White Serb/Sorb gedmatch result!

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

And there is extremely little evidence (few quotations taken out of context) of Bosnia being Serb land ethnically.
Neither are there any relevant archeological remains of early Serbs in pre-Ottoman Bosnia.
My guess is they were occupying southeastern Bosnia which is part of their early core and the rest is debatable.

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I'm not an expert but my guess is that Bosniakdom was a post Ottoman development.

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Originally Posted by Leto

I'm not an expert but my guess is that Bosniakdom was a post Ottoman development.

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Boşnak is what the Ottomans called all Bosnians, regardless of religion. From a historic standpoint, it's basically synonymous with the modern term Bosnian (or Bosanac).

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Originally Posted by Ford

Boşnak is what the Ottomans called all Bosnians, regardless of religion. From a historic standpoint, it's basically synonymous with the modern term Bosnian.

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Yes, and Bosniaks as ethnicity of muslim inhabitants of Bosnia and Herzegovina is political creatiaon of Muhamed Filipović and Alija Izetbegović in 1990s.

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Originally Posted by Leto

I'm not an expert but my guess is that Bosniakdom was a post Ottoman development.

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Yes, but there was medieval Bosnian identity too.

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

Bosnian medieval rulers recogized themselves and own subjects inhabitants of Bosnia as Serbs. You can see
example on my signature.

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Don't bother, Croats can't do history because they can't read it
So they just dismiss it as non-existent
See no evil, hear no evil
:haha:
She probably doesn't even know that "White" Serbs and "White" Croats stands for "West" Serbs and "West" Croats, implying that they are not the source population, but a splitting off population. And yet, it's the "southern" serbs and croats that merely refer to themselves as...Serbs and Croats. Maybe because they were the original group from the east all along?

The notion that a small offshoot group from the north could just barge in and unite a bunch of disparate tribes spanning hundreds of kilometers because they had some unexplained authority is ludicrous

And yet, "White Croatia" doesn't exist at all today in the north, and "White Serbia" is reduced to a few tens of thousands of people.

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

Bosnian medieval rulers recogized themselves and own subjects inhabitants of Bosnia as Serbs. You can see
example on my signature.

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Not really. It's taken out of context and they have been ruling Serbian lands during certain amount of time, too.

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Yes, but there was medieval Bosnian identity too.

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Then why could they not have reverted to the pre Ottoman understanding of themselves once the occupation was over? Especially in the 20th century. Why keep clinging to Islam as a cultural marker?

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

Yes, and Bosniaks as ethnicity of muslim inhabitants of Bosnia and Herzegovina is political creatiaon of Muhamed Filipović and Alija Izetbegović in 1990s.

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But the concept of Bosniaks being a distinct ethnicity was first brought up and promoted by Austria-Hungary (specifically Bani Kallay) to divide South Slavs. It may not have picked up momentum until later though.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Sm...osniak&f=false

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Originally Posted by Voight

Don't bother, Croats can't do history because they can't read it
So they just dismiss it as non-existent
See no evil, hear no evil
:haha:
She probably doesn't even know that "White" Serbs and "White" Croats stands for "West" Serbs and "West" Croats, implying that they are not the source population, but a splitting off population. And yet, it's the "southern" serbs and croats that merely refer to themselves as...Serbs and Croats. Maybe because they were the original group from the east all along?

The notion that a small offshoot group from the north could just barge in and unite a bunch of disparate tribes spanning hundreds of kilometers is ludicrous

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Sarmatian theory? Irrelevant if true, we have little to none Iranic genetics.

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

yes. but it became way less important somewhere in the early medieval times. maybe when feudalism began. and then in the 19th century we started being "tribal" again.

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I don't think it became less important during feudal times. It was always a relatively plastic identity until recently.