Eurogenes K13

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

The Dutch and the Danish are the purest Germanics, I think. Maybe Northwestern Germans too.

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Not really regarding the Dutch. The Danes idk about that sample, I think it’s more southern shifted that what most Danes are.
Anyways here’s an Iron Age Scandinavian from far southern Sweden close to the Danish border from around 500 BC.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 55.26
2 Baltic 35.18
3 West_Med 5.1
4 West_Asian 3.55
5 Amerindian 0.91

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 8.21
2 Norwegian 8.46
3 North_Swedish 10.34
4 Danish 10.84
5 North_Dutch 10.92
6 North_German 12.03
7 Irish 12.52
8 Orcadian 12.54
9 West_Scottish 12.76
10 Southeast_English 14.61
11 Southwest_English 15.27
12 Southwest_Finnish 17.25
13 South_Dutch 18.92
14 East_German 18.96
15 West_German 19.44
16 Austrian 20.08
17 La_Brana-1 22.22
18 Finnish 22.5
19 Hungarian 23.23
20 South_Polish 23.64

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aren

Not really regarding the Dutch. The Danes idk about that sample, I think it’s more southern shifted that what most Danes are.
Anyways here’s an Iron Age Scandinavian from far southern Sweden close to the Danish border from around 500 BC.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 55.26
2 Baltic 35.18
3 West_Med 5.1
4 West_Asian 3.55
5 Amerindian 0.91

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 8.21
2 Norwegian 8.46
3 North_Swedish 10.34
4 Danish 10.84
5 North_Dutch 10.92
6 North_German 12.03
7 Irish 12.52
8 Orcadian 12.54
9 West_Scottish 12.76
10 Southeast_English 14.61
11 Southwest_English 15.27
12 Southwest_Finnish 17.25
13 South_Dutch 18.92
14 East_German 18.96
15 West_German 19.44
16 Austrian 20.08
17 La_Brana-1 22.22
18 Finnish 22.5
19 Hungarian 23.23
20 South_Polish 23.64

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I mean among the living peoples they're certainly the closest. The Swedes and Norwegians have some Finnish and Sami admixture (especially in the North), the Germans have Slavic and Celtic blood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

I mean among the living peoples they're certainly the closest. The Swedes and Norwegians have some Finnish and Sami admixture (especially in the North), the Germans have Slavic and Celtic blood.

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I'm not following here. I post an Iron Age Nordic who most likely was a speaker of proto-Germanic, ie an early Germanic. He scores closest to modern day Norwegians and Swedes first, not North Dutch or Danes, yet you come to the conclusion that they are more Germanic? Most Norwegians and Swedes don't have recent Finnish or Sami ancestry, some probably have distant for sure but that's not substantial at all. Look at the siberian component in this calculator to compare. And even if they have, then Dutch must have even more "southern" ancestry than Scandos have Finnish, cause they are further away from thet Iron Age dude.

Finnish: 6.476666667
Norwegian:0.64
Swedish:0.83
Dutch:0.156666667

Now the Swedish sample have a couple individuals with recent Finnish ancestry that makes it a bit more eastern than what you might find. In fact most of the Swedes I posted get "Norwegian" as first population.

Compare the Iron Age Nordic to these I posted, look how close they are.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 52.29
2 Baltic 32.72
3 West_Med 9.47
4 Siberian 2.11
5 West_Asian 1.85
6 East_Asian 0.66
7 Northeast_African 0.46
8 Sub-Saharan 0.38
9 Amerindian 0.06

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 51.69
2 Baltic 33.59
3 West_Med 10.33
4 West_Asian 1.69
5 Sub-Saharan 1.19
6 Amerindian 0.81
7 Oceanian 0.66
8 Northeast_African 0.04

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 51.33
2 Baltic 30.56
3 West_Med 9.59
4 East_Med 4.45
5 South_Asian 2.05
6 West_Asian 1.36
7 Amerindian 0.33
8 Oceanian 0.25
9 Northeast_African 0.07

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 53.02
2 Baltic 29.17
3 West_Med 7.22
4 East_Med 7
5 Siberian 1.02
6 East_Asian 0.96
7 South_Asian 0.79
8 West_Asian 0.49
9 Oceanian 0.33

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Decius

My east med is really low

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Compare with this Serb. Her parents were born in Kragujevac, Central Serbia
H111370

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aren

I'm not following here. I post an Iron Age Nordic who most likely was a speaker of proto-Germanic, ie an early Germanic. He scores closest to modern day Norwegians and Swedes first, not North Dutch or Danes, yet you come to the conclusion that they are more Germanic? Most Norwegians and Swedes don't have recent Finnish or Sami ancestry, some probably have distant for sure but that's not substantial at all. Look at the siberian component in this calculator to compare. And even if they have, then Dutch must have even more "southern" ancestry than Scandos have Finnish, cause they are further away from thet Iron Age dude.

Finnish: 6.476666667
Norwegian:0.64
Swedish:0.83
Dutch:0.156666667

Now the Swedish sample have a couple individuals with recent Finnish ancestry that makes it a bit more eastern than what you might find. In fact most of the Swedes I posted get "Norwegian" as first population.

Compare the Iron Age Nordic to these I posted, look how close they are.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 52.29
2 Baltic 32.72
3 West_Med 9.47
4 Siberian 2.11
5 West_Asian 1.85
6 East_Asian 0.66
7 Northeast_African 0.46
8 Sub-Saharan 0.38
9 Amerindian 0.06

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 51.69
2 Baltic 33.59
3 West_Med 10.33
4 West_Asian 1.69
5 Sub-Saharan 1.19
6 Amerindian 0.81
7 Oceanian 0.66
8 Northeast_African 0.04

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 51.33
2 Baltic 30.56
3 West_Med 9.59
4 East_Med 4.45
5 South_Asian 2.05
6 West_Asian 1.36
7 Amerindian 0.33
8 Oceanian 0.25
9 Northeast_African 0.07

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 53.02
2 Baltic 29.17
3 West_Med 7.22
4 East_Med 7
5 Siberian 1.02
6 East_Asian 0.96
7 South_Asian 0.79
8 West_Asian 0.49
9 Oceanian 0.33

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So the Germanics originated in Scandinavia?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

So the Germanics originated in Scandinavia?

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They originated in Jutland (Denmark).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mingle

They originated in Jutland (Denmark).

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So the Danish have basically never left their homeland.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

So the Danish have basically never left their homeland.

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Dunno if that's accurate to say.

Proto-Germanic ≠ Proto-Norse ≠ Proto-Danish

Denmark used to be inhabited by other Germanic (possibly West Germanic) tribes such as the Jutes, Cimbrians, and Teutons. The Danish ethnogenisis happened in modern day Southern Sweden (Halland, Skane/Scania, Blekinge) and then the Danes expanded from there and colonized the islands and eventually Jutland later on.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 22.20
2 East_Med 20.45
3 West_Asian 17.92
4 North_Atlantic 17.70
5 Baltic 17.26
6 Red_Sea 3.54


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

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Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Thessaly @ 8.306742
2 Bulgarian @ 10.971380
3 Central_Greek @ 11.625254
4 Italian_Abruzzo @ 12.542930
5 Romanian @ 13.275161
6 East_Sicilian @ 13.661399
7 West_Sicilian @ 15.090073
8 Tuscan @ 15.694138
9 South_Italian @ 16.474901
10 Serbian @ 18.130642
11 Ashkenazi @ 18.398167
12 North_Italian @ 18.965574
13 Moldavian @ 23.203741
14 Sephardic_Jewish @ 23.971428
15 Algerian_Jewish @ 23.974529
16 Italian_Jewish @ 24.575569
17 Turkish @ 25.674788
18 Croatian @ 27.044216
19 Hungarian @ 27.156588
20 Portuguese @ 27.654848

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Bulgarian +50% Central_Greek @ 6.721151


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Bulgarian +25% Lezgin +25% Sardinian @ 3.144589


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Ashkenazi + Georgian + Russian_Smolensk + Sardinian @ 1.799699
2 Belorussian + Central_Greek + Georgian + Sardinian @ 1.825258
3 Belorussian + East_Sicilian + Georgian + Sardinian @ 1.895333
4 Abhkasian + Belorussian + East_Sicilian + Sardinian @ 1.945506
5 Abhkasian + Belorussian + Central_Greek + Sardinian @ 1.978996
6 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Georgian + Sardinian @ 1.992263
7 Ashkenazi + Georgian + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.036301
8 Abhkasian + Ashkenazi + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 2.051125
9 Central_Greek + Estonian_Polish + Georgian + Sardinian @ 2.066965
10 Abhkasian + Ashkenazi + Russian_Smolensk + Sardinian @ 2.072394
11 Georgian + Lithuanian + Sardinian + Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.080936
12 Chechen + Cyprian + Polish + Sardinian @ 2.081998
13 Ashkenazi + Estonian_Polish + Georgian + Sardinian @ 2.082207
14 Abhkasian + Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Sardinian @ 2.101180
15 Georgian + Lithuanian + Sardinian + South_Italian @ 2.110393
16 Ashkenazi + Georgian + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 2.111427
17 East_Sicilian + Estonian_Polish + Georgian + Sardinian @ 2.134755
18 East_Sicilian + Georgian + Russian_Smolensk + Sardinian @ 2.186112
19 Central_Greek + Georgian + Russian_Smolensk + Sardinian @ 2.187508
20 Georgian + Italian_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 2.204714

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mingle

Dunno if that's accurate to say.

Proto-Germanic ≠ Proto-Norse ≠ Proto-Danish

Denmark used to be inhabited by other Germanic (possibly West Germanic) tribes such as the Jutes, Cimbrians, and Teutons. The Danish ethnogenisis happened in modern day Southern Sweden (Halland, Skane/Scania, Blekinge) and then the Danes expanded from there and colonized the islands and eventually Jutland later on.

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Lul what. Jutes are North Germanic, with the exception of a tiny Frisian community in the far south. And the Danish ethnogenisis happend in the Danish islands, most notably Själland and expanded east to include Skåne, Halland and Blekinge. Both Swedish and Danish evolved from Old East Norse in contrast with Norwegian and Icelandic which evolved from Old West Norse. Fact is all Germanics during the Iron Age/Roman era were probably genetically the same. The small southern shift of Northern Germans/Dutch probably happend with mixing of Celts(Hallstatt culture) and later on with fellow southern Germans/Dutch.