Croat K13 regional (and national) averages

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Originally Posted by Insuperable

I see this map posted around, mostly by Serbs though.
https://i.imgur.com/05aQida.jpg

In the lower right corner says University of Illinois-Indiana, but there are gramatical errors, it says at the time of Hungarian conquess instead of conquest. Map can't be found anywhere and posted mostly by Serbs which brings some suspicion.

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The map says Slovenians, but these are not modern Slovenians, but the population of Medieval kingdom of Slavonia which was in native language called Slovenska ( 'orszag Slovenski' or 'szveta cirkva Zagrebecska Szlovenzka'). In that time Slovenia was not in existence and that was not the name of Slovenia and Slovenians which were then called according to the regional names as Kranjci in Carniola, Štajerci in Styria, Korošci in Carinthia etc.

Distance to: Oszkar
8.00033124 Croat_Gorski-kotar
8.01659529 Croat_Zagorje
8.74561604 Croat_Central
10.71518549 Croat_Zagreb
12.49913997 Croat
13.05080074 Croat_Bosnia
13.14078765 Croat_Slavonia
13.27533050 Croat_Lika-Senj
14.08003196 Croat_Dalmatia
14.23224859 Croat_Tropolje
14.85988223 Croat_Istria
15.33211662 Croat_Herzegovina

double

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Originally Posted by ph2ter

The map says Slovenians, but these are not modern Slovenians, but the population of Medieval kingdom of Slavonia which was in native language called Slovenska ( 'orszag Slovenski' or 'szveta cirkva Zagrebecska Szlovenzka'). In that time Slovenia was not in existence and that was not the name of Slovenia and Slovenians which were then called according to the regional names as Kranjci in Carniola, Štajerci in Styria, Korošci in Carinthia etc.

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So Slavonian Croat has so different dialect?

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Originally Posted by Lukasz

So Slavonian Croat has so different dialect?

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Modern Slavonia and Medieval Slavonia are not the same thing. Today Slavonia is only the Eastern part of Croatia, but in Medieval Age Slavonia was Northwestern part of Croatia (around Zagreb).

Kaykavian Croatian dialect is to modern official Slovenian maybe like Slovakian is to Czech.

Do you think Croat_Slavonia should be split into Croat_East_Slavonia and Croat_West_Slavonia?

In supercomputer's maps, there was a notable east-west divide in Slavonia: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...map-of-Croatia

Seems like such a difference would translate to genetics as well.

And if I'm not mistaken, some of Eastern Slavonia was annexed to Croatia relatively recently.

Also, one more question, is there any genetic difference between Chakavian-speaking Croats and Shtokavian-speaking Croats that live in the same area?

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Originally Posted by Mingle

Do you think Croat_Slavonia should be split into Croat_East_Slavonia and Croat_West_Slavonia?

In supercomputer's maps, there was a notable east-west divide in Slavonia: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...map-of-Croatia

Seems like such a difference would translate to genetics as well.

And if I'm not mistaken, some of Eastern Slavonia was annexed to Croatia relatively recently.

Also, one more question, is there any genetic difference between Chakavian-speaking Croats and Shtokavian-speaking Croats that live in the same area?

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But on this map most eastern province was partly repopulated after '90 Balkan wars when most Serbs from it left. I don't think he checked if his Croats from eastern Slavonia are autochtonous. Maybe some Dalmatians settled there.

Another case if we can trust those averages on this map.

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Originally Posted by Mingle

Do you think Croat_Slavonia should be split into Croat_East_Slavonia and Croat_West_Slavonia?

In supercomputer's maps, there was a notable east-west divide in Slavonia: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...map-of-Croatia

Seems like such a difference would translate to genetics as well.

And if I'm not mistaken, some of Eastern Slavonia was annexed to Croatia relatively recently.

Also, one more question, is there any genetic difference between Chakavian-speaking Croats and Shtokavian-speaking Croats that live in the same area?

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West Slavonia has significant Czech minority. East Slavonia has some autochtonous pockets of population from Middle Ages, but is mainly populated from Bosnian Posavina (that stream was going even before Turkish invasions).
Serbs are there from Turkish times. After expulsion of Turks, East Slavonia is also repopulated by German settlers (who were expelled in majority after WWII). There is also autochtonous Hungarian minority. Majority of Serbs in East Slavonia as far as I know stayed in East Slavonia. It was peacefully integrated in Croatia.

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

Delete all old Romanian and Moldovan ones except Romanian_average, that one is good.
Than add these

Romania_Moldavia_average,23.92,27.62,16.56,9.91,16 .68,1.51,0.58,0.43,1.36,0.63,0.46,0.16,0.16
Romania_Moldavia_North,23.82,28.53,15.49,10.61,16. 38,1.41,0.68,0.40,1.25,0.60,0.40,0.22,0.21
Romania_Moldavia_South,24.02,26.76,17.58,9.25,16.9 7,1.60,0.48,0.46,1.47,0.65,0.52,0.10,0.12
Moldova_average,22.51,27.80,16.89,10.65,16.33,2.30 ,0.44,0.62,1.19,0.54,0.42,0.10,0.20
Moldova_North,25.89,33.33,14.92,8.89,11.43,1.48,0. 65,0.56,1.47,0.35,0.61,0.17,0.26
Moldova_Centre,21.89,29.51,16.06,10.47,16.10,1.90, 0.53,0.83,1.14,0.81,0.48,0.08,0.20
Moldova_South,21.51,24.20,18.33,11.54,18.60,2.94,0 .29,0.49,1.11,0.42,0.29,0.10,0.18
Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes,24.50,36.97,13.80,8.11,11 .00,1.03,1.07,0.57,1.66,0.66,0.26,0.12,0.25
Serbian_Belgrade_academic,24.42,28.12,17.06,9.06,1 7.09,1.48,0.45,0.36,0.73,0.56,0.54,0.1,0.04
Romanian_Oltenia,23.83,17.91,10.68,17.72,1.81,0.67 ,0.85,0.60,0.40,0.37,0.09,0.06,0.00
Romanian_Muntenia,21.74,24.52,16.95,11.73,19.26,2. 31,0.82,0.55,1,0.45,0.34,0.26,0.07
Romanian_Wallachia_average,22.68,24.86,17.47,11.15 ,18.47,2.11,0.71,0.70,0.85,0.41,0.36,0.16,0.06
Romanian_Transylvania,23.98,26.24,17.43,9.61,17.51 ,1.68,0.64,0.62,1.13,0.54,0.40,0.09,0.12

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You have a typo for Oltenia.

Romanian_Oltenia,23.83,25.02,17.91,10.68,17.72,1.8 1,0.67,0.85,0.60,0.40,0.37,0.09,0.06

But I will update the averages soon.

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Originally Posted by Mingle

Do you think Croat_Slavonia should be split into Croat_East_Slavonia and Croat_West_Slavonia?

In supercomputer's maps, there was a notable east-west divide in Slavonia: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...map-of-Croatia

Seems like such a difference would translate to genetics as well.

And if I'm not mistaken, some of Eastern Slavonia was annexed to Croatia relatively recently.

Also, one more question, is there any genetic difference between Chakavian-speaking Croats and Shtokavian-speaking Croats that live in the same area?

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Slavonia is region with least samples so it's early to tell. I don't think such division is justified, it's one historical region.
Btw, Serb population remained in east Slavonia unlike in western. And east Slavonia was part of Croatia since liberation from Ottomans.

In Dalmatia samples vary and I can't see direct link to dialect so far. So I would say they don't differ according to dialect but individually. We''ll see in the future.