he is corded ware and r1b.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpFork
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he is corded ware and r1b.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpFork
the constance and st gallen samples are of early bronze age samples of mixed bb and eef stock, not celts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
Who exactly do you think the Celts of Switzerland were descended from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Raizen
I have seen images of prerroman people in Spain and sometimes they write proto-celtic and other pre-celtic. In the first case we could think about the core of "celtic" that later expanded to the surrounded areas. In the 2º case we would be talking about people living there previously to the celts and adapting to the culture. There are some theories that say that celts came from the West.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpFork
https://i.imgur.com/P7Qqe8e.png
Anatolia_Barcin_N is the early Neolithic sample from Barcin, Turkey (Pinhasi et al. 2015), which also has the high level of WHG ancestry. Probably these Swiss Iron Age samples are a mixture of this Anatolian group from Turkey and Yamnaya herders from southern Russia.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xG...g=w200-h341-no
Quote:
Felix at GGT is in the process of uploading the genomes from the recent Pinhasi et al. paper. The file for the early Neolithic sample from Barcin, Turkey, is basically ready. I analyzed it with my K8 model and got these results (click on the image to enlarge).
I also ran an Identical-by-State (IBS) affinity test using the Human Origins dataset and around 1800 SNPs. The results broadly back up the K8 analysis, with southern Europeans topping the list.
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2015/0...nome-from.html
Then finally they might let go off their fantasy of being descending from Spaniards?
clearly they weren't descended from the aforementioned populations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
Other Ancient Swiss samples from Furtwaengler et al 2020. These are not as northern shifted.
Scaled
UnscaledCode:Alsace:SX32,0.135449,0.122879,0.053174,0.0646,0.024312,0.025937,0.00799,0.010615,-0.005931,-0.006743,-0.004872,-0.002248,-0.007284,-0.018029,0.020494,0.023468,0.019297,-0.009248,0.003394,0.016508,0.006489,0.002102,-0.005053,-0.004458,0.00467
Basel_Landschaft:Aesch25,0.12862,0.11577,0.059585,0.092055,0.00677,0.032909,0.00517,0.013384,-0.025361,-0.030616,-0.00747,0.003747,-0.004014,-0.017478,0.029723,0.004508,-0.004172,-0.00038,0.001508,-0.00025,0.001123,-0.001855,0.000493,0.014339,-0.000239
Basel_Landschaft:SNPRA63,0.121791,0.126941,0.046763,0.032623,0.05201,0.009761,-0.005405,-0.002308,0.013294,0.016766,0.005196,0.007793,-0.018731,-0.022432,0.018322,0.028109,0.008605,-0.002407,-0.004148,0.002876,-0.003868,0.005317,-0.005176,-0.003374,-0.001916
Basel_Landschaft:SNPRA64,0.121791,0.122879,0.053174,0.050388,0.031083,0.018686,-0.000235,0.003,0.002863,-0.001093,-0.00341,0.004796,-0.008325,-0.021744,0.020901,0.019888,0.008345,-0.004434,0.00176,0.012756,-0.003494,0.004699,-0.012448,0.006386,-0.002155
Constance:MX252,0.124067,0.137096,0.05242,0.039729,0.03693,0.009203,-0.00893,0.000692,0.016157,0.013485,0.001299,0.001948,-0.010406,-0.013487,0.017236,0.011005,-0.007302,0.003801,0.004399,0.003752,0.010482,-0.003215,-0.011955,0.001084,-0.005269
Constance:MX254_2,0.130897,0.136081,0.055437,0.024871,0.041854,0.00251,0.0047,0.006231,0.017794,0.024784,-0.004384,0.007493,-0.016501,-0.014313,0.003122,0.018165,0.014473,0.003547,-0.002388,5e-04,-0.004243,0.011129,0.001479,-0.010483,0.001317
Constance:MX257,0.120652,0.129988,0.046009,0.041344,0.040623,0.003068,-0.00329,0.001615,0.010022,0.014397,-0.006658,0.001499,-0.007582,-0.018304,0.020494,-0.001724,-0.000522,-0.001774,0.015964,-0.002501,-0.001747,-0.001237,-0.00037,-0.007591,0.000359
Constance:MX265,0.122929,0.14319,0.04978,0.026163,0.046778,-0.000558,0.002585,0.002308,0.005727,0.011663,0.012017,-0.005395,0.000595,0.01101,-0.009908,-0.015115,-0.009388,0.007348,0.001634,-0.002126,-0.01148,-0.00643,-0.002465,-0.006025,-0.008023
Constance:MX275,0.126344,0.128972,0.045632,0.040052,0.03139,0.005578,-0.00047,0.002308,0.018407,0.021504,-0.003573,0.007943,-0.026313,-0.014726,0.021444,0.008618,-0.000261,0.006841,0.006411,-0.003627,0.001123,0.012984,0.001356,-0.015183,0.002754
Constance:MX279,0.135449,0.138112,0.053928,0.052649,0.039392,0.013945,-0.002115,-0.004846,0.005931,0.015308,-0.010555,0.008243,-0.006541,-0.014175,0.013165,0.015778,0.011995,0.002154,-0.003017,-0.001,0.002246,0.003462,-0.012571,0.006145,-0.0097
Constance:MX283,0.126344,0.137096,0.057322,0.023579,0.050779,-0.003068,0.001175,0.003,0.020043,0.035172,-0.005521,0.009591,-0.014866,-0.009083,-0.000814,0.022408,0.016689,0.000127,0.004022,-0.002376,-0.001497,0.00643,-0.00456,-0.010242,0.001437
Constance:MX286,0.12862,0.13405,0.049026,0.030685,0.041854,0.005857,-0.00235,0.001846,0.012885,0.020046,-0.005684,0.004046,-0.017839,-0.015551,0.012351,0.01432,0.011083,0.005574,-0.00352,0.001376,0.007362,0.018053,0.007641,-0.011809,-0.000239
Constance:MX288,0.132035,0.132019,0.061094,0.040698,0.048932,0.006972,0.008695,0.00923,0.010635,0.015672,-0.006333,0.003897,-0.013082,-0.007844,0.017508,0.01127,0.005737,-0.0019,0.000503,0.006003,0.015597,0.005193,-0.00037,-0.003856,0.000838
St_Gallen:SX20,0.129758,0.147252,0.055814,0.012274,0.055087,0.009203,0.001175,0.001846,0.013908,0.0277,-0.003897,0.012589,-0.019623,-0.007707,0.005293,-0.008884,-0.017341,-0.003801,0.001006,-0.008504,-0.003494,0.004699,-0.002711,-0.006266,-0.00479
Code:Alsace:SX32,0.0119,0.0121,0.0141,0.02,0.0079,0.0093,0.0034,0.0046,-0.0029,-0.0037,-0.003,-0.0015,-0.0049,-0.0131,0.0151,0.0177,0.0148,-0.0073,0.0027,0.0132,0.0052,0.0017,-0.0041,-0.0037,0.0039
Basel_Landschaft:Aesch25,0.0113,0.0114,0.0158,0.0285,0.0022,0.0118,0.0022,0.0058,-0.0124,-0.0168,-0.0046,0.0025,-0.0027,-0.0127,0.0219,0.0034,-0.0032,-0.0003,0.0012,-0.0002,0.0009,-0.0015,0.0004,0.0119,-0.0002
Basel_Landschaft:SNPRA63,0.0107,0.0125,0.0124,0.0101,0.0169,0.0035,-0.0023,-0.001,0.0065,0.0092,0.0032,0.0052,-0.0126,-0.0163,0.0135,0.0212,0.0066,-0.0019,-0.0033,0.0023,-0.0031,0.0043,-0.0042,-0.0028,-0.0016
Basel_Landschaft:SNPRA64,0.0107,0.0121,0.0141,0.0156,0.0101,0.0067,-0.0001,0.0013,0.0014,-0.0006,-0.0021,0.0032,-0.0056,-0.0158,0.0154,0.015,0.0064,-0.0035,0.0014,0.0102,-0.0028,0.0038,-0.0101,0.0053,-0.0018
Constance:MX252,0.0109,0.0135,0.0139,0.0123,0.012,0.0033,-0.0038,0.0003,0.0079,0.0074,0.0008,0.0013,-0.007,-0.0098,0.0127,0.0083,-0.0056,0.003,0.0035,0.003,0.0084,-0.0026,-0.0097,0.0009,-0.0044
Constance:MX254_2,0.0115,0.0134,0.0147,0.0077,0.0136,0.0009,0.002,0.0027,0.0087,0.0136,-0.0027,0.005,-0.0111,-0.0104,0.0023,0.0137,0.0111,0.0028,-0.0019,0.0004,-0.0034,0.009,0.0012,-0.0087,0.0011
Constance:MX257,0.0106,0.0128,0.0122,0.0128,0.0132,0.0011,-0.0014,0.0007,0.0049,0.0079,-0.0041,0.001,-0.0051,-0.0133,0.0151,-0.0013,-0.0004,-0.0014,0.0127,-0.002,-0.0014,-0.001,-0.0003,-0.0063,0.0003
Constance:MX265,0.0108,0.0141,0.0132,0.0081,0.0152,-0.0002,0.0011,0.001,0.0028,0.0064,0.0074,-0.0036,0.0004,0.008,-0.0073,-0.0114,-0.0072,0.0058,0.0013,-0.0017,-0.0092,-0.0052,-0.002,-0.005,-0.0067
Constance:MX275,0.0111,0.0127,0.0121,0.0124,0.0102,0.002,-0.0002,0.001,0.009,0.0118,-0.0022,0.0053,-0.0177,-0.0107,0.0158,0.0065,-0.0002,0.0054,0.0051,-0.0029,0.0009,0.0105,0.0011,-0.0126,0.0023
Constance:MX279,0.0119,0.0136,0.0143,0.0163,0.0128,0.005,-0.0009,-0.0021,0.0029,0.0084,-0.0065,0.0055,-0.0044,-0.0103,0.0097,0.0119,0.0092,0.0017,-0.0024,-0.0008,0.0018,0.0028,-0.0102,0.0051,-0.0081
Constance:MX283,0.0111,0.0135,0.0152,0.0073,0.0165,-0.0011,0.0005,0.0013,0.0098,0.0193,-0.0034,0.0064,-0.01,-0.0066,-0.0006,0.0169,0.0128,0.0001,0.0032,-0.0019,-0.0012,0.0052,-0.0037,-0.0085,0.0012
Constance:MX286,0.0113,0.0132,0.013,0.0095,0.0136,0.0021,-0.001,0.0008,0.0063,0.011,-0.0035,0.0027,-0.012,-0.0113,0.0091,0.0108,0.0085,0.0044,-0.0028,0.0011,0.0059,0.0146,0.0062,-0.0098,-0.0002
Constance:MX288,0.0116,0.013,0.0162,0.0126,0.0159,0.0025,0.0037,0.004,0.0052,0.0086,-0.0039,0.0026,-0.0088,-0.0057,0.0129,0.0085,0.0044,-0.0015,0.0004,0.0048,0.0125,0.0042,-0.0003,-0.0032,0.0007
St_Gallen:SX20,0.0114,0.0145,0.0148,0.0038,0.0179,0.0033,0.0005,0.0008,0.0068,0.0152,-0.0024,0.0084,-0.0132,-0.0056,0.0039,-0.0067,-0.0133,-0.003,0.0008,-0.0068,-0.0028,0.0038,-0.0022,-0.0052,-0.004
all IndoEuropeans were "northern European"
The only sure is that Celts as a linguocultural group came from the same subgroup with the (genetically equally northern) Italics, instead of coming from the subgroup of Germanics/Balto-slavs
The one from St. Gallen (Eastern Switzerland Germanic Canton) caught my attention as it is quite close to a modern Basque\Iberian.
Code:Target: St_Gallen:SX20
Distance: 2.4222% / 0.02422226
76.0 Basque
12.2 Balto_Slavic_North
8.4 Greek_Albanian
3.4 Northwest_European
Code:Distance to: St_Gallen:SX20
0.03170147 Basque
0.03749692 Belgian_French
0.04818528 Iberian
0.06029530 Northwest_European
0.06161228 North_Sea_Germanic
0.06551486 Balkan
0.06631236 Central_European
0.07260614 Scando_Germanic
0.07360623 Greek_Albanian
0.08978597 Polish_Ukrainian
0.10511355 Sicilian_Maltese
0.11101468 Balto_Slavic_South
0.11142811 Balto_Slavic_North
0.13360026 Finnic
0.13925607 European_Jewish
0.15240539 West_Turkish
0.16469766 Circassian
0.17427253 Levant
0.17453272 Azeri
0.17547694 Armenian_Assyrian
0.18694591 Abkhasian_Georgian
0.19241452 Iranian
0.19742813 Tajik
0.21328751 Udmurt
0.21576389 Northeast_African