Indigenous Balkan I2a1 in southern Albania

m423 - all brought by Slavic speakers, same with its ancestral clade m438

Too much fat saturating in your brain has not made you realize this, catgeorge. All your posts reek of butthurt from Australia.

You shouldnt talk about Scandinavians when you plot closer to modern Lebanese. Typical fat bluepilled retard.

21% R1a str8 from Poland.

As i explained earlier in this thread it is impossible that S Albania has so much I2a1b, esspecially more then Macedonia, sounds like complete nonsense.
There is no chance that most of S Albania has 30% I2a1b, maybe 10% and thats if at best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dema

As i explained earlier in this thread it is impossible that S Albania has so much I2a1b, esspecially more then Macedonia, sounds like complete nonsense.
There is no chance that most of S Albania has 30% I2a1b, maybe 10% and thats if at best.

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Maybe I am missing something, I dont see that study. But I assumed its around 10% with another 10-15% r1a, from other studies I have seen. (about the same as Greece, who also generally resisted Slavicization in the middle ages) For ethnic purists, that is significant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

m423 - all brought by Slavic speakers

Too much fat saturating in your brain has not made you realize this, catgeorge. All your posts reek of butthurt from Australia.

You shouldnt talk about Scandinavians when you plot closer to modern Lebanese. Typical fat bluepilled retard.

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I M438 is way before Slav speakers I2a1b2 has its ancestery from M438 but I2a1 is not I2a-Din and vice versa theres about 10,000 years difference. Io si kapsh Iranic triangle head?

I-M438 is more likely to be an Alpine/mountain related haplogroup as its big in the Swiss alps and thus found in and around the South East Europe mountains as well. You are very much a miseducated low IQ simpleton.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

I M438 is way before Slav speakers I2a1b2 has its ancestery from M438 but I2a1 is not I2a-Din and vice versa theres about 10,000 years difference. Io si kapsh Iranic triangle head?

I-M438 is more likely to be an Alpine/mountain related haplogroup as its big in the Swiss alps and thus found in and around the South East Europe mountains as well. You are very much a miseducated low IQ simpleton.

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I-M438 is both of those clades, the dominant one in Greece is I2a1b though, man. It appears there in the middle ages, i believe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

I M438 is way before Slav speakers I2a1b2 has its ancestery from M438 but I2a1 is not I2a-Din and vice versa theres about 10,000 years difference. Io si kapsh Iranic triangle head?

I-M438 is more likely to be an Alpine/mountain related haplogroup as its big in the Swiss alps and thus found in and around the South East Europe mountains as well. You are very much a miseducated low IQ simpleton.

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M438 is simply the designation for the ancestral clade, no percentages in that, its descendant clades which are brought by Slavic speakers, some minor recent lineages from elsewhere but nothing significant.

R1a at 21% also in some area, straight from Poland. I wonder how much of this you seem to think is "Scythian".

Judging from your posting history, your IQ levels are below 60. Too fucking stupid and bluepilled at that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

Maybe I am missing something, I dont see that study. But I assumed its around 10% with another 10-15% r1a, from other studies I have seen. (about the same as Greece, who also generally resisted Slavicization in the middle ages) For ethnic purists, that is significant.

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What study? Look at map of I2a1b on first page. It is shown like most of S Albania has 30% of I2a1b. What is nonesense.
IDK about R1a, but i would say at max 10% I2a1b and 10% R1a, and really at max. IT is still unexplored area but its obvious that this map is not correct when showing most of S Albania having 25-30% I2a1b and more then anywhere in Macedonia. That is complete BS, and this thread is about that detail.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

I-M438 is both of those clades, the dominant one in Greece is I2a1b though, man. It appears there in the middle ages, i believe.

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There is no evidence of I2a-Din in Greece

It should have come through at least once on Battaglias studies

https://i.imgsafe.org/b64e9c9be1.jpg

I2a1* is the I2a1b-Din, bluepilled retardo. Shooting yourself in the foot again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

There is no evidence of I2a-Din in Greece

It should have come through at least once on Battaglias studies

https://i.imgsafe.org/b64e9c9be1.jpg

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Same map catgeorge linked, he cropped off the other ethnicities in the picture

Peaks in South Slavs:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...e-examined.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Same map catgeorge linked, he cropped off the other ethnicities in the picture

Peaks in South Slavs:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...e-examined.png

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Thats what he gets when he thinks he is smarter then J2brother

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

There is no evidence of I2a-Din in Greece

It should have come through at least once on Battaglias studies

https://i.imgsafe.org/b64e9c9be1.jpg

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There is evidence of it in Greece, I have a whole crop of 4th cousins on 23andme from Sparta who are are I2a Dinaric. It shows up as varying frequencies around Greece. The only thing that would keep it from showing up in Greece is lack of official testing. How many legitimate (and illegetimate) descendants of Stefan Dusan's nobles in Thessaly you think? Not to mention parts of Northern Greece was under the Bulgarians for what.. total of 400 years or something? Doesn't even include the 300 years of blackness following the crossing of the Danube by Avars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

There is evidence of it in Greece, I have a whole crop of 4th cousins on 23andme from Sparta who are are I2a Dinaric. It shows up as varying frequencies around Greece. The only thing that would keep it from showing up in Greece is lack of official testing. How many legitimate (and illegetimate) descendants of Stefan Dusan's nobles in Thessaly you think? Not to mention parts of Northern Greece was under the Bulgarians for what.. total of 400 years or something? Doesn't even include the 300 years of blackness following the crossing of the Danube by Avars.

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agree

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

There is evidence of it in Greece, I have a whole crop of 4th cousins on 23andme from Sparta who are are I2a Dinaric. It shows up as varying frequencies around Greece. The only thing that would keep it from showing up in Greece is lack of official testing. How many legitimate (and illegetimate) descendants of Stefan Dusan's nobles in Thessaly you think? Not to mention parts of Northern Greece was under the Bulgarians for what.. total of 400 years or something? Doesn't even include the 300 years of blackness following the crossing of the Danube by Avars.

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Seems like you are one of the few Greeks here that can discuss this in a logical manner without problems. I respect that.

I don't doubt external influence in Albanians, just that we come from a smaller sample of ancient populations, was more isolated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

I2a1* is the I2a1b-Din, bluepilled retardo. Shooting yourself in the foot again.

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It should be illegal to be as thick headed as you - all the head space you have and potential brain capacity usage I find it difficult to believe you use a nano 0.1% of it

I highlighted it for you so you wont get confused

https://i.imgsafe.org/b684c1fd5f.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

It should be illegal to be as thick headed as you - all the head space you have and potential brain capacity usage I find it difficult to believe you use a nano 0.1% of it

I highlighted it for you so you wont get confused

https://i.imgsafe.org/b684c1fd5f.png

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Hahahaha you just tried to make the ancestral clade "Greek" through paint, while the only relevant has been found there to be I2a1b-Din. :D

Your posts branched off into Raine levels of comedy awhile ago.

Find a new hobby.


I2a1b-Din is the only I2 clade in Greece, rest is as irrelevant as Gypsy y-dna H1, also J1 and G:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...e-examined.png

The only thickheaded retard here is you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ilir

I am happy you are enjoying it guys.

By the way when you do it alone i know it's called "intellectual masturbation" but when you are a couple what can it be the proper definition??

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Apparently, you feel like you are being raped. This is just discussion though.

Na zdravie, Brat!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Hahahaha you just tried to make the ancestral clade "Greek" through paint, while the only relevant has been found there to be I2a1b-Din. :D



The only thickheaded retard here is you.

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Not entirely convinced - Dalmatia has the highest I2a1 (55%) in the world where Republic of Ragusa was loosely Slavonic (Italian was the official language until 1808)

The Ragusan archives document, Speculum Maioris Consilii Rectores, lists all the persons that were involved in the Republic's government between September 1440 to January 1808. There were 4397 rectors elected; 2764 (63%) were from "old patrician" families: Gozze, Bona, Caboga, Cerva, Ghetaldi, Giorgi, Gradi, Pozza, Saraca, Sorgo, and Zamanya.

in the 17th century, 50% of the dukes and senators were from the following families: Bona, Gondola, Gozze, Menze, Sorgo.
in the 18th century, 56% of senators were from these families: Sorgo, Gozze, Zananya, Caboga, Giorgi.
in the last eight years of the Republic, 50% of dukes were from the Sorgo, Gozze, Gradi, Bona, or Ragnina families.

So how could Dalmatia have the highest frequency of I2a1 with the highest frequency of Latinic input?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Not entirely convinced - Dalmatia has the highest I2a1 (55%) in the world where Republic of Ragusa was loosely Slavonic (Italian was the official language until 1808)

The Ragusan archives document, Speculum Maioris Consilii Rectores, lists all the persons that were involved in the Republic's government between September 1440 to January 1808. There were 4397 rectors elected; 2764 (63%) were from "old patrician" families: Gozze, Bona, Caboga, Cerva, Ghetaldi, Giorgi, Gradi, Pozza, Saraca, Sorgo, and Zamanya.

in the 17th century, 50% of the dukes and senators were from the following families: Bona, Gondola, Gozze, Menze, Sorgo.
in the 18th century, 56% of senators were from these families: Sorgo, Gozze, Zananya, Caboga, Giorgi.
in the last eight years of the Republic, 50% of dukes were from the Sorgo, Gozze, Gradi, Bona, or Ragnina families.

So how could Dalmatia have the highest frequency of I2a1 with the highest frequency of Latinic input?

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Hercegovina has 70% I2a1b, then Muslim Bosnjaks go, and then maybe Dalmatia but i doubt that it las 55% as you say, i would say maybe little less..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Obviously you have a few loose screws in your head reflects some butthurtness.

Like saying you come from Nordics and Varangians projecting to Scandinavia - little insecure people. As if no one has seen you other than photos spammed all over the internet.

Well plenty of skeletons found in Sesklo and Franchthi

https://static-content.springer.com/..._Fig2_HTML.jpg

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:picard2:
Are you serious? Those are not ancient samples, rather from living humans collected from those sites.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

It should be illegal to be as thick headed as you - all the head space you have and potential brain capacity usage I find it difficult to believe you use a nano 0.1% of it

I highlighted it for you so you wont get confused

https://i.imgsafe.org/b684c1fd5f.png

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Hahahahaha. It's like me claiming, hey I am J2-M172 and my clade is 27800 years old (without revealing that further dowsntream I'm also M172>M102>M241>L283>etc...)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trojet

:picard2:
Are you serious? Those are not ancient samples, rather from living humans collected from those sites.



Hahahahaha. It's like me saulying, hey I am J2-M172 and my clade is 27800 years old (without revealing that further dowsntream I'm also M172>M102>M241>L283>etc...)

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Catgeorge gets the El-Retardo award. :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Not entirely convinced - Dalmatia has the highest I2a1 (55%) in the world where Republic of Ragusa was loosely Slavonic (Italian was the official language until 1808)

The Ragusan archives document, Speculum Maioris Consilii Rectores, lists all the persons that were involved in the Republic's government between September 1440 to January 1808. There were 4397 rectors elected; 2764 (63%) were from "old patrician" families: Gozze, Bona, Caboga, Cerva, Ghetaldi, Giorgi, Gradi, Pozza, Saraca, Sorgo, and Zamanya.

in the 17th century, 50% of the dukes and senators were from the following families: Bona, Gondola, Gozze, Menze, Sorgo.
in the 18th century, 56% of senators were from these families: Sorgo, Gozze, Zananya, Caboga, Giorgi.
in the last eight years of the Republic, 50% of dukes were from the Sorgo, Gozze, Gradi, Bona, or Ragnina families.

So how could Dalmatia have the highest frequency of I2a1 with the highest frequency of Latinic input?

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Founder effect. At least that is the case with similar Slovenian population., who show close relationship with Western Slavic groups (Poles, Slovaks)

Quote:

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Conclusion: Analysis of Y-chromosomal markers in five Slovenian regions revealed a diverse genetic landscape. Slovenian population display close genetic affiliations with West Slavic populations. The homogenous genetic strata of the West Slavic populations and the Slovenian population suggest the existence of a common ancestral Slavic population in central European region.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dema

Hercegovina has 70% I2a1b, then Muslim Bosnjaks go, and then maybe Dalmatia but i doubt that it las 55% as you say, i would say maybe little less..

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I am not talking about I2a1b I know thats the slavic subclade I am talking about I2a1 - Bosnians have 54% I2a1

Croatia mainland has 32% I2a1 some 30% less than Dalmatians -- neither M423 is Slavic nor carried by Slavic speakers as dopey points out as this is also found in Great Britain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

Founder effect. At least that is the case with similar Slovenian population., who show close relationship with Western Slavic groups (Poles, Slovaks)

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Not buying it - Ireland has some 5-10% I2a1 M423

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Not buying it - Ireland has some 5-10% I2a1 M423

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ha, more like 2-3% across all of British Isles, basically at a rate same as J1 in Denmark lol. C'mon Yorgaki, bro, let's be serious.

I2a1-L621 is a subclade of M423. Isn't that the subclade in discussion?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

ha, more like 2-3% across all of British Isles, basically at a rate same as J1 in Denmark lol. C'mon Yorgaki, bro, let's be serious.

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Depends on the sources I guess

https://i.imgsafe.org/b7e61d223c.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Not buying it - Ireland has some 5-10% I2a1 M423

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And how much of it belongs in the Dinaric (L621>CTS10228) subclade???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trojet

And how much of it belongs in the Dinaric (L621>CTS10228) subclade???

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ZERO

..and exactly my point that dopey is trying to make that all I2a1 is I2a-Din

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

ZERO

..and exactly my point that dopey is trying to make that all I2a1 is I2a-Din

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Well Balkan I2a1 almost all of it falls in the said subclade.... Therefore you can't really say they are the same, as the TMRCA of I-M423 is 13,700 ybp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

ZERO

..and exactly my point that dopey is trying to make that all I2a1 is I2a-Din

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But we are being specific, only this branch of I2a1 is identified as Slavic in origin. Not all I2a1 is Slavic in origin, but I2a1b2, defined by SNP L621 is.

http://s13.postimg.org/ossn8zu7r/I2a1b2a1.png

Origin in Poland 2200 years ago, also found in North Greece. There ya go.

family tree DNA project members who marked themselves on map belonging to this clade:

http://s25.postimg.org/rpfih2i67/map...w_22102015.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

But we are being specific, only this branch of I2a1 is identified as Slavic in origin. Not all I2a1 is Slavic in origin, but I2a1b2, defined by SNP L621 is.

http://s13.postimg.org/ossn8zu7r/I2a1b2a1.png

family tree DNA project members who marked themselves on map belonging to this clade:

http://s25.postimg.org/rpfih2i67/map...w_22102015.jpg

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You mean specific like this?

Some fathead cant keep up who it is with all the name changes..

Quote:

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m423 - all brought by Slavic speakers, same with its ancestral clade m438

Too much fat saturating in your brain has not made you realize this, catgeorge. All your posts reek of butthurt from Australia.

You shouldnt talk about Scandinavians when you plot closer to modern Lebanese. Typical fat bluepilled retard.

21% R1a str8 from Poland.

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:bounce:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

You mean specific like this?

Some fathead cant keep up who it is with all the name changes..



:bounce:

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One typo doesn't make it all wrong. Everything you wrote and believe in so far is wrong.

Anyway - I believe I2a was bought to Balkans via Sesklo.. Thessalian or Balcan neolithic expansion then meeting with Printed Cordium Pottery cultures that flipped to I2a1 somewhere in 3000 BC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Anyway - I believe I2a was bought to Balkans via Sesklo.. Thessalian or Balcan neolithic expansion then meeting with Printed Cordium Pottery cultures that flipped to I2a1 somewhere in 3000 BC

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Emphasis on * believe *- you believe it on faith and in spite of all evidence to the contrary. A DNA that mutated in 130BC in Poland cannot be related to Greek Neolithic. It is impossible. Yours is a milder obstinance than Laberia's, but obstinance nonetheless. Sigh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

Emphasis on * believe *- you believe it on faith and in spite of all evidence to the contrary. A DNA that mutated in 130BC in Poland cannot be related to Greek Neolithic. It is impossible. Yours is a milder obstinance than Laberia's, but obstinance nonetheless. Sigh.

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How do you know what the Balkan Neolithic expansion looked like? I + J is cro magnon off spring from 40,000 years ago. We know the Thessalian Neolithic culture expansion is a fact. don't fucking try to be smart ass to me again.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...a444cbe1f6.gif

catpussy's first time redpill in haplogroups :laugh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

How do you know what the Balkan Neolithic expansion looked like? I + J is cro magnon off spring from 40,000 years ago. We know the Thessalian Neolithic culture expansion is a fact. don't fucking try to be smart ass to me again.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...a444cbe1f6.gif

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No, I am repeating if this clade didn't exist yet in Balkan Neolithic, then how can its origin be there? It makes no sense. Are you being dense on purpose?

Dont give me this eupedia fantasy of Maciamo, who wants to Nordicize ancient Greece like a shithead all through MS Paint program.

categorge are you R1b-BY611? Dema told me :D

Catpussy :cool: