Slavs among Vikings

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10-11-2020, 03:55 PM
vbnetkhio

Slavs among Vikings

Lucas ran 353 Viking samples trough Eurogenes k13 here

based on their similarity to the other Early slavic samples we have, i think these Viking samples from the new study could be of Slavic or mostly Slavic ancestry:

Code:

Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK274,30.81,34.11,13.89,9.49,6.21,0.48,2.68,0.16,0.33,1.06,0,0,0.79 Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26,8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0 Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9.89,5.02,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0 Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK339,30.19,38.31,4.19,7.6,13.21,0,0,0,0,0,2.03,2.99,1.47 Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.53,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62 Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63,3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0 Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19,34.33,39.57,9.56,6.08,4.86,0,0,1.29,0.94,1.44,0.09,0,1.85 Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.1,42.86,8.37,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.6,0,1.68,2.01,0,0,0.56 Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14.97,2.7,4.74,0.3,0.73,2.49,0,0.34,1.21,1.4,0 Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29 Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43.78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0.87

these are the early Slavs from earlier studies:

Code:

AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_1356_ybp,30.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0,1.56,0.94,0,0.46,0 I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_ybp,30.89,37.94,12.04,8.95,5.72,0.86,0,0,2.09,0.47,0.11,0.93,0 Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,45.83,13.05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64,0.42,0 AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp,29.17,40.22,11.71,8.24,7.15,0.06,1.56,0,0.48,0.97,0.27,0,0.17

these also plot close to early Slavs, but they are probably very low quality samples, because they have 0% of West Med, East med or west asian (or maybe not?):

Code:

Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK253,30.11,35.37,0,0,18.72,0,7.79,0,0,3.56,1.28,3.17,0,0 Viking_Poland_Czersk_VK200,32.66,33.56,4.26,0,10.97,9.51,0,0,1.27,7.76,0,0,0,0 Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK251,28.95,43.59,8.7,0,7.29,5.07,0,2.47,0,3.78,0,0,0.16,0.16 Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK457,27.06,46.57,9.09,5.2,0,1.45,3.09,2.19,2.29,1.54,1.04,0,0.48,0.48 Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK466,25.85,43.15,9.22,12.82,0,0,2.34,0.15,0,2.09,1.69,0,2.69,2.69

the average of all these except the low quality samples:

Code:

Early_Slav,28.21,43.11,10.46,6.20,6.54,0.48,1.16,0.32,1.03,0.79,0.46,0.73,0.51
10-11-2020, 04:10 PM
Leto

Distance to: Early_Slav
2.21124399 Ukrainian
2.97674319 South_Polish
3.08925557 Ukrainian_Lviv
4.51446564 Polish
5.39132637 Southwest_Russian
5.57548204 Sorb_Lusatia
5.96903677 Masurian
6.20076608 Ukrainian_Belgorod
6.44835638 Russian_Smolensk
6.63892311 Cossacks_Kuban
6.74361179 Russian
7.05586281 Estonian_Polish
7.18280615 Slovak
7.67295901 Belorussian
7.81646339 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
8.30454695 Czech
8.96581842 Hungarian_Northern
9.65068391 Croat_Croatia_Zagorje
10.37454095 Kargopol_Russian
10.53977229 Croat_Croatia_Central

Target: Early_Slav
Distance: 1.8832% / 1.88318580 | ADC: 1x
79.0 Ukrainian
21.0 South_Polish

Target: Early_Slav
Distance: 1.2900% / 1.29002624 | ADC: 0.5x
46.2 Ukrainian
36.8 South_Polish
14.0 Southwest_Russian
2.8 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.2 Sandawe

Target: Early_Slav
Distance: 0.7077% / 0.70772674 | ADC: 0.25x
39.8 South_Polish
29.4 Ukrainian
23.6 Southwest_Russian
4.4 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
2.0 Sorb_Lusatia
0.6 Sandawe
0.2 Ethiopian_Amhara

Glory to Ukraina, you bitches :swl
10-11-2020, 04:11 PM
vbnetkhio

updated k13 distances:

<table class="distances"><tbody><tr><th>Distance to: </th><th>Early_Slav</th></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(102.31004804981087, 100%, 50%)">2.21124399</td><td>Ukrainian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(96.1860545058153, 100%, 50%)">2.97674319</td><td>South_Polish</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(95.28595540992937, 100%, 50%)">3.08925557</td><td>Ukrainian_Lviv</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(83.88427489306076, 100%, 50%)">4.51446564</td><td>Polish</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(76.86938906066828, 100%, 50%)">5.39132637</td><td>Southwest_Russian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(75.39614366447674, 100%, 50%)">5.57548204</td><td>Sorb_Lusatia</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(72.24770581427528, 100%, 50%)">5.96903677</td><td>Masurian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(70.39387134637497, 100%, 50%)">6.20076608</td><td>Ukrainian_Belgorod</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(68.41314896216284, 100%, 50%)">6.44835638</td><td>Russian_Smolensk</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(66.88861515644692, 100%, 50%)">6.63892311</td><td>Cossacks_Kuban</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(66.05110566471265, 100%, 50%)">6.74361179</td><td>Russian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(63.553097516338426, 100%, 50%)">7.05586281</td><td>Estonian_Polish</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(62.53755082571979, 100%, 50%)">7.18280615</td><td>Slovak</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(58.61632790391243, 100%, 50%)">7.67295901</td><td>Belorussian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(57.46829284275056, 100%, 50%)">7.81646339</td><td>Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(53.563624421556526, 100%, 50%)">8.30454695</td><td>Czech</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(48.273452613415174, 100%, 50%)">8.96581842</td><td>Hungarian_Northern</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(42.79452869129031, 100%, 50%)">9.65068391</td><td>Croat_Croatia_Zagorje</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(37.003672370399414, 100%, 50%)">10.37454095</td><td>Kargopol_Russian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(35.681821651556064, 100%, 50%)">10.53977229</td><td>Croat_Croatia_Central</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(33.724460013280705, 100%, 50%)">10.78444250</td><td>Slovenian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(30.33241834419755, 100%, 50%)">11.20844771</td><td>Croat_Croatia_Slavonia</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(29.383974927168637, 100%, 50%)">11.32700313</td><td>Bosniak_Bosnia_proper</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(26.473738447428573, 100%, 50%)">11.69078269</td><td>Hungarian_Alfold</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(23.44381117711822, 100%, 50%)">12.06952360</td><td>Croat_Croatia</td></tr></tbody></table>

Very close to the Ukrainian average, which is made mostly of West Ukrainian samples.
10-11-2020, 04:22 PM
Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

Very close to the Ukrainian average, which is made mostly of West Ukrainian samples.

Not too different from this person
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-Euro-ancestry
10-11-2020, 05:45 PM
vbnetkhio

these 2 samples help explain the low North Atlantic and High Baltic among South Slavs:

Code:

Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29 Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43.78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0.87

about the mostly East Slavic origin of South Slavs:

Quote:

The picture that archeology provides on this problem is far from complete. But it tends to support the views of historians convinced of the eastern origin of the Southern Slavs rather than the conclusion of scholars who assume a considerable influx of Western Slav tribes to the Balkans. So far no definite find has been made on the territory of Yugoslavia of the Prague type, which would indicate a movement from Central Europe. The finds of early Slav hand-made pottery are very rare in this region and tend to resemble the Romanian, which is of Eastern Slav origin. As an example we can cite investigations carried out in 1966 near the village of Mušiči on the banks of the Drina. In the ruins of a Roman villa simple semi-subterranean dwellings of oval shape were dug up with sherds from the sixth to seventh century, revealing an undeniably eastern origin. Beside them there were fragments of a different pottery, which probably did not belong to the Slavs but to the remnants of the local Romanized population, who gradually merged with the new arrivals, the Slavs. Similar signs of symbiosis have been discovered in other places, e.g. at Žabljak near Doboj; they also show the character of a later Slavonic culture combined with a number of elements of ancient local tradition.

https://i.imgur.com/iTQ34vr.png
10-11-2020, 06:13 PM
Jana

Target: Stearsolina
Distance: 2.2075% / 2.20747415

63.8 Early_Slav
10.4 Abhkasian
8.2 French_Basque
7.8 Norwegian
5.4 Sardinia
4.4 IT_Trentino
10-11-2020, 06:15 PM
Dušan

I got these new samples when I added it in ancient K13.

Target: Dušan
Distance: 1.2201% / 1.22011360 | ADC: 0.25x
29.2 Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541
25.6 Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542
20.2 I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp
9.8 scy301_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG
8.2 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_
4.6 DA195_Hungary_Scythian.SG_2553_ybp
2.4 RISE480_Hungary_Vatya.SG_3550_ybp
10-11-2020, 06:18 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

I got these new samples when I added it in ancient K13.

Target: Dušan
Distance: 1.2201% / 1.22011360 | ADC: 0.25x
29.2 Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541
25.6 Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542
20.2 I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp
9.8 scy301_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG
8.2 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_
4.6 DA195_Hungary_Scythian.SG_2553_ybp
2.4 RISE480_Hungary_Vatya.SG_3550_ybp

mine

Distance: 1.3851% / 1.38506390 | ADC: 0.25x
47.4 Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542
21.4 RISE480_Hungary_Vatya.SG_3550_ybp
16.8 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_
14.4 I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp
10-11-2020, 06:21 PM
andre

Target: Csango_Siret
Distance: 3.2899% / 3.28986663
56.8 Early_Slav
26.2 IT_Umbria
9.8 North-Dutch
7.2 Turkmen

Target: Andre
Distance: 4.5778% / 4.57776331
49.2 Early_Slav
47.0 IT_Umbria
3.8 Turkmen
10-11-2020, 06:22 PM
Dušan

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

mine

Distance: 1.3851% / 1.38506390 | ADC: 0.25x
47.4 Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542
21.4 RISE480_Hungary_Vatya.SG_3550_ybp
16.8 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_
14.4 I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp

Is I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp Thracian?
10-11-2020, 06:26 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

Is I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp Thracian?

it seems so. it's labeled as neolithic, but it obvoiusly has some indo-European already, it's around 20% north atlantic and Baltic.
10-11-2020, 06:29 PM
Jana

Try this, I saved samples from Vbnethkio old model which works great for Balkanites and added these from OP (except low quality samples).

Spoiler!

Code:

Iron_age_Balkan:I2175_Bulgaria_EBA_5122_ybp,25.65,9.85,35.91,0,25.77,1.7,0,0,0,0,0,1.11,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I2176_Bulgaria_EBA_published_5132_ybp,24.99,12.62,32.15,0,26.93,2.15,0,0,0.01,0.88,0,0.26,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp,30.68,13,27.73,10.03,16.07,0.6,0,1.05,0,0.21,0,0,0.64 Iron_age_Balkan:Bul6_Bulgaria_Beli_Breyag_EBA_4450_ybp,22.05,11.26,35.23,0.72,25.07,5.42,0,0,0,0,0.25,0,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I2165_Bulgaria_EBA_4908_ybp,30.55,21.81,20.01,8.06,12.49,5.56,0,0,0,0.17,1.35,0,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30,9.21,28.33,4.36,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I2520_Bulgaria_EBA_5132_ybp,23.15,16.12,30.59,0.13,25.02,3.53,0,0.35,0,0,1.12,0,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15,12.62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0,0,0.38,0,0,0,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp,33.68,12.02,24.41,7.67,19.6,1.39,0,0,0,1.23,0,0,0 Roman:R132_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.49,0,24.28,1.26,35.08,12.33,0,1.72,0.41,0,0.6,8.28,2.57 Roman:R80_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,15.29,0.52,23.55,5.43,37.6,11.68,0,0.2,0,0,0.26,4.42,1.06 Roman:R42_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,0.53,0,15.4,20.48,43.2,14.76,1.31,1.03,0,0,0,3.29,0 Roman:R1547_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.97,0,17.54,19.13,43.1,13.27,2.48,0,0,0,0,2.51,0 Roman:R1550_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.93,0,17.45,22.44,37.8,13.78,2.1,0.71,0,0.02,0.31,2.45,0 Roman:R41_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.7,0,21.47,17.49,39.58,7.59,0.39,1.94,0,0.76,0.14,1.91,0.03 Roman:R67_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.11,0.88,12.12,32.7,36.78,9.27,3.73,0.37,0,0.32,0.39,1.9,0.44 Roman:R45_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.66,2.53,24.25,10.61,36.68,8.16,0,1.14,0,0,1.4,1.69,0.89 Roman:R70_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.21,2.28,19.34,21.39,41.91,10.3,0,0,0,0.19,0,1.38,0 Roman:R75_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.62,0,22.68,21.74,35.29,9.37,0,0.37,0,0.21,0.47,1.25,0 Roman:R73_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.96,1.16,19.72,17.3,34.38,11.41,2.22,0.01,0.03,0.19,0,1.21,0.41 Roman:R68_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.31,0,13.79,30.08,39.44,10.13,3.04,0,0,0,0,1.07,0.14 Roman:R1549_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,22.71,9.87,15.99,12.66,27.94,6.69,0.86,1.18,0,0,1.29,0.81,0 Roman:R76_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.62,3.3,16.77,23.96,38.85,10.18,1.73,0,0,0.82,0,0.77,0 Roman:R47_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.98,5.83,21.98,16.85,28.76,6.43,0,0,0.29,0.72,0.51,0.64,0 Roman:R1543_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.86,0.47,16.98,14.67,40.12,7.56,1.33,1.13,0,0.31,0,0.57,0 Roman:R49_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.25,8.08,21.47,16.31,31.17,4.53,0,0,0,0.2,1.31,0.53,0.15 Roman:R115_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.94,4.56,21.96,20.12,34.47,7.02,1.72,0.93,0,0,0,0.26,0 Roman:R125_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,15.24,4.84,25.65,22.02,27.75,3.78,0,0,0,0,0.54,0.18,0 Roman:R1548_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.7,7.83,17.2,21.18,31.85,6.18,0.1,0,1.17,0,0.7,0.07,0.01 Roman:R835_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.48,7.33,22.76,15.83,28.17,4.29,2.11,0,0,0.18,0.49,0,1.37 Roman:R50_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.8,5.92,19.69,18.96,31.66,8.21,1.77,0.13,0,0,0,0,0.87 Roman:R126_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,6.85,0,21.95,22.6,37.03,8.91,0.98,0.75,0,0,0.22,0,0.71 Roman:R131_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,18.55,6.06,22.93,13.3,31.22,5.99,0,1.15,0,0.4,0,0,0.4 Roman:R38_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.92,0,18.71,28.11,41.51,8.68,0,0,0,0.45,0.34,0,0.28 Roman:R40_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.72,0,23,19.52,36.2,5.66,0,0.47,0.15,0,0,0,0.27 Roman:R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,7.27,26.59,13.06,25.7,1.65,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 Roman:R113_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,4.01,26.05,11.36,28.27,3.92,0,0,0,0.46,0.2,0,0 Roman:R114_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.19,6.78,18.04,19.02,29.56,7.35,0.58,0.77,0,0.7,0,0,0 Roman:R123_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,12.03,4.13,19.45,20.54,37.07,3.99,0,0.97,0,0,1.83,0,0 Roman:R128_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,2.63,8.5,21.08,27.13,34.24,5.03,0,0,0,0.84,0.55,0,0 Roman:R1544_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.53,4.64,21.39,18.62,31.87,3.82,1.51,0,0.43,0.3,0.89,0,0 Roman:R1545_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.35,3.4,22.3,23.93,31.78,7.44,0.06,0,0,0,0.73,0,0 Roman:R1551_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.31,0,12.6,36.12,34.89,8.22,2.15,0.72,0,0,0,0,0 Roman:R39_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,9.38,2.57,24.97,19.78,34.82,5.66,0,1.74,0.29,0.78,0,0,0 Roman:R43_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.19,0,22.2,21.83,39.45,3.15,0.45,0,0,0.08,0.65,0,0 Roman:R44_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.45,0,23.48,18.04,38.86,5.16,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 Roman:R51_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,20.47,1.28,20.11,15.05,34.89,5.56,0,0.17,0,0.59,1.88,0,0 Roman:R66_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,7.81,1.07,23.57,24.26,37.48,4.96,0,0,0,0,0.85,0,0 Roman:R69_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.48,4.41,24.55,22.98,33.7,0.54,0,0.59,0,0.5,0.25,0,0 Roman:R71_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,6.09,0.06,20.33,24.54,44.64,3.4,0,0,0,0,0.94,0,0 Roman:R72_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.24,0,22.92,19.04,41.2,5.12,0,0,0.57,0,0.91,0,0 Roman:R78_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.76,2.77,22.82,22.14,43.72,2.03,0,0.1,0,0.27,0.39,0,0 Roman:R81_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.54,2.43,22.21,17.14,39.17,4.79,1.98,0,0,0,0.74,0,0 Roman:R836_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.9,4.35,25.43,19.62,29.98,1.61,0,0,0,0.28,0.83,0,0 Slavic:I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_ybp,30.89,37.94,12.04,8.95,5.72,0.86,0,0,2.09,0.47,0.11,0.93,0 Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_1356_ybp,30.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0,1.56,0.94,0,0.46,0 Slavic:Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,45.83,13.05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64,0.42,0 Slavic:AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp,29.17,40.22,11.71,8.24,7.15,0.06,1.56,0,0.48,0.97,0.27,0,0.17 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK274,30.81,34.11,13.89,9.49,6.21,0.48,2.68,0.16,0.33,1.06,0,0,0.79 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26,8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9.89,5.02,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK339,30.19,38.31,4.19,7.6,13.21,0,0,0,0,0,2.03,2.99,1.47 Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.53,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62 Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63,3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0 Slavic:Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19,34.33,39.57,9.56,6.08,4.86,0,0,1.29,0.94,1.44,0.09,0,1.85 Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.1,42.86,8.37,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.6,0,1.68,2.01,0,0,0.56 Slavic:Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14.97,2.7,4.74,0.3,0.73,2.49,0,0.34,1.21,1.4,0 Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29 Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43.78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0.87

I get fantastic fit!

Target: Stearsolina
Distance: 1.7975% / 1.79751284

77.8 Slavic
15.2 Iron_age_Balkan
7.0 Roman

This is first time I get such low fit without need for Germanic and Caucasus samples.
10-11-2020, 06:32 PM
Dušan

Target: Dušan
Distance: 1.3992% / 1.39920409
69.2 Slavic
20.6 Roman
10.2 Iron_age_Balkan
10-11-2020, 06:33 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Try this, I saved samples from Vbnethkio old model which works great for Balkanites and added these from OP (except low quality samples).

Spoiler!

Code:

Iron_age_Balkan:I2175_Bulgaria_EBA_5122_ybp,25.65,9.85,35.91,0,25.77,1.7,0,0,0,0,0,1.11,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I2176_Bulgaria_EBA_published_5132_ybp,24.99,12.62,32.15,0,26.93,2.15,0,0,0.01,0.88,0,0.26,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp,30.68,13,27.73,10.03,16.07,0.6,0,1.05,0,0.21,0,0,0.64 Iron_age_Balkan:Bul6_Bulgaria_Beli_Breyag_EBA_4450_ybp,22.05,11.26,35.23,0.72,25.07,5.42,0,0,0,0,0.25,0,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I2165_Bulgaria_EBA_4908_ybp,30.55,21.81,20.01,8.06,12.49,5.56,0,0,0,0.17,1.35,0,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30,9.21,28.33,4.36,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I2520_Bulgaria_EBA_5132_ybp,23.15,16.12,30.59,0.13,25.02,3.53,0,0.35,0,0,1.12,0,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15,12.62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0,0,0.38,0,0,0,0 Iron_age_Balkan:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp,33.68,12.02,24.41,7.67,19.6,1.39,0,0,0,1.23,0,0,0 Roman:R132_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.49,0,24.28,1.26,35.08,12.33,0,1.72,0.41,0,0.6,8.28,2.57 Roman:R80_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,15.29,0.52,23.55,5.43,37.6,11.68,0,0.2,0,0,0.26,4.42,1.06 Roman:R42_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,0.53,0,15.4,20.48,43.2,14.76,1.31,1.03,0,0,0,3.29,0 Roman:R1547_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.97,0,17.54,19.13,43.1,13.27,2.48,0,0,0,0,2.51,0 Roman:R1550_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.93,0,17.45,22.44,37.8,13.78,2.1,0.71,0,0.02,0.31,2.45,0 Roman:R41_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.7,0,21.47,17.49,39.58,7.59,0.39,1.94,0,0.76,0.14,1.91,0.03 Roman:R67_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.11,0.88,12.12,32.7,36.78,9.27,3.73,0.37,0,0.32,0.39,1.9,0.44 Roman:R45_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.66,2.53,24.25,10.61,36.68,8.16,0,1.14,0,0,1.4,1.69,0.89 Roman:R70_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.21,2.28,19.34,21.39,41.91,10.3,0,0,0,0.19,0,1.38,0 Roman:R75_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.62,0,22.68,21.74,35.29,9.37,0,0.37,0,0.21,0.47,1.25,0 Roman:R73_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.96,1.16,19.72,17.3,34.38,11.41,2.22,0.01,0.03,0.19,0,1.21,0.41 Roman:R68_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.31,0,13.79,30.08,39.44,10.13,3.04,0,0,0,0,1.07,0.14 Roman:R1549_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,22.71,9.87,15.99,12.66,27.94,6.69,0.86,1.18,0,0,1.29,0.81,0 Roman:R76_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.62,3.3,16.77,23.96,38.85,10.18,1.73,0,0,0.82,0,0.77,0 Roman:R47_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.98,5.83,21.98,16.85,28.76,6.43,0,0,0.29,0.72,0.51,0.64,0 Roman:R1543_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.86,0.47,16.98,14.67,40.12,7.56,1.33,1.13,0,0.31,0,0.57,0 Roman:R49_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.25,8.08,21.47,16.31,31.17,4.53,0,0,0,0.2,1.31,0.53,0.15 Roman:R115_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.94,4.56,21.96,20.12,34.47,7.02,1.72,0.93,0,0,0,0.26,0 Roman:R125_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,15.24,4.84,25.65,22.02,27.75,3.78,0,0,0,0,0.54,0.18,0 Roman:R1548_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.7,7.83,17.2,21.18,31.85,6.18,0.1,0,1.17,0,0.7,0.07,0.01 Roman:R835_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.48,7.33,22.76,15.83,28.17,4.29,2.11,0,0,0.18,0.49,0,1.37 Roman:R50_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.8,5.92,19.69,18.96,31.66,8.21,1.77,0.13,0,0,0,0,0.87 Roman:R126_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,6.85,0,21.95,22.6,37.03,8.91,0.98,0.75,0,0,0.22,0,0.71 Roman:R131_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,18.55,6.06,22.93,13.3,31.22,5.99,0,1.15,0,0.4,0,0,0.4 Roman:R38_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.92,0,18.71,28.11,41.51,8.68,0,0,0,0.45,0.34,0,0.28 Roman:R40_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.72,0,23,19.52,36.2,5.66,0,0.47,0.15,0,0,0,0.27 Roman:R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,7.27,26.59,13.06,25.7,1.65,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 Roman:R113_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,4.01,26.05,11.36,28.27,3.92,0,0,0,0.46,0.2,0,0 Roman:R114_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.19,6.78,18.04,19.02,29.56,7.35,0.58,0.77,0,0.7,0,0,0 Roman:R123_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,12.03,4.13,19.45,20.54,37.07,3.99,0,0.97,0,0,1.83,0,0 Roman:R128_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,2.63,8.5,21.08,27.13,34.24,5.03,0,0,0,0.84,0.55,0,0 Roman:R1544_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.53,4.64,21.39,18.62,31.87,3.82,1.51,0,0.43,0.3,0.89,0,0 Roman:R1545_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.35,3.4,22.3,23.93,31.78,7.44,0.06,0,0,0,0.73,0,0 Roman:R1551_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.31,0,12.6,36.12,34.89,8.22,2.15,0.72,0,0,0,0,0 Roman:R39_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,9.38,2.57,24.97,19.78,34.82,5.66,0,1.74,0.29,0.78,0,0,0 Roman:R43_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.19,0,22.2,21.83,39.45,3.15,0.45,0,0,0.08,0.65,0,0 Roman:R44_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.45,0,23.48,18.04,38.86,5.16,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 Roman:R51_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,20.47,1.28,20.11,15.05,34.89,5.56,0,0.17,0,0.59,1.88,0,0 Roman:R66_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,7.81,1.07,23.57,24.26,37.48,4.96,0,0,0,0,0.85,0,0 Roman:R69_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.48,4.41,24.55,22.98,33.7,0.54,0,0.59,0,0.5,0.25,0,0 Roman:R71_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,6.09,0.06,20.33,24.54,44.64,3.4,0,0,0,0,0.94,0,0 Roman:R72_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.24,0,22.92,19.04,41.2,5.12,0,0,0.57,0,0.91,0,0 Roman:R78_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.76,2.77,22.82,22.14,43.72,2.03,0,0.1,0,0.27,0.39,0,0 Roman:R81_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.54,2.43,22.21,17.14,39.17,4.79,1.98,0,0,0,0.74,0,0 Roman:R836_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.9,4.35,25.43,19.62,29.98,1.61,0,0,0,0.28,0.83,0,0 Slavic:I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_ybp,30.89,37.94,12.04,8.95,5.72,0.86,0,0,2.09,0.47,0.11,0.93,0 Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_1356_ybp,30.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0,1.56,0.94,0,0.46,0 Slavic:Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,45.83,13.05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64,0.42,0 Slavic:AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp,29.17,40.22,11.71,8.24,7.15,0.06,1.56,0,0.48,0.97,0.27,0,0.17 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK274,30.81,34.11,13.89,9.49,6.21,0.48,2.68,0.16,0.33,1.06,0,0,0.79 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26,8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9.89,5.02,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK339,30.19,38.31,4.19,7.6,13.21,0,0,0,0,0,2.03,2.99,1.47 Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.53,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62 Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63,3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0 Slavic:Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19,34.33,39.57,9.56,6.08,4.86,0,0,1.29,0.94,1.44,0.09,0,1.85 Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.1,42.86,8.37,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.6,0,1.68,2.01,0,0,0.56 Slavic:Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14.97,2.7,4.74,0.3,0.73,2.49,0,0.34,1.21,1.4,0 Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29 Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43.78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0.87

I get fantastic fit!

Target: Stearsolina
Distance: 1.7975% / 1.79751284

77.8 Slavic
15.2 Iron_age_Balkan
7.0 Roman

This is first time I get such low fit without need for Germanic and Caucasus samples.

Target: i
Distance: 1.2761% / 1.27613503
61.6 Slavic
23.4 Iron_age_Balkan
15.0 Roman
10-11-2020, 06:35 PM
Jana

Works great, fit is extraordinary. I'm suprised how much Slavic I score.
10-11-2020, 06:56 PM
Benyzero

Target: Benyzero
Distance: 1.5171% / 1.51712902
66.6 Slavic
33.4 Iron_age_Balkan

Distance to: Benyzero
8.45059761 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK274
10.61409911 Slavic:I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_yb p
11.51487299 Slavic:AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp
12.80371821 Slavic:Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19
12.91711655 Iron_age_Balkan:I2165_Bulgaria_EBA_4908_ybp
14.44778184 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340
14.96243296 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK339
15.28201885 Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272
15.88653518 Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541
16.66429416 Slavic:Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp
16.78005661 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287
16.85002374 Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542
16.87636513 Slavic:Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454
18.56863754 Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_135 6_ybp
20.94810970 Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212
22.14655052 Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159
22.18432104 Iron_age_Balkan:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
23.27392103 Iron_age_Balkan:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp
23.35697968 Iron_age_Balkan:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp
27.26609983 Iron_age_Balkan:I2520_Bulgaria_EBA_5132_ybp
30.52805267 Iron_age_Balkan:I2176_Bulgaria_EBA_published_5132_ ybp
31.02815979 Roman:R1549_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
32.08048160 Roman:R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
33.25279086 Iron_age_Balkan:Bul6_Bulgaria_Beli_Breyag_EBA_4450 _ybp
33.68105996 Iron_age_Balkan:I2175_Bulgaria_EBA_5122_ybp
10-11-2020, 07:17 PM
andre

It’s quite impossible that i have ~55% slavic

Target: Andre
Distance: 0.8027% / 0.80274403
56.2 Slavic
27.0 Roman
16.8 Iron_age_Balkan
10-11-2020, 07:26 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by andre

It’s quite impossible that i have ~55% slavic

Target: Andre
Distance: 0.8027% / 0.80274403
56.2 Slavic
27.0 Roman
16.8 Iron_age_Balkan

maybe some of the Slav-Vikings aren't pure Slavs and have some southern admixture.

i would like to hear the opinion of other members.
10-16-2020, 09:05 PM
vbnetkhio

after taking another look at the samples, i think only these represent proper proto-Slavs.
the more northern plotting Romanians, Serbs and Bosniaks are pulled strongly towards these exact samples:

Code:

Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63,3.49,4.19,0.00,2.08,0.00,0.00,1.86,0.48,1.27,0.00 Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9.89,5.02,8.09,0.00,3.75,0.00,0.44,0.10,0.00,1.12,0.00 Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26,8.62,7.09,7.54,0.00,1.50,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0.00 Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.10,42.86,8.37,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.60,0.00,1.68,2.01,0.00,0.00,0.56 Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14.97,2.70,4.74,0.30,0.73,2.49,0.00,0.34,1.21,1.40,0.00 Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,45.83,13.05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0.00,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64,0.42,0.00 Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.70,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0.00,1.18,0.56,0.79,0.00,1.29 Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43.78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0.00,0.00,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0.87 Proto-Slav,25.98,45.03,10.62,5.35,7.04,0.68,1.41,0.41,1.08,0.88,0.54,0.64,0.34

these are early West and Pannonian Slavs, who probably picked up a western influence immediately after leaving the proto-Slavic homeland.

Code:

I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_ybp,30.89,37.94,12.04,8.95,5.72,0.86,0.00,0.00,2.09,0.47,0.11,0.93,0.00 AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp,29.17,40.22,11.71,8.24,7.15,0.06,1.56,0.00,0.48,0.97,0.27,0.00,0.17 AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_1356_ybp,30.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0.00,1.56,0.94,0.00,0.46,0.00 Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.53,5.54,1.59,0.00,1.30,0.00,1.34,0.00,0.13,1.42,0.62 Early_West_Slav,29.99,43.62,11.08,6.77,4.37,0.33,0.85,0.00,1.37,0.60,0.13,0.70,0.20

this one is an outlier because of the high east med.
Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK339,30.19,38.31,4.19,7.60 ,13.21,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,2.03,2.99,1.47

this one is probably an East Slavic + Scandinavian mix.
Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19,34.33,39.57,9.56,6.08,4. 86,0.00,0.00,1.29,0.94,1.44,0.09,0.00,1.85

edit:
i think this one is also too southern plotting to be an early Slav.
Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK274,30.81,34.11,13.89,9 .49,6.21,0.48,2.68,0.16,0.33,1.06,0.00,0.00,0.79
10-16-2020, 09:18 PM
Jana

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

after taking another look at the samples, i think only these represent proper proto-Slavs.
the more northern plotting Romanians, Serbs and Bosniaks are pulled strongly towards these exact samples:

Code:

Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63,3.49,4.19,0.00,2.08,0.00,0.00,1.86,0.48,1.27,0.00 Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9.89,5.02,8.09,0.00,3.75,0.00,0.44,0.10,0.00,1.12,0.00 Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26,8.62,7.09,7.54,0.00,1.50,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0.00 Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.10,42.86,8.37,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.60,0.00,1.68,2.01,0.00,0.00,0.56 Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14.97,2.70,4.74,0.30,0.73,2.49,0.00,0.34,1.21,1.40,0.00 Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,45.83,13.05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0.00,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64,0.42,0.00 Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.70,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0.00,1.18,0.56,0.79,0.00,1.29 Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43.78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0.00,0.00,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0.87 Proto-Slav,25.98,45.03,10.62,5.35,7.04,0.68,1.41,0.41,1.08,0.88,0.54,0.64,0.34

these are early West and Pannonian Slavs, who probably picked up a western influence immediately after leaving the proto-Slavic homeland.

Code:

I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_ybp,30.89,37.94,12.04,8.95,5.72,0.86,0.00,0.00,2.09,0.47,0.11,0.93,0.00 AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp,29.17,40.22,11.71,8.24,7.15,0.06,1.56,0.00,0.48,0.97,0.27,0.00,0.17 AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_1356_ybp,30.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0.00,1.56,0.94,0.00,0.46,0.00 Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.53,5.54,1.59,0.00,1.30,0.00,1.34,0.00,0.13,1.42,0.62 Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK274,30.81,34.11,13.89,9.49,6.21,0.48,2.68,0.16,0.33,1.06,0.00,0.00,0.79 Early_West_Slav,30.16,41.71,11.64,7.31,4.74,0.36,1.22,0.03,1.16,0.69,0.10,0.56,0.32

this one is an outlier because of the high east med.
Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK339,30.19,38.31,4.19,7.60 ,13.21,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,2.03,2.99,1.47

this one is probably an East Slavic + Scandinavian mix.
Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19,34.33,39.57,9.56,6.08,4. 86,0.00,0.00,1.29,0.94,1.44,0.09,0.00,1.85

Isn't AV2 strongly northeastern?
10-16-2020, 09:20 PM
Graham

https://i.ibb.co/1Gw0r3M/image.png

Above 95% polish like on the study, if you want to play about with these folk.

Code:

Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK474,32.29,45.57,8.99,1.99,5.67,1.55,0.49,0,0,0.93,1.82,0,0.71 Viking_Russia_Kurevanikha_VK160,24.63,54.16,7.49,3.96,2.47,1.99,1.17,1.75,0.31,0.67,0,0.16,1.25 Viking_Denmark_Funen_VK139,26.2,50.51,9.25,1,7.04,0.33,0.97,0,0,1.9,0.62,0,2.18 Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29
10-16-2020, 09:26 PM
Nurzat

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

Slavs among Vikings

this Rusnak as well (on G25 PC1-PC2 plot) :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurzat

yes, I see three individual samples with same PC1 and PC2 coordinates as me (so we all 4 plot in the same point in the 2D graph) and I want to understand how relevant is it:

Sample,PC1,PC2
ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian:SBT-A-1,0.125205,0.128972
SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_stg026,0.125205,0.12897 2
UKR_Chernyakhiv_Shyshaky:MJ37,0.125205,0.128972
Carpathian_Rusnak-West_Moldovan:Nurzat,0.125205,0.128972
10-16-2020, 09:28 PM
Jana

With only pure proto-Slavic samples my Slavic goes down significantly and I get lot of Germanic :P

Target: Stearsolina
Distance: 2.3966% / 2.39663250

49.0 Slavic
23.8 Germanic
17.0 Iron_age_Balkan
10.2 Roman
10-16-2020, 09:33 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Isn't AV2 strongly northeastern?

i think she's a north shifted proto-Slav + Germanic, so both the NA and Baltic are high. In k13 she is the closest to Poles.
10-16-2020, 09:42 PM
Dušan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

With only pure proto-Slavic samples my Slavic goes down significantly and I get lot of Germanic :P

Target: Stearsolina
Distance: 2.3966% / 2.39663250

49.0 Slavic
23.8 Germanic
17.0 Iron_age_Balkan
10.2 Roman

No change for me

Target: Dušan
Distance: 1.4081% / 1.40806163
68.6 Slavic
19.2 Roman
12.2 Iron_age_Balkan
10-16-2020, 09:48 PM
Graham

VK451 in the supplementary notes.

Quote:

Lutsk city, Volyn oblast (region), Ukraine
Relevance for the Vikings: Rurik dynasty
Izjaslav Ingvarevych, «Izjaslav, son of Ingvar» (in Ukrainian and Russian languages endings -ovych,
-evych after the name have a meaning «son of») was 13th 1270 century prince of Dorogobuzh, Principality
of Volhynia/Galicia, aged 30-40 according to anthropologist analysis.

Sources of information: Skull was found in 1989 in a tomb on the territory of Lutsk castle (Figs. S1.4 and S1.5).
Archeology report is located in scientific archive of Lutsk State historical and cultural reserve
(Научный архив Государственного историко-культурного заповедника города Луцк).
Archive number: 203, 51 pages. Coordinates: WGS84: 50° 44′ 20″ N, 25° 19′ 23″ E; 50.738889°, 25.323056°
10-16-2020, 10:07 PM
Nurzat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Works great, fit is extraordinary. I'm suprised how much Slavic I score.

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.4715% / 1.47153493
70.0 Slavic
21.8 Roman
8.2 Iron_age_Balkan

when I remove Vikings:

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.8186% / 1.81861482
68.4 Slavic
19.0 Iron_age_Balkan
12.6 Roman
10-16-2020, 10:18 PM
Jana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurzat

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.4715% / 1.47153493
70.0 Slavic
21.8 Roman
8.2 Iron_age_Balkan

when I remove Vikings:

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.8186% / 1.81861482
68.4 Slavic
19.0 Iron_age_Balkan
12.6 Roman

You need to use samples which Vbn marked as proto-Slavic in page before.
10-16-2020, 10:24 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

VK451 in the supplementary notes.

any info about these?

Viking_Denmark_Funen_VK139
Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340
Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287

Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454
Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK474

Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272
Viking_Russia_Kurevanikha_VK160
Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159
10-16-2020, 10:33 PM
Leto

So those are an actual knyaz's results, am I right? Pretty interesting. Can I get his Dodecad K12b?
10-16-2020, 11:18 PM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

So those are an actual knyaz's results, am I right? Pretty interesting. Can I get his Dodecad K12b?

ask Lucas, he has the raw data.
Gleb Svyatoslavich was also tested. maybe some other noblemen too.
10-17-2020, 12:23 AM
Peterski

Viking Age Slavs were not really "Early Slavs", because they lived roughly 500 years later than Early Slavs.

By the time of the Viking Age, Slavs were already long divided into West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs.

I think that these samples were ethnic Slavs:
(the ones marked with yellow and orange colors)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...lavic-averages

https://i.imgur.com/tOZp54H.png

^^^
As well as several others, including these:

VK212
VK287
VK453
VK309

Sandomierz, Cracow and Czersk VK samples were also Slavic.

And several East Slavic samples - such as VK160 and VK541.

====

I would make separate averages for East Slavs, West Slavs, etc. for this time period already. As I did in my thread.
10-17-2020, 12:27 AM
Peterski

BTW, samples VK274 and VK254 resemble modern South Slavs. What do you think about them vbnetkhio?
10-17-2020, 08:05 AM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterski

Viking Age Slavs were not really "Early Slavs", because they lived roughly 500 years later than Early Slavs.

By the time of the Viking Age, Slavs were already long divided into West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs.

I think that these samples were ethnic Slavs:
(the ones marked with yellow and orange colors)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...lavic-averages

https://i.imgur.com/tOZp54H.png

^^^
As well as several others, including these:

VK212
VK287
VK453
VK309

Sandomierz, Cracow and Czersk VK samples were also Slavic.

And several East Slavic samples - such as VK160 and VK541.

====

I would make separate averages for East Slavs, West Slavs, etc. for this time period already. As I did in my thread.

could the ones with 90+% Polish-like be Balts and not Slavs?
10-17-2020, 08:47 AM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterski

BTW, samples VK274 and VK254 resemble modern South Slavs. What do you think about them vbnetkhio?

probably a case of those Italian admixed Vikings returning to Scandinavia. add some Slavic to the mix, and you get south Slavs.
10-17-2020, 09:20 AM
Peterski

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

could the ones with 90+% Polish-like be Balts and not Slavs?

Rather not, they score like Slavs in calculators. Balts are the ones with 60-70% Polish-like and 30-40% Finnish-like.

For example, check what VK478 and VK475 get in Similitude Map:

https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

VK478
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 2.70
Central_African 0
Central_Euro 2.73
East_African 0
East_Asian 0
East_Balkan 0.56
East_Central_Asian 0
East_Central_Euro 35.17
East_Med 0
Eastern_Euro 16.35
Fennoscandian 27.21
French 0
Iberian 0
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0
Malayan 0
Near_Eastern 0
North_African 0
North_Atlantic 7.46
North_Caucasian 0
North_Sea 7.15
Northeast_African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South_Asian 0
South_Central_Asian 0
South_Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 0.67
West_African 0
West_Caucasian 0
West_Med 0

VK475
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 1.32
Central_African 0
Central_Euro 4.40
East_African 0
East_Asian 0
East_Balkan 4.24
East_Central_Asian 0
East_Central_Euro 33.75
East_Med 0
Eastern_Euro 20.96
Fennoscandian 16.89
French 3.16
Iberian 0
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0
Malayan 0
Near_Eastern 0
North_African 0
North_Atlantic 4.82
North_Caucasian 0
North_Sea 10.46
Northeast_African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South_Asian 0
South_Central_Asian 0
South_Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 0
West_African 0
West_Caucasian 0
West_Med 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

probably a case of those Italian admixed Vikings returning to Scandinavia.

But these two samples are from Russia I think?
10-17-2020, 09:26 AM
PaleoEuropean

[QUOTE=vbnetkhio;6933450]Lucas ran 353 Viking samples trough Eurogenes k13 here

based on their similarity to the other Early slavic samples we have, i think these Viking samples from the new study could be of Slavic or mostly Slavic ancestry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wends
10-17-2020, 09:39 AM
vbnetkhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterski

Rather not, they score like Slavs in calculators. Balts are the ones with 60-70% Polish-like and 30-40% Finnish-like.

the 3 most Polish-like samples got cut off from my list on page 1 for being too Baltic in k13 :scratch:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterski

But these two samples are from Russia I think?

one is from Russia, the other from Denmark.

i think we can say only one thing for sure, Lutsk and Chernigov are proto-Slavs.
for all others we need to figure out if they are mixed with the local pre-Slavic population or not.
10-17-2020, 09:47 AM
Peterski

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

the 3 most Polish-like samples got cut off from my list on page 1 for being too Baltic in k13

They score within typical modern Polish range of East_Central_Euro admixture in K36.

And, of course, they score below Lithuanian and Latvian range of East_Central_Euro.

For example:

VK474
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 2.08
Central African 0
Central Euro 9.19
East African 0
East Asian 0
East Balkan 10.16
East Central Asian 0
East Central Euro 23.47
East Med 0
Eastern Euro 15.41
Fennoscandian 14.28
French 6.97
Iberian 4.85
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0
Malayan 0
Near Eastern 0
North African 0
North Atlantic 4.58
North Caucasian 0
North Sea 8.59
Northeast African 0
Oceanian 0.42
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South Asian 0
South Central Asian 0
South Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 0
West African 0
West Caucasian 0
West Med 0
10-17-2020, 09:55 AM
Peterski

Similarity map for VK474 (this one is based on Vadim Verenich's version of raw data):

Very similar to modern Masovians (score 88) or modern Kashubians (score 87), etc.:

https://i.imgur.com/rmlmx9w.png

^^^
Clearly a Slav not a Balt. Probably this applies also to the other two (VK160 & VK139).

You should definitely add these three samples to your Slavic average, they aren't Balts.

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