Vasconcelos ancestry - early Middle Ages, Dark Ages and late Roman Empire

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It's certainly not an accurate topic, a lot of this geneaology is based on old records, probably not all of it correct, and the further back you go, the more inaccurate it gets..but it's still what is commonly accepted, so I'll play along. I found it slightly disturbing the amount of times people eventually ended up marrying their cousins (not necessarly direct ones, though)..or maybe I shouldn't, it was rather common practice at the time, it probably also means I'm descendent of people with serious issues and mental retardardation, which could explain a thing or two.

I'm starting this form the forefather of the Vasconcellos (ancient spelling) noble family, Dom Martim Moniz, who according to legend died at the siege of Lisbon, by getting himself stuck in a small door at the walls of Lisbon, and surviving long enough for Crusaders to storm in...his death in this fashion is most likely than not a myth, but it's certain he lived.

Martim Moniz was a man of high Portuguese nobility. I remember reading somewhere he fought in Battle of Ourique, in lower Alentejo, the battle that eventually made Afonso Henriques (of burgundian descent) want to split Portugal from Galicia and eventually become the first king after fighting his mother in battle. He's a Portuguese national hero, but when looking at things in retrospect, maybe it would have been best just to stay with the rest of the of Leon...whatever, it doesn't matter now.

As a member of high Iberian nobility, Martim Moniz had Germanic ancestry, aswell as Basque..and some other random from people who were most likely than not random indegenous people from northern Iberia. There are some incredibly powerful people in our bloodline, if they weren't from roughly 1500 years ago I'd actually start feeling somwehat important.

Amongst some of our ancestors are the following:

[LIST][*][B]Ferdinand I the Great[/B], king of León and Castille - considered the first king of Castille and by extension the current kingom of Spain. He was descendent of the Jimenez dinasty of Navarre.[*][B]Garcia III the Great[/B], king of Navarre - united various christian kingdoms in early 1000s, main resposible for "creating" the Saint James Way.[*][B]Alfonso V the Noble[/B], king of León - died in the siege of Viseu in 1028.[*][B]Mendo Gonçalves[/B], count of Portucale - died in Tui defending it from a Viking raid.[*][B]Hermenegildo Guterres[/B], count of Coimbra - won a battle near Porto, it is said the blood tainted the river, henceforth named Rio Tinto..ironically it's where my maternal grandmother (also of Vasconcelos descent) lives.[*][B]Don Pelayo[/B], started the Reconquista by inflicting the first military defeat on Islamic invaders at Covadonga. Founded the Kingdom of Asturias.[*][B]Alfonso I the Catholic[/B], king of Asturias. Conquered Gallaecia and León, up to the Douro. Paved way for the Repobloación 100 later.[*][B]Ordoño I[/B], king of Asturias.[*][B]Ramiro I[/B], king of Asturias. Said to have won a battle in which Santiago Matamouros intervened. Father of Ordoño.[/LIST]

[LIST][*][B]Egica I[/B], [I]rex Gothorum[/I], most anti-jewish Visigothic king to ever rule.[*][B]Amalaric I Balthes[/B], [I]rex Gothorum[/I]. Lost most of Septimania to invading Franks, despite being married to one. He also used to beat his catholic Frankish wife.[*][B]Alaric II Balthes[/B], [I]rex Gothorum[/I]. Ruler of most of Iberia (save for Gallaecia and Basqueland), Septimania and Aquitania, which got lost after he died in a losing battle. Father of Amalaric.[*][B]Euric I Balthes[/B], [I]rex Gothorum[/I]. First ruler of the unified and independent Visigothic Kingdom after winning a civil war. Father of Alaric II[*][B]Theodoric I[/B], the Visigoth. Defeated Attila the Hun in Catalaunian Fields (also know as Châlons), where he died.[*][B]Theodoric the Great[/B], king of the Osthrogoths, ruler of Italy.[/LIST]

[LIST][*][B]Clovis I[/B], first king of the Franks, conquered Gaul. Forefather to the French nation.[*][B]Saint Clothild[/B], Burgundian, wife of Clovis I. Converted his husband into Catholicism, and by extension the Franks.[*][B]Clothaire I the Old[/B], king of the Franks.[/LIST]

[LIST][*][B]Theodosius I the Great[/B], last Roman emperor to rule over the Western and Eastern halves of the Empire.[*][B]Valentinian I the Great[/B], emperor of the West Roman Empire, last one to be titled as the Great.[/LIST]

There are many others, but I suppose these are the most important. It's interesting to realize that high nobility in the early middle ages in Iberia was indeed of Visigothic stock, which in turn had became in contact with Basques and Franks in Occitane and included them in the bloodline. The Roman Emperors were a major suprise.

Disappointing news is...considering I'm from northern Portugal I was hoping to see Suevian or Galician lords and kings, but no, absolutely nothing...just Astures, Cantabrians, Basques and Catalonians.

This is all very interesting, but it doesn't [U]really[/U] matter anything..not for me, and certainly not for anyone else, but it's always fun to know who our ancestors were in those turbulent times. I may have pretty much nothing in common with any of those men, or I can be the spitting face of one.
In the end, it's just a nice bedtime story to tell my kids when I have them..when they hear about the Visigoths, Ostrogoths and Franks they'll know "those, too, were my ancestors". They'll know these weren't just invaders, they are a part of us all Iberians, and they led our people in fighting for their freedom and against the invading islamic enemy.

The REAL big question now is this:
Next time I play Age of Empires II, which civilization should I chose?
Goths, Franks, or Spanish?
That's what's really counting now!

I end this with an historical tomb inscription, found in Idanha-a-velha in the 9th century, when Christian forces got to Beira Baixa, in Central Portugal.

[I][SIZE="3"]Hic requiescit Rodericus, rex Gothorum[/SIZE][/I]

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  1. Albion's Avatar
    Good post, but what was that part about staying with Leon about?
  2. Vasconcelos's Avatar
    It was just a random thought..historically and ethnically it didn't make much sense to separate Portugal from Galicia (and León), it was just a strong move made by a greedy and ambicious man - the first king of Portugal - who was, no doubt, very successful in his military campaigns against both Christians and Muslim neighbours.
  3. Albion's Avatar
    Would you be in favour of Galicia and the remaining Leonese speaking areas joining Portugal in a kind of "Greater Portugal"?
  4. Vasconcelos's Avatar
    Don't know if it makes sense now, but if that was their choice I wouldn't oppose it..but I don't oppose an Iberian Union either.
  5. Catrau's Avatar
    Very good post, very interesting "conducting line" to the past. In what concerns with what it might have been if we had never been separated from our northern brothers, as you stated, I also guess it doesn't matter much now.

    This is IT:

    I would never call it "Greater Portugal" as Albion did because it might be offensive for Galicians, Leonese and Asturians but I have no doubt that this ones in particular have a common backgroud with us.

    There is this "new" theory on the reasons why we got splitted from Gallaecia, check it out here:


    I know UTube isn't a good source but anyway, it's just a view point that may even be right.
    Updated 06-18-2012 at 03:36 PM by Catrau
  6. Vasconcelos's Avatar
    Interesting video, I didn't know that. As for the name, the most logical one would be "Galiza" or "Galecia", it was us who splited from them after all.
  7. Albion's Avatar
    What about Extremadura? I thought there were Portuguese speakers in the west of that region?
  8. Vasconcelos's Avatar
    Yes, that is correct, just as there is an Astur-Liones dialect in Northeastern Portugal and some dialects in Alentejo near Extremadura, notably Barranquenho.

  9. Catrau's Avatar
    Talking about Extremadura, we can always imagine parallel routes to the future. For example, if we go back to the early start of Portugal as an independent kingdom, we should understand that for our first king, his son and grandson, the Algarve wasn’t really the aim of the struggle for the south. Our fist king, who was a ruthless warrior, conquered himself most of Alentejo (say most of Portugal) and made a few drives to the Algarve which was a Moorish stronghold with a vibrant economy but his main interest was nowadays Extremadura and western Andalusia in special the city of Seville. It’s been Portuguese territory for some time Caceres, Trujillo, Montanchez and Santa Cruz.

    Disaster stroke during the campaign for the conquest of Badajoz, one of his "field generals" Geraldo Geraldes "The Fearless", needed reinforcements. When the king went to reinforce the siege of the city, it was then that the Portuguese were surprised by the unexpected arrival of a Leonese army, commanded by Fernando II of León, his son-in-law who had allied with the Muslims. It was necessary to retreat and the king seriously injured his knee and broke his leg in one of the gates of the city, having been taken prisoner. To be released ransom had to be paid and all lands previously conquered had to be surrendered. The curious thing is that after this incident the king, who at the time was 60 years old, became lame and stopped to be directly involved in fighting the Moors. Had this been his greatest military error. Thus, the buffer zone which intended defend the march on Seville was definitely lost. About 20 years later the Kingdom of León joined Castile and gained great impetus to the conquest of the southern strongholds, including Seville.
    But our aims for Seville didn't stop with the Castillan/Leonese drive south, Until the last moment we went there in raid by land and up the Guadalquivir.

    The king wasn’t worried with the Algarve because he knew that once Seville taken, the Algarve would fall easily after a few time and without a major campaign.
    This could have led to a different reality.

    Nice reading in this issue: