Arpad dynasty DNA (kings of Hungary & Croatia)

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Z280 can't be Turkic in any case. Same as M458.

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There is no aDNA for M458, so what it can or can't be, remains to be seen with sufficient aDNA evidence. Also, some basal M458 pops up in Caucasians, specifically Circassians like Adyghe and Shapsug, Karachay & Nogai. As I understand the major Russian invasion of their region wasn't until the 1800s. Karachay and Nogai are also heavily tribal and do not mix. Any number of possibilities exist at this point with no aDNA.

Central Europe was dominated by these steppe tribes. They also fucked like rabbits. I doubt any clade is exlusively anything until there is aDNA to show. If M458 pops up in Central Europe predating the migration event.

My personal opinion is that M458 is probably just Central Corded Ware and spread from around Poland/East Germany. I just find it very odd that we are supposed to believe M458 including its soon to develop clades were somehow locked behind some prison and randomly started only spreading out in the middle ages.

It occupied many areas in East Europe that could have easily been absorbed by any number of tribes occupying these geographical positions.

Some have said there is alot of R1a diversity around Romania, postulating it as a possible original point. But, I haven't seen any papers claiming such.

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Originally Posted by Rethel von Rethelsky

And what it has to do with the topic?

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Means his dna is of no use to find out more about conquering Hungarians genetics.

I wish I was Mongol... it's so cool.

Being Serbian, Romanian is meh...

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Originally Posted by Dibran

Some have said there is alot of R1a diversity around Romania, postulating it as a possible original point. But, I haven't seen any papers claiming such.

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Interesting thing is that Eupedia mentions that some of highest R1a diversity overall is in south-eastern Europe, which I think sound suprising to many people.

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Originally Posted by Coinneach

Because of fact that Hungarians (whatever they were called back then) took Christianity and were baptized they rescued original R1a language of Ugro-Permic folk, conquerors (Rome Christianity) impose rules, religion and language. White Croats and Serbs went south (or already were there) imposed their language to other Sarmatians (like R1a M458 people)

easy as that

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You think M458 is Sarmatian? Some say its Central Corded Ware and was already in central europe prior to Sarmatians(this is my view). There doesnt seem to be any aDNA for M458. I do notice some basal M458 is popping up in Adyghe, Karachay, and Nogai(who are turkic unless I am mistaken).

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Originally Posted by Dibran

There is no aDNA for M458, so what it can or can't be, remains to be seen with sufficient aDNA evidence. Also, some basal M458 pops up in Caucasians, specifically Circassians like Adyghe and Shapsug, Karachay & Nogai. As I understand the major Russian invasion of their region wasn't until the 1800s. Karachay and Nogai are also heavily tribal and do not mix. Any number of possibilities exist at this point with no aDNA.

Central Europe was dominated by these steppe tribes. They also fucked like rabbits. I doubt any clade is exlusively anything until there is aDNA to show. If M458 pops up in Central Europe predating the migration event.

My personal opinion is that M458 is probably just Central Corded Ware and spread from around Poland/East Germany. I just find it very odd that we are supposed to believe M458 including its soon to develop clades were somehow locked behind some prison and randomly started only spreading out in the middle ages.

It occupied many areas in East Europe that could have easily been absorbed by any number of tribes occupying these geographical positions.

Some have said there is alot of R1a diversity around Romania, postulating it as a possible original point. But, I haven't seen any papers claiming such.

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On Eupedia, they described them (M458) as proto-Slavs.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...html#subclades

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Originally Posted by Dibran

You think M458 is Sarmatian? Some say its Central Corded Ware and was already in central europe prior to Sarmatians(this is my view). There doesnt seem to be any aDNA for M458. I do notice some basal M458 is popping up in Adyghe, Karachay, and Nogai(who are turkic unless I am mistaken).

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There is no proof about Sarmatian M458, just hypothesis.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Interesting thing is that Eupedia mentions that some of highest R1a diversity overall is in south-eastern Europe, which I think sound suprising to many people.

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Very interesting. Is this the case overall? or do other areas have more R1a diversity? Isn't the rule of thumb that regions of the most diversity are usually starting points? Maybe it spread with Sarmatians or Dacians around the Morava that were part of the ethnogenesis of the Slavs?

Without any aDNA though, I suppose its just a guessing game.

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

There is no proof about Sarmatian M458, just hypothesis.

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There is literally no aDNA for M458 to say what is or isn't hypothesis. And when you have basal M458 popping up in Adyghe Karachay and Nogai, I think that should not be ignored either. So much of the claims about the line is based purely on speculation due to modern distribution. If diversification of a line is anything to go by, Romania seems to have some high R1a diversification. Suggesting around the Morava as a point of spread. The steppe tribes were extremely fruitful and fucked like rabbits. I highly doubt they barely left a mark paternally. Now we have aDNA for Z280, so we can make some assumptions. Until aDNA is available for M458, then all talk is just speculation(some educated some not).

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Problem is that Z280 is by far most common type of R1a is all southern slavic countries (except Bulgaria), and we don't have any known Turkic connections.

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I do notice too alot of R1a in South Slavs is mostly Z280. M458 seems more East Balkan, but with regards to the West Balkans its higher in Croats no?