Where do you think this haplogroup came from?
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Where do you think this haplogroup came from?
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Central Africa -> North Africa -> Europe ...
To be real; e-v13 itself probably originated in west Asia; before moving into Europe. Basal E and other clades of E1b including the predecessor clade of E-v13 are African; but the e-v13 subclade wasn't itself born in Africa.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiloshN
"It was concluded that northeastern Africa, rather than eastern Africa, was where the E-M78 chromosomes began dispersing to other regions.[35] The most plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in Western Asia.[36] A hypothesis is that E-M78 carriers devoid of V13 mutation left Africa and that the coalescene occurred later in the Near East/Anatolia.[36] Data suggests that Western Asian carriers of V13 expanded in Europe at earliest 5300 years ago.[36] The TMRCA of European V13 is 4700–4000 years ago.[36] Phylogenetic analysis suggest that the European v13 spread through Europe from the Balkans in a "rapid demographic expansion".[36]"
What specific peoples/civilizations brought it to Europe? Which ancient European civilizations do you think had it in high numbers? Thracians? Illyrians? Greek?Quote:
Originally Posted by MiloshN
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Are you E-V13?
Neolithic farmers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daos777
Neolithic farmers tested have only 1% E1b actually; only G2a and I2a are significant lineages found among the neolithic farmers. E-v13 grew later on through some sort of rapid founder effect/population boom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondie
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...89/unknown.png
Quote:
"For many years the vast majority of academics have assumed that E-V13 and other E1b1b lineages came to the Balkans from the southern Levant via Anatolia during the Neolithic, and that the high frequency of E-V13 was caused by a founder effect among the colonisers. This theory has it that E1b1b people were associated with the development of Neolithic lifestyle and the advent of agriculture in the Fertile Crescent and its earliest diffusion to Southeast Europe (Thessalian Neolithic) and Mediterranean Europe (Cardium Pottery culture). The testing of ancient DNA from the Natufian culture (Mesolithic Levant) and Pre-Pottery Neolithic Levant confirmed a high incidence of haplogroup E1b1b in that region. However, out of 69 Y-DNA samples tested from Neolithic Europe, only two belonged to that haplogroup: one E-M78 from the Sopot culture in Hungary (5000-4800 BCE), another E-M78 (c. 5000 BCE), possibly E-V13, from north-east Spain, and a E-L618 from Zemunica cave near Split in Croatia from 5500 BCE (Fernandes et al., 2016). Whether these E-M78 samples came with Neolithic farmers from the Near East or were already present among Mesolithic Europeans is unclear at present. But in any case E-V13 was definitely not the major Neolithic European lineage it was once alleged to be.
Nowadays E-V13 is the only Mediterranean haplogroup consistently found throughout Europe, even in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Baltic countries, which are conspicuous by the absence of other Neolithic haplogroups like G2a (bar the Indo-European G2a-Z1815), J1 and T (except in Estonia). However, since G2a is the only lineage that was consistently found in all Neolithic sites tested to date in Europe, the absence of Neolithic G2a lineages from Scandinavia and the Baltic implies that no Neolithic lineage survives there, and consequently E-V13 does not date from the Neolithic in the region.
In fact, it has been calculated that E-V13 emerged from E-M78 some 7,800 years ago, when Neolithic farmers were advancing into the Balkans and the Danubian basin. Furthermore, all the modern members of E-V13 descend from a common ancestor who lived approximately 5,500 years ago, and all of them also descend from a later common ancestor who carried the CTS5856 mutation. That ancestor would have lived about 4,100 years ago, during the Bronze Age. Almost immediately afterwards, CTS5856 split into six subclades, then branched off into even more subclades in the space of a few generations. In just a few centuries, that very minor E-V13 lineage had started an expansion process that would turn it into one of Europe's most widespread paternal lineages and reach far beyond the borders of Europe itself, also spreading to the eastern edge of the Mediterranean, the Caucasus, Kurdistan, Iran, and even Siberia.
This data suggests that the fate of E-V13 was linked to the elite dominance of Bronze Age society. The geographic distribution of the six main branches show that E-V13 quickly spread to all parts of Europe, but was especially common in Central Europe. The only Bronze Age migration that could account for such a fast and far-reaching dispersal is that of the Proto-Indo-Europeans. At present the most consistent explanation is that E-V13 developed from E-M78 in Central or Eastern Europe during the Neolithic period, and was assimilated by the R1a and R1b Proto-Indo-Europeans around the time that they were leaving the Pontic Steppe to invade the rest of Europe."
lol...I do wish there was less mystery about E-V13. Seems like there is more speculation than good research. Interesting to see it distributed as far north as Estonia (4.05%).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayetooey
Gagarin brought it with Vostok from the orbit in order to form a new haplogroup in the Balkans to support Russia's Pan-Slavist ideas.
Yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspirin
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I confirm thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaspias
It distributes pretty much all over Europe; yet every neolithic site we find has only G2a, and sometimes I2a. Which implies that E-v13 was not wide spread at all, and the population boom happened later on. Interesting considering G2a which was 61% of all neolithic European Y dnas, is now very low throughout Europe. I think E-v13 thrived when the PIE came to Europe, as the piece I linked above suggests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daco Celtic
"This data suggests that the fate of E-V13 was linked to the elite dominance of Bronze Age society. The geographic distribution of the six main branches show that E-V13 quickly spread to all parts of Europe, but was especially common in Central Europe. The only Bronze Age migration that could account for such a fast and far-reaching dispersal is that of the Proto-Indo-Europeans. At present the most consistent explanation is that E-V13 developed from E-M78 in Central or Eastern Europe during the Neolithic period, and was assimilated by the R1a and R1b Proto-Indo-Europeans around the time that they were leaving the Pontic Steppe to invade the rest of Europe.""
E-v13 was more than likely an elite haplogroup within these early PIE cultures hence the population boom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayetooey
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/07...ained.html?m=1
“Who was the E-V13 patriarch in Greece? He was perhaps one of the legendary figures of Greek mythology some of whom are said to have come from abroad. For whatever reason, his progeny grew, and were around to participate in the expansion of the Mycenaean world and the subsequent Greek colonization.“
We wuz patriarchal legendary Greeks and sheit.
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Yup, G2a is original Anatolian farmer lineage, later they absorbed I2a hunter gatherers who switched to farming (Basque-Sardinian clade if I am not mistaken)
E-V13 and J2 are later entries into Europe.
E-V13 might ve Pelasgian/Sea Peoples marker, thats my guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daos777
This makes complete sense in my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feiichy
In my opinion E-V13 had to be a descendant of a Natufian (E1b was one of their main Y-Haplos) derived culture which lived along the Mediterranean coast around the Levant. They spread into Greece, Greek Islands, Adriatic coast and eventually Italian coast(Etruscans). All regions that were not heavily populated by European hunter gathers and Neolithic farmers. Pelasgians are the only people to fit this description.
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A parent to E-V13 was found among the Iberomaursian cultureQuote:
Originally Posted by Daos777
“The male specimens with sufficient nuclear DNA preservation belonged to the paternal haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (M78), with one skeleton bearing the E1b1b1a1b1 parent lineage to E-V13, one male specimen belonged to E1b1b (M215*)”
Also haplogroup E being African is complete BS. Haplogroup E did not develop in Africa. It developed in the Levant/Middle East. Then it migrated to Africa conquering the negroids and taking their thick chocolate women away.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b41cc6f5d6.jpg
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BumpQuote:
Originally Posted by Daos777
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I'm just learning about it myself but seems like a hell of a haplogroup. Lots of people here are jealous of it. It's hard to get a straight answer on TA because everyone is a cheerleader/PR person for their own haplogroup. Anyway, this is a map showing that E-V13 dudes impregnated chicks throughout Europe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Daos777
https://i.imgur.com/btt6xJf.gif
Lol thats what I hate about people in general lack of objectivity. I honestly don’t care if it came from god damn Tanzania just show me the proof. What doesn’t add up to me is parent clades being found in North Africa(oldest) and Spain(Mesolithic). And outside of the Natufian samples no more recent E-V13 parent clades were found in the Levant where it supposedly came from. That’s kind of weird to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daco Celtic
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What about G1?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayetooey
Evolved from early Neolithic Farmers who settled in Europe via a particular mutation.
Probably these Farmers lived first mainly in South East Europe and from there spread into different directions
Neolithic FarmersQuote:
Originally Posted by Daos777
G is more Iranian centered, but also Neolithic Farmers.Quote:
Originally Posted by jingorex
But why is it almost non existent in Neolithic farmer samples?Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean
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Egyptian origins - Cypro-Crete had a decent amount of ancient cultural similarities with ancient Egyptians.
Sesklo & Dimini cultures was 70% E and first known neolithic culture in Europe 10,000 years ago.
Hm yeah but Crete is the place in Greece with the lowest EV13 actuallyQuote:
Originally Posted by catgeorge
+1Quote:
Sesklo & Dimini cultures was 70% E and first known neolithic culture in Europe 10,000 years ago.
Neolithic Farmers is a pretty loose term, E and G probably trickled in long before the actually farming boom. But E wasn't the main lineage so I assume it was more dispersed and less remains have been found.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daos777
I didnt say they mated like crazy I said their was likely contacts trade or other. Maybe one of the E tribes travelled further into Greek mainland and grew that two separate tribes developed later known as Sesklo and Dimini.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDorian
I think E-V13 could have a connection to Vinca culture, one of the earliest civilization in Europe. This is an interesting blog post: http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.bl...asin-5700.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin%C4%8Da_culture
Quote:
Originally Posted by catgeorge
Yeah why i found that interesting or remarkable was because one might ask wether the Minoans or Eteocretans had high EV13 but it seems not because
todays Cretans have lower than rest of Greeks and even Cretans have received many later influences from Dorians"and what not" they are among todays
Greeks still the population genetically closest to Minoans.
But most interesting is the second part because Sesklo and Dimini are where the oldest samples have been found(i think) which would mean
that EV13 originated in Greece or is native to Greece
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daco Celtic
Shhhh, the serbs must not hear this
Africa, this is known even in the moon.
https://mk0brilliantmaptxoqs.kinstac...NA-borders.png
Let's see those DNA results. I guessing 15% North African for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo
Why is every sub clade of E just represented by E and the other ones are broken down further? Lmao seems like the guy who made this map saw a 5 minute YouTube video about Haplogroups then made this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo
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It most certainly originated in Eastern Africa and arrived to Europe through contact with Levantines from the mesolithic era onwards.Iirc the Druze themselves have a variant of E-V13.
Well the Natufians were around 40 percent haplogroup E and they are a pre-Mesolithic civilization so that wouldn’t make sense that it only arrived in the Levant during the Mesolithic. Also the formation of E itself did not happen in Africa, the split of DE happened in the Levant and a lot of E back migrated to Africa and who knows were else E people headed after the DE split.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voskos
There are some Mesolithic samples of parent clades of E-V13 in Europe but it was only arriving in the Levant at that time?
Also the Druze are a very mixed people comprised of Anatolians, Armenians, caucasians, and some Jews. Who knows were their E came from?
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7900525531.jpg
This map from Eupedia seems to be pretty accurate in my opinion.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daos777
Since when are Druze a mixed people?
Druze are something like the Gheg Albanians of Lebanon and you think these people are mixed....