Iron Age and Early Medieval Polish DNA coming soon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir Rethel of Retheley

Acually we had some hungarian settlement, especially in southern Poland, but also farther,
sometimes leaving behind place's names containgng ther ethnonim, but not always, BUT 1.
impact of general population was very low, becasue the settlement was very few in number
comparing to general population 2. 99.53% of so called Hungarians is not original, i.e. has
different than N hg, 3. majority of polish N is living rather on the north than on the south,
so lofgically, they came rather from people colse to Esthonians and Livs, than Magyars.

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Ok, I changed a little my opinion on that matter, when I did see it by my own eyes.
It seems, that Hungraian settlement could have an impact in southern Poland anyway.
Interesting, that southern provinces had more Hungolians each one than Hungolia itself :laugh:

Beneath, distribution of Ugrofinians 1) by % of population 2) by number of bearers of
N in thousands, 3) by % of N in a province to whole Ugrofinian population in Poland.

Attachment 65543

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/att...3&d=1499084416

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian

Since it's 900-1000 AD, maybe Magyars? Poland has 10% N1c from somewhere. Probably more Magyar admixture than Hungary.

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Most of Polish N1c are branches typical for East Balts and West Balts. The most common branches of N1c in Poland are "Latvian" Z16975, "West Baltic" (Prussian-Yotvingian) Z16981, and N1c-NY5580 (I'm not sure what exactly it is - I suppose that it is one of typically Lithuanian branches):

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...661#post247661

Polish N1c branches:

http://i.imgur.com/ZSkWSHk.png

Here are my own names of Baltic N1c sub-branches, based on frequencies in populations (Z16975 was the most common branch of N1c in pre-1945 East Prussia, based on FTDNA Projects):

http://i.imgur.com/liyBy1Y.png

http://i.imgur.com/hiLQBnf.jpg

East Prussian R1a subclades (from FTDNA Projects):

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post175421

East Prussian N1c-Z16975 (from FTDNA Projects):

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post176774

kit 193848 Jons Maczullatis born in 1745 in Skaisgirren (Skajzgiry)
kit E13080 Johannes Reihs born in 1800 in Bischofstein (Bisztynek)
kit E2482 Martin Ossowski, born in 1729 in Marienburg (Malbork)
kit N61024 Jurgis Lunczyns born in 1715 in Mosteiten (Slawjanskoje)
kit 343953 Pranciškus Lukoševičius, born in Wisztyniec (Vištytis)
kit B42972 Johann Kuschnereit born in 1800 in Eszerischken
kit N58382 Dargil, born ca. 1344 in Gut Dargels (Dargiele) near Migehnen (Mingajny)

Interestingly there is also one guy with N1b-L732:

kit 217892 Johann Groening born in 1800 in Horsterbusch (Krzewiny)

Here a map with locations of 2 other N1b carriers:

http://semargl.me/haplogroups/maps/171/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dick

The Wielbark culture has traditionally been attributed to the migration of Germanics from Scandinavia to mainland Europe as related in his account of their origin.

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Some of them (especially Kow_45) could also be descended from local population.

GAC culture in Poland was a mix of EEF with WHG (no Steppe) and their Y-DNA was I2:

Globular Amphora Poland Kierzkowo I2440 I2
Globular Amphora Poland Kierzkowo I2403 I2a2
Globular Amphora Poland Kierzkowo I2405 I2a2
Globular Amphora Poland Kierzkowo I2441 I2a2a1b
Globular Amphora Ukraine Ilyatka ILK001 I2a2a1b
Globular Amphora Ukraine Ilyatka ILK002 I2a2a1b2

And individual Kow_45 from Wielbark culture also belonged to I2-L801 haplogroup.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Litvin

Globular Amphora Poland Kierzkowo
Globular Amphora Ukraine Ilyatka

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But these are two extremes.
Interesting, what was in the center.
Maybe something different - and replaced
population lived on the outskirts?

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Originally Posted by Cniva

Not Magyars, that's the stupidest thing I heard hehe

Niemsza look like some Baltic tribe, Yotvingians or something.

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Uh, that sample is a closest match to Finno-Ugrics in NW Russia, not Balts, likely meaning it had Mongoloid admixture. Balts(Lithuanians, Latvians) don't have Mongoloid admixture. Niemcza is also in southern Poland, if it was a group like Curonians(who are said to be Estonians rather than Latvians), how did they get so far south? Balts didn't exactly conquer a lot unlike Slavs or Germanics during that period.

More likely Magyars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian

Uh, that sample is a closest match to Finno-Ugrics in NW Russia, not Balts, likely meaning it had Mongoloid admixture. Balts(Lithuanians, Latvians) don't have Mongoloid admixture. Niemcza is also in southern Poland, if it was a group like Curonians(who are said to be Estonians rather than Latvians), how did they get so far south? Balts didn't exactly conquer a lot unlike Slavs or Germanics during that period.

More likely Magyars.

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You're not entirely correct, this dendogramm is based on Eurogenes K36, in which Niemcza gets high Fennoscandian, due to which it clusters with North-Russians.

While Fennoscandian is almost pure Finnish component North Euros without any mongoloid admix get it in high amounts like Dutch, North-Germans, Danes get 10%+.

Also should be noted that this are very early results distanses to closest populations are 30+ and result are very wild, they do barely deffirinate in terms of big races, hardly any usefull for regional sub-divisions.

Tl;DR - result are shit right now, we should wait for better read genomes.

K36 "Fennoscandian" component is also present among Balts:

http://k36.physical-anthropology.inf...rogenesk36.jpg

http://k36.physical-anthropology.inf...rogenesk36.jpg

Yes, Fennosciandian isn't Mongoloid at all. In K36 Siberian is North Mongoloid and Niemcza didn't have any.

Sample Niemcza_13 from Early Medieval Poland belongs to I2a-Din:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post255823

So far none of Iron Age Polish samples belongs to I2a-Din or R1a.

This is now one of the oldest I2a-Din samples in ancient DNA, right?:

Niemcza_13 (900-1000 AD), I2a1b2-L621+, mtDNA J1c3e1

Location of Niemcza (to the west of Krosno):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Niemcza

http://chrzest966.pl/wp-content/uplo...Kocka-ryc1.bmp

niem18 J-Z6055: Z27899/Y7016+ or J-SK1323: FGC58046- FGC58078+ (low probability)

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M172

It is J2a > m410 > L26 > z6064 > z6055
or J2a > m410 > L26 > PF5087 > PF5160 > PF5197 > SK1323

M410 is Georgia, Ossetia subclade. So considering Osetia another Sarmatian trace.