Albanians and Tuscans

[Herr Abubu]

Why is it that Albanians always cluster the closest to Tuscans on every admixture calculator there is? Some Albanians have even gotten 100% Tuscan from McDonald, f.e. My results are consistently either Tuscan or North Italian.

How would you explain this?

[Shah-Jehan]

Arbereshe migration?

[MelinusMargos]

Arbereshe migration?

In Northern Italy there aren't Arbereshe settlements. Maybe it's due to an affiliation between Illyrians and Italics, especially Venetis.
Plus you have to consider that there isn't any specific Albanian sample, so it may be not much accurate.

[Herr Abubu]

Arbereshe migration?

I don't think there ever was any Arbereshe community in Tuscany, all Arbereshe communities were in the south and Sicily.

Btw, I wonder why I never get South Italian and haven't seen other Albanians get it, even though there has been a sizeable Arbereshe community in South Italy and Sicily. I score closer to Ashkenazim, Austrians, Spaniards, Portuguese and even Sephardic Jews than I do South Italians, who don't even turn up on any calculation.

[safinator]

According to my samples Tuscans overall are the closest match with sometimes Greek Mainlanders or Bulgarians being first.

It must have to do with the overall mixing of Northern Southern components me thinks.

[Herr Abubu]

In Northern Italy there aren't Arbereshe settlements. Maybe it's due to an affiliation between Illyrians and Italics, especially Venetis.
Plus you have to consider that there isn't any specific Albanian sample, so it may be not much accurate.

Yes, that could be. But why isn't it true for the Puglia area, too, then, where the Messapians lived?

Does that affect the calculator? Would the inclusion of an Albanian sample affect how Albanians score with other groups?

[MfA_]

There are theories When Etruscans left Anatolia they reach Italy towards todays Albania and Dardanians are connected to Anatolian Dardanels(Northwest Anatolians).. I also read somewhere at E-M35 forum haplozone that Anatolian V13 is older than Balkan type.. I didn't dig much and don't know much honestly so take it with a grain of salt..

[safinator]

There are theories When Etruscans left Anatolia they reach Italy towards todays Albania and Dardanians are connected to Anatolian Dardanels(Northwest Anatolians).. I also read somewhere at E-M35 forum haplozone that Anatolian V13 is older than Balkan type.. I didn't dig much and don't know much honestly so take it with a grain of salt..

Well today Tuscans have very low E-V13 and the Garfagnana region has one of the highest R1b U-152 presence in the world so i wouldn't put too much faith on it.

[Herr Abubu]

There are theories When Etruscans left Anatolia they reach Italy towards todays Albania and Dardanians are connected to Anatolian Dardanels(Northwest Anatolians).. I also read somewhere at E-M35 forum haplozone that Anatolian V13 is older than Balkan type.. I didn't dig much and don't know much honestly so take it with a grain of salt..

I've thought of that, too. I remember a study some time ago that concluded that Italians are the genetically closest to Thracians today, with Albanians and Greeks behind Italians. I've read that Anatolian Dardanelles had ties with the Thracians (material culture). Maybe there were genetic ties, too? Trojans (Dardanians) may have migrated to Italy after the Trojan war (if you can interpret the Aenid figuratively). Plus Etruscans. Far-fetched, but exciting. Still doesn't explain why exactly Tuscans.

[Herr Abubu]

Well today Tuscans have very low E-V13 and the Garfagnana region has one of the highest R1b U-152 presence in the world so i wouldn't put too much faith on it.

I don't think relying on haplogroups is very reliable. Proportions can easily change over a large period of time without any movement of people.

[Vesuvian Sky]

Well if you want to think of it as general gene flow into Italy from the Balkans overtime then this:

http://files.myopera.com/ancientmacedonia/blog/DPhaarman_01.jpg

Cavalli-Sforza assigned this PCA map to such a process but Italy has received its Balkan gene flow from ancient Messapic people colonizing parts of the Adriatic coast as well as Greeks throughout the southern coastal area. Medieval Albanian migrations probably have played a role as well. The map doesn't have a specific temporal component per se but generally does show gene flow from the Balkans.

[Herr Abubu]

Well if you want to think of it as general gene flow into Italy from the Balkans overtime then this:

http://files.myopera.com/ancientmacedonia/blog/DPhaarman_01.jpg

Cavalli-Sforza assigned this PCA map to such a process but Italy has received its Balkan gene flow from ancient Messapic people colonizing parts of the Adriatic coast as well as Greeks throughout the southern coastal area. Medieval Albanian migrations probably have played a role as well. The map doesn't have a specific temporal component per se but generally does show gene flow from the Balkans.

Messapians lived far away from what's modern Tuscany, on the heel of Italy, South-East Italy. If general Balkan gene flow and the Greek colonization of Southern Italy is an explanation, why don't Albanians cluster South Italians in particular, which also has a sizeable historically Albanian population in more recent history? The Arbereshe only settled in the south, afaik.

[Vesuvian Sky]

Messapians lived far away from what's modern Tuscany, on the heel of Italy, South-East Italy. If general Balkan gene flow and the Greek colonization of Southern Italy is an explanation, why don't Albanians cluster South Italians in particular, which also has a sizeable historically Albanian population in more recent history? The Arbereshe only settled in the south, afaik.

Well I think this is just one layer to understanding the whole aspect. Defining the specific components or demographic processes that brought the two together is another. I actually come back as Tuscan alot of times on some of the calc oracles and what not. It seems the component ratio that leads to this is predominantly med + significant West Asian + north euro. I think Ashkenazi Jews come out like this too at times and have similar admixture ratios.

[Herr Abubu]

Well I think this is just one layer to understanding the whole aspect. Defining the specific components or demographic processes that led that brought the two together is another. I actually come back as Tuscan alot of times on some of the calc oracles and what not. It seems the component ratio that leads to this is predominantly med + significant West Asian + north euro. I think Ashkenazi Jews come out like this too at times and have similar admixture ratios.

Yes, that's true. The genetic definition isn't necessarily consistent with the genetics of the people of Tuscany. What these calculators calculate as "Tuscan" might not actually be Tuscan.

[Vesuvian Sky]

Yes, that's true. The genetic definition isn't necessarily consistent genetics of the people of Tuscany. What these calculators calculate as "Tuscan" might not actually be Tuscan.

exactly. for some reason though its chosen as a reference set often. but as it turns out, its not really ethnicity specific.

[Sikeliot]

Why is it that Albanians always cluster the closest to Tuscans on every admixture calculator there is? Some Albanians have even gotten 100% Tuscan from McDonald, f.e. My results are consistently either Tuscan or North Italian.

How would you explain this?


The same is true for many mainland Greeks. See, you Albanians are close to them!

[Herr Abubu]

exactly. for some reason though its chosen as a reference set often. but as it turns out, its not really ethnicity specific.

Oh man, I had invested so much effort into my new avatar and profile. Way to break a boy's dream, asshole.

[Herr Abubu]

The same is true for many mainland Greeks. See, you Albanians are close to them!

Many can mean many things. Is it consistent or is it true for some and false for others? Mainland Greeks have a lot of Albanian blood, too, so it's not that strange. And, apparently, Ashkenazim are close to them, too, not that this tells us a lot other than that Ashkenazim are close to us.

[Tomorr]

Tuscan - Tosk connection? :laugh:

[Vesuvian Sky]

Oh man, I had invested so much effort into my new avatar and profile. Way to break a boy's dream, asshole.

oh I wouldn't fret, its the internet afterall. you can pretend to be any asshole you want to be.;)

[Herr Abubu]

oh I wouldn't fret, its the internet afterall. you can pretend to be any asshole you want to be.;)

Yeah, but I certainly won't pretend to be you.

[Vesuvian Sky]

I won't pretend to be you.

no need too, you seem to have this asshole thing down good m8.

[Herr Abubu]

no need too, you seem to have this asshole thing down good m8.

Are you calling me an asshole, asshole?

[Vesuvian Sky]

Are you calling me an asshole, asshole?

yes. must be a "Tuscan" thing.:laugh:

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Arbereshe migration?

Got nothing to do with Arbereshi migration but rather historic connection we had with Tuscans, what I found most interesting is thanks to Albanian language scholars had opportunity to encrypted some unknown Etruscan words since now. :)

[Herr Abubu]

yes. must be a "Tuscan" thing.:laugh:

Fuck you, I'm a dick, you're an asshole.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcAaertdaQk

[Vesuvian Sky]

Fuck you, I'm a dick, you're an asshole.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcAaertdaQk

but according to your admixture ratio:

50% asshole
20% dick
20% shithead
10% puff puff

which according to Smoodecad Whoracle v6899999999 plots you somewhere within 'Tuscan'.

[Herr Abubu]

Anyway, this is off-topic. :P

[Herr Abubu]

but according to your admixture ratio:

50% asshole
20% dick
20% shithead
10% puff puff

which according to Smoodecad Whoracle v6899999999 plots you somewhere within 'Tuscan'.

My distance with Tuscans is 6.67. I'm sure there's a whole lot of dick between that gap.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Tuscans supposedly have highest neanderthal dna %

[Ianus]

I don't think there is a connection between Etruscan and Albanian. It's a weird result.

[Trun]

According to my samples Tuscans overall are the closest match with sometimes Greek Mainlanders or Bulgarians being first.

It must have to do with the overall mixing of Northern Southern components me thinks.

This.

In Bulgaria, recently there is a lot of comments on the media about these genetic studies (where we are close to Northern Italians/Tuscans and Northern Greeks). They started to represent the fact as we are possibly some kind of Italians :lol: While in reality it is just the same scores in West and Southwest Asian and small differences in Northern and Med components.

[Prince Carlo]

Why is it that Albanians always cluster the closest to Tuscans on every admixture calculator there is? Some Albanians have even gotten 100% Tuscan from McDonald, f.e. My results are consistently either Tuscan or North Italian.

How would you explain this?

No you don't. You are closer to Mainland Greeks and other Balkan people. Dodecad/Eurogenes/MDLP aren't peer reviewed science.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Tuscans supposedly have highest neanderthal dna %

No Basque people have highest Neanderthal DNA as far as I know. :)

[Cleitus]

Why is it that Albanians always cluster the closest to Tuscans on every admixture calculator there is? Some Albanians have even gotten 100% Tuscan from McDonald, f.e. My results are consistently either Tuscan or North Italian.

How would you explain this?
Estrucans !

[Cleitus]

No Basque people have highest Neanderthal DNA as far as I know. :)

This is not Neanderthal Admixture Neanderthals are Negroes.

[Herr Abubu]

No you don't. You are closer to Mainland Greeks and other Balkan people. Dodecad/Eurogenes/MDLP aren't peer reviewed science.

Obviously I meant on those amateur admixture calculators. That they're made by amateurs (in the actual meaning of the term) doesn't mean it should be completely discredited. I could have specified "on x/y/z admixture calculators, but everyone except for you seem to have understood what I meant, Special One.

[GiCa]

I have some Albanian friends. Generally on pigmentation they seem on pair with us, with some of them thought appearing maybe darker in a Greek sense of compared to the few unadmixed tuscans

What sometimes tell them apart is common face traits among them

They actually Don t cluster with us.. Because of the lack of Balkan Ian group sets in the genetic tests

[Percivalle]

They actually Don t cluster with us.. Because of the lack of Balkan Ian group sets in the genetic tests


Since this thread was opened 5 years ago it has become quite clear that it is simply a similar ratio of genetic components.