Ukrainian national average

How about making Ukrainian national average? In my opinion, for example in Global25 Western Ukrainians are over-represented.

Currently existing GEDmatch averages for Ukraine, also skew in favour of Western Ukrainians.

This is a collection of 28 Belarusians from Minsk & 28 Ukrainians from Kiev, academic samples, but they are not in Global25 yet:

Eurogenes K15:

Code:

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Belarusian_Minsk_1,19.89,16.97,33.82,20.59,4.6,0.25,0,1.02,0.94,1.01,0,0,0.1,0.8,0
Belarusian_Minsk_2,21.05,21.19,35.44,16.66,0.9,2.48,0,0,1.03,0,0,0.71,0.41,0,0.12
Belarusian_Minsk_3,15.55,19.55,30.68,24.26,2.44,0.83,4.66,0.96,0.51,0,0.51,0,0.03,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_4,17.11,15.11,36.94,19.34,3.23,3.07,3.05,0.65,0,0.59,0.29,0,0.64,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_5,18.59,15.15,30.84,25.33,5.44,1.19,0,1.15,1.07,0,0.17,0.5,0.22,0.35,0
Belarusian_Minsk_6,18.77,15.72,36.06,20.85,3.26,1.19,1.29,0.42,2.06,0,0,0,0,0.23,0.15
Belarusian_Minsk_7,19.12,16.33,34.09,20.44,3.6,0.48,3.98,0,0.54,0,0,1.07,0.35,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_8,23.8,12.67,31.7,20.02,3.18,3.63,0,1.78,2.77,0,0,0.1,0.35,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_9,16.81,17.08,34.9,17.53,4.49,4.47,1.91,0,0.79,0,1.92,0,0,0,0.12
Belarusian_Minsk_11,18.33,17.68,28.81,23.03,4.52,4.59,0.72,0,1.24,0,0,1.08,0,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_12,17.49,20.08,31.41,23.97,1.64,4.71,0,0,0.03,0.1,0,0,0.25,0.33,0
Belarusian_Minsk_13,20.84,13.53,33.03,18.75,7.33,2.44,2.66,0,0.2,0,0.04,0.29,0,0.58,0.31
Belarusian_Minsk_14,17.17,18.48,29.73,23.18,6.52,2.59,1.8,0,0.53,0,0,0,0,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_15,16.15,16.71,34.7,23.78,5.6,0.39,0,0,2.57,0,0,0.09,0,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_16,21.73,16.14,29.35,20.79,3.93,6.25,0.27,0,0,0,0,0.68,0.68,0,0.17
Belarusian_Minsk_17,18.24,15.27,35.73,21.57,3.34,4.17,0,0,0.02,0,0,0.21,1.43,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_18,17.32,16.06,35.75,22.14,4.16,1.64,0.63,0,1.78,0,0,0.33,0,0.19,0
Belarusian_Minsk_19,13.73,15.09,31.99,25,6.26,5.19,1.22,0,0,0,0,0.12,0.36,1.03,0
Belarusian_Minsk_20,19.65,13.51,32.25,22.27,4.23,6.43,0,0.04,1.34,0,0,0.28,0,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_21,23.78,11.11,32.2,21.17,6.96,2.72,0,0,0,0,0,0.99,1.07,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_22,14.16,20.89,34.51,22.76,3.16,1.46,0,0,0.73,0.17,0,1.7,0,0,0.46
Belarusian_Minsk_23,19.14,16.65,32.98,19.01,2.44,4.16,2.57,0,0,0,1.52,0,0.68,0,0.85
Belarusian_Minsk_25,21.53,18.87,30.56,22.42,2.71,2.62,0,0,0,0,0,0.83,0.47,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_26,23.56,10.55,31.89,20.32,8.18,0.72,3.55,0,0,0.06,0.09,0.45,0,0,0.63
Belarusian_Minsk_27,19.09,11.91,29.15,24.64,8.4,3.2,0,1.71,0.65,0,0.96,0.29,0,0,0
Belarusian_Minsk_28,18.92,15.38,29.64,20.23,8.79,2.36,1.91,0,0,0,1.92,0,0.13,0,0.72
Belarusian_Minsk_Avg(n=26),18.90,16.06,32.62,21.54,4.59,2.82,1.16,0.30,0.72,0.07,0.29,0.37,0.28,0.14,0.14
Belarusian_Minsk_10_outlier,11.56,17.8,24.97,18.86,8.95,6.28,8.88,0.4,0.86,1.04,0.1,0,0,0,0.3
Belarusian_Minsk_24_outlier,11.45,19.41,20.89,17.27,7.03,12.22,5.73,1.49,1.79,0.27,1.47,0.27,0,0.71,0

---

Eurogenes K15:

Code:

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Ukrainian_Kiev_1,20.5,12.08,30.33,17.74,7.66,4.18,6.19,0.7,0,0,0,0,0.41,0,0.22
Ukrainian_Kiev_2,16.04,17.2,27.56,18.33,7.01,4.04,4.08,4.51,0,0.93,0,0.31,0,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_3,21.59,9.87,29.83,22.88,6.63,7.1,0.19,0,0.34,0.43,0.64,0,0.5,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_4,19.29,17.35,30.54,20.87,1.11,7.08,0.21,0.11,0,0,1.79,1.04,0,0.61,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_5,15.8,17.65,28.02,21.53,7.06,3.76,2.49,2.37,0,0,0,0,0,0.48,0.86
Ukrainian_Kiev_6,18.49,18.35,31.42,18.1,4.52,5.4,0,0.11,2.06,0,0,0.77,0.19,0,0.59
Ukrainian_Kiev_7,17.1,14.93,28.21,23.51,5.8,2.54,2.85,0,1.15,0,1.88,1.16,0.87,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_8,21.72,11.86,31.08,18.77,5.75,5.5,0.72,2.61,0.4,0.4,1.19,0,0,0.01,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_9,16.09,18.5,34.59,18.16,3.18,5.55,2.82,0.14,0,0,0,0,0.98,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_10,21.95,13.11,31.69,17.74,5.95,5.81,0,0,0.95,0,0,0.35,1.69,0,0.76
Ukrainian_Kiev_11,21.73,16.65,25.36,17.02,6.1,3.59,4.49,0,0.69,0,2.71,0.86,0.36,0,0.45
Ukrainian_Kiev_12,18.45,19,26.47,17.14,6.48,5.27,2.49,1.97,0.71,0,1.14,0.18,0.67,0,0.03
Ukrainian_Kiev_13,18.63,10.74,31.92,20.29,7.7,3.99,3.65,1.54,0,0,0,1.37,0.16,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_15,13.97,18.39,32.91,22.3,4.9,4.48,0,0.72,0.33,0,0,1.3,0,0,0.69
Ukrainian_Kiev_16,15.52,19.83,28.56,18.59,5.89,3.49,5.89,0,0,1.52,0,0,0,0,0.72
Ukrainian_Kiev_18,16.66,17.43,32.97,20.86,5.19,2.17,3.32,0,0,0,0.39,0,0.38,0,0.64
Ukrainian_Kiev_21,18.99,13.85,30.98,17.99,6.11,4,4.38,1.7,1.04,0.55,0.41,0,0,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_22,19.38,15.85,29.28,20.33,5.74,4.11,3.98,0.8,0,0,0,0.36,0,0.18,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_24,13.44,17.5,31.09,20.87,3.32,7.28,4.36,0,1.33,0,0.81,0,0.01,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_25,20.63,13.36,31.24,21.24,4.77,4.03,1.11,1.27,1.31,0,0,0.98,0,0,0.05
Ukrainian_Kiev_26,18.44,13.97,29.45,21.91,7.34,6.07,1.18,1.19,0,0.45,0,0,0,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_27,22.93,15.67,27.95,18.78,6.58,5.81,0.9,0,0.39,0,0,0.07,0.52,0,0.4
Ukrainian_Kiev_28,14.63,16.93,31.66,18.35,8.06,4.1,2.35,1.57,0,0,0,1.36,0,0.32,0.69
Ukrainian_Kiev_Avg(n=23),18.35,15.66,30.14,19.71,5.78,4.75,2.51,0.93,0.47,0.19,0.48,0.44,0.29,0.07,0.27
Ukrainian_Kiev_14_outlier,21.88,15.05,23.92,15.29,12.15,3.78,3.59,1.27,1.44,0,0.53,0.04,1.06,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_17_outlier,25.06,15.19,27.81,16.62,8.44,2.18,0,0.84,1.74,0,0.76,0.35,1,0,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_23_outlier,19.59,14.06,25.81,16.66,7.66,7.56,6.65,0.18,1.02,0,0,0,0.22,0.58,0
Ukrainian_Kiev_19_mixed,14.87,6.79,22.89,28.49,5.18,6.34,0,0.64,0.16,0.51,11.87,1.17,0,0,1.08
Ukrainian_Kiev_20_mixed,20.05,11.48,22.43,18.12,3.49,16.6,3.35,0.4,1.82,0,1.13,0,0,0.48,0.63

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See how they compare to existing K15 averages, as you can see Kiev Ukrainians appear rather eastern-shifted here:

https://i.imgur.com/nJjdc8k.png

https://i.imgur.com/GB28J8E.png

From Kiev average I removed 2 mixed with Tatars/Kavkaz and 3 too western/southern shifted compared to the rest.

^^^
According to what Leto posted, actually 70% of Ukrainians live to the east of Kiev (so should be even more eastern-shifted):

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

Not just Southern Ukraine. Most of today's Ukraine east of Kiev. That area also contains around 70% of the population.

As per the 1989 census (last Soviet census)
https://i.ibb.co/0FnwF0b/Ukraine-West-vs-East.png.

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When Peterski returns you know Slavs are back in town.

https://youtu.be/hQo1HIcSVtg

Also here is for example a Western Ukrainian with GEDCOM pedigree with both parents from Volhynia, I trust this result more than academic samples from Volhynia (from Estonian scientists) which look like they are mixed with Volhynian Poles/Czechs/Germans:

Population
North_Sea 18.69 Pct
Atlantic 15.46 Pct
Baltic 32.29 Pct
Eastern_Euro 19.61 Pct
West_Med 5.95 Pct
West_Asian 4.70 Pct
East_Med 0.28 Pct
Red_Sea 0.27 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.46 Pct
Amerindian 0.76 Pct
Oceanian 0.52 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

^^^
This Volhynian Ukrainian from GEDmatch is actually close to academic Polish samples from Lublin Voivodeship:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lublin_Voivodeship

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 32.29
2 Eastern_Euro 19.61
3 North_Sea 18.69
4 Atlantic 15.46
5 West_Med 5.95
6 West_Asian 4.7
7 Siberian 1.46
8 Amerindian 0.76
9 Oceanian 0.52
10 East_Med 0.28
11 Red_Sea 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Russian_Smolensk 4.18
2 Belorussian 4.42
3 Estonian_Polish 4.55
4 Southwest_Russian 4.58
5 Ukrainian_Belgorod 4.83
6 Polish 5.92
7 Lithuanian 5.96
8 South_Polish 6.29
9 Ukrainian 6.34
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.82
11 Estonian 8.58
12 Kargopol_Russian 10.11
13 Erzya 11.44
14 Croatian 11.58
15 Moldavian 13.54
16 East_Finnish 13.67
17 Finnish 14.34
18 Hungarian 14.82
19 Southwest_Finnish 15.46
20 Austrian 16.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.9% Lithuanian + 28.1% Moldavian @ 2.99
2 68.7% Lithuanian + 31.3% Croatian @ 3.14
3 54.7% Lithuanian + 45.3% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.39
4 52% Lithuanian + 48% South_Polish @ 3.43
5 52.3% Lithuanian + 47.7% Ukrainian @ 3.46
6 68.1% Russian_Smolensk + 31.9% Lithuanian @ 3.52
7 81.9% Lithuanian + 18.1% Romanian @ 3.54
8 67.2% Estonian_Polish + 32.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.56
9 83.2% Lithuanian + 16.8% Bulgarian @ 3.61
10 89.3% Lithuanian + 10.7% Nogay @ 3.63
11 69.7% Belorussian + 30.3% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.64
12 80.9% Lithuanian + 19.1% Serbian @ 3.67
13 60.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 39.8% Lithuanian @ 3.72
14 68.4% Belorussian + 31.6% Ukrainian @ 3.73
15 91.8% Lithuanian + 8.2% Sardinian @ 3.73
16 87.7% Lithuanian + 12.3% North_Italian @ 3.74
17 66.7% Estonian_Polish + 33.3% Ukrainian @ 3.78
18 88.4% Lithuanian + 11.6% Tuscan @ 3.8
19 91.1% Lithuanian + 8.9% Balkar @ 3.8
20 94.8% Belorussian + 5.2% Nogay @ 3.84

puntDNAL K12 Modern Oracle results:


Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 European_HG 40.03
2 Anatolian_NF 27.86
3 Caucasus_HG 22.06
4 Near_East 4.17
5 Amerindian 2.8
6 Siberian 1.37
7 Oceanian 0.94
8 East_Asian 0.77

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 5.4
2 Croatian 6.47
3 Dutch_South 7.38
4 Czech 7.47
5 Dutch_North 7.87
6 German_North 8.29
7 English_South 9.05
8 Irish 9.15
9 Romanian 9.22
10 Scottish_West 9.36
11 Utahn_European 9.54
12 Belgian 10.5
13 German_South 10.9
14 Norwegian 10.91
15 Swedish 12.07
16 Icelandic 12.17
17 Bulgarian 12.29
18 Mordovian 12.31
19 Belarusian 13.69
20 French 14.67

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68% Croatian + 32% Mordovian @ 3.26
2 74.7% Croatian + 25.3% Russian @ 3.27
3 60.8% Bulgarian + 39.2% Estonian @ 3.32
4 59.8% Bulgarian + 40.2% Finnish @ 3.36
5 52.9% Bulgarian + 47.1% Belarusian @ 3.4
6 81.1% Czech + 18.9% Nogai @ 3.47
7 60.3% Estonian + 39.7% Ashkenazi_Jew @ 3.5
8 68.7% Belarusian + 31.3% Sicilian_East @ 3.56
9 61.3% Estonian + 38.7% Sicilian_East @ 3.58
10 75.2% Belarusian + 24.8% Cypriot @ 3.59
11 67.8% Belarusian + 32.2% Ashkenazi_Jew @ 3.59
12 74.3% Icelandic + 25.7% Turkish @ 3.63
13 76.6% Croatian + 23.4% Finnish @ 3.64
14 62.1% Bulgarian + 37.9% Lithuanian @ 3.65
15 68.6% Estonian + 31.4% Cypriot @ 3.67
16 58.3% Bulgarian + 41.7% Russian @ 3.68
17 83.8% Czech + 16.2% Turkish @ 3.73
18 70.7% Icelandic + 29.3% Turkish_Aydin @ 3.8
19 67.6% Belarusian + 32.4% Sicilian_West @ 3.81
20 81.3% Czech + 18.7% Turkish_Aydin @ 3.83

^^^
What kind of sample is that?

Why would you remove S/W shifted samples? Makes no sense. These people are probably western Ukrainians and capitals have people from all regions.
It's totally unrealistic to have homogenous average from capital city.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Why would you remove S/W shifted samples?

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Because they are the only ones who are obvious immigrants, others can pass as local Central Ukrainians.

Anyway it doesn't change much in distances, here the average with 26 samples (including 3 SW-shifted):

Code:

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Ukrainian_Kiev_AvgB(n=26),18.79,15.55,29.64,19.30,6.20,4.73,2.61,0.91,0.57,0.16,0.47,0.40,0.35,0.08,0.23

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Distance to: Ukrainian_Kiev_AvgB(n=26)
3.57906412 Russian_Smolensk
4.26875860 Ukrainian_Belgorod
4.29981395 Southwest_Russian
4.44275815 South_Polish
4.91692994 Ukrainian
5.14771794 Polish
5.28524361 Belorussian
5.36008395 Ukraine_East
5.37404875 Ukrainian_Lviv
(...)

Ah, that makes sense.

I thought the contrary, that Western Ukrainians are under-represented. Who are Western Ukrainians there, apart from the person from Lviv?