Ashkenazi Jews are only 1/4 Israelite

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10-01-2024, 03:46 PM
Dušan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnson Reed

The issue is that the Italians at the time that Jews mixed with them were akin to modern South Italians, not modern Central Italians.

Check their result on Illustrative DNA.

This one got over 40% Canaanite/Phoenician/Roman Levant

https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativ...ts_pic_at_end/

36-38%

https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativ...ewish_results/

etc
12-05-2025, 02:47 PM
Kowalski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demirkazık

https://i.ibb.co/fFvxKwQ/floorp-9jd7iqvu-Lu.png

This is a better model for Ashkenazi Jews and Europeans. Most of the samples are from the Imperial Roman Age.

Code:

Anatolian:Ḫattuša,0.1064245,0.152837,-0.0422375,-0.0686375,-0.0089245,-0.0192435,-0.00188,-0.0061155,-0.0068515,0.022871,0.0043035,0.0018735,-0.0165755,0.0086015,-0.013097,-0.004309,0.0048895,-0.002787,0.0017595,-0.005315,-0.0009355,-0.0005565,-0.0023415,0.0019885,-0.00455 Caucasian,0.1052865,0.13405,-0.0671275,-0.034238,-0.0533945,-0.0029285,0.013043,-0.006346,-0.0766965,-0.033805,0.0006495,0.013413,-0.0260155,-0.000275,0.004886,-0.0207505,0.012843,-0.000507,-0.010496,0.019134,0.017906,-0.0011745,-0.0043755,-0.0147005,-0.0044905 Balkan:Moesian,0.121791,0.1590993,0.0131993,-0.0301467,0.0321083,-0.0135727,0.00235,0.0030767,0.003886,0.0335313,0.0061707,0.0105907,-0.0143213,-0.0014223,-0.02072,-0.0010163,0.0149073,0.0019847,0.008799,-0.0065863,-0.0112303,0.008079,-0.00341,0.003414,-0.0011577 Roman:Rome,0.1088434,0.1515678,-0.0004242,-0.0366605,0.019388,-0.0162105,-0.0015569,-0.0043556,0.0053178,0.0234401,0.0005072,0.004496,-0.0079534,-0.0013245,-0.0066334,-0.0028674,0.002298,-0.0005541,0.0020742,-0.0000311,-0.0012011,0.0005101,0.0034815,-0.0015364,-0.0007185 Roman:Picenum,0.1104085,0.1500445,0.0028282,-0.0457045,0.0199268,-0.0171518,0.0000588,-0.002423,0.0099192,0.0283832,0.0051558,0.0056952,-0.0081022,-0.0020642,-0.006311,-0.004707,0.0022492,-0.0002215,0.0046822,-0.0014068,-0.0035565,0.003246,-0.0032045,-0.002952,-0.0039815 Mesopotamian:Dinkha-Tepe,0.0902048,0.1409048,-0.0628848,-0.0776008,-0.027005,-0.0253092,0.0018212,-0.0072692,-0.010584,0.0013668,0.0073888,-0.003709,0.0090312,-0.000757,-0.0025785,0.0126955,-0.0007825,0.0027238,0.003771,-0.0038455,0.0045858,0.002195,-0.0052995,-0.0013858,0.0025445 Canaanite,0.0840665,0.148393,-0.0634209,-0.1014829,-0.0118078,-0.0396034,-0.0043807,-0.0094099,0.013829,0.0086646,0.0101956,-0.0108203,0.0216497,0.0046582,-0.0096671,0.0086647,-0.0030674,0.0020017,0.002749,0.0064067,0.0042414,0.0053394,-0.0035185,-0.0008072,-0.0001107 Celtic:Insular:Roscommon,0.1265792,0.1315286,0.0600402,0.0508447,0.0368238,0.0178875,0.000705,0.0048618,0.0043937,0.0011438,-0.0062604,0.0071419,-0.0153941,-0.0164436,0.0252954,0.007832,-0.0080209,0.0015596,0.0018855,0.0036828,0.0051288,0.0038034,0.0013388,0.0119334,-0.0005368 Celtic:Continental:Faux-Vesigneul,0.1277096,0.1367916,0.057624,0.0362406,0.0469625,0.0108209,0.005499,0.0028846,0.0085288,0.0121734,-0.0034263,0.0071935,-0.0125322,-0.008794,0.0130562,-0.0031025,-0.0104828,0.0017104,0.0024637,-0.0009129,0.0050038,0.0049585,-0.0013803,-0.0012772,-0.0015806 Germanic:Öland,0.1255306,0.1260707,0.0751547,0.0613239,0.0448874,0.0220723,0.0060429,0.0101864,0.005376,-0.0036186,-0.0041293,-0.000942,-0.0037801,0.0015729,0.0162863,0.0066106,-0.0052527,0.0024253,0.0064287,0.0067174,0.0068091,0.0015016,0.0011444,0.0097604,-0.0000686 Germanic:Nordland,0.133173,0.127957,0.073916,0.063308,0.046162,0.019801,0.003055,0.003,0.003068,-0.009112,-0.014615,0.002997,-0.010258,-0.009634,0.027144,0.007425,-0.002477,0.001774,0.003771,0.01088,0.007487,0.005564,0.000246,0.010122,-0.005149 Germanic:Zealand,0.127482,0.131003,0.066185,0.066538,0.042931,0.0214745,0.0027025,0.0129225,0.00859,-0.010934,-0.003816,0.0080175,-0.0043855,-0.004542,0.0217835,0.007027,-0.0131685,0.008488,0.005091,0.0075035,0.0086725,0.007172,0.001171,0.013315,0.0015565 Balto-Slavic:Baltic,0.1305171,0.1268283,0.1001044,0.1110769,0.048385,0.0399124,0.0145449,0.0188197,-0.000568,-0.0488596,-0.0003249,-0.0189164,0.0329201,0.0433512,-0.0168293,0.0013113,0.0021294,-0.0014498,-0.0003212,0.0077817,-0.0024957,-0.0051934,0.0092299,-0.0223726,0.0025412 Balto-Slavic:Slavic,0.135449,0.128972,0.080704,0.063954,0.034776,0.034025,0.006815,0.007615,0.009613,-0.02041,-0.001461,-0.005245,0.010852,0.026561,-0.014658,-0.002254,0.002347,0.001267,0.01081,-0.001751,0.001622,-0.002844,0.009613,-0.008314,0.005389 Turkic:Oghuz,0.070001,-0.178733,0.052797,0.007106,-0.0438545,-0.0110165,0.0047,0.0119995,-0.010942,-0.0073805,-0.0178625,-0.002173,0.00171,-0.0099775,0.0026465,0.002254,-0.0065845,0.002597,0.011753,0.0106925,-0.020713,-0.000804,-0.0109075,-0.0024705,-0.001497

Distance to: Repent:RealG25_scaled
0.04838956 Balto-Slavic:Slavic
0.06287801 Germanic:Öland
0.07250244 Germanic:Zealand
0.07397683 Celtic:Continental:Faux-Vesigneul
0.07679630 Germanic:Nordland
0.07859668 Celtic:Insular:Roscommon
0.10182511 Balto-Slavic:Baltic
0.12836235 Balkan:Moesian
0.13185887 Roman:Rome
0.13829351 Roman:Picenum
0.18019243 Anatolian:Ḫattuša
0.20073038 Mesopotamian:Dinkha-Tepe
0.20639223 Caucasian
0.21934483 Canaanite
0.31347970 Turkic:Oghuz

Target: Repent:RealG25_scaled
Distance: 2.5986% / 0.02598634
61.6 Balto-Slavic
20.4 Balkan
7.8 Turkic
4.4 Anatolian
3.2 Germanic
1.4 Canaanite
1.2 Caucasian
12-05-2025, 02:51 PM
Kowalski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

Well, I checked Roman samples from Illustrative DNA from mine area:

Code:

Roman*Illyria*(AD*100–600):Roman*Illyria:SRB_Svilos_Krusevlje:R6693,0.119514,0.149283,0.011314,-0.015827,0.022158,-0.002789,-0.00047,0.013384,0.011658,0.027518,-0.003735,0.016036,-0.019177,0.008257,-0.008415,-0.01127,-0.002086,0.001267,0.011061,-0.004502,-0.003369,-0.002473,-0.002342,0.005061,-0.005628 Roman*Illyria*(AD*100–600):Roman*Illyria:SRB_Svilos_Krusevlje:R6701,0.126344,0.153345,0.028284,-0.028101,0.032621,-0.009482,0.005405,0.003,0.010431,0.031709,0.005521,0.001499,-0.006838,-0.001239,-0.011129,-0.014054,-0.011865,-0.004054,0.002137,-0.006503,-0.009733,-0.008779,0.002095,0.002289,-0.00467 Roman*Illyria*(AD*100–600):Roman*Illyria:SRB_Viminacium:R9669,0.117238,0.144205,0.017725,-0.012274,0.028928,-0.001116,0,0.009,0.001432,0.021868,0.005196,0.008243,-0.012785,-0.005643,-0.011672,0.001724,0.004172,0.005954,0.00905,-0.005753,-0.013851,0.013354,-0.002218,0.00964,0.007784 Roman*Illyria*(AD*100–600):Roman*Illyria:MNE_Doclea_Bjelovine:R3481,0.113823,0.153345,0.013576,-0.032623,0.016618,-0.013945,0.00517,-0.004846,-0.000409,0.029158,-0.006171,0.004646,-0.015758,-0.000138,-0.011808,-0.015646,-0.004303,0.008488,0.007919,-0.011005,-0.000624,0.007048,-0.003821,-0.004458,-0.004191

Their average was close to central even north Italian.

Roman_SRB-MNE,0.11923,0.150044,0.017725,-0.022206,0.025081,-0.006833,0.002526,0.005134,0.005778,0.027563,0.000 203,0.007606,-0.01364,0.000309,-0.010756,-0.009812,-0.00352,0.002914,0.007542,-0.006941,-0.006894,0.002288,-0.001572,0.003133,-0.001676

Distance to: Roman_SRB-MNE
0.01930112 Italian_Tuscany
0.02025733 Italian_Emilia
0.02070954 Italian_Lombardy
0.02079867 Greek_Thessaly
0.02340132 Italian_Piedmont
0.02347989 Italian_Marche
0.02434137 Italian_Umbria
0.02561755 French_Corsica
0.02621177 Italian_Bergamo
0.02648841 Greek_Messenia

I dont know is this was common all across Roman empire, but this is for areas of modern Serbia and Montenegro.

Distance to: Repent:RealG25_scaled
0.10486729 Roman*Illyria*(AD*100–600):Roman*Illyria:SRB_Vimin acium:R9669
0.11458799 Roman*Illyria*(AD*100–600):Roman*Illyria:SRB_Svilo s_Krusevlje:R6693
0.11582781 Roman*Illyria*(AD*100–600):Roman*Illyria:SRB_Svilo s_Krusevlje:R6701
0.12744884 Roman*Illyria*(AD*100–600):Roman*Illyria:MNE_Docle a_Bjelovine:R3481

Target: Repent:RealG25_scaled
Distance: 10.4867% / 0.10486729
100.0 Roman*Illyria*(AD*100–600):Roman*Illyria:SRB_Vimin acium:R9669
12-05-2025, 02:54 PM
Kowalski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paraksenos

The Imperial Roma samples have 2 homogenous clusters. 30% of the samples are homogenous Aegean and are identical to the homogenous Roman era West Anatolians from Mugla. They are genetic profile that existed since Hellenistic times in the Aegean and were already homogenous in the Roman era.

The other cluster clusters with South Italians and is a mix of Aegeans + Italic-Gaul related and possible single digit % of direct Levantine.

0.South.Greece/West.Anatolia(Roman_era_1-200AD):Imperial_Rome(Mugla_profile)+Mugla,0.108738 9,0.1527357,-0.0335888,-0.0700049,0.0004309,-0.0225901,0.0002193,-0.0049076,-0.0057949,0.0243225,0.0046767,0.0034469,-0.0066204,0.0031103,-0.0139793,-0.0054362,0.0047721,0.0004729,0.0040811,-0.0070116,-0.0044421,0.0023824,-0.0023993,0.0029722,0.0008222

These are the 2 clusters without the outliers

Italy_Central/South_Roman_Imperial_1-200AD(Greek_cluster),0.1088636,0.1526196,-0.0313278,-0.0678069,0.0010112,-0.0238849,0.0019639,-0.0049449,-0.0068223,0.0250445,0.0057764,0.0039501,-0.0067959,0.0023986,-0.0144834,-0.0044039,0.0062212,-0.0000815,0.0026039,-0.0056008,-0.0038235,0.0023759,-0.0034863,0.0024185,0.0004704
Italy_Central/South_Roman_Imperial(South_Italian_cluster),0.1127 723,0.1499078,-0.0114876,-0.0458908,0.0106765,-0.0152317,-0.0020427,-0.0055915,-0.0003776,0.0195413,0.0022858,0.0039542,-0.007959,-0.0043298,-0.0080389,-0.0016012,0.006439,0.0018516,0.0048442,-0.0047812,-0.0008542,0.00448,-0.0014315,-0.0020577,-0.0002672

https://i.imgur.com/N71J3aP.png
https://i.imgur.com/A7adotp.png
https://i.imgur.com/XlqKwcT.png
https://i.imgur.com/DdPPNvj.png

https://i.imgur.com/KTlS9eL.png
Source pops for Jews:

Code:

0.South_Aegean_Greek(Roman_era_1-200AD):Imperial_Rome(Mugla_profile)+Mugla,0.1087389,0.1527357,-0.0335888,-0.0700049,0.0004309,-0.0225901,0.0002193,-0.0049076,-0.0057949,0.0243225,0.0046767,0.0034469,-0.0066204,0.0031103,-0.0139793,-0.0054362,0.0047721,0.0004729,0.0040811,-0.0070116,-0.0044421,0.0023824,-0.0023993,0.0029722,0.0008222 1.Italy_North_Roman_Imperial_proxy:French_Corsica,0.1203273,0.1518216,0.0195294,-0.0230022,0.0350394,-0.0100401,-0.0018464,-0.0005604,0.0157044,0.0337918,-0.0006031,0.0074612,-0.0132308,-0.0071074,-0.004537,-0.0005968,0.0040419,0.0012489,0.0024511,-0.0030461,-0.0003923,0.0002474,-0.0025793,-0.0013858,-0.0005303 4.Levant_Iron_Age-Roman-era:Israel_Iron_Age,0.0814974,0.1442052,-0.0603392,-0.0961896,-0.015326,-0.0372598,-0.005546,-0.0069228,0.0140302,0.013777,0.007535,-0.0062646,0.0189392,0.0040736,-0.0047774,0.0032084,-0.004407,0.0041806,0.0022374,0.00065,0.0014474,0.0051688,-0.0027606,-0.0024822,-0.0007664 4.Levant_Iron_Age-Roman-era:Levant_Beirut_ERoman-era,0.0822372,0.140397,-0.0554368,-0.091409,-0.0178492,-0.033118,-0.0042888,-0.0060572,0.0098685,0.0091575,0.0094592,-0.0100412,0.0174305,-0.0010665,-0.0100435,0.016872,0.0113432,-0.0047825,0.0008485,0.0014382,0.0050222,0.0055645,-0.0041905,0.003434,-0.0022455 9.Medieval_Turkic_Karakhanid.SG:DA204_noUDG.SG,0.073985,-0.156392,0.031301,0.013889,-0.052933,0,0.000235,0.003231,-0.014521,-0.017677,-0.014453,-0.003147,0.00223,-0.016377,0.009908,-0.000928,-0.01343,0.001267,0.004525,0.001,-0.014974,0.000742,-0.004067,-0.005663,-0.006586 8.North_Euro:Slavic:Polish,0.1318405,0.1292694,0.0698685,0.0577382,0.0406754,0.0217127,0.0086781,0.0108626,-0.0009329,-0.0185524,-0.0043488,-0.0064187,0.013093,0.0186295,-0.0070244,-0.0005595,0.0015455,-7.41e-05,0.0026948,0.0012872,-0.0031286,-0.0031185,0.0056063,-0.0033328,-8.76e-05 8.North_Euro:Slavic:Belarusian,0.1322625,0.1236239,0.0750219,0.0695957,0.0402331,0.0265691,0.0107321,0.0133226,-0.0002727,-0.0246017,-0.0026957,-0.0092119,0.0193259,0.0272309,-0.0112647,-0.0038009,-0.0009647,0.0003717,0.0041397,-0.0010504,-0.0042342,-0.0046081,0.0077235,-0.0068601,0.000694 9.North_African_TUN_Kerkouane_Iron_Age:R11759,-0.072847,0.142174,0.003017,-0.072352,0.032621,-0.039602,-0.033607,0.009923,0.090604,0.031345,0.011367,-0.012289,0.026164,-0.015689,0.025515,-0.017369,0.00013,-0.026985,-0.055559,0.007504,-0.013476,-0.045257,0.023294,-0.014098,0.012334

Distance to: Repent:RealG25_scaled
0.03434310 8.North_Euro:Slavic:Polish
0.04186632 8.North_Euro:Slavic:Belarusian
0.11989560 1.Italy_North_Roman_Imperial_proxy:French_Corsica
0.17350316 0.South_Aegean_Greek(Roman_era_1-200AD):Imperial_Rome(Mugla_profile)+Mugla
0.20793209 4.Levant_Iron_Age-Roman-era:Levant_Beirut_ERoman-era
0.21428682 4.Levant_Iron_Age-Roman-era:Israel_Iron_Age
0.29490522 9.Medieval_Turkic_Karakhanid.SG:DA204_noUDG.SG
0.29654568 9.North_African_TUN_Kerkouane_Iron_Age:R11759

Target: Repent:RealG25_scaled
Distance: 2.0677% / 0.02067749
81.8 8.North_Euro
12.4 0.South_Aegean_Greek(Roman_era_1-200AD)
5.8 9.Medieval_Turkic_Karakhanid.SG

Target: Repent:RealG25_scaled
Distance: 2.0677% / 0.02067749
63.6 8.North_Euro:Slavic:Belarusian
18.2 8.North_Euro:Slavic:Polish
12.4 0.South_Aegean_Greek(Roman_era_1-200AD):Imperial_Rome(Mugla_profile)+Mugla
5.8 9.Medieval_Turkic_Karakhanid.SG:DA204_noUDG.SG
12-12-2025, 09:35 PM
Parthia

It maybe something like that but
the means at wich OP and other people in this thread are getting there isn't really correct.

Being Levantine or Canaanite doesn't automatically equal Isrealite
most of the non isrealite DNA in Jews actually comes from converted Levantines/Canaanites and then converted Romans/Greeks
Canaanites/Levantines are a mixed people so it is hard to say what the original Isrealite DNA looked like
12-12-2025, 11:26 PM
NSXD60

No one alive today can say for sure exactly what the DNA makeup of the ancient Jews was, but I suspect it wasn't a mirror image of the "Palestinians", probably more like Woody Allen or Barbra Streisand. Such ancestral facial contours as these two possess doesn't come from Europe, east or west.
12-13-2025, 12:30 AM
Bulkster

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSXD60

No one alive today can say for sure exactly what the DNA makeup of the ancient Jews was, but I suspect it wasn't a mirror image of the "Palestinians", probably more like Woody Allen or Barbra Streisand. Such ancestral facial contours as these two possess doesn't come from Europe, east or west.

We actually do have ancient Israelite DNA, and the closest peoples to them are modern day Samaritans and Levantine Christians(esp to Palestinian Christians). Even Palestinian Muslims are more closer to them than Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ighlight=kross

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