Pashtuns: A genetically South Asian ethnicity wrapped in self hate(?)

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Originally Posted by Dynamo

A message to the OP: you talk about genetics? Here is a AFGHAN PASHTUN resukts: South asian? Gimme a break. The Pathans in the cluster which you have shown had South indian admixture more than 30%!!! Afghanistan is the homelabd of afghans, sI don't give ME that Pathan homeland bullcrap. Btw this guy was nowhere near the Indian cluster, he was much closer to the iranian, adgyei Georgian turkish cluster.


Paternal: J1
Maternal: M30D1

Ethnicity: Afghan Pashtun

34.19% Baloch
26.42% Caucasian
14.71% South Indian
12.85% Northeast Euro
3.15% Southwest Asian
2.72% Mediterranean
2.11% Siberian
1.15% Northeast Asian
1.09% Beringian
0.97% American
0.59% West African
0.02% Papuan
0.02% Southeast Asian
0% San
0% Pygmy
0% East African

K=15

29.80% Caucasian
12.92% Balkanic
11.25% South-Central-Asian
11.11% West Altaic
7.16% Balto-Slavic
6.36% East Mediterranean
5.12% Uralic Permic
4.23% East Altaic
4.15% Volga-Uralic
3.65% Celto-Germanic
3.07% Balto Finnic
1.07% Paleo-North-European
0.07% Balkanic-2
0.04% Iberian
0.00% West-Mediterranean

K=12

36.79% Caucasian
14.54% Volga-Uralic
11.87% South-Central Asian
9.72% Paleo-Mediterranean
8.21% East-European
5.43% Uralic-Permic
4.38% Asian
4.36% Celto-Germanic
3.22% Balto-Finnic
1.25% Paleo-North-Euroepan
0.21% Paleo-Balkanic
0.03% Iberian

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You post a random example to represent a whole population of about 50 million Pashtuns? The same reasoning like: ''I saw a bird with gold stripes so all birdz must be striped with gold'' Anyway the sample you posted is 34.19% Baloch (the same as ANI aka Ancestral North Indian), which peaks in Baloch, and 14.71% South Indian, which itself is a combination of ANI and ASI (Ancestral South Indian). I'm sure he will cluster close to any Northwest South Asian population as well, such as the Punjabi Jatts. I sense alot of frustration reading your comments. No one said Afghans (nationality) are South Asians. Afghanistan is a South-Central Asian nation. The Pashtuns however, (ethnic group) who's majority live in Pakistan and the 2nd largest amount in Afghanistan, are genetically a South Asian population as I clearly demonstrated on the first page. All you're giving me as a response is PoV and merely personal, non scientific opinions. Not one paper, not one PCA plot, no nothing valuable reading was posted by you on behalf of the fact that you don't agree with the hard scientific facts posted on the first page. If the Pashtuns are not South Asian GENETICALLY (as in the fact that they clearly cluster with other South Asians), then so would also the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhis, Himachalis etc not be South Asian. Which would be an obvious fallacy.

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Originally Posted by Dynamo

Well genius in what wat South asian? Now you know those were pakistani Pathans who God knows what their forefathers married, what now? Afghab Pashtuns are majority west asian, less South Asian thsn the ones you've hat wet dreams over. Burst your bubble?? Aww that's cute.

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So basically you state that Afghan Pashtuns are significantly different from Pakistani Pashtuns? Well, I'd like to see the paper that shows that. Apart from perhaps a mere minor pull towards Central Asia due to geography, I don't expect anything to be remotely different from them as compared to Pakistani Pashtuns.

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Originally Posted by scytsar

Anyway I literally don't see what the point OP is trying to make here, he's essentially trying to say afghans are south asian. Go ask south asians what they think of us and they'll literally tell you they consider us the same as arabs and iranians i.e. completely foreign. Hell we're not even 'desi' by any measure. There's literally nothing wrong with having south asian genes (and even then it hardly has an effect on phenotype considering most of us look iranic and quite distinct from any population in india other than kashmiris and SOME punjabis) but what is wrong is to say we're south asian culturally or linguistically which simply isn't true other than perhaps the fact that we tend to like bollywood.

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Read again. I said the Pashtun ethnic group are clearly South Asian genetically, as they are very very close to other northwest South Asian populations aka the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachalis,. etc. The plots and data shown on the first page confirm this as well. They're part of the South Asian genetic group for sure and there's nothing wrong with it. Pashtun culture however, is much closer to Central Asia than South Asia. The nation of Afghanistan (I never said a word about it), is a South-Central Asian nation.

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Originally Posted by Truthbetold

Read again. I said the Pashtun ethnic group are clearly South Asian genetically, as they are very very close to other northwest South Asian populations aka the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachalis,. etc. The plots and data shown on the first page confirm this as well. They're part of the South Asian genetic group for sure and there's nothing wrong with it. Pashtun culture however, is much closer to Central Asia than South Asia. The nation of Afghanistan (I never said a word about it), is a South-Central Asian nation.

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Most of Pakistani pashtuns barely pass in Pakistan punjab, so forget about any region of India except Kashmiri muslims in IoK. Indian punjabis are even more bihari type looking on average then Pakistani punjabis.

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Originally Posted by Truthbetold

Read again. I said the Pashtun ethnic group are clearly South Asian genetically, as they are very very close to other northwest South Asian populations aka the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachalis,. etc. The plots and data shown on the first page confirm this as well. They're part of the South Asian genetic group for sure and there's nothing wrong with it. Pashtun culture however, is much closer to Central Asia than South Asia. The nation of Afghanistan (I never said a word about it), is a South-Central Asian nation.

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just stop trolling .Pashtuns have no south asian identity because they are and were always foreigners in south asia.Actually many pashtuns in non-tribal areas of pakistan are local pashtunized dardic people or have mixed with local indian populations so this samples are not very useful and say nothing about tribal pashtuns of pakistan and afghan pashtuns.They are genetically in no way south asians and they mostly carry the y-dna haplogroups r1a(50-60%), Q(10-20%),J,G and L.Only the y-dna haplogroup L has maybe a south asian origin but all other have either a central asian or west asian origin

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Originally Posted by Truthbetold

So basically you state that Afghan Pashtuns are significantly different from Pakistani Pashtuns? Well, I'd like to see the paper that shows that. Apart from perhaps a mere minor pull towards Central Asia due to geography, I don't expect anything to be remotely different from them as compared to Pakistani Pashtuns.

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70% of pashtuns live in Pakistan. Afghanistan is majority mongoloid nation. There will be obvious differences between both groups. But lots of similarities as well, especially in eastern Afghanistan pashtuns and Pakistani pashtuns.

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Originally Posted by back_up

Most of Pakistani pashtuns barely pass in Pakistan punjab, so forget about any region of India except Kashmiri muslims in IoK. Indian punjabis are even more bihari type looking on average then Pakistani punjabis.

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:)

Here another chart from a scientific paper published in 2013, confirming the story again as well. The Pakistani Pashtuns fall clear cut in the Indus Basin (South Asia) cluster, while the Afghan Pashtuns are extremely close to it. One sample lies deeper into the Central Asian cluster, most likely as a deviating example. However, even then, drawing a horizontal line on the axis it still makes them closer to the Indus Basin cluster, than the Caucasus or Middle East cluster, which is totally obivous as well looking at geography and history. Keep also in mind that the largest population of ethnic Pashtuns in the world live in Pakistan, not in Afghanistan.


http://i62.tinypic.com/e0qqtx.png

Analysis from the paper the graph is from:

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(...) Pashtun are close to the Indo-Aryan cluster, and Hazara are, as expected, near to the Altaic cluster.

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source: Afghan Hindu Kush: Where Eurasian Sub-Continent Gene Flows Converge. MC: Julie Di Cristofaro, Erwan Pennarun. Published October 18, 2013.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0076748

So we can make three hypothesises here based on some of the comments in this thread.

- Some Pashtun posters don't like the fact that they cluster with other Northwestern South Asians, despite the multiple charts, plots, PCA's, and papers posted.

- They don't agree with the hard scientific facts that are posted because they would rather see themselves cluster firmly with Central Asians, West Asians, you name it, for whatever reason.

- They want to present this as ''trolling'' by twisting my words to make it seem as if I said that the Pashtuns are a South Asian/''Desi'' people. (Which they are CLEARLY not). I only said they are genetically South Asian, as they cluster very closely/overlap with Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, etc (who are South Asians/Desi's), and all which the hard scientific material posted confirms. Overal the Pashtuns (taking genetics, culture, history etc into account) are a South-Central Asian people.

Karachi itself has the biggest urban Pashtun population in the world. Afghanistan is a Central Asian nation and the Mongoloid admixture of Afghan Tajiks is totally underrated. North Afghanistan is entirely Turko-Persian while South Afghanistan is more Pashto-Persian

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Truthbetold

Here another chart from a scientific paper published in 2013, confirming the story again as well. The Pakistani Pashtuns fall clear cut in the Indus Basin (South Asia) cluster, while the Afghan Pashtuns are extremely close to it. One sample lies deeper into the Central Asian cluster, most likely as a deviating example. However, even then, drawing a horizontal line on the axis it still makes them closer to the Indus Basin cluster, than the Caucasus or Middle East cluster, which is totally obivous as well looking at geography and history. Keep also in mind that the largest population of ethnic Pashtuns in the world live in Pakistan, not in Afghanistan.

http://i62.tinypic.com/e0qqtx.png

Analysis from the paper the graph is from:



source: Afghan Hindu Kush: Where Eurasian Sub-Continent Gene Flows Converge. MC: Julie Di Cristofaro, Erwan Pennarun. Published October 18, 2013.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0076748

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it doesnt matter were most pashtuns live today because they orginated in modern afghanistan. Also this study shows that pashtuns belong to the central asian cluster so i dont get your point here.Just explain me why the dominant y-dna haplogroups of modern pashtuns r1a(50-60%),Q(10-20%),J and G have all a non south asian origin