So Celts were North Europeans after all?

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Originally Posted by Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas

The one from St. Gallen (Eastern Switzerland Germanic Canton) caught my attention as it is quite close to a modern Basque\Iberian.

Code:

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Target: St_Gallen:SX20
Distance: 2.4222% / 0.02422226
76.0        Basque
12.2        Balto_Slavic_North
8.4        Greek_Albanian
3.4        Northwest_European

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Code:

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Distance to:        St_Gallen:SX20
0.03170147        Basque
0.03749692        Belgian_French
0.04818528        Iberian
0.06029530        Northwest_European
0.06161228        North_Sea_Germanic
0.06551486        Balkan
0.06631236        Central_European
0.07260614        Scando_Germanic
0.07360623        Greek_Albanian
0.08978597        Polish_Ukrainian
0.10511355        Sicilian_Maltese
0.11101468        Balto_Slavic_South
0.11142811        Balto_Slavic_North
0.13360026        Finnic
0.13925607        European_Jewish
0.15240539        West_Turkish
0.16469766        Circassian
0.17427253        Levant
0.17453272        Azeri
0.17547694        Armenian_Assyrian
0.18694591        Abkhasian_Georgian
0.19241452        Iranian
0.19742813        Tajik
0.21328751        Udmurt
0.21576389        Northeast_African

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Can we stop talking about this Basque stuff without a reason? It looks like a North-East Spaniard or a South-West French and it's an outlier compared to the average, plus among the historical samples from Spain it's close to only 2 of them, for both of which we have good reason to believe they have Celtic admixture themselves.

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Originally Posted by brennus dux gallorum

anyway, you, as everyone here make the mistake to see Celts as a racial group instead of linguo-cultural which they really were, and as a linguocultural group they were originated from the same subclade with Italics, just like Germanics came from the same subclade with Balto-slavs

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Most historical "linguo-cultural" groups correlated with genetic similarities to some extent, so expecting genetic similarities or expecting genetic shifts towards the origin population when the socio-linguistic situation changes isn't unwarranted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Voskos

How likely is it that North Europeans migrated out of modern Central Europe to populate scandinavia?I think it's a possible scenario.

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I mean isn't that already confirmed considering the origins of Battle-Axe culture?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raizen

i mean, the ones you cited and the ones posted by brás garcias de mascarenhas are bronze age samples. there were no celts during the bronze age. clearly these iron age samples aren't descended from these basque-like bronze age people.

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Again, how can't they be "basque"-like when the average Steppe admixture is 45%? Only 2 samples are under 35% and approach the kind of admixture Basques have.

Bronze Age British/Irish averages, modern Insular Celtic averages, and potential Celts / Proto-Celts / Proto-Italo-Celts from Central Europe.

https://i.postimg.cc/g2RMKsTV/Opera-...-github-io.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creoda

Bronze Age British/Irish averages, modern Insular Celtic averages, and potential Celts / Proto-Celts / Proto-Italo-Celts from Central Europe.

https://i.postimg.cc/g2RMKsTV/Opera-...-github-io.png

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again, these samples are not potential proto-celts, they still spoke some form of PIE. proto-celts are the ones posted by op

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raizen

again, these samples are not potential proto-celts, they still spoke some form of PIE. proto-celts are the ones posted by op

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No they did not speak PIE in Bronze Age Western Europe. They'd have spoken some form of Proto-Italo-Celtic at least, if they spoke an IE language. The ones Token posted are supposed to be Iron Age, so not really Proto-Celts but actual Celts.

Here are the Aargau samples from the OP on the right, by comparison.
https://i.postimg.cc/rwPx1HBp/Opera-...-github-io.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creoda

No they did not speak PIE in Bronze Age Western Europe. They'd have spoken some form of Proto-Italo-Celtic at least, if they spoke an IE language. The ones Token posted are supposed to be Iron Age, so not really Proto-Celts but actual Celts.

Here are the Aargau samples from the OP on the right, by comparison.
https://i.postimg.cc/rwPx1HBp/Opera-...-github-io.png

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i doubt they even spoke IE. i bet they spoke something related to Rhaetian. most of western europe didn't spoke ie at this time (prob. even britain, with pictish). if they are early Iron Age they could very well be hallstatt culture and thus proto-celtic. i believe proto-italo-celtic can be explained by a later wave of steppe ancestry coming from corded ware proto-unetice (unetice is predecessor of urnfield, which is predecessor of hallstatt). there is a unetice sample in G25, take a look at it

i was expecting some roman admixture in britain and collateral roman admixture into ireland, culture doesn't change out of nowhere. that would explain this southern shift.

Target: MX195_scaled
Distance: 4.1907% / 0.04190749 | ADC: 2x
100.0 Norwegian

Target: MX192_scaled
Distance: 4.0441% / 0.04044076 | ADC: 2x
100.0 Norwegian

Target: MX190_scaled
Distance: 4.2110% / 0.04211028 | ADC: 2x
65.8 Icelandic
34.2 Swedish

Target: MX188_scaled
Distance: 4.2699% / 0.04269943 | ADC: 2x
80.8 Norwegian
19.2 Afrikaner