Eurogenes Biogeographic Ancestry Project

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jäärapää

At the same time, I have to point out that Northern-Asia/Siberia has a significant Europid component through the Finno-Ugric expansion into Northern-Asia/Siberia, from Europe. This is visible in their genetic heritage even now, thus Finns pull towards North-Asia because of 2 reasons: 1. North-Asians have ancient European/Finno-Ugric ancestry. 2. Some Finns have Saami, thus Samoyedic, thus Siberian ancestry.

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I don't believe in the "Finno-Ugrians from Europe" tale, yet this is not even so important for that question, since languages and migrations are worse to reconstruct than genetic and racial relationships, which can be proven objectively now.

Sibirids (aboriginal Northern Asians) are considered a transitional racial type or even better group, spectrum of variants which have at least Proto-Europoid elements even as far as the North East of Asia actually.

Yet if you compare Lithuanians, which have about ass much "old European" in their genome, it is clear that the Finns are drawn to the Sibiroid populations because of the Mongoloid contribution and not the other way around.

Sure, if you compare the Sibiroids with the Tungus people without Europid admixture (even most Mongols have slight Europoid admixture), they too are closer to Europeans relatively speaking.

But as I said, especially the Lithuanian vs. Finnish comparison makes the case clear and what we see on this graph is primarily the Finnish deviation towards the Sibiroids.

Would be great to have some Lapps and some other Samoyedic than Nganasans as well as Tungid populations for comparison.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agrippa

I don't believe in the "Finno-Ugrians from Europe" tale, yet this is not even so important for that question, since languages and migrations are worse to reconstruct than genetic and racial relationships, which can be proven objectively now.

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The main theory, accepted by every linguist/scientist is that the Uralics/Finno-Ugrians originate from Eastern-Europe, the Volga river region and expanded from there.

If you disagree with that, then you're saying that we came from modern-day southern-Ukraine and are the native Upper Paleolithic people of most of Europe.

Quote:

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Sibirids (aboriginal Northern Asians) are considered a transitional racial type or even better group of variants which have at least Proto-Europoid elements even as far as the North East actually.

Yet if you compare Lithuanians, which have as much or even more "old European" in their genome, it is clear that the Finns are drawn to the Sibiroid populations because of the Mongoloid contribution and not the other way around.

Sure, if you compare the Sibiroids with the Tungus people without Europid admixture (even most Mongols have slight Europoid admixture), they too are closer to Europeans relatively speaking.

But as I said, especially the Lithuanian vs. Finnish comparison makes the case clear and what we see on this graph is primarily the Finnish deviation towards the Sibiroids.

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You are making assumptions by Polako's "one-man" amateurish works. This extremist thinks that the Indo-Europeans are the native people of Finland and predate the Finno-Ugrians.

Every professional genetic research, which is usually done by dozens of scientists, says that the Finns resemble the Upper Paleolithic Europeans the most(genetically and anthropologically).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jäärapää

You are making assumptions by Polako's "one-man" amateurish works. This extremist thinks that the Indo-Europeans are the native people of Finland and predate the Finno-Ugrians.

Every professional genetic research, which is usually done by dozens of scientists, says that the Finns resemble the Upper Paleolithic Europeans the most(genetically and anthropologically).

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In all studies, not just that of Polako - Finns deviate strongly from most other Europeans and so so in a Sibiroid direction.

You might sugarcoat this fact this or that way, but fact is, Finns AND Lithuanians have a very strong "old European component", but Finns have more Sibiroid influences and Lithuanians more Neolithic.

Now even if percentage wise Finns would have very slightly more of the "old European component", Lithuanians would be still closer to them because the Neolithic-Southern component is closer related to "old European" than Sibiroid.

Even a very minor Sibiroid contribution will result in a stronger deviation.

That is like comparing one who is quarter Sicilian with one who is one eighth Negrid. The admixture in the quarter Sicilian might be higher percentage wise, but since the Sicilian component is much closer to North Eastern European than Negrid, the deviation in the Negrid admixed one eighth person will still be larger...

So it is with Finns, principally, which is why Lithuanians are better for being used as an example for "old European", even if saying the Neolithic and later coming Indo-European components are stronger in them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agrippa

In all studies, not just that of Polako - Finns deviate strongly from most other Europeans and so so in a Sibiroid direction.

You might sugarcoat this fact this or that way, but fact is, Finns AND Lithuanians have a very strong "old European component", but Finns have more Sibiroid influences and Lithuanians more Neolithic.

Now even if percentage wise Finns would have very slightly more of the "old European component", Lithuanians would be still closer to them because the Neolithic-Southern component is closer related to "old European" than Sibiroid.

Even a very minor Sibiroid contribution will result in a stronger deviation.

That is like comparing one who is quarter Sicilian with one who is one eighth Negrid. The admixture in the quarter Sicilian might be higher percentage wise, but since the Sicilian component is much closer to North Eastern European than Negrid, the deviation in the Negrid admixed one eighth person will still be larger...

So it is with Finns, principally, which is why Lithuanians are better for being used as an example for "old European", even if saying the Neolithic and later coming Indo-European components are stronger in them.

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Finns went through a bottle-neck at one point, that's why they deviate so much.

Finns are a genetic isolate. It could be said that all other Europeans have Finnish(native Upper Paleolithic) genes but Finns don't have all the genes(Neolithic) found in other Europeans.

Still, Finns are more native European than any other group. For example, Haplogroup U5 is estimated to be the oldest mtDNA haplogroup in Europe and is found in the whole of Europe at a low frequency, but seems to be found in significantly higher levels among Finns, Estonians and the Sami.

Anthropology:
Of modern nationalities, Finns are closest to Cro-Magnons in terms of anthropological measurements.

and now to the crypto-Finnics. Lithuanians are something like Finnic+some Baltic/Indo-European/Neolithic.

Don't be fooled by Polako's researches, that call the Lithuanians just "Baltic". The Finno-Ugric/Finnic genes dominate in the Lithuanians and at best they're a Finnic-Baltic mix, while in reality they're more Finnic than anything else. Of course they have a lot of "old European" genes, if they don't have much Indo-European/Neolithic/Middle-Eastern influence. Lithuanians are the second most FinN1C Europeans. The "old European" background in them is explained by the native Finnic populations that they have assimilated during their expansion into our part of Europe.

Well, the detectable Sibiroid might have been increased by isolation and genetic drift too, but it had to be introduced in any case and was not indigenous nor part of the "old European component".

Polako's new K=4 and K=5 results, this time with Americans included as well.

Me:

K=4
Southern + Western European: 45.4%
North Sea: 39.2%
Baltic: 5.4%
Finnish: 9.9%

K=5
Finnish: 9.7%
Southern + Western European: 39.3%
East European: 12.3%
Southern Baltic: 4.4%
North Sea: 34.2%

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National averages, worked out by Day Tripper on ABF:

K=4 AVERAGES

BY
Southern + Western European: 14.1%
North Sea: 8.9%
Baltic: 75.8%
Finnish: 1.1%

CA
Southern + Western European: 34.3%
North Sea: 57.0%
Baltic: 6.1%
Finnish: 2.6%

DE
Southern + Western European: 30.9%
North Sea: 45.1%
Baltic: 22.4%
Finnish: 1.5%

DK
Southern + Western European: 20.3%
North Sea: 69.3%
Baltic: 3.7%
Finnish: 6.7%

EE
Southern + Western European: 1.9%
North Sea: 21.7%
Baltic: 51.6%
Finnish: 24.9%

ES
Southern + Western European: 90.6%
North Sea: 5.6%
Baltic: 2.2%
Finnish: 1.6%

FI
Southern + Western European: 2.3%
North Sea: 14.3%
Baltic: 6.7%
Finnish: 76.6%

FR
Southern + Western European: 57.6%
North Sea: 33.4%
Baltic: 6.1%
Finnish: 2.9%

HU
Southern + Western European: 40.0%
North Sea: 19.9%
Baltic: 35.5%
Finnish: 4.6%

IE
Southern + Western European: 24.2%
North Sea: 70.6%
Baltic: 4.5%
Finnish: 0.7%

LT
Southern + Western European: 1.8%
North Sea: 13.7%
Baltic: 83.9%
Finnish: 0.6%

NL
Southern + Western European: 19.0%
North Sea: 71.7%
Baltic: 2.6%
Finnish: 6.7%

NO
Southern + Western European: 1.7%
North Sea: 81.3%
Baltic: 7.1%
Finnish: 10.0%

North_Russian
Southern + Western European: 5.2%
North Sea: 2.7%
Baltic: 59.4%
Finnish: 32.7%

PL
Southern + Western European: 18.2%
North Sea: 21.9%
Baltic: 58.5%
Finnish: 1.4%

RU
Southern + Western European: 12.1%
North Sea: 8.6%
Baltic: 63.8%
Finnish: 15.4%

SE
Southern + Western European: 7.0%
North Sea: 63.9%
Baltic: 10.2%
Finnish: 18.9%

UA
Southern + Western European: 17.1%
North Sea: 14.5%
Baltic: 60.5%
Finnish: 7.9%

UK
Southern + Western European: 26.3%
North Sea: 67.9%
Baltic: 3.3%
Finnish: 2.6%

US
Southern + Western European: 31.5%
North Sea: 57.0%
Baltic: 8.2%
Finnish: 3.4%

K=5 AVERAGES

BY
Finnish: 0.5%
Southern + Western European: 9.1%
East European: 37.2%
Southern Baltic: 49.5%
North Sea: 3.6%

CA
Finnish: 3.2%
Southern + Western European: 27.7%
East European: 6.8%
Southern Baltic: 12.5%
North Sea: 49.8%

DE
Finnish: 1.7%
Southern + Western European: 24.3%
East European: 19.3%
Southern Baltic: 16.2%
North Sea: 38.4%

DK
Finnish: 7.7%
Southern + Western European: 15.2%
East European: 9.3%
Southern Baltic: 8.6%
North Sea: 59.2%

EE
Finnish: 26.3%
Southern + Western European: 2.6%
East European: 14.4%
Southern Baltic: 46.2%
North Sea: 10.5%

ES
Finnish: 2.2%
Southern + Western European: 84.2%
East European: 5.3%
Southern Baltic: 3.3%
North Sea: 4.9%

FI
Finnish: 74.4%
Southern + Western European: 2.1%
East European: 6.4%
Southern Baltic: 6.0%
North Sea: 11.2%

FR
Finnish: 2.8%
Southern + Western European: 50.8%
East European: 9.6%
Southern Baltic: 8.4%
North Sea: 28.4%

HU
Finnish: 4.7%
Southern + Western European: 36.2%
East European: 19.0%
Southern Baltic: 26.6%
North Sea: 13.4%

IE
Finnish: 1.1%
Southern + Western European: 15.6%
East European: 11.3%
Southern Baltic: 9.1%
North Sea: 63.0%

LT
Finnish: 0.7%
Southern + Western European: 0.7%
East European: 14.9%
Southern Baltic: 82.2%
North Sea: 1.5%

NL
Finnish: 6.3%
Southern + Western European: 10.3%
East European: 17.6%
Southern Baltic: 0.6%
North Sea: 65.1%

NO
Finnish: 10.1%
Southern + Western European: 0.2%
East European: 17.0%
Southern Baltic: 6.0%
North Sea: 66.8%

North_Russian
Finnish: 23.7%
Southern + Western European: 1.2%
East European: 64.5%
Southern Baltic: 9.2%
North Sea: 1.4%

PL
Finnish: 1.0%
Southern + Western European: 14.0%
East European: 33.5%
Southern Baltic: 36.6%
North Sea: 14.9%

RU
Finnish: 10.2%
Southern + Western European: 7.0%
East European: 49.2%
Southern Baltic: 28.5%
North Sea: 5.1%

SE
Finnish: 19.9%
Southern + Western European: 3.6%
East European: 9.9%
Southern Baltic: 12.8%
North Sea: 53.7%

UA
Finnish: 6.8%
Southern + Western European: 14.2%
East European: 33.2%
Southern Baltic: 38.5%
North Sea: 7.3%

UK
Finnish: 3.7%
Southern + Western European: 19.1%
East European: 7.6%
Southern Baltic: 9.7%
North Sea: 60.0%

US
Finnish: 3.8%
Southern + Western European: 24.8%
East European: 10.4%
Southern Baltic: 11.6%
North Sea: 49.3%

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agrippa

Well, the detectable Sibiroid might have been increased by isolation and genetic drift too, but it had to be introduced in any case and was not indigenous nor part of the "old European component".

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"old European"/Finno-Ugric ancestry among the Siberians has raised the Finns' affinity with them.

+Saami(they have Samoyedic ancestry) ancestry in some rare cases has also raised this affinity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loki

Polako's new K=4 and K=5 results, this time with Americans included as well.

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My K4:

4.7% Southern + Western-European(previous researches have shown that it's just Western-European and I don't have any Southern-European)
22.6% North Sea
48% Baltic/southern-Finnic
25.6% Finnish

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EE
Southern + Western European: 1.9%
North Sea: 21.7%
Baltic: 51.6%
Finnish: 24.9%

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This other Estonian in the research has always scored 0% Western-European, my Western-European score has raised the Estonian average(there are only 2 participants)

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"old European"/Finno-Ugric ancestry among the Siberians has raised the Finns' affinity with them.

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Erm, that doesn't work out and is some sort of distorted logic if looking at the facts.

Because the "old European" is present in other Europeans too, only the specifically Sibiroid component is higher in Finns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agrippa

Erm, that doesn't work out and is some sort of distorted logic if looking at the facts.

Because the "old European" is present in other Europeans too, only the specifically Sibiroid component is higher in Finns.

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As I said, it's rather explained by the European/Finno-Ugric component in the "Sibiroids".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jäärapää

As I said, it's rather explained by the European/Finno-Ugric component in the "Sibiroids".

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And why doesn't that show up as much in the "converted Finno-Ugrians" (your words more or less) like the Lithuanians and being highest among those most Mongoloid influenced even among Finns?

This Sibiroid component is shown in all tests as coming from outside and the opposite is a general Proto-Europoid and Europid component in Sibiroids, which is not even as much related to Finns alone...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agrippa

And why doesn't that show up as much in the "converted Finno-Ugrians" (your words more or less) like the Lithuanians and being highest among those most Mongoloid influenced even among Finns?

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Most Mongoloid influence, lol what a term.

The ancestral population of the Finns was European, but they have acquired considerably more exotic ancestry than the rest of the Northern-Europeans. One thing being the Saami constantly being pushed north and assimilated and the 2nd thing is the Komi(strongly Siberian influenced) influence in eastern-Finland(not certain about, but recently read about), the Komis have many Veps loanwords in their language and vice-versa and traveling by the river ways wasn't hard.

The point being, the ancestral population of the Finns was European. Many factors rise their "exotic ancestry", like bottle-necks, Finno-ugric/Europid ancestry in Siberia, the Saamis and so on.

You have a point about the southern-Finnic populations lacking in this "exotic ancestry", when compared to the Finns. But we didn't have the Saami, nor contacts with people like the Komi.

By the way, you can find "North-Asian" segments even among the Lithuanians. This is caused by a common ancestry with the Siberians, I already told you about the Europid/Finno-Ugric expansion into Asia. Knowing who you are, you should be happy about the Europids dominating non-Europid ethnicities. But instead, you're critical about the genetic mark that the Finno-Ugrians left into Siberia. :p

The chauvinistic ignorance towards the Finns has had a bad result since the 19th century and it was started by the Swedes.

I know the Baltics have the component too, just on a lower level, but funnily this component is stronger everywhere Mongoliform/Mongoloid influences are typologically stronger too, like the higher the Lappid or Eastbaltid racial component is.

I'm pretty sure this Sibiroids were the original bearers of the Finno-Ugric tongue and some were just Indo-Europeanised by Northern Germanics, Balts and Slavs, resulting in this component being present in those also, like the Lappid-Eastbaltid racial element as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agrippa

I know the Baltics have the component too, just on a lower level, but funnily this component is stronger everywhere Mongoliform/Mongoloid influences are typologically stronger too, like the higher the Lappid or Eastbaltid racial component is.

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The Lithuanians are very heavily N1c, are they also very Lappid and East-Baltid? I know that Estonia doesn't have those SNPA East-Baltids, except the Setos, who are the most borealized, as they live in the coldest region of Estonia.

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I'm pretty sure this Sibiroids were the original bearers of the Finno-Ugric tongue and some were just Indo-Europeanised by Northern Germanics, Balts and Slavs, resulting in this component being present in those also, like the Lappid-Eastbaltid racial element as well.

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Do you also dress 19th century style? Or are just your posts from the 19th century?

If there would be anything Indo-European in the Scandinavians and Northern-Europeans in general, then they wouldn't be so... Northern-European

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jäärapää

The Lithuanians are very heavily N1c, are they also very Lappid and East-Baltid?

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In comparison to lets say Germans, French and Danes with a much lower percentage of Eastbaltid-Lappid: Yes.

In comparison to Northern Russians and Northern Finns, they are less influenced...

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I know that Estonia doesn't have those SNPA East-Baltids, except the Setos, who are the most borealized, as they live in the coldest region of Estonia.

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Estonia has it, but like in Balts, it is a smaller segment of the population. It is actually not even dominant in Finns, but just stronger there - like the Sibiroid component being weak as well in the North East of Europe.

Strong it is in the Samoyedic and other people and you know how they look like - actually it is the opposite pattern:

Finno-Ugrians and related people with Uralic influences are overwhelmingly Europid with minor Mongoloid, the Sibiroid people are the exact opposite: Overwhelmingly Mongolid with minor Europoid, with the Europoid being stronger in certain local populations and individuals anyway than Mongolid even in Lappids.

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If there would be anything Indo-European in the Scandinavians and Northern-Europeans in general, then they wouldn't be so... Northern-European

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That's your idea, but the Neolithic and Central-Eastern European influence is clear in them.

The last K-12 analysis if Dienekes was great to prove my point as well, just look at how close NW is to West Asian and the Southern European components:
http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2011/04/...-selected.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agrippa

In comparison to lets say Germans, French and Danes with a much lower percentage of Eastbaltid-Lappid: Yes.

In comparison to Northern Russians and Northern Finns, they are less influenced...

Estonia has it, but like in Balts, it is a smaller segment of the population. It is actually not even dominant in Finns, but just stronger there - like the Sibiroid component being weak as well in the North East of Europe.

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As I said, I haven't seen those SNPA east-baltids here.

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Strong it is in the Samoyedic and other people and you know how they look like - actually it is the opposite pattern:

Finno-Ugrians and related people with Uralic influences are overwhelmingly Europid with minor Mongoloid, the Sibiroid people are the exact opposite: Overwhelmingly Mongolid with minor Europoid, with the Europoid being stronger in certain local populations and individuals anyway than Mongolid even in Lappids.

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Do I have to make hundreds of threads about certain Finno-Ugrians, just like Pallantides did about the Saami, for you to change your biased and chauvinistic opinion?

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That's your idea, but the Neolithic and Central-Eastern European influence is clear in them.

The last K-12 analysis if Dienekes was great to prove my point as well, just look at how close NW is to West Asian and the Southern European components:
http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2011/04/...-selected.html

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But they don't look like South-Eastern Europeans, the most Indo-European Europeans.

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Originally Posted by Jäärapää

As I said, I haven't seen those SNPA east-baltids here.

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If it is easy to spot them by random pictures from the internet, I can just wonder.

Quote:

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Do I have to make hundreds of threads about certain Finno-Ugrians, just like Pallantides did about the Saami, for you to change your biased and chauvinistic opinion?

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What exactly do you mean? I consider Southern Finns to be strongly Nordid and Estonians beilng more Nordoid-Westbaltid and both being rather progressive too. The Eastbaltid is noticeable only as a minority element in most regions and the Mongoloid admixture very low - so low that without selection for Borealised traits which came with it it wouldn't even be noticeable.

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But they don't look like South-Eastern Europeans, the most Indo-European Europeans.

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First of all, who is most Indo-European is disputed and secondly, they are closer to them than to Osteuropids with morphological traits.

My results:

K = 4

Southwest Euro = 21.18%
North Sea = 70.02%
Baltic = 4.4%
Finnuit = 4.4%

K = 5

Finnuit = 6.2%
Southwest Euro = 16.14%
East Euro = 7.1%
S. Baltic = 11.62%
North Sea = 57.8%

My score next to the UK average, North sea scores high.

K = 4

Southern + Western European: 17.3% (26.3%)
North Sea: 79.52% (67.9%)
Baltic: 0% (3.3%)
Finnish: 3.35% (2.6%)
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K = 5

Finnish: 6% (3.7%)
Southern + Western European: 10.2% (19.1%)
East European: 1.77% (7.6%)
Southern Baltic: 11.28% (9.7%)
North Sea: 70.74% (60.0%)

My K=4 results:
Southern+Western European: 27.72%
North Sea: 10.31%
Baltic: 52.33%
Finnish: 9.64%

K=5:
Finnish: 4.55%
Southern+Western European: 20.78%
East European: 46.12%
Southern Baltic: 19.75%
Northwest European: 8.8%

Me(NO2)

K=4

Red(Southern+Western European) 0%
Green(North Sea) 86.67%
Aqua(Baltic) 1.42%
Purple(Finnish) 11.89%

K=5

Red(Finnish) 13.59%
Yellow(Southern+Western European) 0%
Green(East European) 13.18%
Blue(Southern Baltic) 3.18%
Purple(Northwest European) 70.06%

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9717/ne5o.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agrippa

What exactly do you mean? I consider Southern Finns to be strongly Nordid and Estonians beilng more Nordoid-Westbaltid and both being rather progressive too. The Eastbaltid is noticeable only as a minority element in most regions and the Mongoloid admixture very low - so low that without selection for Borealised traits which came with it it wouldn't even be noticeable.

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I wasn't talking about the Finns nor the Estonians. No sane person would think that there's anything mongoloid about the Estonians.

I was talking about the Udmurts for example, they look more Northern-European than most Germans and they have less foreign influence than the Saami does.

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First of all, who is most Indo-European is disputed and secondly, they are closer to them than to Osteuropids with morphological traits.

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Polako, the one-man leader of the Eurogenes Biogeographic Ancestry Project thinks that the Northern-Europeans are the purest Indo-Europeans, but in reality, we have the least Indo-European influence of all the Europeans.

Most probably, the Balkan region and its inhabitants are the purest Indo-Europeans in Europe.

I forgot to post my K=5 before, so here it is:

27.8% Finnish
5% Southern + Western European
8% East-European
47.7% Southern-Baltic/Southern-Finnic
11% North-West European

K4

Southern and Western European: 29.36%
North Sea: 53.23%
Baltic: 12.11%
Finnish: 5.28%

K5

Finnish: 4.52%
Southern and Western Euro: 21.61%
East European: 17.18%
Southern Baltic: 9.40%
Northwest European: 47.27%

Here are the closest countries to me, K4 and K5 respectively, thanks to a guy called Day Tripper:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/att...1&d=1305476818

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/att...1&d=1305476818

Here are mine(thanks to Day Dripper from ABF):

K=4
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4...llantides1.jpg

K=5
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3493/pallantides2.jpg


*the shorter the bar the higher the similarity

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pallantides

Here are mine(thanks to Day Dripper from ABF):

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You seem more Dutch than I am. :p

K=4:

(Roughly)

78.5% North Sea
21.5% Finnish
0% Southern + Western European
0% Baltic

K=5:

(Roughly)

63.3% North-Western European
23.3% Finnish
9.7% Southern Baltic
3.7% Eastern European
0% Southern + Western European

Oh yes, my results from the previous run.

K=4

Southern + western Europe 27 %
North sea 10.3 %
Baltic 15.5 %
Finnish 47.2 %

K=5

Finnish 44.5 %
Southern + western European 23.3 %
East European 20.9 %
Southern Baltic 1.9 %
Northwest European 9.5 %

Again thanks to Day Tripper, here are the similarity bars based on the results of this run. Not very telling of genetic affinity in reality, but fun. Once more smaller the bar, greater the similarity.

https://www.forumbiodiversity.com/at...5&d=1305501969

Very nice "pan-Uralic alliance" going on here with the first four bars due to the "Finnish" scores. :D

https://www.forumbiodiversity.com/at...6&d=1305501969

For the most part very even in this one.

Also guys. Check it out. New results are in, this time without the Finnish cluster.

http://bga101.blogspot.com/2011/05/g...rthern_18.html

My results.

K=4

Southern + Western European 21.2 %
North Sea 25.7 %
Southern Baltic 13.9 %
Northeast European 39.2 %

K=5

North Atlantic 20.5 %
Southern Baltic 5.3 %
Southern + Western European 13.3 %
Northeast European 37.9 %
North Sea 22.9 %

Here's my latest results:

(Roughly)

K=4:

82.6% North Sea
17.4% North-east European
0% Southern Baltic
0% Southern + Western European

K=5:

61.7% North Sea
25.2% North Atlantic
13.1% North-east European
0% Southern Baltic
0% Southern + Western European

My results, NO2


K=4

Southern + Western European 0%
North Sea 87.58%
Southern Baltic 8.70%
Northeast European 3.70%

K=5

North Atlantic 43.67%
Southern Baltic 1.91%
Southern+Western European 0%
Northeast European 7.99%
North Sea 46.41%

My new results, US5:

K=4

Southern + Western European 24.6%
North Sea 64.5%
Southern Baltic 3.6%
Northeast European 7.3%

K=5

North Atlantic 16.4%
Southern Baltic 2.4%
Southern+Western European 18.7%
Northeast European 1.7%
North Sea 60.8%

These maps were posted by Day Tripper at ABF. They show the distribution of the clusters amongst select European nationalities. The first four are at K=4 and the last five are at K=5.

Here are the average scores of project members by nationality. Thanks goes to Day Tripper @ ABF for these too.

K=4 AVERAGES

BY
Southern + Western European: 12.1%
North Sea: 2.3%
Southern Baltic: 74.5%
Northeast European: 11.1%

CA
Southern + Western European: 38.5%
North Sea: 50.3%
Southern Baltic: 9.0%
Northeast European: 2.1%

DE
Southern + Western European: 32.7%
North Sea: 38.8%
Southern Baltic: 23.7%
Northeast European: 4.8%

DK
Southern + Western European: 22.9%
North Sea: 63.0%
Southern Baltic: 7.9%
Northeast European: 6.1%

EE
Southern + Western European: 1.5%
North Sea: 21.6%
Southern Baltic: 55.9%
Northeast European: 21.0%

ES
Southern + Western European: 87.4%
North Sea: 5.6%
Southern Baltic: 3.6%
Northeast European: 3.4%

FI
Southern + Western European: 2.3%
North Sea: 38.5%
Southern Baltic: 9.7%
Northeast European: 49.4%

FR
Southern + Western European: 57.7%
North Sea: 30.0%
Southern Baltic: 7.5%
Northeast European: 4.8%

HU
Southern + Western European: 40.3%
North Sea: 14.6%
Southern Baltic: 33.6%
Northeast European: 11.5%

IE
Southern + Western European: 30.1%
North Sea: 61.1%
Southern Baltic: 6.5%
Northeast European: 2.3%

LT
Southern + Western European: 1.6%
North Sea: 0.8%
Southern Baltic: 95.3%
Northeast European: 2.4%

NL
Southern + Western European: 22.6%
North Sea: 67.1%
Southern Baltic: 4.8%
Northeast European: 5.5%

NO
Southern + Western European: 5.0%
North Sea: 77.5%
Southern Baltic: 7.6%
Northeast European: 10.0%

North_Russian
Southern + Western European: 3.7%
North Sea: 2.9%
Southern Baltic: 31.1%
Northeast European: 62.3%

PL
Southern + Western European: 20.6%
North Sea: 12.7%
Southern Baltic: 54.9%
Northeast European: 11.8%

RU
Southern + Western European: 11.9%
North Sea: 4.3%
Southern Baltic: 51.3%
Northeast European: 32.5%

SE
Southern + Western European: 7.9%
North Sea: 66.2%
Southern Baltic: 10.9%
Northeast European: 15.1%

UA
Southern + Western European: 18.2%
North Sea: 6.7%
Southern Baltic: 54.7%
Northeast European: 20.4%

UK
Southern + Western European: 30.0%
North Sea: 61.5%
Southern Baltic: 5.3%
Northeast European: 3.2%

US
Southern + Western European: 33.7%
North Sea: 52.2%
Southern Baltic: 9.5%
Northeast European: 4.5%

K=5 AVERAGES

BY
North Atlantic: 8.5%
Southern Baltic: 66.3%
Southern + Western European: 9.3%
Northeast European: 12.8%
North Sea: 3.0%

CA
North Atlantic: 49.1%
Southern Baltic: 6.0%
Southern + Western European: 19.7%
Northeast European: 1.9%
North Sea: 23.3%

DE
North Atlantic: 37.3%
Southern Baltic: 18.7%
Southern + Western European: 17.2%
Northeast European: 4.6%
North Sea: 22.1%

DK
North Atlantic: 35.1%
Southern Baltic: 5.6%
Southern + Western European: 12.1%
Northeast European: 3.9%
North Sea: 43.3%

EE
North Atlantic: 1.2%
Southern Baltic: 51.1%
Southern + Western European: 2.4%
Northeast European: 19.5%
North Sea: 25.9%

ES
North Atlantic: 20.4%
Southern Baltic: 1.5%
Southern + Western European: 72.4%
Northeast European: 0.9%
North Sea: 4.9%

FI
North Atlantic: 5.5%
Southern Baltic: 3.6%
Southern + Western European: 1.3%
Northeast European: 43.1%
North Sea: 46.5%

FR
North Atlantic: 31.7%
Southern Baltic: 5.1%
Southern + Western European: 42.7%
Northeast European: 3.0%
North Sea: 17.5%

HU
North Atlantic: 10.1%
Southern Baltic: 29.3%
Southern + Western European: 34.0%
Northeast European: 9.0%
North Sea: 17.7%

IE
North Atlantic: 53.8%
Southern Baltic: 3.1%
Southern + Western European: 11.3%
Northeast European: 2.0%
North Sea: 29.9%

LT
North Atlantic: 0%
Southern Baltic: 93.2%
Southern + Western European: 1.9%
Northeast European: 2.8%
North Sea: 2.1%

NL
North Atlantic: 50.8%
Southern Baltic: 0.2%
Southern + Western European: 4.7%
Northeast European: 5.0%
North Sea: 39.2%

NO
North Atlantic: 40.1%
Southern Baltic: 3.6%
Southern + Western European: 0%
Northeast European: 9.5%
North Sea: 46.8%

North_Russian
North Atlantic: 8.9%
Southern Baltic: 14.3%
Southern + Western European: 3.0%
Northeast European: 66.1%
North Sea: 7.7%

PL
North Atlantic: 18.1%
Southern Baltic: 47.8%
Southern + Western European: 12.7%
Northeast European: 12.2%
North Sea: 9.2%

RU
North Atlantic: 13.2%
Southern Baltic: 37.8%
Southern + Western European: 7.4%
Northeast European: 35.6%
North Sea: 5.9%

SE
North Atlantic: 22.4%
Southern Baltic: 7.4%
Southern + Western European: 4.0%
Northeast European: 11.6%
North Sea: 54.7%

UA
North Atlantic: 16.2%
Southern Baltic: 46.5%
Southern + Western European: 10.3%
Northeast European: 20.5%
North Sea: 6.5%

UK
North Atlantic: 43.3%
Southern Baltic: 2.8%
Southern + Western European: 15.1%
Northeast European: 1.6%
North Sea: 37.3%

US
North Atlantic: 37.3%
Southern Baltic: 6.7%
Southern + Western European: 20.0%
Northeast European: 2.9%
North Sea: 33.2%

My North Sea score is higher than the average of any nation at K=5 and only the Norwegians and Dutch average a higher North Sea score than me at K=4. My scores are way different than the Irish or British, yet that is who I cluster with at 23andMe. My scors are not exactly close to the US averages either. Strange.

My part 3 results (RU19):
K=4
Southern+Western European: 27%
North Sea: 5.5%
Southern Baltic: 35.6%
Northeast European: 31.8%

K=5
North Atlantic: 21.8%
Southern Baltic: 26.2%
Southern+Western European: 18%
Northeast European: 33.7%
North Sea: .4%

My results (I'm US83):

K = 4
Southern + Western European: 34.8374%
North Sea: 58.2542%
Baltic: 3.5321%
Finnish: 3.3762%

K = 5
Finnish: 4.6853%
Southern + Western European: 28.0649%
East European: 0.001%
Southern Baltic: 17.0369%
Northwest European: 50.2119%

k = 5 without Finns:

North Atlantic: 44.0187%
Southern Baltic: 7.444%
Southern + Western European: 21.1778%
Northeast European: 0.001%
Scandinavian: 27.3585%

Southern and Western Euro - 31.73%
North Sea - 48.23%
Southern Baltic - 15.49%
Northeast Euro - 4.54%

----------------------------------------
North Atlantic - 41.96%
Southern Baltic - 12.1%
Southern and Western Euro - 16.56%
Northeast Euro -3.6%
Scandinavian - 25.75%

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlabamaMan

My North Sea score is higher than the average of any nation at K=5 and only the Norwegians and Dutch average a higher North Sea score than me at K=4. My scores are way different than the Irish or British, yet that is who I cluster with at 23andMe. My scors are not exactly close to the US averages either. Strange.

---

Aren't you part Fenno-Scandic?

In any case, on one map I cluster with the French at 23andMe, which, quite frankly, I found very offensive. But this was one of the main things that spurred me on to create this project. It's interesting how a negative can become a positive. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Polako

Aren't you part Fenno-Scandic?

In any case, on one map I cluster with the French at 23andMe, which, quite frankly, I found very offensive. But this was one of the main things that spurred me on to create this project. It's interesting how a negative can become a positive. :D

---

haha oh yes the 23andme clusters! Had forgotten about that completely. Btw, if you don´t mind explaining, how do you tell who you cluster with the most? I am found in the English, French, German and Norwegian clusters. The box closest to my location appears to be English. Should I go by that? Trivial, and hardly very accurate I´m sure, but I´m curious. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Don Draper

haha oh yes the 23andme clusters! Had forgotten about that completely. Btw, if you don´t mind explaining, how do you tell who you cluster with the most? I am found in the English, French, German and Norwegian clusters. The box closest to my location appears to be English. Should I go by that? Trivial, and hardly very accurate I´m sure, but I´m curious. :)

---

There are actually four clusters on that North European map; Irish, Orcadian, generic North Euro, and Austrian.

Most people fall into the generic North Euro. It's not possible to split that up, since there are no seperate clusters created by the samples in that area, like the Germans, English, French, etc. They all overlap, sometimes completely. Also, the box concept makes no sense, since genetic clusters are rarely, if ever, boxes.

I'm RS1 but it doesn't seem my results are up yet.