. He also is known for serving as editor of the scholarly journal Journal of Palestine Studies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_Khalidi

http://www.thecornerreport.com/media/blogs/links/arashidk.jpg
http://chicagoagainstobama.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/rashidkhalidi.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/NLN_Rashid_Khalidi.jpg
http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2013/8/26/2013826101733630734_20.jpg

[Sharkeatpeople]

East med/Arabic+CM

[aherne]

Very interesting specimen... Looks unique to Jews. Yes, much of the face traces to a Semitic origin, but there is also an Armenoid strain (probably acquired when Jews lived in Mesopotamia).

[Sikeliot]

Atlanto-Med/Armenoid.

[MarkyMark]

The arabs of lebanon and palestine are mainly byzantine arabs meaning they are a mixture of arabs and greco-romans. Obviously there some Indo-Europeans among the Greeks and Romans which probably accounts for his pigmentation. Other than that he looks normal among Levantine Arabs.

[curupira]

Other pics of him:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hUqhilguoPs/SQfAVf0JnJI/AAAAAAAAEdM/676RLxQNSDk/s320/2005_11_07.jpg
http://gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/1.654787!/image/2057676844.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_475/2057676844.jpg
http://imgsrv2.pxdrive.com/pics/norm/280800.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/5xiog5.jpg
http://www.antiauthoritarian.net/NLN/photo-gallery/2009_01_23_nlg/images/dsc_1409.jpg

[StonyArabia]

Apine-CM with slight Armenoid. He looks very typical for the Levantine Arabs.

[Smeagol]

Alpine/CM + Armenoid/Arabid.

[Smeagol]

The arabs of lebanon and palestine are mainly byzantine arabs meaning they are a mixture of arabs and greco-romans. Obviously there some Indo-Europeans among the Greeks and Romans which probably accounts for his pigmentation. Other than that he looks normal among Levantine Arabs.

The Greeks, and Romans had no genetic impact on the places they conquered.

[MarkyMark]

The Greeks, and Romans had no genetic impact on the places they conquered.

You are mistaken. Anyways I don't believe anything without reliable sources.

[Smeagol]

You are mistaken. Anyways I don't believe anything without reliable sources.

How am I mistaken? Do you have any evidence the Romans had a genetic impact on the Levant?

[MarkyMark]

How am I mistaken? Do you have any evidence the Romans had a genetic impact on the Levant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghassanids

Anyways it is common knowledge among Syrian people that before during the 4th century there were four main christian communities: the Greeks, Syriacs, Ghassanids, and a Greek-Ghassanid combination. They were at the time I believe all monophysites, but were very separate from each other, save the merging of ghassanids and byzantines. You might say that the Greeks were not populous among the middle east however the Greeks attempted to hellenize Syria by populating it with Greeks and forming many cities all known as Alexandria(more or less). My grandmother's family lived in one of those Alexandria's at one point, but it is now known as Iskanderun. Read the later chapters of Georges Roux's Ancient Iraq(at his time synonymous with Mesopotamia) if you want to know more about greeks in syria.

Actually I have the book right in front of me. It starts on page 412.

[StonyArabia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghassanids

Anyways it is common knowledge among Syrian people that before during the 4th century there were four main christian communities: the Greeks, Syriacs, Ghassanids, and a Greek-Ghassanid combination. They were at the time I believe all monophysites, but were very separate from each other, save the merging of ghassanids and byzantines. You might say that the Greeks were not populous among the middle east however the Greeks attempted to hellenize Syria by populating it with Greeks and forming many cities all known as Alexandria(more or less). My grandmother's family lived in one of those Alexandria's at one point, but it is now known as Iskanderun. Read the later chapters of Georges Roux's Ancient Iraq(at his time synonymous with Mesopotamia) if you want to know more about greeks in syria.

Actually I have the book right in front of me. It starts on page 412.

Here is a Lebanese Greek, there is many Greek communities in Syria indeed, some even speak Greek dialects some adopted Sunni Islam but the majority retained their Christian religion.

http://s14.postimg.org/ccysmn3ht/400px_Michel_Elefteriades3.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting 20mb (http://postimage.org/)

[MarkyMark]

Here is a Lebanese Greek, there is many Greek communities in Syria indeed, some even speak Greek dialects some adopted Sunni Islam but the majority retained their Christian religion.

http://s14.postimg.org/ccysmn3ht/400px_Michel_Elefteriades3.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting 20mb (http://postimage.org/)

That guy looks more Greek than the leader of Golden Dawn. Lol.

[curupira]

Couldn't he pass as an Ashkenazi Jew too?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/NLN_Rashid_Khalidi.jpg
http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2013/8/26/2013826101733630734_20.jpg

[YeshAtid]

East med-armenoid. One of the very few Palestinians with Israelite heritage.

[Tooting Carmen]

East med-armenoid.

Yes

[YeshAtid]

Yes
A very rare Palestinian look.

[Mehmet]

The fact that he's blue eyes doesn't change the fact he's Levantine 'wog'.
Armeno-Medish.

[Anglojew]

Very interesting specimen... Looks unique to Jews. Yes, much of the face traces to a Semitic origin, but there is also an Armenoid strain (probably acquired when Jews lived in Mesopotamia).

I totally agree that he's obviously of Jewish (or Israelite) origin like 80% of Palestinians.

[Anglojew]

East med-armenoid. One of the very few Palestinians with Israelite heritage.

80% of Palestinians are of Israelite heritage. The sooner we unite the better. Why fight when all we need to do is recognise our brotherhood and live in peace and prosperity and united instantly become twice as strong?

[Anglojew]

Couldn't he pass as an Ashkenazi Jew too?

Yes, almost stereotypically so. I bet he was mistaken daily for being Jewish.

[YeshAtid]

80% of Palestinians are of Israelite heritage. The sooner we unite the better. Why fight when all we need to do is recognise our brotherhood and live in peace and prosperity and united instantly become twice as strong?
That's a huge overestimation, many are simply Arabid with minor Bantu or North African mixture. Palestinians are largely non-indigenous. Lebs and Syrians on the other hand are predominantly native, but not necessarily Israelite derived. The Phoenicians and Hittites, to name a few, had a substantial impact upon their genetic composition. If anything Israel should be embracing Lebanon and Southern Syria instead of Arab Palestine.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/The_philosopher_Zaki_al-Arsuzi.jpg/250px-The_philosopher_Zaki_al-Arsuzi.jpghttp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/images/lahoud.jpghttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/10/30/sunday-review/30WORTH-1319828640155/30WORTH-1319828640155-popup.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Antun_Saadeh.jpghttp://eliedh.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/bachir-gemayel-president.jpghttp://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00314/15170288_Tueni_314669k.jpg

[Anglojew]

That's a huge overestimation, many are simply Arabid with minor Bantu or North African mixture. Palestinians are largely non-indigenous. Lebs and Syrians on the other hand are predominantly native, but not necessarily Israelite derived. The Phoenicians and Hittites, to name a few, had a substantial impact upon their genetic composition. If anything Israel should be embracing Lebanon and Southern Syria instead of Arab Palestine.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/The_philosopher_Zaki_al-Arsuzi.jpg/250px-The_philosopher_Zaki_al-Arsuzi.jpghttp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/images/lahoud.jpghttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/10/30/sunday-review/30WORTH-1319828640155/30WORTH-1319828640155-popup.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Antun_Saadeh.jpghttp://eliedh.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/bachir-gemayel-president.jpghttp://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00314/15170288_Tueni_314669k.jpg

I would like to include Alawites, Maronites and Druze in Greater Israel

[YeshAtid]

I would like to include Alawites, Maronites and Druze in Greater Israel
Lebanese Muslims look pretty native, whilst Palestinian Muslims tend to look arabid.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Salim_el-Hoss_Axis_for_Peace_2005-11-17.jpg

http://www.meepas.com/alebaneseleader.jpg

[Anglojew]

Lebanese Muslims look pretty native, whilst Palestinian Muslims tend to look arabid.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Salim_el-Hoss_Axis_for_Peace_2005-11-17.jpg

http://www.meepas.com/alebaneseleader.jpg

I don't agree. The foreigners in Gaza do but Galilean and other Palis look native. When I was in Israel the difference was amazing. The northern Arabs looked like Eurpids whilst the Gazan types were remarkably ugly (due to inbreeding no doubt).

[Anglojew]

Lebanese Muslims look pretty native, whilst Palestinian Muslims tend to look arabid.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Salim_el-Hoss_Axis_for_Peace_2005-11-17.jpg

http://www.meepas.com/alebaneseleader.jpg

I don't agree. The foreigners in Gaza do but Galilean and other Palis look native. When I was in Israel the difference was amazing. The northern Arabs looked like Eurpids attractive whilst the Gazan types were remarkably ugly (due to inbreeding no doubt) brown people of indeterminate race.

[Methusalem]

Nordoid/Arabid.

[YeshAtid]

I don't agree. The foreigners in Gaza do but Galilean and other Palis look native. When I was in Israel the difference was amazing. The northern Arabs looked like Eurpids whilst the Gazan types were remarkably ugly (due to inbreeding no doubt).
Palestinians from Galilee have mixed with Christian Levantines and other native populations, hence a lighter complexion.
Some Gazans do show some Levantine lineage; this guys looks like a darker version of Danny Danon, a Mizrahi.
http://static0.therichestimages.com/wp-content/uploads/Mohammed_Dahlan.jpg

[Anglojew]

Palestinians from Galilee have mixed with Christian Levantines and other native populations, hence a lighter complexion.
Some Gazans do show some Levantine lineage; this guys looks like a darker version of Danny Danon, a Mizrahi.
http://static0.therichestimages.com/wp-content/uploads/Mohammed_Dahlan.jpg

Yes there are native Gazans but also Egyptian Gazans.

[YeshAtid]

Yes there are native Gazans but also Egyptian Gazans.
I'm not saying all Palestinians aren't Levantine, but the vast majority of them are Arab-Bantu-minor Levantine mixes. That Levantine isn't necessarily Israelite either, it could also be Phoenician.

[Anglojew]

I'm not saying all Palestinians aren't Levantine, but the vast majority of them are Arab-Bantu-minor Levantine mixes. That Levantine isn't necessarily Israelite either, it could also be Phoenician.

Phoenician and Hebrew were very similar (I'm not convinced they were different languages). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_language

[YeshAtid]

Phoenician and Hebrew were very similar (I'm not convinced they were different languages). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_language
Phoenicians were a predominantly med population, whilst the Hebrews were a semitic-med mix.

[Smeagol]

Phoenicians were a predominantly med population, whilst the Hebrews were a semitic-med mix.

People like Oded Fehr are a good example of ancient Israelites.

[oh-nahhh]

Armenoid.

[Anglojew]

Phoenicians were a predominantly med population, whilst the Hebrews were a semitic-med mix.

Phoenician is a Semitic language so they must have had Semitic admixture. An proof?

[YeshAtid]

Phoenician is a Semitic language so they must have had Semitic admixture. An proof?
Semitic manifests as an Arabid phenotype. I never excluded the fact that Phoenicians had some semitic admixture, but it was pretty small. Their skull shapes are med as well.

[YeshAtid]

People like Oded Fehr are a good example of ancient Israelites.
Is this guy( Dany Chamoun) a good example of the Phoenicians?
http://www.wars.meskawi.nl/images/dany-chamoun.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Phoenicians and Israelites were both "Canaanite" peoples, who would have split into separate cultures at some point. I doubt there was any racial difference between them.

[Smeagol]

Is this guy( Dany Chamoun) a good example of the Phoenicians?
http://www.wars.meskawi.nl/images/dany-chamoun.jpg

He could be a Phoenician, yeah.

[YeshAtid]

Phoenicians and Israelites were both "Canaanite" peoples, who would have split into separate cultures at some point. I doubt there was any racial difference between them.
The Canaanites probably originated from Arabia, the birthplace of the Semites. So there must have been some racial differences anyway.

[YeshAtid]

He could be a Phoenician, yeah.
I don't know why people think Palestinians are remnants of the Israelites. They're far too semitic and negroid to be so.

[Smeagol]

Phoenicians and Israelites were both "Canaanite" peoples, who would have split into separate cultures at some point. I doubt there was any racial difference between them.

There was. Phoenicians were predominantly native East Mediterranids, Israelites were predominantly Semitic with Mediterranid influence.

[Smeagol]

I don't know why people think Palestinians are remnants of the Israelites. They're far too semitic and negroid to be so.

Far too Semitic? Not at all, but yeah many do have some negroid influence from the Arab slave trade.

[YeshAtid]

Far to Semitic? Not at all, but yeah many do have some negroid influence from the Arab slave trade.
They're predominantly Arabid with a substantial negroid influx. They're not native.

[Sikeliot]

There was. Phoenicians were predominantly native East Mediterranids, Israelites were predominantly Semitic with Mediterranid influence.

Both were Canaanites how is that possible? I think the original Phoenicians and the original Jews looked exactly the same, and that they were an Armenoid-Med mixture.

Teresa Mannino looks kind of "Phoenician" and she is from Palermo, where that influence existed. She looks like a Jew by modern standards:

http://www.ivid.it/fotogallery/imagesearch/images/mannino_teresa_003_jpg_gsyg.jpg

[KidMulat]

With some more muscle tone: silver fox :cool:

[KidMulat]

Far too Semitic? Not at all, but yeah many do have some negroid influence from the Arab slave trade.

Negroid input is not only through the slave trade

[YeshAtid]

Both were Canaanites how is that possible? I think the original Phoenicians and the original Jews looked exactly the same, and that they were an Armenoid-Med mixture.



Case in point; Anatolian Turks are Turkicised natives, but look nothing like Kazakhs, why can't that be same for Phoenicians? It's fathomable they took on a Canaanite language and assimilated. Teresa Mannino is an eastmed-armenoid, which is a native phenotype but wasn't an Israelite phenotype.

[Smeagol]

Both were Canaanites how is that possible?

Apparently the population of Lebanon (Phoenicia) was mainly just Semiticized natives, while the Israelites were very Semitic influenced. Lebanon today even is still more on the Med side, but has more Semitic influence.


I think the original Phoenicians and the original Jews looked exactly the same, and that they were an Armenoid-Med mixture.

But the skeletal evidences shows that they didn't, and anyway neither one of them had anything Armenid about them, which is a racial type native to Anatolia, and the Southern Caucasus. More Arabid-Med, with Arabid dominating in the Israelites, and Mediterranid dominating in the Phoenicians.

[Smeagol]

Negroid input is not only through the slave trade

Yes it is, which is why there's basically none in people like Syrians, Lebanese, Druze, and Samaritans.

[KidMulat]

Yes it is, which is why there's basically none in people like Syrians, Lebanese, Druze, and Samaritans.

They never traded with East Africa or the Horn region; no all genetically SSA markers are the result of slavery.

[YeshAtid]

They never traded with East Africa or the Horn region; no all genetically SSA markers are the result of slavery.
Where else could it originate?

[KidMulat]

Where else could it originate?

Refugees, migrants, sailors, military, traders, etc... Yemenites have it from being conquered for so long; Jews have it from old mixing with surrounding groups, list goes on.

[Smeagol]

Refugees, migrants, sailors, military, traders, etc... Yemenites have it from being conquered for so long;

Yemeni Jews are for the most part pure Semites (Arabid). They maybe have some ancient East African DNA, (5-8%) but that's irrelevant, when talking about race.

[KidMulat]

Yemeni Jews are for the most part pure Semites (Arabid). They maybe have some ancient East African DNA, (5-8%) but that's irrelevant, when talking about race.

I am not talking about race, I am talking about genetic components. You stated it came all from slavery, I am stating that it did not all come from enslaved people. Its not irrelevant because that is the basis of your statement.

[Smeagol]

I am not talking about race, I am talking about genetic components. You stated it came all from slavery, I am stating that it did not all come from enslaved people. Its not irrelevant because that is the basis of your statement.

I was talking about race. Palestinians, unlike the other Levantine peoples have some Sudano-Kafrid influences. Although, to be fair the majority of Palestinians don't.

[KidMulat]

I was talking about race. Palestinians, unlike the other Levantine peoples have some Sudano-Kafrid influences. Although, to be fair the majority of Palestinians don't.

And no one is saying otherwise, however the statement that it is all from slavery is incorrect.

[YeshAtid]

Refugees, migrants, sailors, military, traders, etc... Yemenites have it from being conquered for so long; Jews have it from old mixing with surrounding groups, list goes on.
That's a small proportion of their SSA input.

[KidMulat]

That's a small proportion of their SSA input.

We've yet to combine genetic, historical, and archaelogical data to clearly delineate how much or how little but until then I would caution blanketing it all under slavery esp when the torah itself states intermixing and a g-d given illness on the one who said it was wrong.