"35%-55% Ashkenazis are of European Descent"

Interesting study from 2010 on the genetic diversity of Ashkenazi Jews. Food for thought.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0826141331.htm

This not surprising .
Jews got some caracteristics of the population with
witch they have been living for a long time .

I met a Russian jew once and she looked very siberian .

In my book most of European Jews looks quite White cuz they for centuries mixed with the local population and they pick up a lot Euro genes.

What about Sephardic (those from Portugal/Spain mainly)?

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Originally Posted by 2Cool

What about Sephardic (those from Portugal/Spain mainly)?

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Sephardic Jews are not considered white, especially those from North African countries. Their religious and ethnic practices are very different from those of Ashkenazi Jews, as well.

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

Sephardic Jews are not considered white, especially those from North African countries. Their religious and ethnic practices are very different from those of Ashkenazi Jews, as well.

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That's why I specified those from Portugal (look up Belmonte Jews) and Spain. Not those that got expelled into other countries and mixed with the locals.

I don't know about all Ashkenazis, but Russian Jews often look just Russian to me and not very Semitic.

http://www.koffietijd.nl/wp-content/...Job-Cohen.jpeg

http://roimg.nl/bestanden/afbeelding...e-zaken-03.jpg

http://images2-telegraaf.nl/multimed...er_607425i.jpg

Three "Dutch" Jews. Job Cohen (former Labour-leader and former mayor of Amsterdam), Uri Rosenthal (Foreign Minister) and Lodewijk Asscher (Labour wethouder in Amsterdam).

Rimma Varzhapetyan, leader of Jewish community in Armenia,ethnic Jew from Russia (married to an Armenian).

http://www.molokane.org/subbotniki/Armenia/DVD/x14.jpg

Ashkenazi

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The researchers were able to estimate that between 35 and 55 percent of the modern Ashkenazi genome comes from European descent.

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This does not translate to:
"35-55% Ashkenazis are of European descent."

In my experience the typical American Jew is a slightly exotic looking caucasoid like the father of the atomic bomb, J. Robert Oppenheimer.

http://www.atomicarchive.com/History/mp/Images/B12.jpg

I don't think this article is very convincing.
E.g. one example they use is
"A variant of the lactase gene swept through Europe at around the same time as the domestication of cattle several thousand years ago," Bray says. "This result suggests the selection preceded the European establishment of the Ashkenazi Jewish population, which is consistent with the historical record.

I guess "Europe" for them starts at like Switzerland or something.. lol "Swept"
& I wonder how Sicilians would score in this "analysis."

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

Sephardic Jews are not considered white, especially those from North African countries. Their religious and ethnic practices are very different from those of Ashkenazi Jews, as well.

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There are some sephardic jews though who look white even though not all of them are white. Would you agree that perhaps there are some white sephardic jews?

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

Interesting study from 2010 on the genetic diversity of Ashkenazi Jews. Food for thought.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0826141331.htm

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My old best friend, said to be a 100% Polish Jew, actually had both sets of grandparents grow up in the same little Polish Village.....but who never actually met one another while they were still living in Europe! They all met after immigrating here to the US at different times.

Funny thing is, though....her mother's side is pretty fair and Eastern-European looking.....but her dad's side look practically like they just stepped off the boat from Israel or the Middle East.

Odd. Both parents are 100% Polish....although there may be a touch of Russian admixture.

Most Ashkenazis Jews are descendants of Khazars, Semi-European tribe from Pontic steppes so it's not suprising that a lot of Ashkenazis have european appearance or gene pool.

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Originally Posted by ariaka

There are some sephardic jews though who look white even though not all of them are white. Would you agree that perhaps there are some white sephardic jews?

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I'm not going to say it's impossible, though I know a lot of Sephardic Jews, and I think most would probably be offended if they were referred to as white. :p

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Originally Posted by rhiannon

My old best friend, said to be a 100% Polish Jew, actually had both sets of grandparents grow up in the same little Polish Village.....but who never actually met one another while they were still living in Europe! They all met after immigrating here to the US at different times.

Funny thing is, though....her mother's side is pretty fair and Eastern-European looking.....but her dad's side look practically like they just stepped off the boat from Israel or the Middle East.

Odd. Both parents are 100% Polish....although there may be a touch of Russian admixture.

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That's a great story! I'm not surprised about the differences in her parents' appearances. European Jews are very diverse physically.

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

I'm not going to say it's impossible, though I know a lot of Sephardic Jews, and I think most would probably be offended if they were referred to as white. :p

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Are the ones you know , Iberian Sephardites, for example, Sephardites that went to Europe instead of north Africa or the Ottoman empire? In this case I don't see why they should feel less white than the Ashkenazis.

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Originally Posted by 2Cool

That's why I specified those from Portugal (look up Belmonte Jews) and Spain. Not those that got expelled into other countries and mixed with the locals.

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Ashkenazis would not consider them to be white. Sephardic history and customs are just too different. The Belmontes are descended from Sephardim.

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

Sephardic Jews are not considered white, especially those from North African countries. Their religious and ethnic practices are very different from those of Ashkenazi Jews, as well.

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Why aren't the Sephardic Jews considered white?

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Originally Posted by memobekes

Why aren't the Sephardic Jews considered white?

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Because they are descended from North Africans and Middle Eastern people. The Sephardim from Spain and Portugal can be up for debate, but it's a stretch. Here's a good resource on the differences between Ashkenazim and Sephardim:

http://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.htm

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

Because they are descended from North Africans and Middle Eastern people. The Sephardim from Spain and Portugal can be up for debate, but it's a stretch. Here's a good resource on the differences between Ashkenazim and Sephardim:

http://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.htm

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Genetic differences between Sephardim and Ashkenazic Jews are minimal. They usually form a cluster on genetic maps.

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

This does not translate to:
"35-55% Ashkenazis are of European descent."

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Exactly. The typical Jew may technically have some European blood, but that does not mean they should be considered White, dammit. They're distinct and separate.

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Originally Posted by Defiance

Exactly. The typical Jew may technically have some European blood, but that does not mean they should be considered White, dammit. They're distinct and separate.

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How would you define white? There are a variety of white ethnic groups and each white ethnic group is different than the other sorts of whites. For example if you were to analyze the DNA of people who were ethnically Finnish you would find they are unique from other whites. Or if you were to analyze the DNA of people who were among the Celtic peoples of the British Isles you would find they were ethnically different than other whites.

So the fact that jews are genetically unique from other whites doesn't make them non-white because other ethnicities of white people are genetically unique from other white peoples.

Or if you are claiming jews are not white because some of them are pro-diversity well there are some white gentiles who are pro-diversity too. And not all jews are pro-diversity.

I just wonder what your criteria is for judging them not to be white.

If you look at the history of Europe it consists of white people slaughtering each other for thousands of years. Does the fact that English people went to war against many sorts of European nations mean that English people are not white? During the course of history many white nations have competed against each other in various ways and yet at the end of it all everyone agrees that the various European nations are white.

And so even if you believe that jewish people are a hostile nation, and personally I do not think jews as a whole are intrinsically hostile(though some of them may be hostile just as people of other white nationalities may be hostile),.... but even if that is what you think.... that should not disqualify jews from being white.

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Originally Posted by Defiance

Exactly. The typical Jew may technically have some European blood, but that does not mean they should be considered White, dammit. They're distinct and separate.

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Did you know that Icelandic people are more distinct genetically from the rest of Europeans than most Ashkenazi Jews?

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Originally Posted by ariaka

I just wonder what your criteria is for judging them not to be white.

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Aside from their generally light skin, there's really not much "White" or "European" about them. They are Middle Eastern aliens.

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

Did you know that Icelandic people are more distinct genetically from the rest of Europeans than most Ashkenazi Jews?

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If that's true (and let's face it, it probably isn't), it's not necessarily relevant.

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Originally Posted by Defiance

Aside from their generally light skin, there's really not much "White" or "European" about them. They are Middle Eastern aliens.

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http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...jV3hHEd8uT7cKA

Above is a picture of jewish model Bar Rafaeli. She looks white to me. Maybe some jews aren't white but there certainly are some jews that are white. I am not going to guess what percentage are white but many of the ones I have seen in America are white.

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Originally Posted by Clementina

I don't know about all Ashkenazis, but Russian Jews often look just Russian to me and not very Semitic.

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The oligarchs!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...odorkovsky.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ton_Nossik.JPG
http://blog.kievukraine.info/uploade...782-732902.jpg
http://sptimes.ru/archive/img/652/14738.jpg
They look quite Jewish to me.

Esti Ginzburg.

http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...g_reebok3g.jpg

Romola Garai.

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/t...omolagarai.jpg

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Originally Posted by Defiance

Aside from their generally light skin, there's really not much "White" or "European" about them. They are Middle Eastern aliens.


If that's true (and let's face it, it probably isn't), it's not necessarily relevant.

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Icelandic genetic drift.

http://www.genomeweb.com/study-finds...c-mitochondria

It's relevant because Icelanders are still white Europeans regardless of their genetic uniqueness.

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The researchers were able to estimate that between 35 and 55 percent of the modern Ashkenazi genome comes from European descent.

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Assuming the remainder of their ancestry is all levantine, a population closely related to the European people, I see no reason why they cannot be considered White. Although it's already my belief Levantines (especially the Christian Lebanese) fall within the category of White anyway. Assuming I'm correct, Ashkenazis are 100% white and can be considered nothing else.

Following some people's logic, southern Italians & Greeks should also be excluded from the 'white race' as well. Go figure Ashkenazis cluster closer to S. Italians & Greeks above all people. Phenotypically they blend right in as well, which is why they are so often mistaken for each other.

It's because Ashkenazis, South Italians, and Greeks are all a mixture of Paleolithic European and Neolithic, Levantine type genes.

Avigdor Lieberman:
http://www.imemc.org/attachments/jan..._lieberman.jpg
Do you think he looks Jewish or Russian?

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

This does not translate to:
"35-55% Ashkenazis are of European descent."

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God yes. Reporters shouldn't be allowed near genetic results, they haven't got a clue! :p

I would say, ALL Ashkenazim have some European descent.

Probably about a quarter of their ancestry, on average.

Interestingly, though, I would also bet that this section of ancestry is NOT from a large number of individuals, but a smaller number than you might expect, yet their contribution to the modern genome is greater due to inbreeding and pedigree collapse. A bit of a 'founder effect', indeed.

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Originally Posted by Redar14

Most Ashkenazis Jews are descendants of Khazars, Semi-European tribe from Pontic steppes so it's not suprising that a lot of Ashkenazis have european appearance or gene pool.

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That is utter drivel that has been debunked summarily SO many times that it is not worthy of further attention.

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Originally Posted by Anachronistic

Avigdor Lieberman:
http://www.imemc.org/attachments/jan..._lieberman.jpg
Do you think he looks Jewish or Russian?

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He is a Soviet-born Jew, now an Israeli.

Yet another moronic thread on Kikes. Fucking hell.

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Originally Posted by Osweo

That is utter drivel that has been debunked summarily SO many times that it is not worthy of further attention.

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Most Ashkenazis come from Eastern Europe, especially from Ukraine, Eastern Poland, Hungary and Russia. When Pechenegs had destroyed khazarian khaganate majority of Khazars fled to eastern Poland, Hungary and kievan Rus.

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Originally Posted by Redar14

Most Ashkenazis come from Eastern Europe, especially from Ukraine, Eastern Poland, Hungary and Russia. When Pechenegs had destroyed khazarian khaganate majority of Khazars fled to eastern Poland, Hungary and kievan Rus.

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They speak GERMAN. :yawn:

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Originally Posted by Osweo

They speak GERMAN. :yawn:

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But how recent is that ? That they began to speak German or Jiddish.