Any ideas?
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Any ideas?
J2.
He was Chaldean from Mesopotamia
maybe,though arabs are supposed tio be descended from him and they're mostly J1 .Quote:
Originally Posted by Space and time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thevillager
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...stribution.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...stribution.jpg
J1. Period.
Rest is simply gibberish.
R1niggaB.
http://thegeneticgenealogist.com/200...reate-america/
R1niggas B rollin'
I suppose that Abraham might be E-CTS1273. It has TMRCA about 4000 ybp and is widely distributed. It exapnded violently. It is present not only in Old Continent, but also in Near East (although it is not as frequent here as in for example Albania). Current distribution of it might be a proof of scattering of Israelites (who are descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob). I believe that the world is about 6000 years old.
Another candidates for Abraham's haplogroup can be found in haplogroup J1. Some candidates could be: J-Y3081, J-FGC11 and J-Y6074
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyakh
E wasn't in Middle east, only J
But E-CTS12273 expanded violently about 4000 years before present. On YFull trees of J1 and J2 I did not found any subclade expanding as suddenly about 4000 ybp as E-CTS1273. But I believe in the existence of Abraham even when he was not of haplogroups E-CTS1273 or J1 or J2.
If you want to talk about biblical Abraham, not imaginery one,Quote:
Originally Posted by lyakh
then he cannot be E, as his relation with this people broke off
on the most basic level of affinity, even maybe pre-E.
If Abraham was E1b1b t would be E-M123 not E-V13/E-CTS1273. Abraham was probably J1(if he was a real person)Quote:
Originally Posted by lyakh
E-CTS1273*(?) was found in Jordan (id:YF10527).
E-S7461 (a subclade of E-CTS1273) was found in Saudi Arabia and Lebanon (that subclade has also two mutation downstream of S7461: A8612/BY5022 and Y19357/FGC44188/BY5023).
Probably J2 if he existed
I just thought of something when thinking about David's Y DNA - the Messiah was prophesised to come from the House of David, but how can that be the case if Jesus's dad was God (or at the very least, his mum was a virgin)?
Jesus could have David's Y, as he was phisically created in the womb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet
Personally I am even arguing of Mary's gamet was a base for him, but
could be. Then the Y part and his very existance was added to it by
HG - and it could be Joseph's, David's, Abraham's or just Adam's Y. Or
totaly new. doesn;t really matter what code would FTDNA reveald. One
is certain - there is no other possibility than code of the presented parts
of the line or the totaly new one. It certainly couldn't be hamitic, aryan,
oldeuropean, chinese or whatever. Either Adam-Joseph either new one.
I would agree with you, that it could be, if there would not be proof, that Israelites were J1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet
Befor that, only G, J and maybe T was on the board, with the strongest J anyway, as this is
main and actualy the ture Semitic general hg - especially J1.
And what? :picard1:Quote:
Originally Posted by lyakh
I suppose that CTS1273* lineage may be a remnant of Abraham's descendants who lived in the territory of Jordan in ancient times. E-V13 and its descendant E-CTS1273 are found mostly in the Old Continent, but few lineages of CTS1273 were found in Near East. Why they are present there?
You suppose about some imaginery Abraham.Quote:
Originally Posted by lyakh
I allready explained why the biblical Abraham cannot be E at all.
We are not talking here about your imaginery Abramek, but about the biblical.
So why E-CTS1273 (which is the main subclade of E-V13) lineages are present in Jordan (id:YF10527), Saudi Arabia (id:YF11029), Lebanon (id:YF08632, id:YF08636) and United Arab Emirates (id:YF09171, id:YF08217)? Lineage found in Jordan is especially interesting, because it diverges from others very early, is CTS1273*.
Abraham was Y DNA I1, like me
As I said before, if he was E1b1b it would be E-M123 and not V13 which has an origin within EuropeQuote:
Originally Posted by lyakh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn Master
Becasue such people lived there?????Quote:
Originally Posted by lyakh
What it has to do with Abraham? First
read the story, understand it, and then
say something about his hg. :bored:
Back migration from the Balkans could be a reason why it's present in the near east. E-V13 originates in the Balkans as suggested by diversity and aDNAQuote:
Originally Posted by lyakh
Why E-V13 (more precisely CTS1273) expanded suddenly about 4000 years before present? In which culture might happen the expansion of E-V13?
What about lost ten tribes of Israel?
Jesus Christ wth is this thread!!!
He didn't exist, but even if he did, how would you possibly know for sure?! It's all guesses - and the Middle East is too mixed in Y DNA for any guess to be accurate!
Because earlier didn't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by lyakh
Partialy remained the part of diaspora, some returned to theQuote:
Judea and Galilea - but mainly assimilated into ME people.
E-V13 originated among the late Neolithic cultures from the Balkans or southern Europe as suggested by it's father clade E-L618 having been found in Neolithic Croatia and V13 being found in Neolithic Spain although it has the highest diversity in the Balkans, it's possibly linked to the Cardium pottery culture. The Israelites were J1, J2, E-M123 etc not V13, they will release aDNA from Bronze Age Israel soon which will give us better insights to their haplogroupsQuote:
Originally Posted by lyakh
:picard2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet
If you would even basic education, you would know, that his
provenance is described in every needed detail. There is no
too much space for guessing. Only ignorants do that.
Hamlet,
don;t be butthurted.
If you pretend to be a Jew, at least learn the story... :picard2:
Is the sample from Spain confirmed as having V13 mutation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmendasi
It is interesting what will be aDNA from ancient Israel. When the data will be released?
Nothing because he probably didn't exist.
Even fictional characters can have determined hg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teucer
For example, there is a fictional character from literature, let's say fictional
Arnold Copernikus living in the year 2523 from the yet fictional novel: "Trek
to the Andromeda", who is described as descendant of Nicolaus Copernicus.
Then his hg will be certainly R1b, as the needed requirements are describing,
what hg the guy should be. So even if you consider Abram the Abraham to
be a fictional, then you certainly can say what hg supposedly he can be.
And certainly he cannot be E, the same as can't be M or H, or R1.
But he obviously existed, he was a progenitor of the Israelites,
Edomites, Midianites, Nabateans and many others, and he was J1.
If we want to infer then he was probably some variety of J.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
Why, just because they say that he was?
The most incredible thing about Abraham isn't his haplogroup, but the fact he was chaldean much before the existence of Chaldea (Chronological errors in Bible).
Just becasue the historical source says, he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teucer
The same as about Charlemagne, Alexander the Great, Nabuchodonozor aso...
Yes it is confirmed V13. The data will be released either this year or early next yearQuote:
Originally Posted by lyakh
Noone never said, he was Chaldean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacrificed Ram
You are arguing with your own imaginations.
But Chaldeans obviously existed at that time
and if they have something to do with the
Arpachshad, then he was. But the text does
not say it, neither claims. Being from the city
Ur Kaśdim, doesn;t mean being a Chaldean.
J1
Are you claiming Biblical texts who have it in their interest to present Abraham as a real person to justify their religion as a credible historical source akin to Arian and Plutarch?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel