Are light traits in Southern Europe due to the northern European admixture ?

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Originally Posted by ABest

I see. BTW, I always thought that ancient Greeks looked a bit darker than modern Greeks. Would you agree?

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Yes and no.

Greece today has Slavic influence which lightened them.
But Greece also has a lot of Pontians living there who moved from Pontos.. and Pontians are Hellenized Armenian-like people, thus bringing a racially alien and darker type into Greece.

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Originally Posted by Sikeliot

I think it's either

1) a higher retention of ancient Greek genes in Sicilians/Calabrese and Greek islanders versus high Albanian and/or Slavic influence in parts of mainland Greece AND Pontians being Hellenized Caucasians and Cypriots Hellenized Levantines

or

2) The Neolithic wave of migration that hit the Greek islands also got southern Italy but missed mainland Greece.

For the record Cypriots also appear more "familiar" in comparison to Sicilians than do mainland Greeks.

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This is a man speaking calabrian greek.

If you read comments, a lot of cypriots say ''wow our languages are very similar''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqIhoshpotI

I've found some Sicilians on 23andme, mostly in the Catania and Enna area, clustering near Cypriots.

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Originally Posted by Alex Delarge

That's pretty much impossible to know.

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unless geneticists test more pre-bronze age southern euros like Oetzi (before BB reflux , Urnfield and Hallstatt expansion) and then compare them with post-bronze age southern euros...

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Originally Posted by Sikeliot

Yes and no.

Greece today has Slavic influence which lightened them.
But Greece also has a lot of Pontians living there who moved from Pontos.. and Pontians are Hellenized Armenian-like people, thus bringing a racially alien and darker type into Greece.

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I see. Yeah, I do agree that lighter types have been introduced in every southern nation over the years.

Of course, some light characteristics are inherent in Med people but population movements are inevitable.

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Originally Posted by ABest

I see. Yeah, I do agree that lighter types have been introduced in every southern nation over the years.

Of course, some light characteristics are inherent in Med people but population movements are inevitable.

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Yes. But I also think to balance it out, more Greeks today look truly Armenoid than otherwise would because Pontic Greeks are Hellenized and cluster in the Caucasus, and have moved to (and mixed with) other Greeks.

I wish people would be interested in northern italian cultures as they're about southern Italy, lol...

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Originally Posted by Peyrol

This is a man speaking calabrian greek.

If you read comments, a lot of cypriots say ''wow our languages are very similar''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqIhoshpotI

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Not to correct you again, but I believe you've posted him before.

He's from the Griko community of Puglia. The Calabrese Griko is a very different dialect.

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Originally Posted by Peyrol

This is a man speaking calabrian greek.

If you read comments, a lot of cypriots say ''wow our languages are very similar''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqIhoshpotI

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I think the fact that clusters of Greek speakers still exist in Italy is so touching. It is amazing! :)

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Originally Posted by alfieb

Not to correct you again, but I believe you've posted him before.

He's from the Griko community of Puglia. The Calabrese Griko is a very different dialect.

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Pardon, you're true...this is apulian greek (the ''griko''), not calabrian.

This is calabrian greek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e-aOheCFbY

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Originally Posted by ABest

I think the fact that clusters of Greek speakers still exist in Italy is so touching. It is amazing! :)

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Yes it's an amazing thing....but unfortunately the language is nearly extinct.