Esas son G25 también?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ard 2.0
Postea las coordenadas, y ya de paso puedes hacer el average, que me han dicho que sabes hacerlos muy bien.:rolleyes:
Printable View
Esas son G25 también?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ard 2.0
Postea las coordenadas, y ya de paso puedes hacer el average, que me han dicho que sabes hacerlos muy bien.:rolleyes:
Esas son G25 también?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ard 2.0
Postea las coordenadas, y ya de paso puedes hacer el average, que me han dicho que sabes hacerlos muy bien.:rolleyes:
Las ha posteado RodericoQuote:
Originally Posted by gixajo
Portugal_K13_sim,0.0992,0.146075,0.0342125,-0.013775,0.0435625,-0.008375,-0.00425,0.0018625,0.0261125,0.0337625,-0.0008375,0.00565,-0.0100625,-0.009275,0.0043125,-0.000775,0.0016,-0.0030875,-0.0039,-0.000925,0.000125,-0.002825,0.0002125,-0.0061125,-0.0003875
Quote:
R10487_K13_sim,0.1218,0.1482,0.0527,0.0051,0.0521,-0.0014,-0.0001,0.0031,0.023,0.0315,-0.0022,0.0087,-0.0153,-0.0058,0.0031,0.0031,-0.0002,0.0019,0.0004,-0.0029,0.0036,0.0006,-0.0043,-0.0124,-0.0038
R10494_K13_sim,0.0853,0.1385,0.0276,-0.0241,0.0408,-0.0178,-0.0059,0.0041,0.0275,0.0343,-0.0007,0.006,-0.0053,-0.0112,0.0108,0.0067,0.0111,-0.0105,-0.0086,0.004,-0.0016,-0.0069,0.0046,-0.0062,-0.0037
R10499_K13_sim,0.1258,0.1549,0.0412,-0.0142,0.0513,-0.0095,-0.0012,0.0038,0.0221,0.0404,-0.0001,0.0044,-0.0138,-0.0052,-0.0056,-0.0029,0.0036,0.0015,0.0059,-0.0005,0.0022,0.0013,-0.0045,-0.007,0.0009
R10501_K13_sim,0.1012,0.141,0.0312,-0.006,0.0378,-0.0017,-0.0043,-0.0003,0.026,0.0284,-0.002,0.0037,-0.0117,-0.0111,0.0046,-0.005,-0.002,-0.0019,-0.0036,0.0011,0.001,-0.0046,0.0015,-0.0051,0.003
R10502_K13_sim,0.1019,0.1476,0.0302,-0.0123,0.042,-0.0118,-0.003,0.0013,0.0216,0.031,0.0005,0.0054,-0.0106,-0.011,0.0066,0.0009,0.0041,-0.0053,-0.003,-0.0006,-0.0021,-0.0037,-0.0008,-0.0053,-0.0008
R10503_K13_sim,0.0449,0.1449,0.0153,-0.0409,0.0337,-0.0147,-0.0119,-0.0004,0.0338,0.0324,-0.0005,0.004,0.0008,-0.0088,0.0056,-0.0051,-0.0004,-0.0062,-0.0157,-0.0039,-0.0056,-0.0088,0.008,-0.0052,0.0005
R10507_K13_sim,0.1035,0.1428,0.0433,-0.0024,0.0462,-0.0005,-0.0069,0.0003,0.0278,0.0317,-0.0007,0.0084,-0.0125,-0.0141,0.0082,-0.0021,-0.0027,-0.003,-0.0052,-0.0019,0.0022,0.0016,-0.0026,-0.0043,0.0002
R10508_K13_sim,0.1092,0.1507,0.0322,-0.0154,0.0446,-0.0096,-0.0007,0.003,0.0271,0.0404,-0.001,0.0046,-0.0121,-0.007,0.0012,-0.0018,-0.0007,-0.0012,-0.0014,-0.0027,0.0013,-0.0021,-0.0002,-0.0034,0.0006
A few are still missing, i think they are 13 in total.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ard 2.0
"Portugal" should be fine for simplicity, but it will be like calling the other samples "Spanish". Yeah i would call them West Iberia IA or some of the names you are suggesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by gixajo
Ya, me refiero a las que hay disponibles. Aun faltan unas cuantasQuote:
Originally Posted by Damião de Góis
Could you share the model btw?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ard 2.0
Sure
Quote:
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I0707,0.122929,0.184826,0.001886 ,-0.110144,0.054779,-0.048527,0.00141,-0.011769,0.036201,0.08474,0.011205,0.016335,-0.021704,0.002615,-0.038409,-0.014187,0.022817,0.00114,0.012947,-0.002751,-0.011979,0.009645,-0.008627,0.001566,-0.001676
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I0708,0.119514,0.173656,-0.003017,-0.101745,0.042469,-0.046854,-0.00094,-0.012692,0.021066,0.074717,0.009419,0.009142,-0.017691,0.000963,-0.041938,-0.007955,0.024121,0.000633,0.015209,-0.013882,-0.022336,0.008903,-0.012448,-0.012652,-0.007305
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I0709,0.119514,0.19092,0.008674,-0.108206,0.050163,-0.044065,-0.00282,-0.003923,0.038655,0.088202,0.006983,0.012289,-0.023488,0.001789,-0.042345,-0.023999,0.002347,-0.003674,0.011941,-0.019759,-0.006239,0.012242,-0.000616,-0.00723,-0.002994
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I0723,0.118376,0.178733,0.009805 ,-0.103037,0.057241,-0.05773,0.003525,0.000462,0.041518,0.080548,0.0016 24,0.004946,-0.027056,-0.005643,-0.043702,-0.006762,0.03729,0.00152,0.017975,-0.009254,-0.015473,0.002968,0.006779,-0.00012,-0.006227
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I0724,0.117238,0.168578,0.018856 ,-0.10013,0.052933,-0.047969,-0.00094,-0.004384,0.031088,0.075446,0.008931,0.01139,-0.017691,-0.003303,-0.045059,0.001989,0.041853,0.012922,0.020363,-0.009755,-0.018717,0.004699,-0.007518,-0.001928,-0.008023
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I0726,0.120652,0.180764,0.00264,-0.104653,0.053548,-0.054663,-0.005875,-0.002308,0.035383,0.088749,0.009743,0.015586,-0.027651,0.006881,-0.040716,-0.037655,-0.001825,0.002914,0.0225,-0.015382,-0.013351,0.007666,-0.004683,0.00253,0.006945
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I0727,0.114961,0.185842,0.004525 ,-0.103683,0.036314,-0.053547,-0.00141,-0.008077,0.031088,0.077633,0.005846,0.01109,-0.031813,0.00055,-0.056052,-0.010607,0.022817,0.009122,0.032807,-0.015007,-0.017968,0.005441,-0.016022,-0.007953,0.008023
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I0736,0.119514,0.183811,0.006788 ,-0.091732,0.049855,-0.049921,-0.0047,-0.006,0.04295,0.077815,0.012829,0.013338,-0.020961,-0.011423,-0.04058,0.005701,0.033248,-0.007475,0.007793,-0.007003,-0.016097,0.006306,-0.005916,-0.000964,-0.007544
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I0744,0.119514,0.186857,0.009428 ,-0.107883,0.058472,-0.052989,-0.00987,-0.01223,0.03027,0.082371,0.010393,0.01139,-0.031813,0.003441,-0.048045,-0.011668,0.022426,0.000633,0.005279,-0.007253,-0.012852,-0.000124,-0.004683,0.002289,0.001796
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I0745,0.118376,0.178733,-0.002263,-0.098838,0.049548,-0.046575,-0.010105,-0.002538,0.036814,0.075628,0.010068,0.014237,-0.017542,0.00812,-0.035966,-0.020949,0.005346,0.006334,0.020489,-0.014382,-0.017095,0.008037,0.001356,-0.009278,-0.004191
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I0746,0.120652,0.180764,0.011691 ,-0.093024,0.048317,-0.043507,-0.012691,-0.010615,0.034565,0.078726,0.010393,0.009591,-0.023786,0.006606,-0.048316,-0.027844,0.005607,0.004054,0.012947,-0.017383,-0.013102,0.011005,-0.006532,-0.005543,-0.002036
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I1096,0.120652,0.184826,0.008297 ,-0.101745,0.051702,-0.044344,-0.005405,-0.003692,0.039473,0.0831,0.010718,0.017385,-0.02438,0.006331,-0.043702,-0.0179,0.025946,-0.00076,0.012821,-0.005878,-0.015722,0.00507,-0.005793,0.007832,-0.016406
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I1097,0.120652,0.18178,-0.001886,-0.106591,0.054472,-0.048527,-0.00611,-0.007615,0.038246,0.084922,0.008769,0.014687,-0.022894,0.000413,-0.048859,-0.006629,0.021383,0.003421,0.013952,-0.015257,-0.013975,0.005441,-0.011462,-0.009158,-0.002515
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I1098,0.114961,0.179749,-0.004148,-0.092701,0.040931,-0.045459,-0.001175,-0.010846,0.030883,0.068703,0.009743,0.007044,-0.019623,0.000688,-0.044381,-0.001326,0.032987,0.003294,0.006788,-0.001501,-0.01148,0.007914,0.007025,-0.002771,-0.00958
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I1099,0.111547,0.19092,0.001508,-0.0969,0.055395,-0.04518,0.003525,-0.010615,0.037223,0.077997,0.006171,0.01124,-0.020515,0.00289,-0.039902,-0.016309,0.021644,0.00266,0.013324,-0.007504,-0.003868,0.002844,0.002588,-0.003012,-0.006347
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I1100,0.112685,0.17264,-0.001131,-0.084949,0.049855,-0.054384,-0.00705,-0.002308,0.042132,0.088749,-0.003573,0.008692,-0.02557,-0.006881,-0.040173,-0.00769,0.031553,-0.00266,0.007793,-0.01063,-0.023708,-0.00136,0.003574,-0.003253,-0.001557
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I1101,0.114961,0.179749,0.006411 ,-0.100776,0.054779,-0.043786,-0.00094,-0.000462,0.042541,0.078544,0.005684,0.008692,-0.023042,0.007432,-0.034744,-0.010209,0.01682,0.003927,0.018729,-0.006378,-0.020713,0.004575,-0.000616,-0.003133,-0.010179
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I1102,0.106994,0.170609,0.00528,-0.097546,0.059703,-0.045459,-0.003995,-0.007846,0.030474,0.08474,0.005196,0.010041,-0.029732,-0.006193,-0.031759,0.001856,0.029597,0.002154,0.013073,-0.008754,-0.009109,0.010634,-0.003821,-0.003856,-0.002634
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I1103,0.112685,0.169593,-0.006411,-0.10013,0.044008,-0.046854,-0.00705,-0.005538,0.039269,0.075992,0.011367,0.013638,-0.02215,-0.005505,-0.036644,-0.01127,0.019427,-0.002027,0.010559,-0.008004,-0.016346,0.005564,-0.011216,-0.009278,-0.006945
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I1580,0.127482,0.182795,-0.003017,-0.103037,0.052317,-0.04769,-0.008695,-0.012692,0.040496,0.076904,0.007307,0.014987,-0.020961,-0.003716,-0.043159,0.001724,0.035986,-0.001647,0.006788,-0.009254,-0.010357,-0.001731,0.000246,-0.000482,-0.010298
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I1581,0.113823,0.175687,0.001131 ,-0.110467,0.057241,-0.045459,-0.003995,-0.008077,0.040905,0.084558,0.004222,0.013488,-0.02215,-0.000826,-0.04248,0.003978,0.040549,0.004687,0.005405,-0.005628,-0.010731,0.00643,-0.013557,0.003494,-0.000958
Anatolia_Barcin_N:I1583,0.119514,0.180764,0.00264,-0.10756,0.048932,-0.051037,-0.010575,-0.008769,0.035792,0.087656,0.012342,0.012139,-0.023786,0.005092,-0.036644,-0.006497,0.020861,0.002534,0.011816,-0.003877,-0.011729,0.004822,0.001232,-0.006748,-0.00491
WHG:I1875,0.130897,0.120848,0.191577,0.194447,0.15 9107,0.048248,0.015746,0.040152,0.087332,0.007472,-0.016076,-0.015436,0.017839,-0.003303,0.047909,0.047069,0.007302,0.018497,-0.003268,0.057027,0.087471,0.00915,-0.048436,-0.143153,0.01449
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0231,0.122929,0.082258,0.04487 7,0.113697,-0.033852,0.046575,0,-0.006,-0.051949,-0.072165,0.007307,0.001049,0.003271,-0.022708,0.029994,0.018297,0.005998,-0.003547,-0.00176,0.011005,-0.003244,0,-0.001725,0.013616,-0.000838
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0357,0.126344,0.092413,0.03808 9,0.107883,-0.029852,0.039324,0.00564,-0.008077,-0.043768,-0.065605,-0.001137,-0.00015,-0.003568,-0.024772,0.035287,0.01896,0.00013,0.003167,-0.005279,0.004877,0.003619,0.006925,0.008504,0.012 532,-0.005269
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0370,0.124067,0.08632,0.049403 ,0.111759,-0.027697,0.044623,0.00517,-0.000462,-0.066061,-0.066516,-0.002436,-0.00015,0.000297,-0.025735,0.03868,0.013789,0.000782,-0.000127,-0.005154,0.015758,0.001622,-0.0115,0.007025,0.021328,-0.003952
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0429,0.130897,0.088351,0.04412 3,0.126617,-0.030467,0.050758,0.005875,0.003,-0.059516,-0.075992,0.000974,-0.008992,0.002081,-0.018717,0.039359,0.020949,0.004955,-0.000887,0.003897,0.022636,-0.005615,0.000495,0.020089,0.018798,-0.013651
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0438,0.126344,0.085304,0.04261 5,0.122741,-0.032929,0.048806,-0.002115,0.002077,-0.068925,-0.080548,0.00065,0.002548,-0.00892,-0.029176,0.032437,0.011668,0.002347,-0.005068,-0.006285,0.018009,-0.00025,0.001731,0.021199,0.021328,-0.007185
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0439,0.127482,0.096475,0.03733 5,0.117896,-0.017542,0.038487,0.00329,-0.006,-0.052154,-0.057587,0.001949,-0.000599,-0.007582,-0.02257,0.038273,0.016441,-0.002217,-0.004941,-0.00352,0.018634,-0.001996,0.00643,0.015529,0.02663,-0.00934
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0443,0.124067,0.093429,0.03997 5,0.108206,-0.027082,0.045459,0.003995,-0.007154,-0.052563,-0.081642,0.001299,-3e-04,0.000595,-0.016515,0.044923,0.003978,-0.014212,-0.001394,-0.003771,0.013006,0.00262,0.000247,0.003944,0.0189 18,0.002036
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0444,0.125205,0.08632,0.045632 ,0.119188,-0.024928,0.047969,0.00564,-0.001154,-0.050108,-0.073259,0.002598,0.002847,0,-0.042663,0.029451,0.022938,-0.000522,0.003294,-0.010307,0.013131,-0.015098,0.004204,0.010846,0.016267,0.003952
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I7489,0.122929,0.090382,0.04223 8,0.110144,-0.03416,0.043507,0.004935,0.000692,-0.058085,-0.082735,0.005196,0.004046,-0.010406,-0.006881,0.041123,0.01485,-0.008345,-0.006588,-0.002388,0.006878,-0.010232,-0.001731,0.014173,0.018075,-0.006586
MAR_Taforalt:TAF009,-0.162767,0.07718,-0.024513,-0.079135,0.009848,-0.047969,-0.052877,0.020538,0.13294,0.002005,0.025333,-0.026676,0.057978,-0.052985,0.072882,-0.034076,0.002347,-0.05625,-0.130475,0.04152,-0.026204,-0.120314,0.067909,-0.016508,0.012334
MAR_Taforalt:TAF010,-0.193499,0.083273,-0.03017,-0.088502,0.034776,-0.055499,-0.076378,0.019384,0.163619,0.008565,0.02111,-0.030573,0.07879,-0.046104,0.077496,-0.046141,-0.00665,-0.069805,-0.144176,0.036518,-0.042924,-0.129217,0.07629,-0.015303,0.018322
MAR_Taforalt:TAF011,-0.194638,0.085304,-0.021873,-0.088825,0.026774,-0.059961,-0.072148,0.019845,0.161165,0.002551,0.016564,-0.035818,0.080574,-0.051196,0.066367,-0.037523,0.012126,-0.071199,-0.14493,0.035767,-0.041427,-0.12662,0.068279,-0.011447,0.018441
MAR_Taforalt:TAF013,-0.196914,0.082258,-0.026398,-0.088502,0.032314,-0.057173,-0.074733,0.017768,0.156665,0.002369,0.02111,-0.036717,0.077898,-0.052159,0.072746,-0.038584,0.000913,-0.069552,-0.141285,0.039894,-0.035687,-0.125384,0.075428,-0.011206,0.020477
MAR_Taforalt:TAF014,-0.201467,0.079211,-0.018479,-0.083011,0.034468,-0.055499,-0.076848,0.014538,0.162596,0.002005,0.020461,-0.029374,0.078344,-0.054223,0.066503,-0.025192,0.017602,-0.063724,-0.151215,0.04127,-0.042176,-0.126126,0.077153,-0.014339,0.012693
SSA:Bantu_S.E.:KSP175,-0.629442,0.062963,0.023381,0.019057,-0.004616,0.008367,0.027731,-0.011999,-0.020043,0.012028,0.003897,-0.006894,-0.007284,-0.000275,-0.010993,0.005569,0,0.060557,-0.026899,0.003627,-0.00287,-0.003091,0.003451,0.000723,0.001796
SSA:Bantu_S.E.:KSP176,-0.631718,0.060932,0.020365,0.017765,-0.002462,0.012829,0.034077,-0.017307,-0.019839,0.013485,0.000812,-0.010191,-0.018137,0,-0.011808,0.009016,0.000652,0.05929,-0.024763,0.006628,-0.00287,-0.002102,0.001232,0.001084,0.000239
SSA:Bantu_S.E.:KSP177,-0.622612,0.062963,0.01697,0.015504,0.003693,0.0094 82,0.016686,-0.001385,-0.020248,0.012757,0.00406,-0.000749,-0.005946,0.003441,-0.00475,0.00716,-0.009127,0.048902,-0.016592,0.002001,-0.003494,0.002473,0.000616,0.001205,-0.001557
SSA:Bantu_S.E.:KSP178,-0.635133,0.064994,0.020365,0.019703,-0.00277,0.008088,0.038307,-0.021461,-0.02168,0.009841,0.002598,-0.015137,-0.012339,0.003165,-0.006922,0.001326,-0.000913,0.068158,-0.030042,0.002501,-0.001123,-0.000989,0.002588,0.006507,0.002275
SSA:Bantu_S.E.:KSP179,-0.626027,0.062963,0.018856,0.01292,-0.001846,0.010877,0.019271,-0.004384,-0.02127,0.002734,0.001786,-0.003597,-0.014717,0,-0.015336,0.0118,-0.002086,0.044721,-0.019986,0.005127,-0.005241,-0.001978,-0.00037,0.003012,-0.002036
SSA:Bantu_S.E.:KSP180,-0.633995,0.066009,0.018102,0.02261,-0.002154,0.008925,0.041597,-0.021691,-0.01718,0.014032,0.002273,-0.009591,-0.014123,0.004266,-0.01045,0.009149,-0.005737,0.070439,-0.028031,0.00075,-0.005865,-0.002226,0.005669,-0.004579,-0.00455
SSA:Bantu_S.E.:KSP181,-0.626027,0.064994,0.019987,0.017442,-0.000615,0.010598,0.019741,-0.005538,-0.023725,0.013303,-0.001299,-0.011839,-0.010555,0.004954,-0.007736,0.003182,-0.012256,0.055616,-0.023757,0.003752,-0.000749,0,0.002218,-0.000361,-0.000958
SSA:Bantu_S.E.:KSP182,-0.628304,0.066009,0.020365,0.016796,0.000923,0.007 251,0.035252,-0.014769,-0.027611,0.011845,0.00406,-0.003597,-0.006541,0.003165,-0.010315,0.006762,-0.01004,0.064231,-0.028156,0.003627,-0.008984,0.002473,0.000616,0.00253,0.005029
SSA:Bantu_S.E.:KSP183,-0.63058,0.061947,0.023381,0.018734,-0.000615,0.008646,0.031491,-0.018461,-0.02127,0.013121,0.003573,-0.008542,-0.01115,0.001927,-0.010043,0.003315,-0.007171,0.070946,-0.026019,0.003252,-0.006489,-0.003462,0.005053,-0.001084,-0.004191
Lo del R10503 y el R10487 me parece abusar, igual habría que quitarlos del average...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ard 2.0
Yo creo que están bien, cual crees que es la razon de que salgan tantos outliers en este tipo de estudios?Quote:
Originally Posted by gixajo
Portuguese_pagixajoconamor_k13,0.1044833,0.1459167 ,0.0342833,-0.0124,0.0437833,-0.0084833,-0.0036667,0.0020333,0.02535,0.0343667,-0.0006667,0.0054167,-0.011,-0.0099333,0.0043,-0.0007,0.0022333,-0.0034,-0.00265,-0.0001,0.0005,-0.0024,-0.0003333,-0.0052167,0.0000333
Se me ocurren muchas posibles razones, porque en realidad no lo sé.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ard 2.0
Realmente los que habría que quitar son los que sean de después del 711, independientemente de que ploteen un poco raros, o tanto los que ploteen rarunos como los de fechas posteriores al 711.
Pero bueno, para ir divirtiéndonos, con el primer average que hiciste:
EL NE_Iberia_LIA son el NE_Iberia son dos averages, el NE_Iberia(6CE)+NE_Iberia(6-8CE), sería equiparable al tuyo, porque mezcla de justo antes del 711, y de un poco después, pero ha sido un modelito apresurado.Code:West_Iberia_LIA,0.0992,0.146075,0.0342125,-0.013775,0.0435625,-0.008375,-0.00425,0.0018625,0.0261125,0.0337625,-0.0008375,0.00565,-0.0100625,-0.009275,0.0043125,-0.000775,0.0016,-0.0030875,-0.0039,-0.000925,0.000125,-0.002825,0.0002125,-0.0061125,-0.0003875
North_Iberia_IA,0.125205,0.1431895,0.065053,0.0114665,0.058011,0.003347,-0.0034075,0.0045,0.026077,0.034989,-0.002192,0.0088425,-0.0169475,-0.0085325,0.0107215,6.65e-05,-0.008279,0.0008865,-0.000126,-0.00075,0.0082355,0.0023495,-0.0070865,-0.0118085,-0.0061075
North_Iberia_LIA,0.1257745,0.155376,0.0631675,0.005814,0.052933,-0.000697,-0.001175,0.0074995,0.032826,0.0429165,-0.0010555,0.008842,-0.0237115,-0.0187855,0.013572,0.0043755,-0.004759,0.0051945,-0.0022625,-0.0090665,0.0131645,0.000371,-0.0077645,-0.0163875,-0.000778
Northeast_Iberia_LIA,0.122929,0.1412094,0.0456504,0.018411,0.0412382,0.0034167,0.0027378,0.0059997,0.0162905,0.019244,-0.0069746,0.0078154,-0.0095364,-0.0064202,0.009161,0.0037191,-0.0010755,0.0039592,-0.0010431,0.0037894,0.0030444,0.0005132,-0.0041782,0.0024823,-0.0025866
Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 2.6590% / 0.02659048
62.8 West_Iberia_LIA
37.2 Northeast_Iberia_LIA
Also,
https://i.imgur.com/UNsiXAb.png
Estas creo que son todas las IA&LIA&pre-medievales"puras" Ibéricas, quitando las de baja resolución y las que son posteriores al 711.
Están incluidas las SE_Iberia del 3-4CE que tienen NA a cascoporro pero siguen siendo pre-islámicas, y que están muy relacionadas con cartagineses.
Code:Iberia_East_IA:I12410,0.132035,0.146236,0.060339,-0.004845,0.066782,-0.005857,0,0.001385,0.034155,0.050115,-0.001137,0.012589,-0.025867,-0.012248,0.008822,0.012596,0.022687,-0.001014,-0.00729,0.008879,0.006239,0.007172,-0.009983,-0.013737,-0.001916
Iberia_East_IA:I12879,0.126344,0.151314,0.061848,0.009044,0.061242,0.006414,-0.010105,0.004154,0.014726,0.031162,-0.001786,0.009741,-0.021853,-0.015138,0.001493,-0.014187,-0.011474,-0.003041,0.013324,0.010005,0.009608,-0.004575,-0.01405,-0.007109,-0.000599
Iberia_East_IA:I3320,0.118376,0.152329,0.051288,0.004522,0.064935,-0.003347,-0.014101,0.005538,0.030679,0.049022,-0.002273,0.014237,-0.017245,-0.017203,0.005293,0.001989,0.012386,-0.005068,-0.001006,-0.004377,0.006863,0.000124,0.001972,-0.012893,-0.000359
Iberia_East_IA:I3321,0.126344,0.157407,0.065619,0.008075,0.062781,-0.013387,0.002115,0.007846,0.039064,0.045923,-0.000487,0.008692,-0.032111,-0.025873,0.011129,0.008221,0.007562,0.010642,0.007919,-0.00988,0.013601,-0.008779,-0.002465,-0.023859,-0.007544
Iberia_East_IA:I3322,0.124067,0.152329,0.05506,0.006137,0.06155,-0.006972,0.003055,0.002769,0.037837,0.055946,-0.003735,0.013188,-0.020367,-0.009083,0.017508,-0.013126,-0.023078,0.005068,0.004902,-0.006753,0.006863,0.000495,-0.005546,-0.018677,0.001437
Iberia_East_IA:I3323,0.121791,0.15436,0.05242,-0.002261,0.059703,-0.008646,-0.00564,0.003231,0.032928,0.05212,-0.006171,0.011839,-0.031962,-0.003578,0.004343,0.001591,0.011474,0.002154,-0.003142,-0.002376,0.002246,0.001607,-0.016392,-0.018195,0.002874
Iberia_East_IA:I3324,0.122929,0.131003,0.05506,0.015181,0.059703,0.007809,-0.002585,0.006692,0.019225,0.036083,-0.005846,0.004946,-0.026016,-0.00234,0.00285,0.022938,0.017602,-0.001267,0.01169,-0.008004,-0.00287,0.005564,-0.004067,-0.002048,-0.005269
Iberia_East_IA:I3327,0.124067,0.146236,0.050157,-0.018411,0.042162,-0.001394,-0.00188,0.004154,0.031292,0.054671,-0.016239,0.013638,-0.011447,-0.03069,0.011401,0.025059,0.01708,0.005448,0.004022,0.004252,0.001996,-0.002349,-0.008381,-0.002651,0.002395
Iberia_North_IA:I3758,0.125205,0.146236,0.06675,0.013889,0.053241,0.003347,-0.004465,0.002308,0.030474,0.034989,0.001624,0.008393,-0.017691,-0.00812,0.013843,-0.007292,-0.02047,0.00114,-0.00352,-0.002751,0.003494,0.000618,-0.008134,-0.016508,-0.002994
Iberia_North_IA:I3759,0.125205,0.140143,0.063356,0.009044,0.062781,0.003347,-0.00235,0.006692,0.02168,0.034989,-0.006008,0.009292,-0.016204,-0.008945,0.0076,0.007425,0.003912,0.000633,0.003268,0.001251,0.012977,0.004081,-0.006039,-0.007109,-0.009221
Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12031,0.126344,0.133034,0.039598,0.017119,0.03416,0.007809,0.009635,0.009461,0.002659,0.004738,-0.006658,-0.002548,-0.009068,-0.003165,0.002307,-0.003315,0.004303,0.003547,-0.008296,0.006128,-0.000499,0.001237,-0.002711,0.00482,-0.008263
Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12032,0.142279,0.145221,0.04978,0.030039,0.03139,0.010877,-0.00047,0.013153,0.011862,0.011116,-0.006333,0.013038,-0.01888,-0.00234,0.004886,0.008221,0.004563,0.012162,0.002263,0.013006,0.010232,-0.000618,-0.001356,-0.002651,0.000838
Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12034,0.130897,0.139128,0.0445,0.01615,0.052317,-0.001394,0.00047,0,0.021475,0.036447,-0.000974,0.017085,-0.019623,-0.009358,0.017644,0.009281,0.000522,-0.00152,-0.009804,-0.005503,0.006738,0.005688,-0.00493,-0.013616,-0.001197
Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12162,0.114961,0.126941,0.046763,0.030685,0.043085,0.011713,0.006815,0.000923,0.002863,0.006196,-0.010393,0.007343,-0.000297,-0.011147,0.005157,-0.005701,0.001173,0.003801,0.005656,0.002501,0.019965,0.000371,-0.000616,0.014821,-0.002634
Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12163,0.122929,0.139128,0.05242,0.022287,0.028313,0.005857,0.00799,-0.001615,0.001841,0.000911,-0.005196,-0.001349,-0.015163,-0.004817,0.001221,0.01843,0.020079,-0.000253,0.00352,0.008004,-0.003494,0.003091,-0.003821,0.009399,-0.003233
Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE:I3982,0.084229,0.147252,0.030924,-0.027132,0.044931,-0.021475,-0.00047,0.004154,0.030883,0.041914,-0.006333,0.004196,-0.00669,-0.010322,0.00665,-0.005436,-0.013951,-0.006588,-0.011816,-5e-04,0.001622,-0.006306,0.005423,-0.006145,-0.003712
Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE:I3983,0.075123,0.148267,0.011314,-0.039729,0.035391,-0.021753,-0.001175,0.003692,0.03027,0.032985,-0.001786,0.003747,-0.009366,-0.017616,0.008143,0.008618,0.011474,-0.00038,-0.014078,0.003377,0.002745,-0.005812,0.008504,0.000843,-0.003832
Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE:I4054,0.078538,0.142174,0.008674,-0.032946,0.032929,-0.014781,-0.003995,0.014769,0.028838,0.034807,-0.005846,0.002997,-0.002676,-0.017753,0.004479,0.013922,0.024121,-0.008995,-0.007793,-0.006503,-0.000125,0.000618,0.006409,0.001807,-0.003113
ESP_EIA_Tartessian:I12171,0.121791,0.14319,0.05242,-0.009367,0.062165,-0.003068,0.002115,0.010153,0.042132,0.048293,0.00406,0.009292,-0.027056,-0.022845,0.004479,0.011005,0.009388,-0.003547,0.003142,0.005628,0.011605,-0.002473,-0.005546,-0.023859,-0.006227
ESP_IA:I3320,0.119514,0.145221,0.055814,0.00323,0.061242,-0.005299,-0.003995,0.004154,0.029042,0.04647,-0.003573,0.011839,-0.017988,-0.021194,0.005836,0.008088,0.014994,-0.004434,0.001383,0.001376,0.004118,-0.008037,0.002342,-0.009278,0.005389
ESP_LIA:I19987,0.125205,0.156392,0.06675,0.000323,0.050471,0,-0.002115,0.009461,0.031497,0.04319,-0.00682,0.008992,-0.024083,-0.019955,0.016151,-0.008618,-0.011474,0.009375,-0.004902,-0.01113,0.015348,0.000247,-0.010353,-0.02663,-0.003592
ESP_LIA:I19991,0.126344,0.15436,0.059585,0.011305,0.055395,-0.001394,-0.000235,0.005538,0.034155,0.042643,0.004709,0.008692,-0.02334,-0.017616,0.010993,0.017369,0.001956,0.001014,0.000377,-0.007003,0.010981,0.000495,-0.005176,-0.006145,0.002036
PORT_LIA:R10487_K13_sim,0.1218,0.1482,0.0527,0.0051,0.0521,-0.0014,-0.0001,0.0031,0.023,0.0315,-0.0022,0.0087,-0.0153,-0.0058,0.0031,0.0031,-0.0002,0.0019,0.0004,-0.0029,0.0036,0.0006,-0.0043,-0.0124,-0.0038
PORT_LIA:R10499_K13_sim,0.1258,0.1549,0.0412,-0.0142,0.0513,-0.0095,-0.0012,0.0038,0.0221,0.0404,-0.0001,0.0044,-0.0138,-0.0052,-0.0056,-0.0029,0.0036,0.0015,0.0059,-0.0005,0.0022,0.0013,-0.0045,-0.007,0.0009
PORT_LIA:R10501_K13_sim,0.1012,0.141,0.0312,-0.006,0.0378,-0.0017,-0.0043,-0.0003,0.026,0.0284,-0.002,0.0037,-0.0117,-0.0111,0.0046,-0.005,-0.002,-0.0019,-0.0036,0.0011,0.001,-0.0046,0.0015,-0.0051,0.003
PORT_LIA:R10502_K13_sim,0.1019,0.1476,0.0302,-0.0123,0.042,-0.0118,-0.003,0.0013,0.0216,0.031,0.0005,0.0054,-0.0106,-0.011,0.0066,0.0009,0.0041,-0.0053,-0.003,-0.0006,-0.0021,-0.0037,-0.0008,-0.0053,-0.0008
PORT_LIA:R10503_K13_sim,0.0449,0.1449,0.0153,-0.0409,0.0337,-0.0147,-0.0119,-0.0004,0.0338,0.0324,-0.0005,0.004,0.0008,-0.0088,0.0056,-0.0051,-0.0004,-0.0062,-0.0157,-0.0039,-0.0056,-0.0088,0.008,-0.0052,0.0005
PORT_LIA:R10507_K13_sim,0.1035,0.1428,0.0433,-0.0024,0.0462,-0.0005,-0.0069,0.0003,0.0278,0.0317,-0.0007,0.0084,-0.0125,-0.0141,0.0082,-0.0021,-0.0027,-0.003,-0.0052,-0.0019,0.0022,0.0016,-0.0026,-0.0043,0.0002
PORT_LIA:R10508_K13_sim,0.1092,0.1507,0.0322,-0.0154,0.0446,-0.0096,-0.0007,0.003,0.0271,0.0404,-0.001,0.0046,-0.0121,-0.007,0.0012,-0.0018,-0.0007,-0.0012,-0.0014,-0.0027,0.0013,-0.0021,-0.0002,-0.0034,0.0006
Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.2615% / 0.01261537
41.0 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL
30.0 Iberia_East_IA
18.0 PORT_LIA
5.6 Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE
5.4 Iberia_North_IA
Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 1.6664% / 0.01666427
65.8 PORT_LIA
25.6 Iberia_East_IA
8.4 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL
0.2 Iberia_North_IA
Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 1.4068% / 0.01406818
31.8 Iberia_East_IA
26.2 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL
18.2 Iberia_North_IA
15.2 PORT_LIA
8.6 ESP_LIA
Y una megareferencia con todas ellas:
Target: Iberia_IACode:Iberia_IA:average_n29,0.1145799,0.1457931,0.0464324,-0.0008193,0.049461,-0.0034757,-0.0017064,0.0044625,0.0255509,0.0355355,-0.0032138,0.0078993,-0.0162136,-0.0122188,0.0067561,0.0035923,0.0036734,0.0001613,-0.0011304,-0.000406,0.004926,-0.0008014,-0.0030281,-0.0076593,-0.0016599
Distance: 2.0599% / 0.02059858
54.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
14.4 WHG
3.0 MAR_Taforalt
Que me parece fantástica porque tiene buena distancias para todos:
Spoiler!
I have good distances, but not so good model with them:
Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 2.1054% / 0.02105437
39.2 PORT_LIA
35.4 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL
25.4 Iberia_East_IA
Distance to: Gil_Vicente
0.02683064 PORT_LIA:R10501_K13_sim
0.02759155 PORT_LIA:R10507_K13_sim
0.03230085 PORT_LIA:R10502_K13_sim
0.03693315 PORT_LIA:R10508_K13_sim
0.04226039 PORT_LIA:R10487_K13_sim
0.04982648 PORT_LIA:R10499_K13_sim
0.05134896 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12034
0.05158684 Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE:I3982
0.05460426 Iberia_North_IA:I3758
0.05710585 Iberia_East_IA:I3320
0.05752075 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12031
0.05834640 ESP_IA:I3320
0.05874794 Iberia_North_IA:I3759
0.05893540 Iberia_East_IA:I12879
0.05965622 ESP_LIA:I19991
0.06120029 Iberia_East_IA:I3322
0.06205045 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12162
0.06282189 ESP_LIA:I19987
0.06318199 Iberia_East_IA:I3323
0.06715341 Iberia_East_IA:I3324
0.07118892 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12032
0.07122640 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12163
0.07178943 ESP_EIA_Tartessian:I12171
0.07190319 Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE:I3983
0.07302290 Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE:I4054
Y una megareferencia con todas ellas:
Target: Iberia_IACode:Iberia_IA:average_n29,0.1145799,0.1457931,0.0464324,-0.0008193,0.049461,-0.0034757,-0.0017064,0.0044625,0.0255509,0.0355355,-0.0032138,0.0078993,-0.0162136,-0.0122188,0.0067561,0.0035923,0.0036734,0.0001613,-0.0011304,-0.000406,0.004926,-0.0008014,-0.0030281,-0.0076593,-0.0016599
Distance: 2.0599% / 0.02059858
54.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
14.4 WHG
3.0 MAR_Taforalt
Que me parece fantástica porque tiene buena distancias para todos:
Spoiler!
We should wait till have the real coordinates of Portuguese samples, but it´s an notable improvement compared with previously existent Iberian IA references.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damião de Góis
These aren't Iron Age at all, they postdate Romans by at ~500 years, the IA label is exclusively used for pre-Roman samples. Roman samples from Urbino are closer in time to the Roman conquest and they already show a completely East Med profile because of colonisation. You could likewise say North African and East Med ancestry was already present in "Portugal" in the "Iron Age".Quote:
Originally Posted by Damião de Góis
That's like getting a genetic sample from a modern Brazilian and saying the indigenous people pre-1500 already had European ancestry.
PS: We have two samples from ~800BC from nearby (Arrifana, Coimbra). And yes, they are Basque-like. One appears to have steppe similar to modern individuals, the other one only 2/3s of that. That said the samples are of poor quality.
I suggest you look into qpAdm models made for modern and IA Iberians in "Large-scale migration into Britain during the Middle to Late Bronze Age"
https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/...ipt_2021_3.pdf
The bulk of ancient IA Iberians has similar levels steppe ancestry in 3-way models to Basques, but usually less than the average non-Basque Spanish. The exception are IA samples from Cataluña, particularly Girona which is close to the French border, plenty of which have similar or suprior levels to modern Spanish. Obviously the vector for steppe ancestry in Iberia is through the Pyrenees, it's not surprising pre-Romans from that area are showing higher levels than those further away.
Until there is a significant number of pre-Roman samples from further west that unequivocally show high levels of steppe ancestry and north African ancestry no one can contradict Olalde's statement. For the time being it does seem your high steppe ancestry is not because of indigenous western Iberians, but from colonists who made their way here after the Roman conquest. Likewise for the non-West Euro things we all carry.
https://i.postimg.cc/tg31S1qD/sadsadsad.png
You are right about we are wrong labelling these samples as Iron Age, it was just a simplification to indicate they are from a period before the muslim invasion started, and to put them together with proper IA samples in a model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruderico
We can call it "Late Ancient Western Iberian" or "Western Iberia early MiddleAge" if you prefer it.
Indepently of labelling, what do those provisional samples results suggest to you? Influence of Atlantic trade, ancient cultural relationship with the Iberian Atlantic coast and the North African Atlantic coast? Influence of Phoenician settlements? Results of varied people typical of Romanized areas? All together...none of this?
Earliest Portuguese sample is dated to around 337 AD. One problem with this paper is that they talk about the Iron Age and when the vast majority of samples are from the Roman period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damião de Góis
Eurogenes K13
Code:Portugal_Conimbriga:R10487___AD_337___Coverage_66.13%,38.73,16.47,28.87,2.20,9.76,0.72,1.13,0,0.20,0,0.20,1.69,0.03
Portugal_Miroico:R10499___AD_331___Coverage_81.68%,35,10.38,32.24,1.54,18.69,1.46,0,0.69,0,0,0,0,0
Portugal_Miroico:R10501___AD_426___Coverage_64.40%,34.31,10.92,27.09,3.01,15.41,2.89,1.91,1.05,0.54,0.23,0.06,0.76,1.82
Portugal_Miroico:R10502___AD_426___Coverage_71.97%,34.91,10.53,26.33,2.91,15.51,5.11,0.03,0.19,0,0.23,1.41,1.40,1.45
Portugal_Miroico:R10503___AD_518___Coverage_88.61%,26.55,5.38,27.92,0,17.32,10.84,0.01,0,0.76,0.74,0.46,5.27,4.75
Portugal_Miroico:R10507___AD_426___Coverage_50.92%,38.63,11.65,31.01,0.01,9.03,4.08,0.01,0.65,0,1.61,0,1.86,1.49
Portugal_Miroico:R10508___AD_337___Coverage_66.89%,34.88,7.41,31.31,2.22,15.35,5.34,0,0.10,0,0.09,0.98,0.88,1.44
SAMPLE DATE COVERAGE LATITUDE LONGITUDE LOCALITY COUNTRY R10499 331 81,68% 38,7261 -9,3653 Miroico Portugal R10508 337 66,89% 38,7261 -9,3653 Miroico Portugal R10487 337 66,13% 40,099444 -8,490556 Conimbriga Portugal R10488 337 57,83% 40,099444 -8,490556 Conimbriga Portugal R10500 426 53,65% 38,7261 -9,3653 Miroico Portugal R10501 426 64,40% 38,7261 -9,3653 Miroico Portugal R10502 426 71,97% 38,7261 -9,3653 Miroico Portugal R10506 426 77,69% 38,7261 -9,3653 Miroico Portugal R10507 426 50,92% 38,7261 -9,3653 Miroico Portugal R10503 518 88,61% 38,7261 -9,3653 Miroico Portugal R10494 781 86,54% 38,8803 -7,1637 MontedaNora Portugal R10496 829 85,03% 38,8803 -7,1637 MontedaNora Portugal R10491 832 82,74% 38,8803 -7,1637 MontedaNora Portugal
To me this screams Roman colonisation, but it's not impossible there could have been settlement from individuals whose origins lied elsewhere, I'm just sceptical it made much of an impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by gixajo
Atlantic Europe is unlikely to have been significant because Iberia was rather peripheral to the whole network and a lot of its material culture shows clear local influences that aren't seen much outside Iberia - it seems that indigenous N/W Iberians imported foreign wares and made their own versions of it. Besides Ferrol is over 1000km away from Brest by boat along the coastline, and Bronze Age boats carried at most 20 people. I just don't see this as being able to make a significant genetic impact even if population densities in Iberia were relatively low. You'd also expect to see this genetic effect elsewhere in northern Iberia, particularly later on as they influenced other peoples, but so far we don't, it's just "Basques" with different levels of Steppe ancestry - some had more, most had less.
NW Africa is closer, more recent, and was much more sophisticated than the MBA Atlantic peoples of Europe, so it's not impossible Tartessos' ties with Phoenician/Carthaginian cities/traders might have led to some settlement, but until we have the smoking gun it's best not to make bold statements. As you know the only Tartessian sample we have might have, at best, a small amount of NW African ancestry. The archaeological info is quite interesting
Quote:
The archaeological site of La Angorrilla, which was excavated during the beginning of the 21st century, is located on the southwest of the municipality of Alcalá del Río (Sevilla, Spain). Its entire necropolis can be dated from the end of the 8th century to the middle of the 6th century BCE (93). This "Tartessian" (or "orientalizante") necropolis shows a variety of burial types in simple pits, mainly inhumations but a few primary and secondary incinerations are also present. The tombs present rectangular shape and they are oriented in west-east direction, a common feature amongst the necropolis of the Phoenician archaic period in the Iberian Peninsula (93).
Right, and all this area of Alentejo, Lisbon and Conimbriga were under Roman yoke since ~140BC. They weren't particularly resistant to it either, only further north and east where local groups lived in more tribal environments - those revolted and were relatively autonomous until Julius Caesar led campaigns there when he was governor of Hispania Ulterior.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf
So don´t you think that megalithism phenomenom could be a clue of an ancient BA link between Atlantic European coast, even but in a lesser degree with W and NW Morocco coast? That would be way before the time of these samples, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruderico
In any case, it is remarkable that they have NA in high quantities, something that samples from the same period of highly and early Romanized areas of the NE of the peninsula did not show.
Cambio las etiquetas IA/LIA por una que pueda englobar a todos a la vez.
Code:Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I12410,0.132035,0.146236,0.060339,-0.004845,0.066782,-0.005857,0,0.001385,0.034155,0.050115,-0.001137,0.012589,-0.025867,-0.012248,0.008822,0.012596,0.022687,-0.001014,-0.00729,0.008879,0.006239,0.007172,-0.009983,-0.013737,-0.001916
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I12879,0.126344,0.151314,0.061848,0.009044,0.061242,0.006414,-0.010105,0.004154,0.014726,0.031162,-0.001786,0.009741,-0.021853,-0.015138,0.001493,-0.014187,-0.011474,-0.003041,0.013324,0.010005,0.009608,-0.004575,-0.01405,-0.007109,-0.000599
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I3320,0.118376,0.152329,0.051288,0.004522,0.064935,-0.003347,-0.014101,0.005538,0.030679,0.049022,-0.002273,0.014237,-0.017245,-0.017203,0.005293,0.001989,0.012386,-0.005068,-0.001006,-0.004377,0.006863,0.000124,0.001972,-0.012893,-0.000359
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I3321,0.126344,0.157407,0.065619,0.008075,0.062781,-0.013387,0.002115,0.007846,0.039064,0.045923,-0.000487,0.008692,-0.032111,-0.025873,0.011129,0.008221,0.007562,0.010642,0.007919,-0.00988,0.013601,-0.008779,-0.002465,-0.023859,-0.007544
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I3322,0.124067,0.152329,0.05506,0.006137,0.06155,-0.006972,0.003055,0.002769,0.037837,0.055946,-0.003735,0.013188,-0.020367,-0.009083,0.017508,-0.013126,-0.023078,0.005068,0.004902,-0.006753,0.006863,0.000495,-0.005546,-0.018677,0.001437
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I3323,0.121791,0.15436,0.05242,-0.002261,0.059703,-0.008646,-0.00564,0.003231,0.032928,0.05212,-0.006171,0.011839,-0.031962,-0.003578,0.004343,0.001591,0.011474,0.002154,-0.003142,-0.002376,0.002246,0.001607,-0.016392,-0.018195,0.002874
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I3324,0.122929,0.131003,0.05506,0.015181,0.059703,0.007809,-0.002585,0.006692,0.019225,0.036083,-0.005846,0.004946,-0.026016,-0.00234,0.00285,0.022938,0.017602,-0.001267,0.01169,-0.008004,-0.00287,0.005564,-0.004067,-0.002048,-0.005269
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I3327,0.124067,0.146236,0.050157,-0.018411,0.042162,-0.001394,-0.00188,0.004154,0.031292,0.054671,-0.016239,0.013638,-0.011447,-0.03069,0.011401,0.025059,0.01708,0.005448,0.004022,0.004252,0.001996,-0.002349,-0.008381,-0.002651,0.002395
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I3758,0.125205,0.146236,0.06675,0.013889,0.053241,0.003347,-0.004465,0.002308,0.030474,0.034989,0.001624,0.008393,-0.017691,-0.00812,0.013843,-0.007292,-0.02047,0.00114,-0.00352,-0.002751,0.003494,0.000618,-0.008134,-0.016508,-0.002994
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I3759,0.125205,0.140143,0.063356,0.009044,0.062781,0.003347,-0.00235,0.006692,0.02168,0.034989,-0.006008,0.009292,-0.016204,-0.008945,0.0076,0.007425,0.003912,0.000633,0.003268,0.001251,0.012977,0.004081,-0.006039,-0.007109,-0.009221
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I12031,0.126344,0.133034,0.039598,0.017119,0.03416,0.007809,0.009635,0.009461,0.002659,0.004738,-0.006658,-0.002548,-0.009068,-0.003165,0.002307,-0.003315,0.004303,0.003547,-0.008296,0.006128,-0.000499,0.001237,-0.002711,0.00482,-0.008263
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I12032,0.142279,0.145221,0.04978,0.030039,0.03139,0.010877,-0.00047,0.013153,0.011862,0.011116,-0.006333,0.013038,-0.01888,-0.00234,0.004886,0.008221,0.004563,0.012162,0.002263,0.013006,0.010232,-0.000618,-0.001356,-0.002651,0.000838
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I12034,0.130897,0.139128,0.0445,0.01615,0.052317,-0.001394,0.00047,0,0.021475,0.036447,-0.000974,0.017085,-0.019623,-0.009358,0.017644,0.009281,0.000522,-0.00152,-0.009804,-0.005503,0.006738,0.005688,-0.00493,-0.013616,-0.001197
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I12162,0.114961,0.126941,0.046763,0.030685,0.043085,0.011713,0.006815,0.000923,0.002863,0.006196,-0.010393,0.007343,-0.000297,-0.011147,0.005157,-0.005701,0.001173,0.003801,0.005656,0.002501,0.019965,0.000371,-0.000616,0.014821,-0.002634
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I12163,0.122929,0.139128,0.05242,0.022287,0.028313,0.005857,0.00799,-0.001615,0.001841,0.000911,-0.005196,-0.001349,-0.015163,-0.004817,0.001221,0.01843,0.020079,-0.000253,0.00352,0.008004,-0.003494,0.003091,-0.003821,0.009399,-0.003233
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I3982,0.084229,0.147252,0.030924,-0.027132,0.044931,-0.021475,-0.00047,0.004154,0.030883,0.041914,-0.006333,0.004196,-0.00669,-0.010322,0.00665,-0.005436,-0.013951,-0.006588,-0.011816,-5e-04,0.001622,-0.006306,0.005423,-0.006145,-0.003712
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I3983,0.075123,0.148267,0.011314,-0.039729,0.035391,-0.021753,-0.001175,0.003692,0.03027,0.032985,-0.001786,0.003747,-0.009366,-0.017616,0.008143,0.008618,0.011474,-0.00038,-0.014078,0.003377,0.002745,-0.005812,0.008504,0.000843,-0.003832
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I4054,0.078538,0.142174,0.008674,-0.032946,0.032929,-0.014781,-0.003995,0.014769,0.028838,0.034807,-0.005846,0.002997,-0.002676,-0.017753,0.004479,0.013922,0.024121,-0.008995,-0.007793,-0.006503,-0.000125,0.000618,0.006409,0.001807,-0.003113
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I12171,0.121791,0.14319,0.05242,-0.009367,0.062165,-0.003068,0.002115,0.010153,0.042132,0.048293,0.00406,0.009292,-0.027056,-0.022845,0.004479,0.011005,0.009388,-0.003547,0.003142,0.005628,0.011605,-0.002473,-0.005546,-0.023859,-0.006227
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I3320,0.119514,0.145221,0.055814,0.00323,0.061242,-0.005299,-0.003995,0.004154,0.029042,0.04647,-0.003573,0.011839,-0.017988,-0.021194,0.005836,0.008088,0.014994,-0.004434,0.001383,0.001376,0.004118,-0.008037,0.002342,-0.009278,0.005389
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I19987,0.125205,0.156392,0.06675,0.000323,0.050471,0,-0.002115,0.009461,0.031497,0.04319,-0.00682,0.008992,-0.024083,-0.019955,0.016151,-0.008618,-0.011474,0.009375,-0.004902,-0.01113,0.015348,0.000247,-0.010353,-0.02663,-0.003592
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):I19991,0.126344,0.15436,0.059585,0.011305,0.055395,-0.001394,-0.000235,0.005538,0.034155,0.042643,0.004709,0.008692,-0.02334,-0.017616,0.010993,0.017369,0.001956,0.001014,0.000377,-0.007003,0.010981,0.000495,-0.005176,-0.006145,0.002036
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):R10487,0.1218,0.1482,0.0527,0.0051,0.0521,-0.0014,-0.0001,0.0031,0.023,0.0315,-0.0022,0.0087,-0.0153,-0.0058,0.0031,0.0031,-0.0002,0.0019,0.0004,-0.0029,0.0036,0.0006,-0.0043,-0.0124,-0.0038
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):R10499,0.1258,0.1549,0.0412,-0.0142,0.0513,-0.0095,-0.0012,0.0038,0.0221,0.0404,-0.0001,0.0044,-0.0138,-0.0052,-0.0056,-0.0029,0.0036,0.0015,0.0059,-0.0005,0.0022,0.0013,-0.0045,-0.007,0.0009
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):R10501,0.1012,0.141,0.0312,-0.006,0.0378,-0.0017,-0.0043,-0.0003,0.026,0.0284,-0.002,0.0037,-0.0117,-0.0111,0.0046,-0.005,-0.002,-0.0019,-0.0036,0.0011,0.001,-0.0046,0.0015,-0.0051,0.003
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):R10502,0.1019,0.1476,0.0302,-0.0123,0.042,-0.0118,-0.003,0.0013,0.0216,0.031,0.0005,0.0054,-0.0106,-0.011,0.0066,0.0009,0.0041,-0.0053,-0.003,-0.0006,-0.0021,-0.0037,-0.0008,-0.0053,-0.0008
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):R10503,0.0449,0.1449,0.0153,-0.0409,0.0337,-0.0147,-0.0119,-0.0004,0.0338,0.0324,-0.0005,0.004,0.0008,-0.0088,0.0056,-0.0051,-0.0004,-0.0062,-0.0157,-0.0039,-0.0056,-0.0088,0.008,-0.0052,0.0005
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):R10507,0.1035,0.1428,0.0433,-0.0024,0.0462,-0.0005,-0.0069,0.0003,0.0278,0.0317,-0.0007,0.0084,-0.0125,-0.0141,0.0082,-0.0021,-0.0027,-0.003,-0.0052,-0.0019,0.0022,0.0016,-0.0026,-0.0043,0.0002
Iberia_Ancient(200BC-600AC):R10508,0.1092,0.1507,0.0322,-0.0154,0.0446,-0.0096,-0.0007,0.003,0.0271,0.0404,-0.001,0.0046,-0.0121,-0.007,0.0012,-0.0018,-0.0007,-0.0012,-0.0014,-0.0027,0.0013,-0.0021,-0.0002,-0.0034,0.0006
Y los resultados de las muestras con un modelo sin usar vascos expresamente creado para ellas:
https://i.postimg.cc/dtBGLTpX/portug...lesancient.png
Code:Sardinian,0.1185885,0.1649084,0.0251364,-0.0485534,0.0558422,-0.0222034,-0.0032211,-0.0016461,0.0374606,0.0691574,0.0005608,0.0129026,-0.0230266,-0.0104648,-0.0118221,-0.0066295,0.0063593,-0.0003125,0.0017866,-0.0113138,-0.0021778,0.0000396,-0.0069282,-0.0163074,0.0012614
Moroccan,-0.0742576,0.1315181,-0.0074521,-0.0664334,0.021187,-0.0299709,-0.0253678,0.0089509,0.0534009,0.0273663,0.0065344,-0.0066258,0.0207706,-0.0149427,0.0150726,-0.0115203,-0.0012799,-0.0179059,-0.0381608,0.0076991,-0.0125307,-0.0330745,0.021301,-0.0036183,0.0052301
Balto-Slavic,0.1320584,0.1185498,0.078892,0.072796,0.0390876,0.0267014,0.0106904,0.0134714,-0.0013462,-0.027468,-0.0017786,-0.0107279,0.0191006,0.0246848,-0.01021,-0.0003124,0.0016171,-0.0008179,0.0022352,0.0017432,-0.0024608,-0.0041862,0.0063644,-0.0049367,0.0012466
Levant,0.0855728,0.1475635,-0.0538932,-0.0889668,-0.0129289,-0.0300094,-0.0028938,-0.0072099,0.0103702,0.0090846,0.0073562,-0.0065739,0.0143123,0.0006055,-0.0068675,0.0064122,-0.0006323,0.003066,0.0014458,-0.0006128,-0.0007579,0.004239,-0.0006677,0.0008533,0.0011779
Celto-Germanic,0.1306444,0.1319206,0.0644491,0.051744,0.0390476,0.0191988,0.0024347,0.0044322,0.003778,0.0002668,-0.0059667,0.0050381,-0.0107943,-0.0111781,0.0206914,0.0067551,-0.0062536,0.0016525,0.0037594,0.0040004,0.0047037,0.0027444,0.0001576,0.0097476,-0.0003546
SSA,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0.0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561,0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Y los resultados de las muestras con un modelo sin usar vascos expresamente creado para ellas:
https://i.postimg.cc/dtBGLTpX/portug...lesancient.png
Code:Sardinian,0.1185885,0.1649084,0.0251364,-0.0485534,0.0558422,-0.0222034,-0.0032211,-0.0016461,0.0374606,0.0691574,0.0005608,0.0129026,-0.0230266,-0.0104648,-0.0118221,-0.0066295,0.0063593,-0.0003125,0.0017866,-0.0113138,-0.0021778,0.0000396,-0.0069282,-0.0163074,0.0012614
Moroccan,-0.0742576,0.1315181,-0.0074521,-0.0664334,0.021187,-0.0299709,-0.0253678,0.0089509,0.0534009,0.0273663,0.0065344,-0.0066258,0.0207706,-0.0149427,0.0150726,-0.0115203,-0.0012799,-0.0179059,-0.0381608,0.0076991,-0.0125307,-0.0330745,0.021301,-0.0036183,0.0052301
Balto-Slavic,0.1320584,0.1185498,0.078892,0.072796,0.0390876,0.0267014,0.0106904,0.0134714,-0.0013462,-0.027468,-0.0017786,-0.0107279,0.0191006,0.0246848,-0.01021,-0.0003124,0.0016171,-0.0008179,0.0022352,0.0017432,-0.0024608,-0.0041862,0.0063644,-0.0049367,0.0012466
Levant,0.0855728,0.1475635,-0.0538932,-0.0889668,-0.0129289,-0.0300094,-0.0028938,-0.0072099,0.0103702,0.0090846,0.0073562,-0.0065739,0.0143123,0.0006055,-0.0068675,0.0064122,-0.0006323,0.003066,0.0014458,-0.0006128,-0.0007579,0.004239,-0.0006677,0.0008533,0.0011779
Celto-Germanic,0.1306444,0.1319206,0.0644491,0.051744,0.0390476,0.0191988,0.0024347,0.0044322,0.003778,0.0002668,-0.0059667,0.0050381,-0.0107943,-0.0111781,0.0206914,0.0067551,-0.0062536,0.0016525,0.0037594,0.0040004,0.0047037,0.0027444,0.0001576,0.0097476,-0.0003546
SSA,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0.0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561,0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
It depends on what consequences one draws from those links. Megalithism was mostly carried out by neolithic farmers* rather than Bronze age peoples with steppe ancestry, so these early links might not have translated into anything game changing from a population-wide perspective. In Britain the farmers were virtually wiped out, and with Bell Beaker migrations the megalithic phenomena died out around here. This isn't to say that were were no contacts, or that no one ever moved here, but I simply do not believe that translated into a clear increase in steppe ancestry in W Iberia. I used to consider that hypothesis in the past (Atlantic Bronze Age migration from Britain/NW France into Iberia), but the more pre-historic samples we have, the less I believe it had a genetic impact. If new significant samples show different info, I'll review its consequences and update my beliefs accordingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by gixajo
In the end I follow the mantra "the past explains the present, it's not the present that explains the past".
As for north Africa I'm just not familiar with the connections besides the odd ivory item, or the occasional migrant. I do also find it (pleasantly) surprising to see it so widespread in Lisbon by the late Roman period, maybe the migration/forced movement had to do with mining operations in Hispania? I really want to see Late Roman samples from Braga or Lugo since, in theory, that's where the core of Galicia-Portugal was in the early Reconquista. Soil acidity might make that a mirage for now.
* And speaking of neolithic farmers, here's an interesting paper on the subject, and why we benefit so much from Iberia_N references instead of LBK like most Europeans do. As usual EEF stuff gets ignored because most people in these forums have a hard on for steppe and indo-europeans.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60982222007059
De qué se compone EEF?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruderico
I see it , your paper speaks about 2 routes of entry of Neolithic in Europe, with 3 fonal different clusters among which we are included in the same cluster with Sardinians and Frenchs(and...Sweden?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruderico
https://i.imgur.com/nxfaZow.png
When I used LBK is not because I like model Iberians with them, was just because I emulated a model for all Europeans that use LBK as Neolithic source instead of Barcin_N. That model was included in an academic paper too, probably just as simplification that econmpassed European Neolithic in one reference more close to modern Europeans than typical Barcin_N.Quote:
Results from each show a convergence on the existence of three clusters: first, the Western Mediterranean, including Iberian, French, and Sardinian individuals; second, the Eastern Mediterranean, featuring Greek, Balkan, and Anatolian individuals as well as Central Europeans; and third, the British and Irish archipelago. These are visible as blocks in the IBD heatmap of Figure 3C and form three apices of variation in the PCA (Figure 4). They also form separate primary branches in a fineSTRUCTURE tree (Figure 5).65 Intermediate samples are also intermediate in geography. For example, in the PCA plot, which visibly mirrors geography (Figure 4), Northern French samples are placed close to Iberians but also stretch toward the British and Irish cluster. Also, the mid-Mediterranean samples from Sardinia, Malta, Sicily and Italy fall between the western and eastern poles.
https://i.imgur.com/P3T3zSj.jpg
The megalithic phenomenon begins at the end of the Neolithic and continues with variations of use and forms until the Bronze Age passing through the Chalcolithic, that's right.
So it is not entirely wrong to associate BA with megalithism, although at that time the new constructions are different, many older structures were reused as burial places, and it is very common, even more common in some areas, to find burials of individuals from the Bronze Age in supposedly Chalcolithic or late Neolithic dolmens.
If I refer specifically to the Bronze Age, was because I assume that at that time longer journeys would be made more often in search of metals, which would make the movement and settlement of people in distant places more possible than in Neolithic or Chalcolitic.
But linking Bronze Age (Atlantic Bronze Age specifically) and Megalithism probably is wrong, although the geographical extension of both coincided mainly , specially because in this case I wanted to include NW Africa in both, but there I do recognize that I went too far in my proposal.:picard1:
Probably all this is well explained just with Phoenicians, Carthago and Romans, no needing go further back in time.
Edit:I included more things after the first text, sorry.
Significant north african blood in western iberia before the moorish/islamic ocupation , its clear these new samples help explain why areas with the least morisco populations have relativly high north african DNA,even If we dont know exactly why that came to be (bringing North africans for mining activity can be it) for sure big part of this influx ocurred in the Roman períod.Now when some keep holding into the simpleton idea North african DNA spreaded mainly with the moorish ocupation they can be easily proven incorrect.
We have said several times that those g25 samples are just proxies with simulated coordinates based in K13, but yes, basing us in them, some of them show similar NA (and others) than some modern western Iberians, and also some of those samples also quite more than modern Western Iberians. One of them is practically 50/50 NA/Iberian, that is too much to consider that individual actually "Iberian" but could show that that component was in the peninsula in good amounts before the Muslim invasion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tongio
What is notable is that in this group, the exception would be an individual without non-European components when in other Iberian samples from difefrent areas was the opposite.
Yes, but these are exclusively ancient samples, not modern individuals. That said you can still see this difference in G25, Iberians strongly prefer Western EEFs (especially those from Iberia) than other Europeans do. My ancient models always benefit a lot from using Iberian EEF over Barcin or LBK.Quote:
Originally Posted by gixajo
https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/imag...007059-gr3.jpg
Edit: You can try splitting these into two different groups, odds are most of us here will massively prefer Iberia_EEF over LBK.
Code:LBK:HUN_LBK_MN,0.123498,0.1807643,0.0126335,-0.0942352,0.0580878,-0.0403695,-0.0029375,-0.003,0.0397798,0.084603,0.008769,0.0125138,-0.02111,0.0004818,-0.042107,-0.0149492,0.01105,-0.0005382,0.012821,-0.0153825,-0.013757,0.0095827,-0.0092128,-0.0026512,-0.002934
LBK:DEU_LBK_HBS,0.1244086,0.182592,0.0124072,-0.0896648,0.0641812,-0.0429073,-0.0036896,-0.0041883,0.0414365,0.0872364,0.0092805,0.0126936,-0.023927,0.0001514,-0.038877,-0.0078295,0.0197988,0.00515,0.0125886,-0.0122746,-0.0098015,0.0061826,-0.0089292,-0.0052416,-0.0037063
LBK:DEU_LBK_KD,0.127482,0.183811,0.023381,-0.086564,0.079707,-0.043228,-0.010575,0.021691,0.052767,0.091118,0.011205,0.018583,-0.015461,-0.006881,-0.044109,-0.020419,0.002217,0.015836,0.015587,-0.021635,-0.004243,0.022999,-0.025882,0.010363,-0.002994
LBK:DEU_LBK_SCH,0.1142784,0.1787332,0.0100314,-0.0908276,0.0607496,-0.0401042,0.000329,-0.0073844,0.0417638,0.0824072,0.009776,0.0103108,-0.0229828,0.0046242,-0.0385172,-0.0069476,0.018019,0.00451,0.0144304,-0.0110304,-0.0054652,0.0019288,-0.0053244,-0.0122186,-0.0034966
LBK:DEU_LBK_SMH,0.1203421,0.1797025,0.015942,-0.0828642,0.0596754,-0.0407307,-0.0022112,-0.0044264,0.0449487,0.0840605,0.0068277,0.011417,-0.0237046,0.0007444,-0.03699,-0.0066837,0.0194035,0.0016067,0.0141925,-0.0104368,-0.0090976,0.0036702,-0.0058822,-0.0043379,-0.0037395
LBK:DEU_LBK_UW,0.129758,0.178733,0.01961,-0.081719,0.068013,-0.042949,-0.00282,-0.006692,0.037837,0.082553,0.002923,0.019033,-0.022002,0.006193,-0.042616,-0.006762,0.026859,0.006841,0.015209,-0.008254,-0.015972,0.016075,0.000493,-0.005904,-0.007784
LBK:AUT_LBK_N,0.1220754,0.1839379,0.015792,-0.0885424,0.0642426,-0.0428098,-0.0023206,-0.0037789,0.0449952,0.0860381,0.0079368,0.0105094,-0.0204036,0.0025289,-0.0382054,-0.0129606,0.0148475,0.0011245,0.0146436,-0.0096453,-0.006738,0.0098304,-0.0058542,-0.0064919,-0.0058527
Iberia_EEF:Iberia_Southwest_EN,0.129758,0.165531,0.043369,-0.062662,0.080015,-0.031515,-0.012456,0.007846,0.069129,0.094763,0.003735,0.018733,-0.031665,-0.006055,-0.016558,-0.013789,-0.004042,0.010262,0.007039,-0.009755,0.001373,0.001237,-0.016638,-0.015183,0.002874
Iberia_EEF:Iberia_Southwest_MLN,0.1225493,0.1648543,0.0487743,-0.041021,0.085452,-0.0256577,-0.004935,-0.0016923,0.065993,0.093001,0.002057,0.0125387,-0.0256193,-0.0159183,-0.0060623,0.0037567,0.012517,0.0048143,0.000545,-0.003585,0.016596,0.0056057,-0.0175427,-0.0430987,0.000359
Iberia_EEF:Iberia_Southeast_MLN,0.1261811,0.1677073,0.0457934,-0.042959,0.0838399,-0.0274906,-0.0071173,-0.0006594,0.0686909,0.0943201,0.0008583,0.0181337,-0.0329389,-0.0142144,-0.0076001,-0.0033906,0.0013783,0.002968,0.0018857,-0.0046451,0.0077719,0.0038863,-0.0161279,-0.037768,0.0005473
Iberia_EEF:Iberia_North_MLN,0.1300429,0.1642619,0.069296,-0.0196222,0.0942868,-0.0192784,-0.0060512,0.0041826,0.0651152,0.0902069,-0.0032476,0.0134692,-0.0308842,-0.0175298,-0.0036982,0.0054198,0.008263,0.0004276,0.0001414,-0.0005314,0.0160184,0.0039721,-0.0140041,-0.0431538,0.0040265
Iberia_EEF:Iberia_Northeast_MLN,0.1258561,0.1704637,0.0529047,-0.039406,0.0901707,-0.0212354,-0.0049016,0.0039559,0.0634316,0.0944244,-0.0020646,0.0167853,-0.0307091,-0.0175763,-0.005138,0.0010987,0.0051967,0.0032034,-0.0005209,-0.004127,0.0115331,0.0051229,-0.0170083,-0.0366319,0.0007699
Iberia_EEF:Iberia_MN,0.1212218,0.1627387,0.0523252,-0.033592,0.0853235,-0.0214745,-0.0098702,-0.0010385,0.0643228,0.0923028,-0.003004,0.0138628,-0.032854,-0.0157232,-0.0081772,-0.0003315,0.0109522,0.004244,-0.001257,-0.00544,0.0181868,0.0046368,-0.0155598,-0.0405782,0.0024248
Iberia_EEF:Iberia_N,0.1239407,0.1755737,0.0341921,-0.0626261,0.0768007,-0.0339317,-0.004439,-0.0011793,0.0618117,0.0996021,0.0021292,0.015586,-0.0343077,-0.0108723,-0.0189858,-0.0058929,0.0074029,0.001844,0.0048463,-0.0070036,0.002468,0.0035996,-0.008148,-0.0235909,9.3e-05
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,0.1255849,0.089028,0.0426986,0.1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32e-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537
WHG,0.1246365,0.116278,0.184789,0.189279,0.1546445,0.0464355,0.0131605,0.0372675,0.0890705,0.017768,-0.0153455,-0.015811,0.0159065,-0.0030275,0.053338,0.0582065,0.00502,0.016343,-0.0093015,0.055589,0.0944585,0.0111905,-0.049607,-0.160866,0.0170045
MAR_EN,-0.1735805,0.0919055,-0.0258325,-0.083657,0.0283125,-0.0596825,-0.079316,0.021461,0.1500185,0.0043735,0.0222475,-0.0264515,0.075148,-0.0461725,0.069353,-0.03381,0.0171455,-0.05549,-0.1487635,0.0340785,-0.038245,-0.118212,0.0826995,-0.009941,0.021615
Levant_Natufian,0.020488,0.1431895,-0.0377125,-0.1387295,0.030775,-0.079484,-0.025616,-0.0175375,0.114329,0.002005,0.0332085,-0.0222555,0.076486,0.002133,0.0153365,0.009016,-0.0154505,-0.001014,-0.02206,0.040832,0.001497,0.0001235,-0.003636,-0.0044585,0.006287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruderico
Yes i see i made a mistake, i may have been misguided by the study's name. Either way these don't look like roman soldiers and i don't know which sorts of mixes would turn a basque into those samples. I would still guess they shouldn't diverge that much from the original source. If everyone everywhere was basque before the romans, i would be curious to know what was the process that changed people from basques to what we are now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf
@Ajeje Brazorf, thanks for extracting information on these samples btw.
Where would you guess the colonists to be from? I don't think Y-DNA in Portugal reflects any sort of those movements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruderico
A mi se me ocurren solo dos. Una que las muestras sean de sitios muy específicos y poco representativos, y la otra es que en ese periodo se estuviese experimentando un cambio demográfico razonablemente grande a causa de una gran inmigración.Quote:
Originally Posted by gixajo
Si estas muestras son representativas, los "outliers" serian bastante comunes (aunque como bien dices, hay que separarlas por épocas)
It does though, yDNA used to be overwhelmingly R1b in the past, today it's at ~55% and part of those should have their origins abroad (although some non-R1b might be local as well), I think this really does suggest that there was a massive turnover in Iberia starting with Roman occupation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damião de Góis
I have no idea why, but as I said in AG my suspicion lies with the abundance of mines in Iberia, maybe the Romans needed a lot of manpower to operate them and resorted to people (and slaves) from surrounding areas such as Mauritania and Gaul, in addition to Imperial Romans who colonised the territory. The famous Seventh Legion, which spent centuries in northwestern Iberia, also had Gallic auxiliaries, maybe some of them ended up settling in Hispania after they were released from service. Just speculation, they may be totally irrelevant.
https://i.postimg.cc/yNj0vk6c/Mining-Roman-Empire.jpg
I still find it hard to believe the Germanic period isn't necessary to explain some of these changes though, in the end with the exception of two samples (R10487 and R10507) all of these seem very Mediterranean. That said we haven't seen samples from Roman Braga, which should theoretically more important for Portuguese (and Galician) ethnogenesis, maybe one day we'll have them and this Mediterranean profile will end up being less common, with the majority of samples closer to us. Or maybe not, who knows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruderico
Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 2.9547% / 0.02954739
37.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
30.8 Iberia_EEF
25.8 LBK
6.2 MAR_EN
Yeah I was expecting something like that from you because of all the steppe you have, I barely score LBKQuote:
Originally Posted by Damião de Góis
Target: Ruderico_scaled
Distance: 3.4848% / 0.03484773
52.6 Iberia_EEF
32.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
8.6 LBK
6.6 MAR_EN
Target: MrsRuderico_scaled
Distance: 2.1762% / 0.02176182
49.2 Iberia_EEF
32.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
9.6 LBK
6.8 MAR_EN
1.6 Levant_Natufian
I believe you, don´t worry, I was just explainning why I did what I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruderico
Anyway,even getting better distances with Iberia_EEF, WHG practically dissappears and some strange Natufian apperas in my results.
With Iberia_EEF
With LBKsQuote:
Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.2414% / 0.02241432
61.4 Iberia_EEF
34.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.6 Levant_Natufian
0.8 MAR_EN
Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.3139% / 0.02313912
63.0 Iberia_EEF
32.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.4 MAR_EN
1.2 Levant_Natufian
Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 2.7161% / 0.02716124
61.2 Iberia_EEF
34.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
2.8 WHG
1.4 MAR_EN
With both at the same time, as you said, algortim prefers Iberia_EEf as solution:Quote:
Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.0693% / 0.03069291
55.4 LBK
31.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
10.4 WHG
3.0 MAR_EN
Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.7760% / 0.02776006
58.8 LBK
29.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.2 WHG
4.8 MAR_EN
Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 3.5820% / 0.03582031
52.6 LBK
32.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
11.8 WHG
3.0 MAR_EN
And again, when I post that model using LBK, the model was for every European, not just for Iberians, so probably what I did was better option because our Iberian_EEF could have created "interferences" reading the Neolithic+WHG of Northern Europeans as Iberia_EEF.Quote:
Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.2491% / 0.02249126
53.0 Iberia_EEF
34.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
10.4 LBK
2.2 MAR_EN
0.4 WHG
Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.1401% / 0.02140143
40.2 Iberia_EEF
31.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
24.0 LBK
4.4 MAR_EN
Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 2.6947% / 0.02694653
53.4 Iberia_EEF
34.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.0 LBK
3.6 WHG
1.6 MAR_EN
For example:
Quote:
Target: Norwegian
Distance: 3.4021% / 0.03402114
52.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
24.8 Iberia_EEF
12.8 LBK
9.8 WHG
Target: German
Distance: 2.8730% / 0.02873033
49.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
30.0 LBK
12.4 Iberia_EEF
8.6 WHG
Target: English
Distance: 3.2677% / 0.03267709
50.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
29.8 Iberia_EEF
12.6 LBK
7.4 WHG
Yeah it's all as expected, particularly your mum benefiting even more from the Iberian EEF references.
It's interesting that using Iberian EEFs is making steppe ancestry higher than using LBK, I have no idea why the algorithm does this, nor if it's any more valid.
Target: Viriato_scaled
Distance: 2.7569% / 0.02756924
46.0 Iberia_EEF
34.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
12.6 LBK
6.0 MAR_EN
1.2 WHG
Target: Viriato_Wife_scaled
Distance: 2.5882% / 0.02588185
46.2 Iberia_EEF
34.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
11.8 LBK
6.2 MAR_EN
1.4 Levant_Natufian
Target: Viriato_Father_scaled
Distance: 1.5579% / 0.01557927
38.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
30.2 LBK
25.4 Iberia_EEF
6.2 MAR_EN
0.2 WHG
Maybe using unscaled coordinates with some penalization could give more stable or accurate results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruderico
Anyway, all those papers don´t use G25 to show their samples genetic admixtures (as far as I know), so it´s difficult to get exactly all those results with our models.