Yes, for sure I have. It's from my portuguese and south italian ancestors, since they intermixed with north africans from what I understand. I'm not aware of any ancestor that came directly from North Africa.Quote:
Originally Posted by jfgh676
Printable View
Yes, for sure I have. It's from my portuguese and south italian ancestors, since they intermixed with north africans from what I understand. I'm not aware of any ancestor that came directly from North Africa.Quote:
Originally Posted by jfgh676
South Italians score 0-2% NE African as far as I know. The same amount Ashkenazi Jews would score.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blemoir
I thought they scored higher. So my NA admixture is from the portuguese mostly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Bump for any potential new members :bump2:
Distance to: J.S.(French)
6.52469923 French
7.60161167 France_south
8.24820587 France_Central
8.91601368 Southwest_French
9.46554277 Spanish_Cantabria
9.71231177 Spanish_Cataluna
10.38442102 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.87896594 France_north-east
11.25215535 Spanish_Galicia
11.28945969 Spanish_Aragon
11.37175888 Pennsylvania_Dutch
11.50466862 Spanish
11.62449139 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
11.97215937 Italian_Aosta_Valley
12.00908823 France_south-west
12.15744628 Spanish_Valencia
12.19465457 Belgian
12.20428204 Portuguese
12.30683956 France_north-west
12.57774622 Spanish_Murcia
12.61691325 Swiss_German2
12.66334079 Flemish
12.85152131 Dutch_South
13.32647740 German_South
13.44856870 Swiss_German
Target: J.S.(French)
Distance: 2.1378% / 2.13778665
35.3 French_Basque
35.3 Swedish
22.7 Spanish_Aragon
3.3 Swiss_Italian
3.3 Yemenite_Jewish
0.1 Papuan
Target: J.S.(French)
Distance: 2.6618% / 2.66181095 | ADC: 0.25x RC
36.9 Dutch_Central
26.6 Spanish_Aragon
22.7 France_south-west
13.8 Southwest_French
This is the K13 for kit SRS8752864 from the Turkish study of 600+ samples being added to yfull. He is likely Pomak/Balkan Turk judging by his results. Sample is under analysis on yfull. His Y-DNA is R-L1029>Y39054. There is another Balkan Turk/Pomak in this branch with origin from Razgrad as well(not on yfull).
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y44160/
SRS8752864,20.46,23.81,15.94,12.25,20.01,2.54,0,0, 3.67,0.77,0.56,0,0
Target: SRS8752864
Distance: 1.1255% / 1.12548512 | ADC: 0.25x RC
38.7 Bulgaria_Northcentral
24.0 Pomak_Greece
23.9 Bulgaria_Northeastern
9.3 Turk_Makedonya
4.1 Selkup
Is Dutch-Central some kind of Belgian-Walloon-like cluster? By the way, there is neither Belgian/Walloon coordinate nor French-North in the K13 spreadsheet.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.S.
Those have been added to the original spreadsheet by ...who knowsQuote:
Originally Posted by J.S.
Dutch_Central looks very close to North Dutch, barely 1% difference on the main components:
Dutch_Central,49.50,25.39,11.62,4.77,3.79,1.37,0.9 5,0.45,0.46,0.65,0.47,0.24,0.27
Dutch_North,50.24,26.40,10.76,4.82,3.25,0.77,0.88, 0.36,0.55,0.70,0.49,0.31,0.42
The thing is you are not 1/4 Aragon, so it has to compensate with something quite northern. Either Swede or North Dutch like, but you might have something SW/Basque like overall.
Similar effect with my mom, she s not almost half Basque and neither half Norwegian/Pole or what have you.
Target: Petalpusher_mother(French)
Distance: 1.3961% / 1.39611400
42.7 French_Basque
24.8 Norwegian
18.2 South_Polish
5.7 Georgian_imereti
5.3 Greek_Northern-Thrace
3.3 Southwest_Finnish
It's really mathematical randomess how much these models are gonna polarize themselves or not, like in regular oracles.
I think so too but, i do not have the mathematical basics to explain/understand it as for PCA and distance discrepancies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petalpusher
Born and raised in England, parents are both Irish:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 47.63
2 Baltic 26
3 West_Med 12.78
4 West_Asian 8.26
5 East_Med 3.14
6 Red_Sea 1.55
7 South_Asian 0.47
8 Amerindian 0.16
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 North_German 3.16
2 North_Dutch 3.71
3 Danish 4.2
4 Orcadian 4.92
5 Irish 5.1
6 Southeast_English 5.47
7 Norwegian 5.53
8 West_Scottish 6.12
9 Southwest_English 6.33
10 South_Dutch 6.58
11 Swedish 6.62
12 West_German 7.29
13 Austrian 10.76
14 East_German 11.16
15 North_Swedish 12.23
16 French 12.67
17 Hungarian 15.47
18 Southwest_Finnish 19.73
19 Spanish_Cataluna 20.31
20 Croatian 20.65
Irish ranks 5th. And I'm closer to Danish and other germanic groups for some reason.
Creoda added Dutch regional averages iirc based on fully Dutch kits with family trees he collected, you can trust his work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petalpusher
You have bit lower North Atlantic and bit higher Baltic, West Asian and East Med than Irish average, that's why you are pulled east towards Germanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooter
By the way, with which company did you test? I noticed new versions of Myheritage and 23andme have eastern pull due to lower snp count.
I think some were added before, like Belgian never existed in K13/K15 and replaced S.Dutch for some reasons. Except no Belgians cluster here if you look at our pca's (because it's indeed S.Dutch). Provence is completely wrong, nobody cluster there either (it's right next to Veneto and Lombardy)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Im sure the new ones are more serious and legit averages if Creoda made them altough the difference between central and north dutch seems anecdotical, like two siblings or neighbours, but why not. What im not sure about are the old ones where somebody renamed/swapped academic samples.
Thanks Feiichy but the Dutch averages are created mostly from academic samples that Peterski sent me, along with some kits I've collected :thumb001:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Even better :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
Hmm, I'm not sure who made French averages, I think it was Peterski (could be wrong), so maybe he'll know more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petalpusher
No, the Dutch samples are academic, Piotr uploaded them. And they are quite fishy, some were like 2-3% SSA and/or East Asian. For Dodecad I had to eliminate nearly half of them for said reasons. So D K12b doesn't have Dutch_North and South, only one Dutch average.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
You can see Creoda wrote he added kits he collected into these averages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
These look normal/good IMO. But weird if Peterski included odd samples like that.
He didn't include them into anything, he just ran them through the program and then added to a spreadsheet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Don't you follow?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
I don't think they're fishy but they're too low res, leading to weird non-Euro scores, so I had to remove 42 or so with too much non-Euro by my judgment. But as you see can the averages still have a little too much, that'll be eliminated with more real kits. Overall the averages are pretty solid, more importantly they're better than the old ones. The old South Dutch was too Southern shifted, more like score of Belgians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.S.
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 47.38
2 West_Med 23.99
3 Baltic 15.95
4 East_Med 7.55
5 Red_Sea 2.78
Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + North_Swedish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.062119
2 French + French_Basque + Spanish_Aragon + Swedish @ 3.069512
3 French_Basque + North_Swedish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.156298
4 French + French_Basque + Norwegian + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.214273
5 French + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Southwest_French @ 3.236362. probably the more accurate
6 French + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.246606
7 French + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.262996
8 French + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.266667
9 French_Basque + North_Swedish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.270608
10 French + French_Basque + Orcadian + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.279502
11 French_Basque + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish @ 3.281378
12 French + French_Basque + North_Dutch + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.283484
13 French + French_Basque + Orcadian + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.289010
14 French + French_Basque + North_Dutch + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.293594
15 Danish + French + French_Basque + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.295177
16 Danish + French + French_Basque + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.304563
17 French + French_Basque + Southwest_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.318936
18 French_Basque + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish @ 3.319821
19 French_Basque + Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish @ 3.325228
20 French_Basque + North_Swedish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.329747
Latvian on K13 looks bit drifted compared to Lithuanian/Estonian. I don't know is that normal, it looks like you expect otherwise but somehow such distances towards neighbours suprise me, considering there are no natural barriers in that small region.
Distance to: Latvian
5.26434231 Lithuanian
10.18215596 Belarusian_Minsk
10.24887799 Estonian
10.39410410 Belorussian
11.19739255 Russian_Smolensk
11.62074008 Russian_Kostroma
11.68404468 Russian_Northern_Dvina
12.06270285 Russian_Kargopol
12.16157884 Russian_average
12.29722326 East_Finnish
13.26298986 Russian_Southwest
13.63084003 Ukrainian_Belgorod
13.72548360 Mordovian
14.15416546 Finnish
14.58739524 Polish
14.88763245 Ukrainian
15.09202770 Polish_Kielce
16.15092567 Polish_Masuria
18.69645688 South_Polish
19.35460410 Southwest_Finnish
19.75391354 Sorb_Lusatia
20.11712206 Moldova_Ukrainian
21.04457887 Ukrainian_Galicia
23.59879446 Ukrainian_Carpathian
23.96933249 Slovak
What are you basing this conclusion on, that S.Dutch was too southern shifted? it was somewhere between West Germans and England, that sounds normal to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
I don't know who did this exactly but this is crazy. If let's say, i would find the northern Greece sample too south, im gonna take an Albanian sample and rename it north Greece. That's insane and not a scientific method, especially as they were legit acamedic samples in the first place.
23andme with a V5.9 update.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
I'm thinking about ordering an AncestryDNA and comparing them.
Than I def. think V5 chip pulled you east (MyHeritage did same to me compared to other test with more snps). Ancestry is good option, but you can try to convert your 23andme raw data to V3 as well (V3 is more reliable).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooter
I'm basing it on results from collected kits, and common sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petalpusher
Gedmatch South Dutch average:
South_Dutch,44.59,22.22,15.74,6.01,7.37,1.47,1.05, 0.20,0.84,0.24,0.02,0.09,0.16
Mixed Belgian average from 20 collected kits:
Belgian,45.18,22.39,15.38,5.53,7.38,1.24,0.92,0.25 ,0.11,0.55,0.45,0.39,0.15
New Dutch South average:
Dutch_South,45.99,23.41,15.11,5.15,5.60,1.30,1.03, 0.36,0.54,0.52,0.29,0.34,0.30
As you can see the old South Dutch average is more Southern than the collected Belgian kits, that's not normal!
I don't know what you're on about with the rest.
Also the Eurogenes Southeast and Southwest English, and Irish averages were pretty inaccurate too. Whether or not they were academic (I doubt the Irish one was), they were just wrong.
The Lithuanian and Estonian are both from the original spreadsheet whereas the Latvian was added by someone. Some Baltic individuals can score 60% Baltic but some Lithuanians are only in the low 50s. For Dodecad I found a few kits with Lithuanian and Latvian names and used them for the averages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Okay, I hope the generic Dutch for Dodecad is good enough. It is modeled as ca. 60% NW German and 40% Belgian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
All it shows is the Belgians collected were like S.Dutch, which is not that crazy, they are random people we don't know anything about for sure, people label themselves how they want on gedmatch/gedcom/forums and many may have ancestry from both sides they don't even know about. The 2 Belgians we have here don't cluster with it so that's a problem, far from it even. "I find it too south" isn't a valid or scientific argument to discard academic samples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
Im talking about the K15 sample which was plain and simple renamed, not a new sample, just falsified, possibly under the same logic.
Original samples vs "updated"
https://i.postimg.cc/YqgCfbNL/K15Vdb.jpg
Now i would find W.German too south compared to Belgians. We could go on and on all night like that...
That 'update' (which was just falsely renaming as something else on an MS paint map) has nothing to do with the updated vahaduo averages people have been making on this forum, based on real samples/kits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petalpusher
The old averages haven't been discarded, they're still there to use. If you think the old South Dutch average and others are more accurate that's up to you, but you're wrong. Being supposedly academic doesn't make them infallible. I agree however that the updated Provence average is ridiculous, but Peterski made the French averages and had his own logic for it.
The vahaduos seem fine in general. Well i missed that "detail" about the Provence sample, that explains it then...Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
Actually the distance between Latvians and Estonians should be even higher, because for example the FST distance between the Siberian and Baltic components is about 6 times higher than the FST distance between the Baltic and North_Atlantic components. But Vahaduo doesn't take that into account.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
The heatmap below shows the 32 populations that are the closest to the Latvian average in the K13 updated spreadsheet (when not accounting for FST distances between the components).
The reason why Latvians are far from their neighbors on your list is that Latvians have a huge amount of the Baltic component. I don't know if it's because Latvians were used as a reference for the Baltic component.
https://i.ibb.co/L54PWKR/latvian-closest-k13.png
For the clustering, I multiplied the matrix of population percentages with a matrix of the FST distances between the components. Otherwise Finns didn't even end up in the same cluster with North Russians.
Code:library(pheatmap)
library(vegan) # for reorder.hclust
library(colorspace) # for hex
t=read.csv("https://pastebin.com/raw/7CMyn57j",row.names=1,check.names=F)
pick=names(head(sort(as.matrix(dist(t))["Latvian",]),32))
t=t[pick,]
fst=as.matrix(as.dist(read.csv(row.names=1,check.names=F,text=",North_Atlantic,Baltic,West_Med,West_Asian,East_Med,Red_Sea,South_Asian,East_Asian,Siberian,Amerindian,Oceanian,Northeast_African,Sub-Saharan
North_Atlantic,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Baltic,19,,,,,,,,,,,,
West_Med,28,36,,,,,,,,,,,
West_Asian,26,32,36,,,,,,,,,,
East_Med,26,35,28,21,,,,,,,,,
Red_Sea,52,62,50,48,39,,,,,,,,
South_Asian,64,65,76,57,60,82,,,,,,,
East_Asian,114,114,122,110,111,127,76,,,,,,
Siberian,111,111,123,109,112,130,83,56,,,,,
Amerindian,138,137,154,138,144,161,120,113,105,,,,
Oceanian,179,181,187,177,176,191,146,166,177,217,,,
Northeast_African,122,127,124,116,108,121,113,145,151,185,203,,
Sub-Saharan,146,150,150,140,135,141,133,164,170,204,220,41,")))
d=dist(as.matrix(t)%*%fst)
d2=as.matrix(d)
maxdist=which(d2==max(d2))[1];hc=reorder(hclust(d),d2[,maxdist%/%nrow(d2)+1]-d2[,maxdist%%nrow(d2)])
# hc=reorder(hclust(d),d2[,"East_Finnish"]-d2[,"Bosniak_Bosnia"])
t=t[,order(colMeans(t))]
pheatmap::pheatmap(
t,
filename="a.png",
cluster_cols=F,
clustering_callback=function(...)hc,
legend=F,
cellwidth=16,
cellheight=16,
treeheight_row=80,
treeheight_col=80,
fontsize=8,
border_color=NA,
display_numbers=T,
number_format="%.0f",
fontsize_number=7,
number_color="black",
# breaks=seq(0,100,100/256),
colorRampPalette(hex(HSV(c(210,210,130,60,40,20,0),c(0,rep(.5,6)),1)))(256)
)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petalpusher
TITLE OF THE PROJECT: Population Genomic Diversity of France (POPGEN)
Participants will be recruited among CONSTANCES cohort volunteers who agreed transmission of their data and provided information about their parents and grandparents year and place of birth. Among all those individuals, 15,000 will be randomly selected according the following criteria:
- The place of birth of the four grandparents is known and clustered in a restricted geographic area,
- Homogeneous distribution in metropolitan France.
https://www.constances.fr/_assets/_pdf/POPGEN.pdf
i suggest you and everyone interested in the French genetic diversity to track the progress of this study.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.S.
There is no point in posting this, the vast majority of people on apricity are ignorant of French genetics and prefer to read unscientific nonsense created by a Eurasian (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ygonal-diagram) which states that EEF = wog and less EEF + more "siberian" = less wog
It's totally stupid (besides, he forget the other contributions, like the Neolithic levant, iran farmer, etc.), but that's the mentality of the people of Apricity (98%).
cancel
Admix Results (sorted):
#PopulationPercent1
Baltic 47.13
North_Atlantic 35.38
Siberian 9.06
West_Med 5.46
Amerindian 1.14
Oceanian 1.03
East_Asian 0.81
Single Population Sharing:
#Population (source)Distance1
Finnish 3.75
East_Finnish 5.18
Southwest_Finnish 6.61
Estonian 7.35
Kargopol_Russian 11.15
Belorussian 11.57
Estonian_Polish 12.02
Polish 12.56
Lithuanian 12.57
Russian_Smolensk 12.73
Southwest_Russian 13.76
South_Polish 13.98
La_Brana-1 14.22
Ukrainian 14.28
North_Swedish 14.29
Erzya 14.83
Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.98
Ukrainian_Lviv 15.15
East_German 19.81
Croatian 20.22
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance1
97.7%Finnish+2.3%Evens@3.122
97.7%Finnish+2.3%Evenki@3.143
97.6%Finnish+2.4%Dolgan@3.144
97.7%Finnish+2.3%Yakut@3.195
97.7%Finnish+2.3%Koryak@3.246
58.7%East_Finnish+41.3%Southwest_Finnish@3.247
97.2%Finnish+2.8%Selkup@3.278
77.6%East_Finnish+22.4%North_Swedish@3.279
97.9%Finnish+2.1%Oroqen@3.2810
97.2%Finnish+2.8%Ket@3.2811
97.7%Finnish+2.3%Chukchi@3.312
97.8%Finnish+2.2%Tuvinian@3.3913
85.8%East_Finnish+14.2%Norwegian@3.414
98%Finnish+2%Buryat@3.4215
88%East_Finnish+12%West_Scottish@3.4416
87.4%East_Finnish+12.6%Orcadian@3.4417
84.3%East_Finnish+15.7%Swedish@3.4918
97.9%Finnish+2.1%Altaian@3.4919
98.4%Finnish+1.6%East_Greenlander@3.5220
88%East_Finnish+12%Irish@3.53
You have the highest Siberian percent out of Finnish users so far:Quote:
Originally Posted by Julkka
https://i.ibb.co/6wJPqct/a.png