Maltese 23andme Results! Since no one on here has seen one before.

[Sikeliot]

It is very similar to a western Sicilian, i.e. Agrigento, Palermo, Trapani, because Maltese are Sicilians as I have tried to say for years, not Arabs.

She appears in the West Asian plot beside, but not with, the Druze just like people in Agrigento do, since that is where most Maltese ancestry comes from.


http://i41.tinypic.com/2e4hlpj.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2qn4lys.jpg

[7eleven]

On the PCA plot this Maltese person is right where my Ashkenazi Jewish mother is. Like literally almost the same exact spot.

[Also]

Why do sicilians and malteses plot together with levantine druzes?

[Sikeliot]

Why do sicilians and malteses plot together with levantine druzes?

Not all of the Sicilians I share with do, but many do. I only share with this one Maltese woman so I do not know if her situation is applicable for all Maltese. Either way, the Maltese come from the most "non-European" parts of Sicily genetically (Agrigento, Gela, Caltanissetta etc) so I would not be surprised if they are like a sample of exotic Sicilians put on another island, and didn't get much of the Greek admixture that characterizes the rest of Sicily.

[YeshAtid]

Why do sicilians and malteses plot together with levantine druzes?

They're half Levantine basically

[Sikeliot]

Malta is basically an extension of Agrigento and Caltanissetta. Their genes, surnames (Vella, Schembri, Camilleri), their culture.

They do have some input from Palermo too, though. But very little of their ancestry is from the east (Messina, Catania, Syracuse, or Enna) and only a minor amount is from Ragusa.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Map_of_region_of_Sicily,_Italy,_with_provinces-it.svg/782px-Map_of_region_of_Sicily,_Italy,_with_provinces-it.svg.png

[Black Wolf]

Makes sense really.

[Sikeliot]

Makes sense really.

Which thing?

The interesting trend I notice is this. The only other Maltese result I have seen, clusters in the same place (in the Near East plot), but I am not sharing with him, I just saw his results on another site.

Sicilians who have 100% of their ancestry from Agrigento, also generally will plot only in the Near East plot and not in the European one. But Sicilians from every other province will show up either in both, or at the very bottom of the Southern European plot only. The only exception may be Trapani since I am not sharing with anyone from there.

[Mark]

On the PCA plot this Maltese person is right where my Ashkenazi Jewish mother is. Like literally almost the same exact spot.
This makes little sense; I plot on the East European (SE) spot.

[Sikeliot]

This makes little sense; I plot on the East European (SE) spot.

This Maltese woman does not even make it onto the European plot.

[Black Wolf]

This makes little sense; I plot on the East European (SE) spot.

Maybe because you are not fully Ashkenazi? You are half Slav?

[Black Wolf]

Which thing?

The interesting trend I notice is this. The only other Maltese result I have seen, clusters in the same place (in the Near East plot), but I am not sharing with him, I just saw his results on another site.

Sicilians who have 100% of their ancestry from Agrigento, also generally will plot only in the Near East plot and not in the European one. But Sicilians from every other province will show up either in both, or at the very bottom of the Southern European plot only. The only exception may be Trapani since I am not sharing with anyone from there.

The Maltese chicks results.

[7eleven]

This makes little sense; I plot on the East European (SE) spot.

Well I dont know man I didnt make the plot. Maybe its because my mom is part North African which drags her onto the MidEast plot.

[Mark]

Maybe because you are not fully Ashkenazi? You are half Slav?

Polabian Slav ancestors, but no, I identify as an Ashkenazi. :)

[Sikeliot]

I think Maltese are dragged out of the Southern European plot because of their slightly higher North African, which is also the case for Sicilians from Agrigento. Even Cypriots don't have that slight North African influence, so they remain at the bottom of the Southern European plot.

That has to be the only logical reason, considering these Maltese and south Sicilian results do not differ much otherwise from other southern Italians except for altogether lacking anything North European.

[Black Wolf]

Polabian Slav ancestors, but no, I identify as an Ashkenazi. :)

Yes but genetically you are only half Ashkenazi. You won't cluster with them on plots because your Slav ancestry pulls you away.

[Sikeliot]

I added 5 more Maltese people so we'll see if there is a trend.

[Mark]

Yes but genetically you are only half Ashkenazi. You won't cluster with them on plots because your Slav ancestry pulls you away.

Yes, but it's really just my Paternal haplogroup/clade that is Slavic origin; I usually plot with S. Italians on average.

[Black Wolf]

Yes, but it's really just my Paternal haplogroup/clade that is Slavic origin; I usually plot with S. Italians on average.

Oh I thought you father's side was all Slavic. Like both his parents were. Are both of your parents Ashkenazi?

[Mark]

Oh I thought you father's side was all Slavic. Like both his parents were. Are both of your parents Ashkenazi?
Yes.

[Black Wolf]

Yes.

Ohhh okay well then you should cluster with other Ashkenazi on the plots.

[Sikeliot]

Let's stay on topic, please. Where Mark clusters is not at all relevant to this thread.

[Sikeliot]

Another note. On 23andme's "Relative Finder", the Maltese I share with both have as many Italian matches as Maltese. This means, as I assumed, Maltese people have a lot of recent (past 500 years if not more recent) ancestry from Sicily.

[Peyrol]

Can you post two ''extremes'' of the Peninsula? A forlan or a venetian and a south sicilian or maltese in the same post?

It would be interesting compares the two samples from a single country.

[Sikeliot]

Can you post two ''extremes'' of the Peninsula? A forlan or a venetian and a south sicilian or maltese in the same post?

It would be interesting compares the two samples from a single country.


The most "woggy" Sicilian I share with clusters in the Druze plot and not even in the European one. 23andme thinks he is from Lebanon. He is from Agrigento.

I'll try to find them and post them.

[Peyrol]

The most "woggy" Sicilian I share with clusters in the Druze plot and not even in the European one. 23andme thinks he is from Lebanon. He is from Agrigento.

I'll try to find them and post them.

If you can search also some furlan, from Udine or Trieste.
I'm curious.

[Maleficent]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2qn4lys.jpgMy dad, for comparison:
http://imageshack.us/a/img607/5285/fpdad1.png

They're half Levantine basicallyI'm a real half Levantine and I cluster with Italians on 23andme.

This makes little sense; I plot on the East European (SE) spot.This shows inconsistency and inaccuracy of 23andme's Global Similarity tool.

This Maltese woman does not even make it onto the European plot.That's just not right; she just at least be at the edge of the Southern European section.
Well I dont know man I didnt make the plot. Maybe its because my mom is part North African which drags her onto the MidEast plot.Didn't you say your mom is 1/8 Moroccan Jew, or something like that?

[Sikeliot]

That's just not right; she just at least be at the edge of the Southern European section.

When a Sicilian or Maltese has less North African, they appear just north of Cypriots but south of Greeks. When they have North African and more West Asian than average, they're pulled into the Druze plot. Maltese have more North African than most Sicilians (being from Agrigento which is the region most influenced by it) so that's why.

[Prince Carlo]

I added 5 more Maltese people so we'll see if there is a trend.

Post their results then!!!1

[Sikeliot]

Post their results then!!!1

They didn't add me back yet.

[Graham]

There is another Maltese on that website. He clusters closer to the average Sicilian, than a Sicilian does to the Italian Mainland. On Autosomals anyway.

[Sikeliot]

There is another Maltese on that website. He clusters closer to the average Sicilian, than a Sicilian does to the Italian Mainland. On Autosomals anyway.

What I notice is that Maltese on 23andme on Relative Finder have many matches with Italians, such that you know some of it has to be recent ancestry.

[Sikeliot]

Here is another Maltese. Autosomally similar to Sicilians, but clusters not in the Europe plot. Then again the two Sicilians I shared with today both cluster in the Near East plot, one exclusively so.. the other clusters in both.

http://i42.tinypic.com/1zb5ppx.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2ez0odc.jpg

[MINARDOWICZ]

This makes sense... a high MENA percentage but not unheard of at ALL! :p.

[Sikeliot]

This makes sense... a high MENA percentage but not unheard of at ALL! :p.

If you compare these Maltese results to the Sicilian ones in the other thread, you would not be able to tell who is who.

[MINARDOWICZ]

If you compare these Maltese results to the Sicilian ones in the other thread, you would not be able to tell who is who.

I bet so... :p Some Sicilians have even higher MENA results... These are just slightly high in MENA blood for Sicily. Just find a certain group of people and I guarantee to find a sample with more MENA blood. LOL!

[Sikeliot]

I bet so... :p Some Sicilians have even higher MENA results... These are just slightly high in MENA blood for Sicily. Just find a certain group of people and I guarantee to find a sample with more MENA blood. LOL!

Average Sicilian score I have seen is ~8%. Maltese range from that to like 10%. Highest Sicilian one I've seen was 20%.

[Virtuous]

Average Sicilian score I have seen is ~8%. Maltese range from that to like 10%. Highest Sicilian one I've seen was 20%.

OMG MALTESERS ARE MORE NORDICKS THAN SICILIANS LOL, TAKE THAT HATERS HAHAHAHAHAHAA>

[MINARDOWICZ]

Average Sicilian score I have seen is ~8%. Maltese range from that to like 10%. Highest Sicilian one I've seen was 20%.

20?!?!?! They have a family secret? :o... Some cover up story? ;). What they look like? ;o. Very MENA?

[Sikeliot]

20?!?!?! They have a family secret? :o... Some cover up story? ;). What they look like? ;o. Very MENA?

Not sure. They are from Palermo, though.

[Sikeliot]

OMG MALTESERS ARE MORE NORDICKS THAN SICILIANS LOL, TAKE THAT HATERS HAHAHAHAHAHAA>

There is no meaningful genetic difference between the two. From what it looks like, they have around the same amount of North African too.

[Also]

The most "woggy" Sicilian I share with clusters in the Druze plot and not even in the European one. 23andme thinks he is from Lebanon. He is from Agrigento.

I'll try to find them and post them.

Are Sicilians and Malteses plotting closer to Lebaneses than to North Italians?

[Sikeliot]

Are Sicilians and Malteses plotting closer to Lebaneses than to North Italians?

Yes.
There is a "Middle East" plot on 23andme.. most Sicilians and Cypriots I share with fall into both that plot and the very far south of the Southern European one. One or two fall only into the Middle East plot. All Maltese I share with only fall into the Middle East plot, while other Greeks only fall into the European plot.

[Also]

Yes.
There is a "Middle East" plot on 23andme.. most Sicilians and Cypriots I share with fall into both that plot and the very far south of the Southern European one. One or two fall only into the Middle East plot. All Maltese I share with only fall into the Middle East plot, while other Greeks only fall into the European plot.

Thanks. Could you post a graphic or anything where I can visualize this?

[Sikeliot]

Sicilians plot here on the Europe plot between Cypriots and Greeks:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2cn9g8h.jpg


and here on the Near East plot with Cypriots and Maltese:

http://i42.tinypic.com/1zb5ppx.jpg

[Also]

What are all these black spots?

[Sikeliot]

What are all these black spots?

Other individuals and their placements on the map.

[Prince Carlo]

OMG MALTESERS ARE MORE NORDICKS THAN SICILIANS LOL, TAKE THAT HATERS HAHAHAHAHAHAA>

LOL. Maltese aren't even European according to these results. So what's your point?

[Virtuous]

LOL. Maltese aren't even European according to these results. So what's your point?

apparti il fatt che te stavo prendendo ingiro, it's still 2/450,000, and besides, what might have compelled these individuals to test themselves? :coffee:

[Sikeliot]

LOL. Maltese aren't even European according to these results. So what's your point?

Well if the results are accurate it shows that out of Calabrese, Maltese, Sicilians, Greeks, and Cypriots.. Cypriots and Sicilians fall into both plots, Maltese only into Middle Eastern, and Greeks and mainland south Italians only in the Europe plot.

[Virtuous]

Well if the results are accurate it shows that out of Calabrese, Maltese, Sicilians, Greeks, and Cypriots.. Cypriots and Sicilians fall into both plots, Maltese only into Middle Eastern, and Greeks and mainland south Italians only in the Europe plot.

2/450,000.

[Sikeliot]

2/450,000.

3. The other Maltese poster who used to be on ABF had the same thing happen to him.

Either way there are some Sicilians who only fall into the Middle East plot too.

[Virtuous]

3. The other Maltese poster who used to be on ABF had the same thing happen to him.

Either way there are some Sicilians who only fall into the Middle East plot too.

You know the names/surnames of these individuals? I'd like to see if there is a correlation with that.

[Sikeliot]

You know the names/surnames of these individuals? I'd like to see if there is a correlation with that.

Cortese, Mercieca, and Muscat.

[Virtuous]

Cortese, Mercieca, and Muscat.

First one is Sicilian, the last two are of Semitic-Sicilian descent.

[Sikeliot]

First one is Sicilian, the last two are of Semitic-Sicilian descent.

Well like I said some Sicilians also don't plot in the Europe plot either.

[Virtuous]

Well like I said some Sicilians also don't plot in the Europe plot either.

La prova della verita' will be Borg-Falzon.

[Sikeliot]

La prova della verita' will be Borg-Falzon.

What it looks like is that all Maltese are genetically similar, and most Sicilians are too.

[Gaston]

Most Maltese and Sicilians cluster together with just slight variations in Sicily in the amount of North African, Greek etc ancestry. However, there are exceptions with some having high North European ancestry (Alfieb) and others scoring high MENA. These exceptions are possible in Malta too although much less likely knowing its small size (and the high[er] density of population), if there is high endogamy in isolated villages.

Both populations are on the extreme end of the Italian continuum that runs from the Alps (natural strong barrier) to the mediterranean islands, North Italians being closer to Iberians and some French.

Globally, to fall in the Near East cluster at 23andme, one has to be African enough.

[Virtuous]

What it looks like is that all Maltese are genetically similar, and most Sicilians are too.

Well, I've always knew that Maltese people are on the border, both geographically and genetically, when it comes down to it, culture and identity seals the pack. Malta had more involvement and strategic importance in History than certain other borderline Europeans from the northern side, that is what counts to me.

[Prince Carlo]

Albied is only partly Sicilian. He has also Anglo and German ancestries AFAIK.

[Peyrol]

Alfieb is also 1/4 ligurian.

[Sikeliot]

alfieb is 1/4 Ligurian and he said he also knows of distant Basque ancestry, so he is far from fully Sicilian. Also, he knows of documented Norman ancestry.

[SilverKnight]

my black brothaas

[Peyrol]

alfieb is 1/4 Ligurian and he said he also knows of distant Basque ancestry, so he is far from fully Sicilian. Also, he knows of documented Norman ancestry.

He has even some arbereshe ancestors if i remember well.

[Sikeliot]

He has even some arbereshe ancestors if i remember well.

That makes sense. He does say he scores some Balkan. Either way he is not representative genetically of Sicily.

Anyway, what someone suggested in another thread is that Sicilians (and thus Maltese) are genetically close to Cypriots and islander Greeks because the same Neolithic wave populated these areas, plus they were settled from Greece before the Indo-European elements became strongly present in Greece, plus additional Phoenician elements.

[Peyrol]

Alfieb is indeed a good example of all the populations who were in the island (even his ligurian side, since some galloromance populations settled some villages as you know).

[Sikeliot]

Alfieb is indeed a good example of all the populations who were in the island (even his ligurian side, since some galloromance populations settled some villages as you know).

Maybe so, but he is genetically unlike any other Sicilian that I have seen and I share with 50+ of them. He is an outlier, and I would hesitate to say he is genetically Sicilian since he is so far from the genetic averages.

And no he is not. He has no Greek ancestry, as far as I know.

[Prince Carlo]

Alfied has also Germanic mtdna. I bet 50 dollars that he has anglo ancestry.

[Sikeliot]

Alfied has also Germanic mtdna. I bet 50 dollars that he has anglo ancestry.

I don't think he'd lie about his ancestry.

[Virtuous]

Well if the results are accurate it shows that out of Calabrese, Maltese, Sicilians, Greeks, and Cypriots.. Cypriots and Sicilians fall into both plots, Maltese only into Middle Eastern, and Greeks and mainland south Italians only in the Europe plot.

So let me understand this, Cypriots fall into both European and Middle Eastern plots, but Maltese only into Middle Eastern plots. It is a tad illogical if you ask me. So yeah, I wouldn't account these 2-3 individuals as a whole population. Listen, all this nordicist affair, I only joke about it (with all respect to Scandinavia and co.), I am realistic and I know that the Maltese population is genetically same as Sicilians, with slightly more N.African and British depending on the individual. How it's said in Italian "E' tutto in regola". Being the southernmost and on the border, being ethnically questionable if Maltese are pure Europeans doesn't mean that I will change my values, political allineation or anything.

[Sikeliot]

So let me understand this, Cypriots fall into both European and Middle Eastern plots, but Maltese only into Middle Eastern plots. It is a tad illogical if you ask me. So yeah, I wouldn't account these 2-3 individuals as a whole population. Listen, all this nordicist affair, I only joke about it (with all respect to Scandinavia and co.), I am realistic and I know that the Maltese population is genetically same as Sicilians, with slightly more N.African and British depending on the individual. How it's said in Italian "E' tutto in regola". Being the southernmost and on the border, being ethnically questionable if Maltese are pure Europeans doesn't mean that I will change my values, political allineation or anything.

Correct.
Actually, I have seen that Sicilians have more North African than Maltese so far.

What is strange to me is that Sicilians and Maltese are no different when you look at Ancestry Painting, but the Sicilians land in both Europe and the Near East plot, and Maltese only in the Near East plot. THAT is what does not make sense.

[Sikeliot]

Another one.
This one has 2%+ South Asian, and 5% North African.

And this makes the fourth Maltese who only clusters in the Near East plot. They are basically Sicilians with more North African.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2gtt4dg.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/24lsz6h.jpg

[MINARDOWICZ]

Another one.
This one has 2%+ South Asian, and 5% North African.

And this makes the fourth Maltese who only clusters in the Near East plot. They are basically Sicilians with more North African.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2gtt4dg.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/24lsz6h.jpg

WEIRD result.

[Sikeliot]

New Maltese result:


http://i61.tinypic.com/awf6on.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/29awfhx.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Here is another. Compared to Sicilians, they seem to be less West Asian, and more North African. They also have a bit more Balkan and Iberian, for whatever reason. Thoughts? Are they the remnants of Sicilians past, or are they a different population?

He plots in the Near East plot just like the others.

http://i59.tinypic.com/x2vsbc.jpg

[Bobby Martnen]

Another note. On 23andme's "Relative Finder", the Maltese I share with both have as many Italian matches as Maltese. This means, as I assumed, Maltese people have a lot of recent (past 500 years if not more recent) ancestry from Sicily.

Sikeliot this is actually something that can be researched genealogically. Sicilian genealogical records are very comprehensive, and go back into the 1500s.